The Shoe Has Dropped...

[Parents! Get help here!]

I have suspended service to her phone and will for until she can demonstrate she can come home on time.  She had mentioned previously about paying off her phone and getting a plan herself.  

Any sleepover priviledges are suspended until I feel she can be trusted which means yes, I will begin testing her.

I told her that she needs to earn more clothes by following house rules as she has plenty, otherwise she buys them herself.  Initially I agreed to going halves.  I will still go halves if/when she abides by the rules.

I 100% agree drugs are the driving force in all of these negative behaviours.

[raytamtay3]

I have suspended service to her phone and will for until she can demonstrate she can come home on time.  She had mentioned previously about paying off her phone and getting a plan herself.  

Any sleepover priviledges are suspended until I feel she can be trusted which means yes, I will begin testing her.

I told her that she needs to earn more clothes by following house rules as she has plenty, otherwise she buys them herself.  Initially I agreed to going halves.  I will still go halves if/when she abides by the rules.

I 100% agree drugs are the driving force in all of these negative behaviours.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Ok so her phone is suspended.  Any suggestions on the duration?  DH seems to think until at least Monday (6 days without).  I was thinking if she keeps coming home, and on time, I would agree to Saturday.  Thoughts?

She had a natural consequence yesterday.    She was turned away from work for showing up with hickies all over her neck which occurred the night she was out all night... .her boss told her not to bother showing up until they are gone.  So now DD is without money and is stressing about that.

She stayed home all day yesterday.  Sat with me on the sofa showing me funny videos her and her friends made.  I found myself extremely tense with her sitting near me and I feel horrible about that.  It's like I'm back in self-protection mode... .

I did have a talk with her and told her what needs to occur for her to continue to stay home.  The only thing she is fighting me on is going to school... .I even brought up the possibility of her doing the night school thing after she asked how I expected her to be able to get up at 6 am every morning to go to school and then work 6 days a week.  I told her that education is important right now and that she would need to discuss with her boss that she needs to be part time due to school obligations.  She isn't agreeable to that.  She feels that she is going to be picked on when she returns and constantly drug tested.  I told her then she has to stop taking drugs and that wouldn't be an issue.  She wants to be emancipated.  I told her it isn't that easy.

My anxiety is through the roof again.  I've found lately that I am unable to parent DD to the best of my ability when I'm feeling like this, so I am going to go back to my doctor and be put back on something to help me cope.  I'm in fight or flight mode.

[raytamtay3]

Just a little update.  I contacted DD's district CMO and told him what's been going on the past week and a half.  He was floored.  He is coming out this evening to meet with DD and I and asked if it would be ok to "scare" DD a little.  I told him to go for it! Whatever it takes man.

I know DD probably feels like her world is crashing down around her with the suspension and now being told to leave work.  I can only imagine what's going on inside her mind right now.  I neglected to use SET last night in our conversation, however, I was very calm and direct in what needs to occur.  But I really should have told her that it must have been upsetting to have her boss tell her to go home after showing up from work.

She did ask me last night if we could go clothes shopping and I did tell her that yes, we can go out and get a couple of things tonight.  The fact that she's even staying home a second night is a good thing.  I think I will use this time she's giving me to really try and talk to her about her struggles and about working together to get back on track.

[infiniteeyes]

Hey there Raytamtay3

Sorry you are going through a rough time at the moment.

My anxiety has also been through the roof the last few months but has calmed down now a bit as I started meds too a couple of months ago.

I know where you are coming from in feeling sorry for your DD.

Im in the same place feeling sorry for my daughter being away from home right now.

I have to keep reminding myself that I have tried everything in my human powers to keep her on the straight & narrow, but there comes a time where you have to let go and let her take responsibility for her actions.

She was covered in hickies and sent home from work - GOOD!

She might think again about letting some boy chew on her neck 

My DD has come home looking the very same and it is so hard to look at isnt it?

Thats pretty normal teenage behaviour though I guess.

I would consider her having her phone back on Saturday if she sticks to the rules.

Whose money is she using to buy clothes? Hers or yours? I would be mindful of the message it is sending if you are going to dip ur hand in your purse for her. Just a though x

You are doing a great job. I understand the feeling tense around her part. My DD was sending me into full blown anxiety attack by just being in the same house as me. Your brain and body are on constant high alert and of course that takes its toll on you. I hope the meds give you some relief. You deserve it.

Let us know how the talk goes and the CMO visit. Thinking on you ... .

[raytamtay3]

My dd's friend has a two bedroom house she rents. Im considering allowing dd to move out to give her an idea of just how tough it is being on your own. Thoughts?

[lbjnltx]

It is tempting to give them what they ask for and desire with the hopes that they will learn their lesson and come to their senses... .realize the errors of their ways.

The time for independence will come soon enough, 18 isn't too far away for your daughter when she will be responsible for herself and you will lose parental authority. 

It is difficult to know what to do when what we've done isn't making the difference we hope for.  I encourage you to revisit your goals and make decisions based on your family values, boundaries, and parental authority.  Keeping in mind that 1. we have to live with the choices that we make and the outcome of them. 2. the decisions we make for our kids may or may not have the desired outcome right now 3. our kids will hold us responsible for making the right choices on their behalf. 4.We want to set them up for success, not failure to the best of our ability and within our power.

lbj

[infiniteeyes]

Yes ramtamtay3 I can see how it might be tempting to let her move out. If it were me I would probably offer to help pack her bags 

But i agree with lbjnltx. Keep in mind that if it doesnt work out you will be crucified. I would stand my ground until she is 18. What have you got to lose? Keep well x

[raytamtay3]

I agree that allowing her to move out right now isn't a good idea.

Now back to school... .I have one week to decide what to do.  :)o I allow her to take the GED and be down with this constant struggle of getting her to go to school, or do I push for her to go to school which ultimately will result on constant suspensions I'm sure because everyone there is now painted black?

She said her therapist even said how school isn't for everyone and that if the end goal is for her to get her diploma, why not just allow for her to get it now? Well the reason is because I don't see DD even following through with that!  I'm really at a loss for what to do.  I cannot keep having to leave work to pick her up from school, which has been the case for years.

DH says that if she cannot get along with people at school, how is she going to learn how to get along with people in the real world?

[lbjnltx]

Can you and dd have this discussion at the IEP meeting and then make a decision based on what dd is willing to commit to?

[raytamtay3]

I actually just found an excellent program being offered at the community college for ages 16 - 24.  It's a 6 months HS equivalency test preparation program.  They offer a lot! They pay for transportation, the test itself (which is $100), lunch, vocational training and even offer a $25 - $30 week incentive for students to participate in a mandatory in-house certification program that runs from 12:45 - 1:45 Wednesdays and Thursdays.  Student have to put in a minimum of 15 hours a week (so she could even go from 9:00 - 1:00 four times a week if she wanted).  The woman I spoke to say students can make their own schedule, as long as they put in the 15 hours).  :)amn... .where were these programs when I was growing up?

I did talk to DD about it and told her I would think about it, but that she would have to guarantee me she would complete the program and that we would need to come up with a consequence if she doesn't.

She can't be enrolled in school in order to apply.  She also needs to take a 3 hour test and score on a 6th grade level or above to qualify. So I have to act fast and can't really wait until the IEP meeting which is scheduled for next Monday - the day she is to return.  The school would need to fill out a non-enrollment application that we'd need to submit.

Thoughts?  

[raytamtay3]

Any advice on the subject of school? She's due to start back Monday and in order for her to attend this program, she needs to be unenrolled in school. Anxiety is high because I don't know what to do.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Dibdob59]

I am unsure if I should post this. I have been thinking about this all day. If anything I say upsets or offends you I am truly sorry but I am not sure that what is best for your DD and what is best for you are going to be the same thing.

I can identify so much with the story you have told on this board over the years.

When my son was at school and getting into problems/trouble I invariably ended up seeing his side of things and trying to do all in my power to support him and fight his corner.

I am now absolutely certain that this was the wrong thing to do. I would do anything to turn the clock back and let him suffer the natural consequences of his actions.

By this I mean that I wish I had not stepped in and made excuses for his behaviour when he failed to comply with a school rule. I wish I had not tried to see his point every time, defended his inappropriate behaviour, blamed the school/teaching staff/other students. I wish I had not been so afraid of what his reactions would be if I did not 'fix' things for him and I wish I had not spent the last 18 years feeling his pain for him.

This behaviour on my part did not help him at all.

Even if my intentions were good I made things worse. I disabled him. He did not learn how to pay the price for his inappropriate behaviour or anger and at 31 he still looks to me for this support.

I have been trying so hard to pull back but I have to accept that he knows of no other way to survive.  My advice to anyone parenting a BPD son or daughter, however hard it may be, is to let them fully learn the really hard lessons of facing the consequences of their behaviour.

I know as a mother it is unbearable to see them in pain. But your DD failed to comply with a school requirement for testing. If she now feels difficult or awkward at school because of this, it is her fault. By letting her avoid this desperately looking for other means to finish her education you are helping her to avoid this lesson.

I know as I have done this. It did not work. The college course was never finished. Nor was the next one. Nor was the first job, the second job, the third job. And guess what. Every single one of these always ended badly but my son said it was always someone else's fault. He could never see he was to blame.

I would think hard before you allow your DD to keep moving the goal posts each time her behaviour causes her (and you) problems.

I mean this with the deepest compassion

Dibdob 

[raytamtay3]

I am unsure if I should post this. I have been thinking about this all day. If anything I say upsets or offends you I am truly sorry but I am not sure that what is best for your DD and what is best for you are going to be the same thing.

I can identify so much with the story you have told on this board over the years.

When my son was at school and getting into problems/trouble I invariably ended up seeing his side of things and trying to do all in my power to support him and fight his corner.

I am now absolutely certain that this was the wrong thing to do. I would do anything to turn the clock back and let him suffer the natural consequences of his actions.

By this I mean that I wish I had not stepped in and made excuses for his behaviour when he failed to comply with a school rule. I wish I had not tried to see his point every time, defended his inappropriate behaviour, blamed the school/teaching staff/other students. I wish I had not been so afraid of what his reactions would be if I did not 'fix' things for him and I wish I had not spent the last 18 years feeling his pain for him.

This behaviour on my part did not help him at all.

Even if my intentions were good I made things worse. I disabled him. He did not learn how to pay the price for his inappropriate behaviour or anger and at 31 he still looks to me for this support.

I have been trying so hard to pull back but I have to accept that he knows of no other way to survive.  My advice to anyone parenting a BPD son or daughter, however hard it may be, is to let them fully learn the really hard lessons of facing the consequences of their behaviour.

I know as a mother it is unbearable to see them in pain. But your DD failed to comply with a school requirement for testing. If she now feels difficult or awkward at school because of this, it is her fault. By letting her avoid this desperately looking for other means to finish her education you are helping her to avoid this lesson.

I know as I have done this. It did not work. The college course was never finished. Nor was the next one. Nor was the first job, the second job, the third job. And guess what. Every single one of these always ended badly but my son said it was always someone else's fault. He could never see he was to blame.

I would think hard before you allow your DD to keep moving the goal posts each time her behaviour causes her (and you) problems.

I mean this with the deepest compassion

Dibdob 

Dibdob - Thank you for your honesty and advice! I am not the least bit offended by your remarks! In fact I appreciate them very much as you are 100% right!  My only concern is that if DD doesn't go to school, I'm ultimately the one whose going to be penalized due to truancy.  So it's more or less trying to safeguard myself because I know in my heart of hearts that DD is always going to have difficulty in life.  In fact, she was just fired for the hickies too.

[Kate4queen]

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but it feels a bit like your DD is drawing you in to thinking like her that every problem has to be fixed immediately and on her terms. It's like you're so busy jumping to stamp out fires at the moment that you can't see the big picture.

I got like that with my son-just reacting to every situation rather than stepping back and seeing how much I was being manipulated into doing what he wanted.

So how about letting things go as they are meant to? Don't search for alternatives to avoid her having to go to school. Let her face the natural consequences of her choices? Go to the IEP meeting, lay it out there and if they come after you because of truancy? remember you already have enough info about your DD to involve other agencies and stop her taking control of the situation again.

[lbjnltx]

I think revisiting what the goal is and finding a way to achieve it will give you the answers that you are seeking.

It is her education, it is her future, it is her responsibility to achieve that goal.  One of the highest level skills we taught our daughter was how to negotiate for what she wanted.  It was up to her to convince us (and the school) that she could achieve her goal of earning her diploma in an unconventional setting.  I held her to her commitment and did not relent when she began to doubt herself and her ability to keep at it.  I was a cheerleader, supporter, enforcer, and encourager. 

This is a major milestone that will affect her life for many years should she fail to achieve it.  Regardless if she is being manipulative or handicapped by her mental illness... .keep your eye on the prize and make decisions in a cooperative manner with her.  Cooperation beats forced compliance every time.  JMO

Lots of good feedback from everyone  raytamtay.  Trust yourself to make the right decisions on your daughter's behalf.

[raytamtay3]

I appreciate everybody's input on everything I've posted.  I want you all to know that I do hear what you are saying and I do try and look at things from all different angles.  There does come a point where I have to decide what is worth fighting for and what I need to resign myself and my methods to.  With that said, I have decided to let me DD take the secondary education program to achieve her high school equivalency because I just cannot keep on this battle to get her to go to regular HS. School has been a battle from the very beginning.  It's literally causing me anxiety and mental anguish trying to get her to be cooperative and stay in school.  My goal, and my DD's goal, ultimately is to get a diploma.  Whatever it takes to reach that goal I am going to encourage and support her in.  I have to give up my dream of her going to proms, resuming playing sports and living a normal teenage life because despite her even saying that's before she was released from the RTC, she is not normal and she has no desire to do those things. The more I push, the worse things get.  While I am still holding to my boundaries of house rules, this one struggle I am compromising on.  The condition is she is to complete the six month program or she will need to go back to HS.  :)o I see that happening - oh it's 50/50.  I see so many on here fighting the fight for their children for years and years to come.  I don't see myself being able to di it.  I will be supportive to my DD, but I will not sacrifice my sanity.

Maybe I AM the reason my DD is so messed up because I am so indecisive of what's the best thing for her is. I've made many mistakes along the way as well.  I most definetly am in FOG because I left my marriage and moved my kids to another state.  :)D was only 8 and had to leave her friends and everything she knew behind... .This is something I will never forgive myself for, and I do make decisions with her because of my guilt...

I cannot see sending my DD back to an RTC because she doesn't go to school.  I could not do that in good consequence despite her CMO threatening that.  I still don't think they even understand what I'm up against. They still see it as a behavorial issue and not a mental condition.

I'm just drained and heartbroken at the moment having realized that my dreams for her are not going to be a reality and that I have to let go... .

[raytamtay3]

I am literally about to have a nervous breakdown! Now I receive a call from DS8 school saying how another student told a teacher DS said he had S E X with his sister! Jesus Fing Ch*st! What next?  I can 100% guarantee that is false. But now CPS is going to be involved! We need this sh*t on top of everything else! What the heck!

[lbjnltx]

Holy moley!

Take a deep breath... .he is only 8 (as is his friend)and doesn't understand the ramifications of what is being said.

Let us know that you are ok and how we can help.

This is a very stressful time, please take care of you. 

[infiniteeyes]

hi raytamtay3

My heart goes out to you for what you are going through.

Your first post today was so eye opening and positive even though tinged with some sadness and regret.

It really hit home for me too and I know exactly how you are feeling torn between the guilt and letting go. Dont play the blame game with yourself. Your DD was not the only child ever moved away at the age of 8. And that is not the root cause of her problems. I also hear your frustration with the professionals labelling DDs problems as behavioural and not a mental illness. Hang in there. You know what you are doing and you are doing it well. Hopefully your daughter will see that you are pulling back a little and take up some of the control of her own life. I dont think our kids have the capacity to take full control just yet, but baby steps all the way. It is sometimes a game of push and pull and I understand your anxieties and frustrations.

Please try not to worry about your son and his friends comments. CPS will probably investigate, yes, but your son is just a little kid and they will be conscious of how kids talk and Im sure it wont be the first time they have had to deal with this kind of thing.

Also they should understand the impact our BPD kids antics have their younger siblings and maybe you should mention this. Of course the younger ones will act out or speak out in unexpected ways as they dont have the coping skills to deal with the atmospheres at home.

Again, hang in there. All will be well. Thinking of you, hugs 

[js friend]

Im sorry you are going through this... .Often when things get rough, they truly do for us... .The rollercoaster never seems to end.

Hang in there Raytamtay3 

[raytamtay3]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful words through this trying time. I thought for sure CPS would have come out Friday or this weekend, but they didnt. So i dont know if/when they will.

What an emotional rollercoaster ride Ive been on. And I know im preaching to the choire (sp?). I am 44 and Im guessing, or should I say hoping, that my hormones are beginnng to go haywire because I have been so deressed for the past several months and its really scaring me. Im sure a lot of us question our own sanity when having someone in our family with a disorder. Its scares me that i will be stuck in this funk forever. So down and anxiety ridden with very few moments of feeling happy anymore. Crying at the drop of a dime. Irritable. Ugh, its horrible.  It scares the hell out of me.

Its times like these that I truly feel so lucky to have found this site and the wonderful people who occupy it for I dont know what Id do without it. Thank you everyone for being so supportive, understanding, non-judgmental and patient with me.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

We will continue to be here for you raytamtay.   

Let us know how the IEP meeting goes today and which direction your d will go in to achieve her diploma. 

[raytamtay3]

The IEP team pretty much said that they recommend this program to kids like my DD who are just unmotivated to attend a regular HS.  She said she has known of some kids who have gone on to lead very successful lives after completing it.

I'm just distraught over the whole thing. But it's my issue.  My wants. So, I will be unenrolling her and applying for the program this week.  I'm just tired of fighting this fight.    :'(

[mggt]

Dear Ray,  Take care of yourself you are doing everything for your dd dont feel guilty it really is a waist of time and it only hurts and keeps us stuck with severe depression .  Your a wonderful mom pleaSE hang in there and give it some time     

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