On and Off

[redbank1915]

I have been in an on and off relationship for 2 and a half years. Initially we started as friends who met through a dating site on line and I  pursued her to form a relationship. At the time she said she was more interested in someone else then later approached me for a relationship and so we started. We did well for about three months but broke up because she said there was a lack  of chemistry. I did not see that coming. Shortly thereafter she was in a relationship with someone else for three months that did not work out. She said it was just a go slow relationship, although they did travel together and we got back together for about three months again. The next split up happened when she arranged for us to meet a "friend" of hers. I was not even aware we were meeting him until he showed up. When he did she grabbed his head pulled it towards her and gave him a long and loud kiss. He completely ignored me and spent time talking to her. She commented several times on how good looking he was.He gave her a book manuscript to read. Next we attended the opening of a building that he worked on and she repeated the same behaviour and in front of his common law wife. I was infuriated by what I saw as her inappropriate behaviour and we broke up. Of course I then felt abandoned and tried to get her back But she entered into another relationship with a physician she met online and then with an old on and off boyfriend-all in three months. We stayed in touch and eventuality she came back to me. I had been seeing someone else and broke off with that person.This time we found a nice apartment and moved in together. I bought us new furniture. Unfortunately her mother became very ill and she decided to again break up and move back in with her mother in another town and take care of her. she did not want to continue our relationship and pretty much just dumped me.

I too have some major health issues and was extremely distraught. Initially we stayed in email contact but she answers my mail less and less and even recently said that with her mom's issues could not muster the energy to even talk on the phone. I am quite distraught over all this and looking for inout and suggestions.

[Lou12]

Hi redbank

I hope you don't think I'm being harsh because I sincerely come from a place of heart felt sympathy for how your feeling... but...

Why would you expect her to have respect for you when you are displaying that you don't have respect for yourself?

What are your deal breakers?

I don't say this to criticise, I would just like you to think about what you are willing to tolerate from ppl before you walk away? What would it take?

BPD or not, if my ex kissed another girl In front of me the way you describe then that man would have years of begging forgiveness before I would even consider him again. You continued to fight for her, which tells her that your willing to tolerate this behaviour. You can tell her until your blue in the face that your not happy with her behaviour but sticking around means that you are willing to tolerate it to keep her x

[redbank1915]

good question... .wish i had a good answer... the only one i can come up with is that i walk away when it feels right and i have done that ... sometimes but not always through triangulation ... i must admit i was shocked and have been by her other abrupt changes... .and of course these got turned into my problems... the last one cost me financially and more than i should have tolerated

[redbank1915]

general question why would anyone stay in a relationship with a BPD-do they change and become better partners

[nzjay]

I sometimes wonder if people who stay with high-level BPD partners are emotional masochists.

It sounds like she has spent the entirety of your on-again-off-again relationship pretty much trampling you into the ground, discarding you when she feels flighty, and reeling you back in when she's bored and needs a fall-back.

No offence intended here, but she is Clearly devoid of any empathy or love for you, and you are genuinely wasting your time remaining open to her abuse.

She sounds poison. Cut her off and move on, regardless of how attractive or amazing she may seem when she's in "you" mode.

[Lou12]

Hey Redbank,

Good question: 'Why does anyone stay in a relationship with a BPD?'

For me I can answer this by saying that 1) I loved him, 2) It gave me a second opportunity to prove to myself I was loveable (first being my father) and 3) because I'm codependent, amongst a few other things. I recognise that most of our bond was based on my own core wounds being dealt with.

However regardless of what issues I was dealing with their was certain things that he knew were no go areas for me... my deal breakers. Never once did he break these or should I say... never once was I aware he broke them. He managed to control aspects of his BPD based on the fact that he would lose me if he did. These are my boundaries. Their was aspects of his BPD behaviour I was willing to accept that I'm sure a more healthier person would not so being with a BPD then yes their are definitely sacrifices you have to make.

It sounds as though you need to work on your own boundaries to tell her what is acceptable behaviour. Personally I'd get rid of her after what she did as I deem her behaviour above and beyond what id be willing to tolerate from anyone x

[OnceConfused]

What kind of in/outs and suggestions do you want or need here? .

Based on what you just wrote in 1 post, I can see the followings:

1. Why do you keep coming back even after all those red flags? Those were BIG RED FLAGS. I emphasize YOU the one who can make the decision.

a. Initially, she was more interested in someone else - what does this means to you? You are only a backup to fill the void.

b. THen there was a lack of chemistry. OK, I understand that and the break up.

c. After 3 months with someone else to which that relationship was slow going, then she comes back. OK, now did you see that you are just the backup plan again.

d. You again got angry and broke up when she kissed the other man in front of his wife. OK, I accepted that.

e. she went into another r.s. for awhile and then came back to you. You both decided to move in together. OK,

f. her mother became ill and she moved back home to help mom. Now she does not want to talk to you, or at least being COLD.

To me, you have been on a secondary source of backup for her. It is not that she has used you, but it is that you have set NO BOUNDARY for yourself and consequently, you let her use you.

Do you see that she is not into you at all. To me she has not exhibited any strong emotional connection with you.

I don't care at this point, she is BPD or not. Her behaviors so far as you described, are not from someone who really wants to be with you. I would let go of her and move on.

Another point, the problem is also not with her but also with you. You essentially have told her, "go ahead and do whatever you want and whenever you come back, I will take you because I want and need you.".

You cannot change how she behaves or feels toward you or any other men, but you can certainly change how you feel or behave toward her.

In short, thank her and get out fast.

[redbank1915]

well there sure is lots of get tough and get out advice... however neither of us is a kid we are both in our sixties, I have spent three years on and off here and we have had some great times, I know all her children her grandchildren her siblings well and her mother, we all spent a lot of time together so I don't think it was pure manipulation in the sense of stop gap ... .I would have thought that would have involved keeping me distant from her family... before her mother got ill we used to communicate well and regularly... so maybe I have low self esteem, or whatever but there was a closeness there that seemed to me at least unique... .even when we were not on we spent a lot of time together  ... when we last parted she was very sorrowful weeping etc I actually was getting close to asking her to marry me... now maybe in the tradition of these boards its nice to tell someone to buck up but if so I don't get why these "tough love" strong people are even on a board for us folks who are so weak...

her father was an alcoholic and there were suggestions from her ex husbands in her past that she had been abused-she denied these, she also had remove all her lower body and had some cosmetic surgery( all forms of self mutiliation) and had when younger engaged in swinging with both her husbands...

[Lou12]

Agreed Redbank!

I hope no one here is out to invalidate your feeling because that's toxic for you to be around at these times.

I think some ppl are shocked to the treatment your willing to tolerate in order to be with this person.

Your right we are all weak and mostly dysfunctional ourselves or we would quite simply not be here.

I honestly think you need to think of yourself a lot more here. You can not allow another human to treat you this badly or your probably going to regret this forever.

You still have time to seek out a relationship you deserve. Please don't stay with a person who's destroying themselves and taking you along for the ride.  I was doing exactly the same until I strengthened my boundaries. But throughout my turbulent relationship, hand on heart, I would never allow another human to do to me what you describe.

You must command a BPDs respect as you do a child or most will leave you on the floor to perish.

May I suggest posting on the staying board? People just may understand your situation better and may be able to offer you more constructive advice.  And hey, even if they come back and say that you should not tolerate her behaviour then maybe that'll help you more in establishing better boundaries x

[OnceConfused]

Sorry about the tough talk, but we don't know your entire history with her. All we read was what you described. Those info alone pointed out some red flags perhaps you had not noticed.  I personally missed or ignored the red flags in my rs with the xBPDgf, just because of my attachment. It took me some therapy sessions and lots of reading about BPD, before I could understand what I was getting into.

You and only you can make the decisions for your life, be it good or bad. We, here,can give you our opinions . You can take them and then blend with your own assessment to come up with your own decision. You will live with that decision. I came to this site to gather other inputs so I can make a decision that is best for me and my children. The best one for me was to leave xBPDgf, and it turned out to be the best one of my WHOLE LIFE.

With your new comments about her involvement in swinging with her 2 previous husbands, I can see why she overtly has been looking for more men in her life, not just one. Personally, that was not my style nor my desire to be with a swinging woman, but you might not be bothered by it.

If you want to continue the rs with her, then you really don't need any advices or inputs from anyone else, you just stay put, do nothing, and wait for her to call or come back to you. It looks to me like when she is ready for you again, she will come back. 

Good luck with your decision

[redbank1915]

the latest for now-I just spoke to her she is out of town, she has been preoccupied with her mom's terminal illness and thinks I should just move on that knowing her has been too painful for me... she felt that we can be friends in six to nine months once this crisis in her life and my health issues are resolved but does not feel its worth an attempt for recycle number 4 because its too hard on me and hard but not as hard for her... .she seemed to poo poo any commitment she had ever made to me... frankly given what you all have said here and history I think this break off is for the best and i will see how I feel in 6 months... she will let me know when her mother passes and I would like that... .not sure I will go to funeral but I may send flowers...

[shatra]

Once confused wrote---

If you want to continue the rs with her, then you really don't need any advices or inputs from anyone else, you just stay put, do nothing, and wait for her to call or come back to you. It looks to me like when she is ready for you again, she will come back. 

-----I have heard too that it is best to wait for them to come to you... .he plans to wait 6 months.  Is each timeframe different? I heave heard of the pwBP returning after a year or more... .even after they are with a replacement

[redbank1915]

waiting seems the best and i may not want to continue a friendship or rs with her 6 months or more from now... so it works for me-I don't make any decisions one way or the other in the thick of this emotional morass... .I still think she is BD and sense that the group agrees with me judging my the responses?

[Lou12]

Hey Redbank,

I'd use this time whilst she's away to strengthen yourself and I bet if you do in 6 months time (with some work) you will not allow her to get away with the previous things she's done x

[redbank1915]

Thanks I think you are probably correct. The thing for me in the next while is to strengthen, distance and to consider what if any relationship I want with her. I did love her at least I think I did, but I am not sure I can have a healthy relationship with her. Nor i suspect she to me. Truthfully no relationship at this stage in my life may be better than a project one and this one may require a lot of therapy. I suspect she is BPD but also has an Avoidant style in relationships which may be explained by past trauma, my style is more anxious so there is a fit there but It might require more energy than I am capable of putting out. I do not want to be walked on or controlled and she is not the only fish in the sea. The real question I ask myself is OK-lets say somehow she changes through some process, will a relationship be healthy or not. From this website it seems to me an awful lot of work being in a relationship with someone who frankly may not be capable of having a loving intimate and trusting relationship.

Food for thought-the answer will not emerge overnight but will emerge in time.

[redbank1915]

well after a bit more of to and fro things have reached a head.  She suggested no contact for 6 months but did she did engage from time to time-I was guilty of communicating much and too often.Recently she has not given me her address-that is a first. She suggested we remain friends, that is much as she wanted , admits to leading me on(seemed to forget that she pushed cohabitation)  and that it suited her needs for fun when she was struggling. Back on stand by if she can fit me in-feels like she is with someone else hence the 6 months.

After reading all the stuff here and remembering the pain this has caused me i focused on what i was getting from this person as opposed to giving... .On the friendship category there really wasn't much there and she seemed to have no inclination to say what was in a friendship for me.

So... .I just confronted her with the lack of giving in our relationship or "friendship" and agreed no contact  i am moving on... there really is nothing here for me... regardless of what she is up to, why she moved out, why no address etc... it makes no difference there is nothing here for me and in these boards I just see unending heart ache... I cannot see the rewards for being in the clutches of such people and I must admit there must be something inside me that creates a vulnerability  . I do not see happiness here , just unending strife .

[shatra]

redbank wrote

She suggested we remain friends, that is much as she wanted , admits to leading me on(seemed to forget that she pushed cohabitation)  and that it suited her needs for fun when she was struggling. Back on stand by if she can fit me in-feels like she is with someone else hence the 6 months.

-------Sounds like she wanted cohabitation, and now is saying it just suited her needs for fun? THat is a huge contrast between the 2-----she wanted cohabitationn but now just reduces it to having been "fun".

------What is the stand by you mentioned?  What does that mean?

-----If she is with someone else, it will likely end---would you take her  back in the future?

[redbank1915]

you know she never really dealt with the cohabitation in our recent dialogue.I said I did not understand how we could start and end  so abruptly... no answer... the last time we talked about it she said something like well she found it, in fact I found it but she wanted to turn it into a" love nest" this idea died within three weeks but not until we had bought some furniture,in between she went away for a week on her ownu and we attended a Mary Kay conference in Montreal-I think I may have been a man she had to produce for appearances sake, she went cold right after,after I moved out she moved back to look after her mom and tried to rent the apartment out on airbnb(she had done that with another place)... but that did not work so she gave it up... .that whole quit flip really blew me away and there is no doubt I became quite needy. calling and emailing her ay too much

when she said yesterday6-9 months no contact and lets be friends or relationship is not a romantic one, my response was I don't think a friend says let be romantic for"joy and fun". I call that deception and manipulation and lacking in integrity. I pointed out  she had started communicating with me while sleeping with someone else and that I did not feel good about our lack of integrity and recognized that if she would do it to someone else she could do it to me.

I said she seemed quick to point out what she received but slow to point out what she gave me as a friend. I told her because of that I could not see how we could be friends.

Yes she may well be with someone else. So what? There is nothing here for me, no love no giving no sharing no real intimacy and not even honesty and transparency. How can a future look any different than what has happened already.No I will not take her

back.For me  there is only pain and heartache in a future with her.

[redbank1915]

Re standby-that is my word, we and others with her have been on and off in the time I have known her. If she did not care for me but had three on and offs with me, I think I was a stopgap a standby when the guy(s) she wanted either walked or were hard to land.

Like many of us I think she does not like being with out a partner... .the failure to give a current address even though its temporary is a huge red flag so she probably is with someone else.

Her behaviour seems to fit so many others in this forum.