My own BPD tendencies

[goateeki]

I'm a few years out from a long term marriage to a diagnosed pwBPD.  Have been in a relationship with a seemingly normal woman for about fifteen or sixteen months, and much of it is great.  There are some structural issues in her life (specifically her apparent lack of desire to actually divorce the man she left five years ago) that would seem to prevent the two of us from moving into the future together.

So I am contemplating moving on, and I admit that I have my eyes on someone else.  I am alarmed at how badly I want things to progress with this new woman.  I have moments when I think about what it would be like to be with her -- be in a relationship with her.  Every one of our exchanges feels charged to me (I wait for her to text).  I feel a bit of chaos inside, not knowing if this is more than a bite.  It seems I have a bite, but I want more than that.

There is a view of these facts that would say that this is the emotional life of someone with BPD.  Despite the busy-ness (is that a word?) and the achievement of my life, I feel less real when I am without a relationship that's not charging forward. 

My T assures me that I am a reasonably healthy, well individuated and resilient person.  If this is not BPD (and I don't believe that it is), it is at least a glimpse of what it must be like for a pwBPD.  Maybe what I feel is the promise of the future while dealing with the remains of a relationship that just could not move into the future.   

Thoughts?  Has anyone else here felt like there is something wrong with them?  This might be the first time that I am a little alarmed at the emotions I am feeling about a new prospect (and my need to put effort into a new prospect).

[GreenEyedMonster]

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this lately, especially after my realization that my ex is probably NPD with a dash of BPD, not the other way around.  pwBPD are notoriously attracted to those with narcissistic traits, and vice versa.

I know what you mean about that feeling of getting high off a relationship.  It represents a break from a routine, and most importantly, potential for the future.  I think that there are a lot of people out there who are addicted to a sense of potential more than anything else -- the idea that life isn't going to decline into monotony.

I had a very happy childhood, but experienced a few rough abandonments beginning in my teens.  I was always a "good" and "smart" kid and would try to earn people back into my life by being what they wanted.  For some reason the feeling of being used feels comfortable and happy to me.  I know that there is something wrong with that.  The reality of the way it plays out in relationships, however, is quite different, because I like to have people show me kindness and attention too.  So I get in relationships with the wrong types of people at the outset, then the chickens come home to roost.  I end up back where I started, in a situation where I have to earn my place in the relationship or it will dissolve.

I have learned that people who are alone and desperate are often in that situation for a reason, as was very much the case with my ex.  Dating someone with many prospects may be intimidating, but it's worth it to know that a person has chosen you for good reasons.  I'm working on getting healthier and overcoming my abandonment fear.  I do think, however, that my NPD ex triggered my abandonment fears on purpose, because it worked in his best interest, so part of that sense of my pathology showing up wasn't a coincidence, and wasn't just me being defective.

[Daniell85]

There is nothing BPD about leaving a relationship that isn't going anywhere for one that could.

It's healthy.

Recommend you do end the relationship you have, though, before getting much further involved with the new lady.

[goateeki]

I know what you mean about that feeling of getting high off a relationship.  It represents a break from a routine, and most importantly, potential for the future.  I think that there are a lot of people out there who are addicted to a sense of potential more than anything else -- the idea that life isn't going to decline into monotony.

I was always a "good" and "smart" kid and would try to earn people back into my life by being what they wanted.  For some reason the feeling of being used feels comfortable and happy to me.  I know that there is something wrong with that. 

I end up back where I started, in a situation where I have to earn my place in the relationship or it will dissolve.

Dating someone with many prospects may be intimidating, but it's worth it to know that a person has chosen you for good reasons.  I'm working on getting healthier and overcoming my abandonment fear. 

I think that this is the second time I've read something you've written and been a little blown away by the insight(s).  This especially: "For some reason the feeling of being used feels comfortable and happy to me."  Maybe the experience of being used first requires a person who has a need to use someone else, and where there is a need, there is a way to fill the need.  Really amazing, the dynamics of human relationships.  Through all of this the phrase "Love is a survival strategy" keeps popping into my head.   

[goateeki]

There is nothing BPD about leaving a relationship that isn't going anywhere for one that could.

It's healthy.

Recommend you do end the relationship you have, though, before getting much further involved with the new lady.

Thanks, and I completely agree.  I've been told that the relationship has ended, though for some reason we will see each other on Saturday. 

[GreenEyedMonster]

I found an excellent website that seems to put into words a lot of the struggles of those of us in bad relationships.  It's called Voicelessness.com and it's run by a therapist named Richard A. Grossman.  I'd highly recommend taking a look.

One of the things he proposes on his site is that there are people who get stuck with "little voices" in life -- people who were frequently invalidated as children and never learned to have a confident, full sense of self.  He proposes that people with "little voices" are attracted to people they feel will give them a voice.  They also find acceptance by learning to please others. 

A quote from the site:

"To secure their place in the family, these children often become expert in intuiting their parents' feelings and moods and automatically responding in ways they deem helpful.  In effect, they become good parents to their own parents. "

He says that there are a couple different ways this can go for adults with "little voices," but one of them is that they become adults who give till it hurts, often putting up with use and abuse.

I identified so much with this description.  I am definitely an adult with a "little voice."  Unfortunately, this means that all someone has to do to use or abuse me is make me feel important to them.  My relationship with my ex was just that.  He knew how to make me feel important, perpetually bombing me with compliments and praise, while taking me for all I was worth.

Becoming aware of this vulnerability has given me a lot of insight into why I'm attracted to certain people and helped me be more rational.

[Turkish]

What GEM speaks of and quotes sounds like Emotional Incest. It's certainly a dynamic that we can carry forward into adulthood, mistaking a need fulfillment trap for a relationship.

[hurting300]

I think for starters, it's unhealthy to say you could be a narcissist if you dated a BPD . If you were one, you wouldn't be here "hurting". Labels are overstated.

[SamwizeGamgee]

This is interesting, thanks for posting and being open.  I have concluded that, for me, I'm healthy - and still flawed.  Normal people are filled with all kinds of problems, quirks, and downright destructive habits. 

I came to an epiphany a while back when I found myself suddenly unburdened when I declared to my uBPDw that "yes, I changed my mind!" - followed by "yes, I was wrong. Things changed."  She had previously used all forms of manipulation and guilt to corner me and make me feel worse, for pretty much any reversal, change, anything true or not.  But, that lost all power when I admitted that I was human, change my mind, change direction, get better, get worse, get over it.  Shocking.

As for your situation, you don't have to have BPD to make less effective life choices.  The allure of a new woman is always strong. And, it's usually a bad decision. 

It's how we are wired.  We hunt, we discover, then discard.  I will not advise any once choice of woman over another, but, maybe being aware of your tendencies will guide you.  In your position, I would not feel like I had an honest relationship with a woman who was still married, even separated. So, I'd have no heartburn leaving her.  If she's so great, let her finish her business and get divorced, then, if it's still meant to be, it will work out.

You make a good point how, as survivors, we all tend to look very hard for traits we are accustomed to suffering with.

[Sunfl0wer]

What GEM speaks of and quotes sounds like Emotional Incest.

Is it? 

It seems very relevant also to those not having been through emotional incest.

I peeked briefly at the site and bookmarked it for later as it looks like I will relate to it and want to read more later.

For me, I was not intuiting my mom's feelings for the interpersonal benefits.  It was not to bond, to grow closer, to make her pleased with me.  I learned to intuit them to remain invisible, to hide, to not be a target of rage and abuse.  She was not aware and involved in my dynamic of my behavior of reading her as she was too self centered and I literally did not matter to her.  It was not to feed some identity on her part or make her feel anything in relation to me.  Put simply: I do not consider myself a victim of my mom for emotional incest.  However, I feel all the same stuff from that site is relevant to me.  I did not 'hear' that it was referring to emotional incest specifically, however, I can see how that dynamic could very easily apply to that type of situation also.

[GreenEyedMonster]

What GEM speaks of and quotes sounds like Emotional Incest.

Is it? 

It seems very relevant also to those not having been through emotional incest.

I peeked briefly at the site and bookmarked it for later as it looks like I will relate to it and want to read more later.

In my opinion, the site addresses the broader issue of emotional neglect.  For me, I grew up feeling very secure and feeling very much wanted, but I never had anyone "enter my world," as the author of Voicelessness.com says.  That really resonated with me.  I grew up in the staunchest of staunch Northern European cultural bubble, where feelings were NOT talked about, especially if they weren't pleasant.  I never had adults view my thoughts or ideas as equal to theirs, and sometimes I was dismissed as being irrelevant or flawed.  I feel like I was dismissed in various ways growing up -- I was just "cute," I was PMSing, I was "just fine and worried too much," etc.  All of this added up to the voicelessness that is described on that site.  I actually feel like it happened much more at the hands of other adults than my own parents, but it is the cumulative effect of a lot of other people's attitudes toward children.

The way to my heart is to legitimize what I feel and what I say.  People who do this get instant access to my feelings, because I'm so desperate for it.  It's my weakness.  My ex did this for me, and that's why I liked him.  In a way, it's not such an unhealthy beginning of a relationship, but it skews my judgment when it comes to staying in bad situations.  If someone SEES me and HEARS me I will not be quick to let them go.

[GreenEyedMonster]

I think for starters, it's unhealthy to say you could be a narcissist if you dated a BPD . If you were one, you wouldn't be here "hurting". Labels are overstated.

I think it's a myth that narcissists don't hurt.  Narcissistic wounds and insults -- of which a hard breakup could be an example -- cause them a great deal of pain, anxiety, and stress.  Those with narcissistic tendencies or traits, below the threshold for a diagnosis, would probably be even more prone to feel raw emotion.  We all have a few, but with any personality issues, some have more than others. 

Whether disordered or not, a lot of people on this board seem to struggle with the wound to their ego and the sense that they were found inadequate.  That's why you see so many threads about rage and revenge.  Labeling yourself might not be productive, but being honest about the fact that an ex wounded your ego might be a step in the direction of healing.

[Suzn]

feelings were NOT talked about, especially if they weren't pleasant.  I never had adults view my thoughts or ideas as equal to theirs, and sometimes I was dismissed as being irrelevant or flawed.  I feel like I was dismissed in various ways growing up -- I was just "cute," I was PMSing, I was "just fine and worried too much," etc. I actually feel like it happened much more at the hands of other adults than my own parents, but it is the cumulative effect of a lot of other people's attitudes toward children.

You are describing an invalidating environment. Emotions being explained as something other than what they are can cause cognitive dissonance. If you felt angry and you were told that you're fine, you worry too much by people whom you trusted as a child instead of helping you identify and express that emotion appropriately, could have profound effects on your adult life. Learning how to trust your instincts later in life can be difficult after being raised within this scenario.

The way to my heart is to legitimize what I feel and what I say.  People who do this get instant access to my feelings, because I'm so desperate for it.  It's my weakness.If someone SEES me and HEARS me I will not be quick to let them go.

You are triggered by people who validate you. This is my history too. It's an unhealthy start to a relationship. We want to work towards self validation so we can be emotionally available for a new relationship. We risk being vulnerable to an enmeshed (codependent) relationship otherwise.  

[GreenEyedMonster]

I think most of us feel like we "click" with someone when they "get" us and can enter our world and understand us.  That is what I mean when I say that it's not necessarily unhealthy at the beginning.  When I first felt attracted to my ex, it was because we were in the same profession, loved some of the same hobbies, had many of the same talents, and had similar upbringings.  We appeared to have similar values and expectations of a relationship.  We could talk for hours because we had an easy understanding of one another.  I've been attracted to people for much less healthy reasons before, but in this particular case, I had rational reasons to believe that the relationship would work out.  His desperation, as it became apparent, was actually a turn-off to me.

What I noticed as the relationship went on was that the validation I was getting was not genuine, it was manipulative.  Based on all of our commonalities, my ex should have been able to provide genuine interest and caring.  He gradually became very invalidating, much like some of the people I knew growing up.  He would dismiss my emotions as "childish."  Like you said, Suzn, it was difficult for me to trust my judgment in the situation, because I was taught to trust someone else's judgment about my feelings.  So maybe I *was* being childish when I set up boundaries and tried to express my feelings.  This kind of thinking kept me trapped in the relationship longer than I should have stayed, but didn't necessarily exist at the start of the relationship.  Things that interested me amused him, like a child playing with a toy, but he never expressed genuine interest or support for my endeavors.  He didn't want to *learn* about me.

Fortunately I have a low tolerance, as an adult, for people invalidating my feelings, and I was thinking of terminating the relationship when he left me.  I think the thing that was most traumatizing about the situation was not the breakup itself, but the sense of violation from feeling that someone FINALLY wants to meet me where I am and get to know me, then realizing that he only acted this way because I was providing for his needs.

[Turkish]

He didn't want to *learn* about me.

Fortunately I have a low tolerance, as an adult, for people invalidating my feelings, and I was thinking of terminating the relationship when he left me.  I think the thing that was most traumatizing about the situation was not the breakup itself, but the sense of violation from feeling that someone FINALLY wants to meet me where I am and get to know me, then realizing that he only acted this way because I was providing for his needs.

One of the members here once said that her T observed that it wasn't so much a relationship, but a need fulfillment trap. That can cut both directions, depending upon our own tendencies.

What I bolded above, after too many sessions to count, my T observed, "I don't think that she really knew you." He had seen her for two individual sessions before she quit.