Recycling attempt?

[scgator]

Thanks guys, for the replies on my other thread. Just wanted to post again as yesterday I think was a recycling attempt. I haven't spoken to my ex in over a week and haven't seen her in 3 weeks. I get a text asking about my daughter - of course I struggled whether to reply or not and eventually did. I read another post where someone asked the OP if they were putting hope over history - that's a great way to put things for me. The hope that this could possibly be normal keeps popping in my head despite all my logical arguments against it.

Anyway, the texts yesterday went from her taking me wrong so throwing a shot, which I called her out on and she ignored, to her missing me and that she loves me. She's trying to friendzone me but also talks about sex. There's the hope part of me (and my libido) that is blind and wanting this to be real and then there's the logical part that is reading her texts and thinking, ok, she's had 3 weeks that I think she's spent with someone else and now she's alone so you're the easy mark. She denies being with someone but had posted about a romantic night on facebook and it sure wasn't with me. She first said it was with her gay friend and yesterday said that was not for me. She apologized "if" she ever hurt me, she said she apologized for her. I said she did hurt me, but that was glossed over and there was no follow up from her. It really felt like 2 different conversations, something that's been plaguing our communication for awhile - we're on 2 different pages.

Is my gut right? Is this just a recycling attempt? I tell myself, she's lonely and bored and making sure you're still available and you fell for it. I told her I missed her and only wanted happiness for us and that I would find happiness with myself. I'm on the journey to discover "why" for myself. Her last text ended with x's and o's and she told me she loves me. It's like she deletes anything negative that she did or said from her world. Yesterday she said I ended it with her - I reminded her that the night we were supposed to go out to dinner she called and told me I was sending her "signs" that I didn't love her and to not say I love her because I don't mean it. I let things go after that conversation. Then she had her romantic night - which I told her was a BIG sign to me but she insists I'm mistaken about that. That's when I said, ok, good luck and goodbye. As we all know, that goodbye doesn't last that long. It makes me so sad - for her and for myself. I literally feel like asking her, hey do you ever scroll up the conversation and read some of what you said? Why are you telling the "toxic pond scum", you know the "loser" that "you'll never think of again", that you miss him and love him?

So I'm trying to stay strong and keep my distance. I didn't encourage the recycling attempt but didn't nip it in the bud either - guess that's some passive aggression coming in or just my ambivalence. Am I undecided? I guess so - part of me knows what's best and that part is keeping its distance. It's the lonely/hopeful part that keeps that door cracked and I guess until I close it she will continue to try to get in when there's no one else around to fulfill her needs when she's bored.

Bottom line, after all the lies and manipulation, how would there ever be trust? I ask myself that constantly, could I ever really trust her now? After blatant lies meant to cover the truth or hurt me and keep me off balance or just make her "reality" real or all of the above? I guess that's what I have to answer for myself. What has me so sad is that I cling to the hope. I hear mutual friends say she's never been like this - and I think, hmmm, maybe I'm reading the signs wrong and contributing to this dysfunction more than I should, then the what if's start piling up. And then I think of her step-father telling me he should have warned me before moving in that she would change her mind, that swings the pendulum the other way. It's very confusing and that makes dealing with it all the harder. I argue with myself - I ask am I making her out to be this crazy person? I have to remove BPD from my equation and look at her behavior and just ask myself, would life be fulfilling with this person on every level? That answer, unfortunately is no, especially since she seems to shirk all responsibility for any problems and seems to be in denial about needing help. But it COULD be on SO MANY levels if she could just wake up and see that she needs some help. I know she needs to do this for herself first and foremost. I've told her that as well.

She has started to tell me that she will go into therapy, prolonging the hope maybe?  But from what I hear, that's not a first. She just never follows through. I think I'm believing her expressions of love and thinking she really means it, then I fight with myself and say hey, people don't treat people they love like this. Not in my world anyway. So I'm dealing with my own internal push/pull at the moment. Posting here is better than texting her but there's a part of me that misses her - or that's the addiction to the relationship talking and my hope that this could ever be a normal, reciprocal loving relationship.

Sorry for being all over the place, that's just how my mind operates these days. Guess that's some fallout from 5 months of gaslighting, false accusations, circular arguments, belittling - pushing alllll the buttons that she's learned will hurt me.

I do want to say this site is awesome. It's great to have someplace to share this experience with others who actually understand. Talking to close friends is both embarrassing and difficult because they don't "get" the draw or the bond that we form in a relationship like this. Heck, I barely understand it myself, though reading on trauma bonding has helped me understand that this is also a biological response. Anyway, thank you all for being here.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey scgator, What makes you think your Ex has BPD?  Sorry if I missed an earlier post.

LuckyJim

[scgator]

Hey scgator, What makes you think your Ex has BPD?  Sorry if I missed an earlier post.

LuckyJim

Hi LuckyJim,

I don't know if she has BPD or not, definitely has the traits. She met my therapist who said yes, she does have it (to me, not to her) and I have witnessed/experienced her exhibiting all 9 of the DSM IV criteria and not just occasionally. My story sounds just like everyone else's - I posted it in another thread. We met, whirlwind romance, early talk of love (by me) early talk of marriage (by her), moved in within 3 months. Then the wheels fell off - distrust, accusations of lying and cheating, belittling, anger, physical abuse, emotional abuse, threats to herself and me, kicked me out of our bedroom, then eventually accused me of cheating and threw me out of the house, called the next day and said we're a family and to return, I did, the very next day it was "maybe I should get my own place" the next day I was a narcissistic sociopath, the next day I was cheating and get out of her house. I moved out that week and then it was "I don't see why you moved, you are showing me signs that you never really loved me", plenty of circular arguments and no-win situations. I was in utter shock and started trying to research why this was happening. Google put me onto BPD and that's when the light bulb went on.

Since I left it was like we had 2 different conversations via text. Hers - accusations, blaming, put downs. Mine - I told you we were unhealthy for each other, I don't see how you can treat me the way you do and call it love, I'm the guy being punished for things I sure didn't do, I'm sorry it's come to this but goodbye and good luck. After I said my peace and goodbye, the texts kept coming and it was all bad (I'm sure from the abandonment) until the one yesterday.

I know there's a difference between her and BPD or whatever she may have. But that doesn't seem to help. I'm currently trying to resist this pull and understand that this was enmeshment and probably a trauma-bond, so it's like an addiction. There's a part of me that thinks, man oh man, if only she would try this could be so good. Then there's the other part that says she did try while you were living together and it was nothing but a rollercoaster ride from hell that left me with my two new buddies, depression and anxiety.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, scgator, sounds like a narrow escape, for which you should be grateful!  For many of us, it was a much longer ordeal (in my case, 16 years of marriage).  In my view, you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out, because when it comes to BPD, some things will never add up.  Keep the focus on what is right for you, is my suggestion.

LuckyJim

[JQ]

Hey LuckyJim, 

You're search for assistance has brought you here and here you will find no one will judge you ... .but listen, assist and support. From reading your post, you have dealt with your BPD ex for sometime and have experienced a lot of a BPD traits over the coarse of 16 years plus.  Your story & experience isn't much different then anyone else's in the group including  mine. It's as if they're all reading the same script ... .they're all behaving the same ... .they're all reacting the same.

You're aware of recycling ... .you know what to look for ... .yet there is that little bit of hope that things could be different this time. But we all know in our hearts and minds that they have a behavioral problem that is learned from childhood. We didn't cause it and we certainly can't control or cure it. As you pointed out, only a lifetime of therapy might give some sort of a facade of a "normal life' with no guarantee's.

My ex BPD gf and i were talking about the very subject you spoke about in regards to trust. She has been in and out of therapy for decades and is currently seeing bf2 and has for a year. but within that year ... .she saw me ... .actually both of us at the same time. I set a boundary that I wouldn't be a part of a triangulation relationship. Be with him if it's what you want ... .if he satisfies what you need and want in a relationship ... .or be with me but you can't be with both of us. She has pretty much respected this boundary and has stayed with him ... .she has worked hard at not sexting me, or calling me for phone sex ... .when bf2 isn't making things happen. She told me that she respects me and doesn't want to push that boundary. That she realizes that she has to break it off because it's not working out with him. But is afraid to become involved with me because she trying to understand why she can be in a committed relationship that has no real intimacy ... ."they don't have conversations, they don't talk or discuss real issues" it's strictly a companionship type relationship ... .someone to spend time with when she's alone ... .but she's made the comment to me ... .I'm still alone even though I'm in a relationship. which makes me want to believe that the therapy is helping and she's really trying to think things through on her behavior ... .but once bitten twice shy. Fool me once shame on you ... .Fool me twice shame on me.

Our situations are very similar ... .as much as I would like to be in a relationship with her, I know that i'm playing Russian Roulette with my heart, mind and soul. The difference this time is that I'm much more educated in BPD and setting boundaries and she knows that there are consequences for her actions and behavior. At least the father in law tried to explain to you her situation but maybe he wasn't educated in the world of BPD. AS far as her going to therapy ... .as I said my ex BPD gf has been going off and on to therapy for decades and I see progress but there is so far to go and from my understanding this is going to be lifetime of therapy.

then like you said are you willing to do this for the rest of your life? It's a learned behavior a form of defense from something that happened in her childhood to protect herself from abandonment. You can't cure this behavior ... .extra affairs are another trait of someone with BPD ... .its' another defense mechanism ... .there is evidence to show that they don't really do it on purpose to hurt you on purpose and some behavior is erased from them memory ... .perhaps another defense mechanism.

SO you made a brave choice to leave the situation you were in ... .you decided that you were not going to spend your life dealing day in and day out with this behavior ... .and no one judges you for this. I made the same choice 18 years ago with my first ex BPD gf ... .she was off the charts!  She was overhead saying to another female after we broke up if I can't have him, no one will. She had access to a 9mm ... .so I went total NC ... .had to change my phone number 4 times after privatizing it. I ended up with a CCW and now carry my own 9mm. I learned then that "Normal' will never be in their vocabulary ... .as much as we hope, pray, wish, and sacrifice for it to happen ... .life with a BPD is never EVER going to be normal.

I've had to search within myself why I am the way I am. Self reflecting ... .an incredible amount of therapy ... .in the end, I've learned that my mother was a BPD, my sister is now one, and that i was a codependent ... .the good thing is for me is that I can learn to say no a lot easier then they can change they're behavior. i can choose to live a healthier life ... .one without the roller coaster of drama like yourself ... .

WE come to this site to learn, vent, get some guidance, advice ... .where we know others have suffered the same thing we have ... .some of us have had years of it ... .others are quickly learning about BPD and the lifetime of issues that it will bring to their life if they choose to live with someone with this mental disorder ... .this behavior disorder.

come vent, come be with like minded people ... .but remember to take care of yourself ... .revisit the therapist as needed ... .and stay safe

JQ

[scgator]

Hello again, scgator, sounds like a narrow escape, for which you should be grateful!  For many of us, it was a much longer ordeal (in my case, 16 years of marriage).  In my view, you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out, because when it comes to BPD, some things will never add up.  Keep the focus on what is right for you, is my suggestion.

LuckyJim

Good idea and that's what I'm trying. The recycle attempt fizzled because I wasn't jumping for joy that she wanted to come back (that's what I think anyway.) I posted elsewhere that she found out all the accusations she made about me cheating with an old friend of hers were false. She gave a minor apology with a "but" - "but I know you're a man who doesn't and never loved me. Now I have closure and will delete you from my life." - Utter lack of responsibility for anything she ever did or said. I don't care if she's feeling shameful and can't face that. That's not my problem. Too bad she can't take a little time to look and see what she's done to the people around her. This has dropped me right in the anger phase of grieving. I'm journaling all the things I'd like to say to her and it's helping. Not like there's any point sending it all to her, in her reality I'm a monster who ruined her life and she's the saintly victim who never did anything wrong. Totally bizarre life experience to say the least.

[Lucky Jim]

I'm journaling all the things I'd like to say to her and it's helping. Not like there's any point sending it all to her, in her reality I'm a monster who ruined her life and she's the saintly victim who never did anything wrong. Totally bizarre life experience to say the least.

Hey scgator, Sounds like you're doing the right things.  Yes, the point is that it's a life experience which can lead to growth.  It's a hard lesson, no doubt, but sometimes we need a kick in the pants to get the point.  Hang in there,

LuckyJim