Is this worth saving? (27m with possible 27f girlfriend)

[itscoldinjuly]

I posted this in a reddit forum, but realized didn't know that a place like this existed. I am not sure if my gf has BPD, but some of what I've read here sounds familiar, and I'm looking for some advice.

It started magically, we fell in love and fell in love hard. She made me feel amazing, and in turn, she felt amazing too. We seemed perfect for each other, the same goals, the same outlook on life, which makes sense since we met studying for a graduate school entrance exam, the MCAT. I was so in love, I got a new job, which was a lot closer to her and we could see each other a lot more often. She was my best friend, she was needy, but very loving, and the relationship seemed so perfect, I thought I had died and gone to heaven.

That's when things started to slowly go down hill. At first, it was random anger outbursts over seemingly nothing. I remember the first one clearly, I was scanning through the radio stations while driving and it came upon the Howard Stern show and he was talking about sexual fantasies. I lingered on the station perhaps for a second or two, and then she had an explosive outburst over how disgusting I was. These outbursts became more frequent, and they became personal. She blamed it on the fact that I would occasionally leave to visit family (which I would for a week or two). If I extended my stay, it was hell on earth.This seemed like a double standard, she lived at home with her parents, while I didn't and had to travel for holidays and events.

The temper tantrums continued, they were not frequent, one or two times a week, but they were very damaging. We would spend all night in the car arguing, she would scream and yell, and started scratching me, pulling my hair, I would push her away in return (though never actually hitting her). Then she would cry and apologize, I tried being very supportive. She would blame it on stress, studying. I told her it was okay, that no matter what, I still love her.

Some weeks would be worse than others, some weeks we fought everyday. There were accusations of checking out other girls, of leaving her. We both took our MCAT exams, I did very well, and she didn't, I got blamed for it (mind you, I'm studying while working full-time, she worked part time and lived at home). The day I received my score, she made it into another fight, said I was going to leave her. I told her I would put off applying to medical school for her which I did. She said I wasn't as loving anymore, I tried to fix things, I took her out, spent money on her, sometimes things were great, sometimes I could do no right.

I got better at judging her moods, I tried to avoid the fights whenever I could. I would hold my tongue, looked down if we were out and an attractive girl walked by, not making jokes lest she take them the wrong way. But now she started complaining that I didn't talk as much anymore.

I would try to calm her down when things exploded. Tried to leave when things got bad (I didn't want to lose my temper too), but she wouldn't block my way and keep fighting. I would crawl into bed to sleep, she would follow me, turn on the lights, and rip the blanket off. If I still didn't response, she would start pulling my hair and hitting me again. This would go on for a couple of hours, then the crying and apologizing. There was a time when she flipped out at a restaurant, I spent a few hundred dollars on dinner and got anger, verbal attacks for two and half hours. It's the verbal abuse that really stings, even more than the physical attacks, the name-calling, talking about how much other guys want her, etc.

There are still good times, but now with every fight now I withdraw further and further. The last one, she called her own mother to complain about me in front of me, it was embarrassing. I didn't speak to her about a week afterwards, we tried to mend things, but I still feel really hurt by it. I haven't really seen her for another week since. I bought a ring six months ago, but now I'm feeling hesitant.

I don't think she had BPD, only some symptoms. She has wild mood swings, the sex is incredible, but she doesn't do self-harm, no drugs and I don't think she has ever cheated on me. Certain times I feel like I'm dating an out-of-control teenager, carefree joy and hormonal moods wrapped into one person. She has a tough time holding onto jobs, and getting along with co-workers, but she does have friends and is active in her community. My family initially liked her, but she has fought with my siblings, though my siblings were also in the wrong. I'm not perfect by any means, I can get busy with work and not call her until the afternoon, I hang up when the fighting gets really bad. But I have tried to do my best, be there for her, drive her around (she doesn't like highways), pay when we go out, give her gifts, flowers, make her happy the best I could.

She has been giving me space and hasn't really initiated contact and I appreciate that from her. But all I can think about is how peaceful life is right now without her. I still love her and miss her, but don't really want to get sucked into another fight. For the time being, I just want to focus on myself and getting into school, and just let the relationship be. Am I doing the right thing?

[HopefulDad]

Is this worth saving?  No.  Hey, you asked.

the sex is incredible

Of course it is.  I suspect if it wasn't, you would have kicked her to the curb.

You want a sneak preview of your life in 13+ years once you hit 40?  You have no shortage of reading material in these forums as there are plenty of 40+ year old spouses either struggling with their pwBPD, watching their children (or step children) suffer, going through rough divorces and custody battles, etc.  Somebody started a thread where they asked if you had to do it over again, would you have married your pwBPD and the response was overwhelmingly negative.

You have been given a gift: You are aware of this disorder before getting married.  You have this forum to draw upon before you do anything long lasting.  Most of us were not given this gift and have had to make the best of it. 

[Lilyroze]

Is this worth saving? No! Like Hopeful Dad said, sorry you asked.

The problem is you are abandoning your self and core values for her at every turn, to be abused more daily. Time with family, putting off applying to your career. That is wonderful and admirable in a healthy, loving, respectful relationship. Which this relationship is not.

I can't agree with HopefulDad more,  you have the forum, the tools, and the answer of what you are facing and what she probably has.

 Many of us didn't have that and are now picking up pieces of our lives, self esteem, dealing with covert NPD or BPD abuse ( at least some), that is soul destroying if you are a caring type. You keep trying to fix, figure out what you did wrong, dimming your light because you can never be right, smart or in good standing when they want to rage. Then when you see them discard your children ... .well that is final straw if you are a mama or papa bear with your kids.  

You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. Try to figure out why you are putting up with this, when so many healthy loving women would be proud to have you in their life. You're on the path to enlightenment. Understanding piece by piece of the puzzle is frustrating, but so important to get to the core of why you are letting happen. Then heal that.

When people are empty inside, they use others to feel better. They are like  never ending empty hearts that need filling up. The only problem is that there are holes in their hearts or containers. Whatever they use to fill up the heart or container of their lives doesn't stay with them because it's not the love contents- it's the container. The cycles continue, and they can't look within so they need to rage, deflect and blame.

Until and unless she wants to get help, work on her issues and self esteem then bring that to the relationship it is doomed.

Traumatic relationships infect us with doubt.  It's easier to think about the good times!  Try to write down at least five things that were really awful.( which I know you did but continue that... .then read it back as an observer, read your original back as if a friend. ) You might find that the list just keeps growing and growing... .then place the dates, including friends or family hurt.

If you don't examine then like many of us you will be going through post traumatic stress the rest of your life with her.

The re-living of traumatic occurrences allows the brain to re-process and eventually heal from trauma. You have to understand that this is one way for you to try and make sense of non-sense. Most of the trauma you have experienced is painful- yet no one can live through this pain but you.Though there is tools, and books, and the board here to help. Then you will be on your path and journey to healing, health and a happy relationship.

Many of us our facing the trauma you are and trying to heal, and it is difficult to say the least.

[formflier]

I told her I would put off applying to medical school for her which I did. She said I wasn't as loving anymore, I tried to fix things, I took her out, spent money on her, sometimes things were great, sometimes I could do no right.
 

 


The short answer is no... .it's not worth saving.

The more important answer is that you sort out boundary issues about relationships in general.  IF you decided to go back to this relationship, or any other, you will need to be the leader in modeling healthy relationship skills.

Hope to see you again on the forums. 

FF

[Meili]

I'm going to take a slightly different stance from the above posters and say that you're the only person who can actually answer your question. None of us know you, nor do we know her. All that we know is our own experiences and what others have conveyed to us.

There are some important questions for you to answer for yourself though, is this truly the relationship that you want and worth giving up all of the things that you will have to give up and endure all that comes with it?

Can you accept her as she is, and all that comes with her regardless of what that is, without judgment or trying to fix her?

Are you strong enough in your idea of self that you can self-soothe and self-validate on top of soothing and validating her?

[itscoldinjuly]

Is this worth saving?  No.  Hey, you asked.

the sex is incredible

Of course it is.  I suspect if it wasn't, you would have kicked her to the curb.

You want a sneak preview of your life in 13+ years once you hit 40?  You have no shortage of reading material in these forums as there are plenty of 40+ year old spouses either struggling with their pwBPD, watching their children (or step children) suffer, going through rough divorces and custody battles, etc.  Somebody started a thread where they asked if you had to do it over again, would you have married your pwBPD and the response was overwhelmingly negative.

You have been given a gift: You are aware of this disorder before getting married.  You have this forum to draw upon before you do anything long lasting.  Most of us were not given this gift and have had to make the best of it.  

Haha, you may be right.

But really, good sex does not alone make me happy. I can't believe I am saying this, but I'd much rather have the peace and security of a healthy relationship than fantastic sex.

[Meili]

Why not strive for both?

[anonymous_in_NV]

I am also new to the realm of BPD.  I can identify with the great sex.  But as I read through these forums, what happened to most everyone else also happened to me.  The sex stopped or in my case became almost like a duty or chore between us.  Something to think about.

[Notwendy]

I'm going to be really blunt here.

Someone who truly cares about you would be happy to see you achieve your dreams of being a doctor. She would miss you, but she would not hold you back, because love is wanting the best for the other person.

Pw BPD have a fear of abandonment. If she is willing to ask you to give up your dreams to relieve her own bad feelings, IMHO, she is capable of doing anything to keep you from leaving her. Anything. Think about it. The sex may be fantastic, but sex makes babies. I know you are pre-med and you know this, but KNOW this. She can stop taking the pill, put holes in a diaphragm, holes in your condoms. If you continue to have sex with her, at least buy your own, keep them away from her and use them but nothing is 100% effective except for not having sex.

Unless of course, you would rather be with her than go to medical school. In this case, be prepared to put that dream aside, or be prepared to do it with this relationship challenge.

Lets say you stay together and you go to medical school. Medical school and internship is demanding and stressful for even the most stable relationships. Long hours at school, studying, being on call at the hospital. It takes constant focus. So you have an exam the next day... .but she needs you. You are on call, but she needs you. You become a doctor and you have sick patients- but she needs you.

If a doctor chooses to be married, that spouse needs to be able to accept that their needs won't always come first. They need to not feel abandoned when that spouse has to stay late with a sick patient, or leave to see a sick person. Being a doctor is almost a certain set up for a pwBPD to feel abandoned. Imagine having to leave to see a patient when your gf is crying and needy.

I am certain there are doctors with BPD spouses/partners out there. Perhaps some of them can describe what it is like for them. Even strong marriages are stressed by a demanding career. Do you think you would be able to manage a relationship with this person and the road ahead of you?

Your future is ahead of you, and it is up to you to choose it. However, if you wish to get through medical school, internship, residency and have a practice, try to imagine doing this with what you know about her now.

Then there is self love. Do you want to be a doctor? Do you love yourself enough to act in your own best interest? How did it feel to give up applying? Relieved? Did you feel you let yourself down? Resentful? Your honest answer for yourself will tell you what direction to take.

[Infern0]

If it's worth saving, only you can decide.

However it CANNOT be saved with you having zero boundaries as you have demonstrated.

I recommend you focus on learning boundaries and figuring out why you don't have any (childhood)

If you repair that you'll be able to make a better judgement on your relationship.

[Notwendy]

Boundaries is something to consider, no matter what the outcome is with this relationship. If this relationship led you to postpone your goals, then this is something to think about. Although she influenced you, the idea of giving up something that you worked so hard to achieve is a form of giving up on yourself, diminishing your potential for somebody else.

It isn't unusual that someone is faced with making a compromise- such as considering the location for a new job, job hours- if someone has children, or a pressing family responsibility. However, giving up on our own core values- which are the core of our boundaries- is not being true to ourselves.

Just about any goal requires commitment. That goal could be an academic degree, running a marathon, losing weight. It is inevitable that there would be challenges- do you want to go to that party or study for that test? Making yourself get up and run when you don't want to. That dessert looks good. To achieve a goal, we need to stay focused.

Who loves you? Parents? siblings? friends? Think of a great friend. Does that friend want you to give up medical school to hang out with him/her- or do they encourage you to go for it? Did your parents want you to stay home with them, or to go to college to achieve your dreams even if they would miss you? I hope you can see that the people who love you want the best for you, even if it means they miss you. They care about you.

Now, ask yourself- can you be that loving friend to you? Want the best for you? Regardless of this relationship, becoming a doctor is a goal that requires making this goal a priority. If this is what you truly want, can you do this for you?

[sas1729]

Hi,

I was 27 when I was in the middle of a 2.5 year relationship with my ex, undiagnosed pwBPD. We were both students so at a similar stage of life, like what you describe in your case. Your story resonated with me because of the similar setup. Others have already written essentially what I want to say, but I feel it's important to reiterate. My own schooling was set back because of the emotional energy I poured into the relationship.

Again, I don't intend to tell you what is right or wrong in terms of deciding if it's worth it; however, based on my own experience, if I were in your position (with the benefit of having gone through something like that) I would say "no". I finally had to end it because my emotional energy had been sapped to nothing. I was a shell of myself. Like you I had learned to alter my behaviours and indeed my identity. I remember how, in the middle of it, I became very good at rationalizing away the pain.

If you decide against pursuing this relationship, you can take away a lot of knowledge and personal growth. At least, I did. I learned a lot about myself and gained self-confidence. It is not easy, but in my case it was necessary. I also learned that there are people out there who will respect me for who I am and value it. You clearly are a caring person, but think about why it is you return to a situation in which you know you can (and likely will be) hurt. Repeatedly. As my friend is fond of saying, "look at the data". The data does not lie. I realised that I had been returning because I enjoyed being the "white knight" when the times were good, and it was a validation that I used for myself. I had been using the relationship, just as my ex was using it as well.

Ultimately, it may be a difficult healing period, but you can come away with a deeper introspective knowledge.

[Meili]

To be fair, these relationships don't need to be as draining as they were when we all reach the point that we're searching online for answers and find this site.

Once we learn the to use the tools provided, things can get easier. When we start to care for ourselves with as much passion as we used to care for our pwBPD, the drain on our internal resources becomes far less. Communication that is healthy and boundaries reduce to potential for pain exponentially as we regain control over ourselves and our own lives.

While I would dispute that the data doesn't lie, I will point out that data can be manipulated to mean something different.  It can also be lacking or run through filters and produce inaccurate conclusions.

Just some food for thought.

[Notwendy]

I think it is true that our own boundaries contribute to how much someone else's behavior impacts us. Although the GF's behavior is concerning, a main concern for me was what the poster did- delay applying to medical school to appease her fears.

This is about boundaries. Her fears are her responsibility. It is good to be a caring person- one can comfort her, be empathetic, but when a person gives up something as important to them as their education and career goals- for the purpose of taking care of someone else's feelings, then there is a question of boundaries.

Relationships are different, and people make choices. Someone who is married with children might make a different decision than someone who is single and dating. An older person who has finished college can make different choices than a student. We are always making choices and considering other people, but to avoid making decisions that are damaging to us, we have to uphold boundaries on what is important to us.

Some students involved in demanding studies may not want to be in a serious relationship, because they would rather devote their time to studies. That is a legitimate choice.

Being a young, single person is an opportunity to focus on studies.

Getting to the point of applying to medical school is the result of a major investment- time, studies, extracurricular activities, very difficult classes, a rigorous MCAT exam. Literally years of hard work. Now, he is involved in a relationship that is likely to require his time and energy. When he takes his attention away from her to study, she fights and gets upset with him.

The OP basically said this:

She has been giving me space and hasn't really initiated contact and I appreciate that from her. But all I can think about is how peaceful life is right now without her. I still love her and miss her, but don't really want to get sucked into another fight.

 For the time being, I just want to focus on myself and getting into school, and just let the relationship be. Am I doing the right thing?

The right thing is doing what is needed to achieve his academic goals. If this is what he truly wants, then yes, this is the right thing, because for that goal to be achieved, he needs boundaries to protect it.

[Meili]

I don't dispute that at all! In fact, that goes right along with what I said (assuming that the post is directed to me since it immediately followed mine). 

Once we learn the to use the tools provided, things can get easier. When we start to care for ourselves with as much passion as we used to care for our pwBPD, the drain on our internal resources becomes far less. Communication that is healthy and boundaries reduce to potential for pain exponentially as we regain control over ourselves and our own lives.