Funny understanding of feelings

[CrazyChuck]

My wife has a huge issue with the AC/Heater. I know I can never touch the AC/Heater in the house or the car. So I screwed up by saying I was hot and turning on the fan. Then I was trying to validate that I understand she might not have been hot, and I should have asked her before turning on the fan. This quickly went to me not caring about her feelings. So I said the following:

Me: I understand your feelings are very important to you

Me: Your feelings are very important to me

Her: That is a lie, and I hate liars

Me: My feelings are very important to me

Her: You are trying to make this about you, you are so narcissistic

Me: My feelings are very important to you

Her: I don't give a f*** about your feelings

Her: My feelings are everything to me

Her: I will do anything to protect my feelings

Her: You don't care about my feelings, you just want to hear yourself talk, because you are a narcissist.

I just leave and go water the yard. When I get back inside, everything is good like nothing happened. She is cooking dinner.

I get this most times I try to validate her feelings.

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[MaroonLiquid]

You aren't validating any certain emotion there.  In my estimation, a simple apology for not asking if she was "comfortable" temparature wise could have avoided all that.  You said yourself that you didn't think about her in that moment.  It happens.  That is where an apology is warranted.  The moment she cussed at you is when you should have walked in my opinion.

[AsGoodAsItGets]

Wow,  can relate so much to that dialog,  used to be very comfortable with conversing in such a way with my ex.  then one day I came back from a BBQ and had an amazing time.  My ex asked my to leave a little early so we could still enjoy some of the evening together.  literally came in the house singing and smiling.  She raged about dishes  (one butter knife not being placed in the dishwashier).  I quickly took care of that, and said I was sorry.  She raged some more, then tried to apologies.  Well to make a long story short the was the last evening she lived with me.  As much as i loved her,  It was not going to be possible to marry her and do this forever.  It did kill me inside,  all the hard working getting her off drugs, the cheating, making her comfortable to move in,  motivating her to get a new job.  Looking back I would love to try one more time (she is not interested), unfortunately i have an amazing women who is full of love, care and compassion and is a perfect partner.  Life is a pleasure now.  If you truly love this women, i hope everything improves.  good luck

[CrazyChuck]

You aren't validating any certain emotion there.  In my estimation, a simple apology for not asking if she was "comfortable" temparature wise could have avoided all that.  You said yourself that you didn't think about her in that moment.  It happens.  That is where an apology is warranted.  The moment she cussed at you is when you should have walked in my opinion.

I started off with the apology. But like many times, the apology was not good enough. The apology is very important to her. She sends me links often on how to give a proper apology. I think my original apology was something like "I'm sorry I didn't ask you if you were hot before turning on the fan. I didn't think you would feel the fan from where you are sitting". She came back with "You do not have to add where I am sitting in your apology. Once again you have failed to give a proper apology. The first part was fine. Say you are sorry for not asking me before turning on the fan. Anything other than that is an insult. You continue to insult me with these fake apologies and could care less about my feelings.". Then I tried to say "I understand your feelings are very important to you". At this point I could tell she was getting extremely agitated. But I really thought I could save this conversation.

[CrazyChuck]

then one day I came back from a BBQ and had an amazing time.  My ex asked my to leave a little early so we could still enjoy some of the evening together.  literally came in the house singing and smiling.  She raged about dishes  (one butter knife not being placed in the dishwashier).  I quickly took care of that, and said I was sorry. 

This is the hardest part for me. I have said "I'm sorry" more to her than I probably have in my entire life. It is exhausting saying "I'm sorry" three or more times a day. But the good times are great! I often say 75% of the time life with her is better than fantastic. And 25% of the time life with her is hell.

You can't really enjoy planning vacations, birthdays, or holidays. Everything can be going fantastic and then you leave the cap off the toothpaste, an empty glass on the counter, didn't order the drink she wanted, waited to order her drink and didn't know what she wanted, turned on the tv, and millions of other triggers to spoil it. 

[maxsterling]

 

Aint that just the way it goes... . 

So many times I do something that really is no big deal (such as getting up to pee), and somehow it triggers rage.  About the only thing I can do is apologize (even though I really don't understand what I am apologizing for) and know in my heart I am doing nothing wrong. 

There's nothing wrong with turning on a fan because you are hot.  You did nothing wrong.  She's irritated about something else.  You just happened to be in the room.

[Hope26]

Hi Chuck and Max,

The incredibly frustrating thing to me is it seems that it really is these extremely trivial things that set them off.  I've tried asking H what was 'really' bothering him, and he'll tell me it was indeed the way something was placed in the pantry, or the way a piece of laundry was folded, or the fact that I glanced left before following his orders and looking to the right.  They have the emotional maturity of 3 year olds, and the temper tantrums to go with them, so no 'misdeed' is to small to trigger their anger.  Or so it seems to me.  Hence the 'walking on eggshells' and feeling like you're living with PTSD from enduring all the unexpected outbursts.

[maxsterling]

Hi Chuck and Max,

The incredibly frustrating thing to me is it seems that it really is these extremely trivial things that set them off.  I've tried asking H what was 'really' bothering him, and he'll tell me it was indeed the way something was placed in the pantry, or the way a piece of laundry was folded, or the fact that I glanced left before following his orders and looking to the right.  They have the emotional maturity of 3 year olds, and the temper tantrums to go with them, so no 'misdeed' is to small to trigger their anger.  Or so it seems to me.  Hence the 'walking on eggshells' and feeling like you're living with PTSD from enduring all the unexpected outbursts.

I've started to quickly recognize what is really going on. Not that I can do much about it, but when she snaps at me, it's not long afterwards when she is telling me about something that happened earlier.

[babyducks]

Hi Chuck,

I get this most times I try to validate her feelings.

Validation is based on some very complex theory.  People write entire books on the topic.   Trying to learn it, or explain it simply are both very difficult.  It's very hard to validate in emotionally charged situations.

Try this link.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation

One of the take aways you might find in the link, has been summarized by another member an0ught on another thread,  they are:

There are four combinations possible and at the beginning it is easy to loose perspective and get stuck.

  1) Don't invalidate the valid,

  2) Validate the valid,

  3) Don't validate the invalid,

  4) Selectively  and carefully invalidate the invalid.

Yeah -

I like to think of it like a major league baseball player swinging at a pitch.   No baseball player swings at every pitch, every ball player tries to figure out what pitch he is swinging at before he takes a cut.

In the link I gave you it talks about finding the validation target, or finding the pitch to hit.   Finding the pitch to hit is tough.  I miss more than I hit it.   If you aren't getting results from validation it might mean you are swinging at the wrong pitch.    The validation target can vary... .check the link.

The other thing is says in the link is

Let's first look at the importance of being true and authentic to ourselves. If we can't be true and authentic, we are sacrificing ourselves for the benefit of another, and we are most likely enabling another person's dysfunction. This helps no one.

Validation should convey your true feelings.  I found it works much better for me when I really mean what it is I am saying.   That it's coming out in my real voice.   

I liked what MaroonLiquid said earlier.   My first thought when I read your posting was there isn't a lot in this exchange to validate.   Only validate the valid.    The term "validating the valid" is simply a reminder to never go so far in your efforts to be validating as to validate inappropriate actions. There are plenty of ways to be validating without crossing that line.

Validation is complex skill.   It takes a while to get the hang of it.   If validation is hard right now,  you can practice here on us... .and while at home work on not invalidating your wife (step 1).   

what do you think?

'ducks

[CrazyChuck]

Let's first look at the importance of being true and authentic to ourselves. If we can't be true and authentic, we are sacrificing ourselves for the benefit of another, and we are most likely enabling another person's dysfunction. This helps no one.

Validation should convey your true feelings.  I found it works much better for me when I really mean what it is I am saying.   That it's coming out in my real voice.   

I liked what MaroonLiquid said earlier.   My first thought when I read your posting was there isn't a lot in this exchange to validate.   Only validate the valid.    The term "validating the valid" is simply a reminder to never go so far in your efforts to be validating as to validate inappropriate actions. There are plenty of ways to be validating without crossing that line.

This is spot on. I was thinking last night it feels like she is sucking out my self confidence. The first two years seemed to only happen twice. I was full of self confidence. She has said and done some things that I will never get over. I still love her. But Now I am at the point of trying to keep the good times by validating everything. As soon as I spill milk on the counter, I'm saying "I'm sorry, I should be more careful, I will clean it up right away.". If I post something or like something on social media, I ask her if it is ok. There have been too many times I have posted a selfie and it was a trigger. Once she got so mad that there were women following me on a social media platform. She said she was going to send friend requests to all the hot single men she could find and start having private texts with them. So I had to shut it down. I am validating everything. I just want our lives to go back to like they were the first year. I try to just keep the peace now by saying "I'm sorry everything is my fault" about three times a day. I am going to try and just validate the valid. One funny time, she got mad over me not turning in the first entrance to a parking lot. She wanted me to apologize. I said "I am not sorry I took the second entrance". She said "that is not a good apology". I said "it is not an apology as all". She said "That is still not an apology". I just stopped talking, but I knew the day was over.

[CrazyChuck]

Crap! I just got a bunch of angry texts. It was a good 12 hour run of happiness.

[123Phoebe]

Crap! I just got a bunch of angry texts. It was a good 12 hour run of happiness.

How about turning off your phone?  Remember: don't validate the invalid  Is there anything in those texts that warrants a response?  An apology?

I had to learn to sit with my anxiety.  Hard to do when something's just gnawing at me, argghh!  But before we can make anything better, we must stop making it worse

Deep breaths... .in through your nose, exhale through your mouth.  Aahhhhh.  Keep doing it!

[CrazyChuck]

Crap! I just got a bunch of angry texts. It was a good 12 hour run of happiness.

How about turning off your phone?  Remember: don't validate the invalid  Is there anything in those texts that warrants a response?  An apology?

I had to learn to sit with my anxiety.  Hard to do when something's just gnawing at me, argghh!  But before we can make anything better, we must stop making it worse

Deep breaths... .in through your nose, exhale through your mouth.  Aahhhhh.  Keep doing it!

I really wish I could go more than a few hours without apologizing for something.

[babyducks]

 Remember: don't validate the invalid  

I understand not wanting to apologize, and from what you are describing it's not working for you either.   

At least it didn't in this example,   you were told it was a fake apology and an insult.

Maybe 123Phoebe's suggestion of turning the phone off and letting her self soothe was the better approach?

[CrazyChuck]

 Remember: don't validate the invalid  

I understand not wanting to apologize, and from what you are describing it's not working for you either.   

At least it didn't in this example,   you were told it was a fake apology and an insult.

Maybe 123Phoebe's suggestion of turning the phone off and letting her self soothe was the better approach?

I wish I could just turn off my feelings and stop caring