Rebuilding Part 2

[Wize]

Posting just to vent... .

After the conversation about which one of us is BPD and which one of us is projecting, I received a couple of emails from her.  The first was the typical "I want the fantasy with you, I love you, but I can't do this anymore, so goodbye" that I'm becoming very familiar with. Another was a claim that I didn't like her. I tried to assure her that I did, and that I love her, and offered to go to counseling with her or whatever. She said that she needs time. I am going to respect that.

Here I sit though, missing her and chatting with her, wondering what she's doing, and all of the other things that I know won't help me but are natural for me. I'm guessing that there's a cross between codependency and love at play here right now. I want to reach out and try to soothe the hurt from earlier today, but I also know that I must respect her boundary. Thankfully, my T reassured me during my first session with her that I don't have to act on each and every one of my impulses!

I'm trying to stay centered and grounded. It's really kinda weird, I'm trying to remain detached while also trying to reconcile the r/s. Maybe that's healthy though. Maybe that's my love for myself trying to work with my love for her?

I dunno. I do know that I'm hurting a little right now, but unlike in the past I'm not ashamed that I keep trying with her. I believe that she's worth it as long as she keeps trying too.

Geez man.  How do you do it?  I got so frustrated trying to communicate honestly with my ex that I couldn't take another minute of it.  You're punishing yourself by allowing her to continue manipulating you.  That is all these pwBPD do, they manipulate.  They are NEVER not manipulating.  You really need to decide if you're going to put your efforts into detaching or reconciling.  Being conflicted is almost worse than accepting it's over.  It's certain more tumultuous to be torn in between trying to make it work and accepting that it won't.  

[Meili]

I wasn't always here Wize. I used to allow her to push my buttons and I would take it all personally. I don't do that anymore. Well, at least I try not to.

A person can only be manipulated if they allow themselves to be. I've taken that power away from her. What I've discovered is that if I enforce my boundaries the situation is far more manageable. When I don't, chaos ensues and we've reset the clock; for both of us.

By accepting responsibility for only my own actions, I have been able to take control of my life back. I don't think that I'm punishing myself. I am hurting because I miss her, and worried about what her ultimate choice will be, but that's really all that I'm feeling with regard to all of this.

As for the a hard-line between detaching and reconciling. I have a different view on that than you do. Part of me must detach from the r/s if there is any hope in reconciliation. If I don't detach, I will just get sucked right back in and the cycle will continue as it has.

By detaching, I've learned a great deal about what are my own emotions and what have been projected on me. I am learning self-control and self-confidence. Also, I'm learning to release that which is out of my control. These are all tools that will be necessary if there is any reconciliation. More important, if there isn't, then I will need the to move forward in my life without her.

[Wize]

I wasn't always here Wize. I used to allow her to push my buttons and I would take it all personally. I don't do that anymore. Well, at least I try not to.

A person can only be manipulated if they allow themselves to be. I've taken that power away from her. What I've discovered is that if I enforce my boundaries the situation is far more manageable. When I don't, chaos ensues and we've reset the clock; for both of us.

By accepting responsibility for only my own actions, I have been able to take control of my life back. I don't think that I'm punishing myself. I am hurting because I miss her, and worried about what her ultimate choice will be, but that's really all that I'm feeling with regard to all of this.

As for the a hard-line between detaching and reconciling. I have a different view on that than you do. Part of me must detach from the r/s if there is any hope in reconciliation. If I don't detach, I will just get sucked right back in and the cycle will continue as it has.

By detaching, I've learned a great deal about what are my own emotions and what have been projected on me. I am learning self-control and self-confidence. Also, I'm learning to release that which is out of my control. These are all tools that will be necessary if there is any reconciliation. More important, if there isn't, then I will need the to move forward in my life without her.

I made some threads and posts like this one.  The mods moved them to the "conflicted" board or the "improving the relationship" board.  Because you're not detaching from a failed relationship.  You're conflicted.

[Meili]

But, I'm not conflicted. I'm very clear on where I am and where I'm going. If she wants to come along for the ride, that's on her. I've already made my choice.

Oh, and I have a thread or threads on the "saving" board too. Different things are discussed there. Here I discuss how I'm feeling as I detach/prepare to detach and heal the wounds.

[Wize]

But, I'm not conflicted. I'm very clear on where I am and where I'm going. If she wants to come along for the ride, that's on her. I've already made my choice.

Oh, and I have a thread or threads on the "saving" board too. Different things are discussed there. Here I discuss how I'm feeling as I detach/prepare to detach and heal the wounds.

You know, at least you understand that the situation has to change. Thing is, I had to realize that the only way to make the situation better was to leave.  I don't know if your SO is in BPD therapy or what.  But I understand where you're at because that's where I was.  Standing on that cliff, looking over and understanding that if you don't jump off into the water below, the lion will attack you.  You're still deciding how long you can handle being mauled before you jump into the water.  That's the conundrum.  Because you love the lion, deeply. 

I understand that you need to get to a point where you realize that all your tactics, ultimatums and tools aren't going to make your pwBPD any better, they aren't going to make her love you better.  All your tactics will achieve is shifting and readjusting the abusive dynamic already in place.  That's strictly my opinion. But hell, we have to try. 

[Meili]

That's the thing though Wize, I am not giving any ultimatums or using any tactics or tools to try to change her. It's about my accepting that her issues are part of who she is. I have no question of her love for me. Just because she's afraid does not mean that she doesn't love me.

As for the abuse, one can only be abused in this situation if they allow themselves to be abused. I think that's the difference here between your way of thinking and my own. You view it as a lion about to attack and maul me. I view it as having protections in place to prevent myself from being mauled. People have lived in the wild for years and survived when they know what to do to protect themselves.

Also, I don't carry around any resentment or anger towards my x. She is who she is. I can either accept and love her, or I can move on. I have chosen the former, regardless of whether or not she choose to come along. I will always accept and love her.

I understand and respect your choice to leave. I had made that choice when I first came here. The more that I've learned about disorders, the more that I've learned to accept things as they are. I was able to see my role in all of this and accept my accountability for everything that happened. She wasn't in it alone and I wasn't a saint.

[Wize]

I view it as having protections in place to prevent myself from being mauled. People have lived in the wild for years and survived when they know what to do to protect themselves.

Oh, I get it.  I just got tired of lugging all that armor around.  I want a relationship with someone I don't need to protect myself from.  So I jumped off the cliff.  It was and still is pretty freaking scary.  

[Meili]

But, Wize, any healthy r/s will require you to have and enforce boundaries, have a strong sense of self, accountability for your own actions, and acceptance of the other person. That doesn't change just because the person isn't disordered.

In fact, if you don't have those things, the r/s will be just as doomed.

[Wize]

But, Wize, any healthy r/s will require you to have and enforce boundaries, have a strong sense of self, accountability for your own actions, and acceptance of the other person. That doesn't change just because the person isn't disordered.

In fact, if you don't have those things, the r/s will be just as doomed.

You're right.  BPD relationships are just like any normal relationship.  So why are we all at bpdfamily?  All we needed to do was realize that these relationship are like any healthy r/s.  At least, according Meili. I guess I'm just a big p#ssy for bailing on my BPD wife. All I needed to do was be a better, stronger person... .like you. Darn.

[Meili]

Wize, I'm sorry that I've upset you. I didn't mean to convey that a r/s with a pwBPD is the same as one with a non. They aren't.

Also, I didn't mean to insinuate that my situation is anywhere close to yours or compare you and I. And, I certainly didn't mean to come across as claiming that I'm any better than you. We are completely different people with different lives. One is not better than the other, just different.

I can see where you might think that I was saying something about "being a better/stronger person." Again, I didn't intend for there to be any comparison. I have not lived your life, nor experienced what you have. I cannot know what you know.

I just know what I know and know that I believe that the things that I listed are important for any r/s to be healthy. I didn't have any of those things when I left my r/s. I didn't have them before for that matter. That's what got me into this mess in the first place. I am striving to be a stronger and better person as a result. Being able to have a healthy, stable r/s with someone is my goal.

[Meili]

Hey Meili, Why are you giving her all the power to decide?  Why is it "out of your hands"?  It's up to you, my friend, to figure out what you want to see happen, not her.  That may feel uncomfortable or a burden, but that's the way it is.  You're the Captain of your own Ship.  Got it?

LuckyJim

LJ, I've been giving this some more thought. Perhaps I am giving her the power to decide my fate, but not in the way that I first thought when I read your post.

In many ways, I am sitting still, waiting for her to decide. I shouldn't do that at all. I shouldn't wait. If she decides that she wants to contact me, I should deal with it then.

But, that's not what I've been doing. I've gone back to jumping every time my phone notifies me that I have received a text message or an email. My heart beats with anticipation. Then sinks with disappointment when it isn't her. Yes, clearly, I am waiting and still giving her power over me.

I have not fully detached from the situation and the old r/s. I'm still harboring expectations. I'm still focusing on the wrong things? I'm still asking the wrong questions. Like today she told me that she needs to think. I've spent the better part of the day wondering what that actually means?

I need to regain my focus.

[Wize]

Hey Meili, Why are you giving her all the power to decide?  Why is it "out of your hands"?  It's up to you, my friend, to figure out what you want to see happen, not her.  That may feel uncomfortable or a burden, but that's the way it is.  You're the Captain of your own Ship.  Got it?

LuckyJim

LJ, I've been giving this some more thought. Perhaps I am giving her the power to decide my fate, but not in the way that I first thought when I read your post.

In many ways, I am sitting still, waiting for her to decide. I shouldn't do that at all. I shouldn't wait. If she decides that she wants to contact me, I should deal with it then.

But, that's not what I've been doing. I've gone back to jumping every time my phone notifies me that I have received a text message or an email. My heart beats with anticipation. Then sinks with disappointment when it isn't her. Yes, clearly, I am waiting and still giving her power over me.

I have not fully detached from the situation and the old r/s. I'm still harboring expectations. I'm still focusing on the wrong things? I'm still asking the wrong questions. Like today she told me that she needs to think. I've spent the better part of the day wondering what that actually means?

I need to regain my focus.

I was a little upset earlier.  In fact, I have been for the past couple of days.  Why? Because I've had to interact with my toxic wife to discuss the divorce proceedings. She's like a snake who introduces venom into my bloodstream and I start feeling sick. And I have to spend the next few days hashing stuff out with her.  Ugh.

Meili, I just hope you realize that what you're dealing with isn't normal and it's bad for you. By staying attached to her you're doing harm to yourself and you don't deserve that. You know you can't trust her. And you know that whatever she says to you, you cannot take it at face value. 

You're in a relationship with someone who spins you around until you're dizzy, and every time that happens you have to regain you're footing.  For me, my BPD exwife spun me around so much I got used to being dizzy all the time. Not knowing which way up and which way is down. Such a horrible feeling. 

Like LJ said, she's doing this to you and you're letting her.  I really hope you go no contact soon, for your own health.  Try 2 weeks to start with.  You know you need to do this. 

[Meili]

Thank you Wize, I know how stressful a normal divorce is. And, actually, I know how stressful a divorce from a pwBPD is (that would be my second exwife).

I'm completely aware that what I'm dealing with is not normal. The r/s wasn't normal, I am not normal, my x isn't normal, and what I'm trying to do isn't normal. In fact, the only normal thing about this is my motivation: Because I want to do it for me and because it's what I want.

It took me quite a bit of time and thought to figure out what my motivation behind all of this was. At first it FOG. I worked through that. Then I had to look at the codependency reasons: I am a rescuer, I wanted to save her, I hate being alone and lonely. I had to realize and accept that I cannot rescue or save her and that until I fix some of my other issues, I'll feel alone and lonely regardless. I'm still working through my codependency issues. Those are going to take time. Then there was the good, ole "I love her." I had to question how I could love someone who abused me? It is because in those moments between idealization and devaluation this wonderful woman resides. While the idealization is nice, the period between is where I fell in love. So, if I can find a way to minimize the effects and provide a semblance of consistency, I might be able to have more of what I love.

I'm not convinced that I agree with all of this being unhealthy for me. To the contrary, thus far, it's been the healthiest thing that I've ever done for myself. It has caused me to examine all aspects of my psyche. Some were easy, most are taking time to delve deeper into. I have also discovered many things that I truly want and don't want in my life.

I'm neither in a r/s nor am I dizzy. I'm well aware of what is happening and the likelihood of failure. I'm even more aware that I'll probably never be given the chance to find out. This is why I say that I'm not conflicted. It is all really clear to me. So what if I have to regroup and regain some footing each time? That isn't her doing, that's my own. That's my own failure for not keeping things in check. I have much to learn still about myself and triggers. But, I'm willing to do the work regardless of what she decides to do with her life.

[Meili]

I'm struggling today to deal with some of the changes that I've been making in my life. All of this is so new and foreign. I've never really been in control of my own life, so this is hard.

I'm not used to asking for help with my needs. I'm really not used recognizing them and meeting them myself. I must have hugged my inner child twenty times in the past 12 hours. Poor scared kid! At least my inner critic has shut up and my outer critic has quieted down.

Today I'm doing the normal post-breakup morning stuff as I continue to move deeper into detachment. I am missing who she was between the extremes. I am missing watching her cook and doing other things that she enjoys. The quiet times when we were just in the same room together. The sound of her voice when she wasn't engaged in histrionics. Things like that.

I will admit that it is nice to no longer be focused on the anger that I felt for so long for how she treated me. No longer am I holding onto all of the times that I literally pleaded with her to stop abusing me and to pay attention to me. For her to stop neglecting me the way that my mother did. And, the frantic attempts to hold onto the r/s that would swing from begging, crying, and pleading to raging, insulting, and demonizing. Likewise, I'm no longer holding onto the idealization of how perfect of a woman she was. (I'm sure that was stressful for her too.) It amazes me that the three opposing images of the same person can reside in my head with complete disconnect between them.

I have let go of the shame, guilt, and regret for the things that I have done. They have been replaced with compassion and sympathy for what she experienced.

I've moved into quiet mourning for what could have been. The simple sadness that is borne of failed dreams. The anxiety that comes from starting anew.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Meili, I'm glad to hear you are giving more thought to my previous post in the spirit I intended, which was out of a concern for your well being.  Some of my posts, I know, are pretty direct and pointed, though I think that sometimes it helps to hear something said plainly when have a lot on your plate.  Hope I didn't overwhelm you, because  I've been in your shoes, believe me, and I understand what you are going through.  It sounds like you are on your way to finding the right path, which is your task.  Keep us posted and we'll help you on your new journey.

LuckyJim

[Meili]

Thank you LJ, sometimes it takes me a minute to see past my initial interpretation of words.

I was posting on the "deciding" board as Wize suggested, and something occurred to me; I'm sad.

I'm sad because I brought my own issues into the r/s and my x only got to see the parts that I was allowing them to control and she'll never get to experience the changes that have occurred postmortem.

I'm sad because of the pain that I caused her because of those issues. I accept that I cannot change any of that, but I'm still sad.

In my mind, I'm going to choose to believe that she'd be happy about them and for me. It saddens me to know that she won't be able to reap the benefits of the changes that she became the catalyst for.

[Reforming]

Hi Meili

Interesting thread.

As some of our members have said in older threads we all work through these relationships in different ways. Some of us need to revisit our relationship repeatedly until we've made sense of our feelings and our behaviour. Everyone has to find their own way and they're entitled to do that without judgement and reproach.

But sometimes when we read the stories of other members and we recognise behaviour similar to our own it can trigger us. We can feel a compulsion to try and get them to avoid making the mistakes that we made.

A few observations.

Idealisation. Focussing on the best bits of our partner was often a useful survival technique that helped us navigate through the really dark times. Non's do this too. Reaching a genuine emotional acceptance of the truth or the reality of our exes personality - good and bad - isn't easy especially when there's a disorder involved. It challenges our beliefs about the unique connection we felt and whether we were really special to our ex. Did they really love us?

Rescuing. That's a big one for many of us particularly if deep down we really want someone to rescue us. At an subconscious level it's transactional. I'll save you and you'll save me. And then there's the power dynamic. Do we really want to save our partners? Or do we want them to be the perfect partner they showed us they could be - for brief period of the relationship? The problem with rescuing is that it typically ends up leaving deep hurt and disappointment on both sides. The healthier alternative - rescuing ourselves - can feel like hard and lonely work, especially when we feel we've lost what we hoped would be our lifelong cheerleader.

I think a disordered relationship can fill up a lot of space and when it ends it often leaves a feeling of profound emptiness. We're left with hard questions and difficult choices and we're on our own. It's very understandable that we can be drawn back even though part of recognises that it's unhealthy.

Thanks for sharing

Reforming

[Meili]

Thank you for the response Reforming. I'm not sure what you were getting at though. Could you please explain?

I agree that I've had to revisit my r/s several times to get a better grasp on my feelings and actions. The main one being why I pushed my x away as much as I did. Part of that was easy. She would cause me so much pain and nothing that I tried worked, so I felt that I had no other option but to set away. But, the biggest one, the one that neither she nor I have been able to reconcile is why I held onto my friend so closely when my x kept telling me that it was destroying our r/s?

I have all but determined that it was my own abandonment fears (mixed with a healthy does of passive aggression) that caused that. I never felt worthy of my x, so I was always certain that she would leave me. I wasn't afraid to be intimate with her, to the contrary, I was and am completely open to accepting her love.

Idealization - I don't idealize my x (at least I don't think that I do), if that's what you were getting at. I know all too well her good and her bad. The cycle and her triggers are easy to see. I have not forgotten how horrible the bad times were for me. The thing is that C-PTSD and BPD share many of the same basic components and symptoms. The major difference between the two is that BPD contains the elements of perceived betrayal and victimization. I feel neither of those. But, suffering from C-PTSD gives me a unique perspective on my x and her choices. It makes me far more tolerant of her behavior because I understand it on an intimate level. So, it isn't an idealization of her, it is a radical acceptance of her.

Rescuing - Ah, yes, this definitely applies. I wanted mutual rescuing. I probably still do to some extent. From this, resentment was borne. I'm learning to quash my codependency so that I stop trying to rescue others and am able to rescue myself.

Yes, the ending of the disordered r/s did leave a major void and has left me on my own. I'll have to give this more thought, but my initial reaction is that I've been thankful for this time on my own. Without it, I never would have been able to dig into my issues and the problems that I've created for myself.

The reality, for me, is that I'm still in love with the woman that I have radically accepted; the complete woman, the good and the bad. Also, I'm enjoying the changes that in myself that I'm accomplishing and learning to accept. I would love to share them with her because without her they would not have been possible (at least at this point in my life). Yes, it saddens me that she's chosen another path. I know that I'll be fine on my own though and I'll have healthier r/s in the future as a result.

Even with that knowledge, today I'm struggling with the fact that ultimately she has abandoned me. It's understandable that she has though based what she has to deal with and the pain that I caused her. I don't blame her for that.

[Lucky Jim]

Even with that knowledge, today I'm struggling with the fact that ultimately she has abandoned me. It's understandable that she has though based what she has to deal with and the pain that I caused her. I don't blame her for that.

Hey Meili, Suggest you revisit my earlier post.  Your r/s didn't work out, but casting yourself in the victim role because she allegedly "abandoned" you is a passive stance, in my view.  Why are you making excuses for her to the effect that it's "understandable" why she left?  Why are you blaming yourself?  Suggest you stop beating yourself up and determine what is within and what is without your power to change.  Then focus on that which is within your control and let go of the rest, is my advice.

LuckyJim

[Meili]

LJ, I take that stance because it is the way that I feel. What I'm realizing since I wrote that though, is that it's probably my mother's abandoning me that is really at play here. I have never been "good enough" for my mother, and she neglected me. So, as a young child, I learned that not being good enough caused people to neglect me.

I made huge mistakes in my r/s, and that's why I'm blaming myself. My x has told me that the mistakes are probably unforgivable after telling me that she toyed with the idea of reconciliation and had gone NC when I wrote that (there were a couple friendly-ish texts this morning). So, since I have not learned new ways of thinking and have not been able to reprogram that part of my brain yet, that's where it goes.

I try to only focus on the parts that I can control. I guess that I'm not clear on what you're seeing that I'm focusing on that might be out of my control.

[Reforming]

Hi Meili

I didn't mean to be judgemental and you deserve respect and support for the work you're doing on yourself. I was just observing that some of us need to reengage a number of times before we find the closure. There's nothing wrong with that.

At some level I think we all have to take responsibility for our choices. This is the foundation for growth. You're clearly working hard to take responsibility for your own behaviour which is very brave and healthy. Do you think she is willing to do the same?

I realise that this doesn't guarantee a positive outcome, but it creates the possibility of one.

I spent a long, long time making excuses for my ex. Childhood sexual abuse, various traumatic episodes and a genetic predisposition to mental illness but it didn't really help her heal because it allowed her to avoid taking responsibility for her behaviour.  Ultimately I ended up enabling her rather than encouraging and inspiring change by working on myself.

I don't know if the outcome would have been any different but I realise now I was far too focussed on her and her dysfunction. Over time I also realised I had become very critical of myself - the relationship was quite damaging.  It's taken a lot of effort to address this and I needed a safe space to do this. I couldn't have done this if I was still engaged with her so I detached. I'm not saying that this is right for you - but I needed that detachment to re-centre myself, process and rebuild.

You clearly have a lot of compassion for her. Do you feel that your giving the same degree compassion to yourself?

Thanks for sharing

Reforming

[Meili]

Excellent insight and questions Reforming, and thank you for your support.

I know that she's seeing a counselor. I know that she told me that it really threw her for a loop when I said that I think that she might be a pwBPD. I don't know if she'll do anything with that or not.

I try not to focus too much on her, what she's doing, how she's dealing with her issues, etc. None of that is within my control.

I try to give myself the same, if not more, compassion that I do to her. This is a new skill that I'm learning, so it's still difficult.

[Lucky Jim]

What I'm realizing since I wrote that though, is that it's probably my mother's abandoning me that is really at play here. I have never been "good enough" for my mother, and she neglected me. So, as a young child, I learned that not being good enough caused people to neglect me.

Now you're getting somewhere, Meili.   

Once you identify an issue, as you have done, then you can recognize the pattern and make positive adjustments.

Concerning your question about what might be out of your control, I would suggest that your whatever your Ex decides to do is outside of your control, right?

LuckyJim

[Meili]

Yes, whatever she does is outside my control.

I also realized something today, I keep trying to view what she may or may not be doing through my own filters as I have done so many times in the past. I'm making assumptions and bracing for impact still. I really need to stop that. It isn't fair to her and it's hurtful to me. I'm working on living in the moment.

[Turkish]

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