I need help. About to break NC

[Hlinthewiking]

I made a few posts about my story previously in the forums, but to sum it up, I have been in a relationship with a BPD and we broke up a couple months ago, she broke up with me as threat against a boundary I came up with and then after I maintained she came to me 2 days after, but instead of asking me back she poked me about why I wasn't running after her, I explained I was doing it for us to have a healthier relationship, that I still loved her and I still wanted to be with her, she didn't understand of course and we stood "NC" for 7 weeks now. A couple days after we split she posted a new profile and a guy that was hitting on her for a while and she promised me was just a friend, commented on it saying "MY beautiful" (I couldn't get an accurate translation since English is not our language, but it implied possession a bit more, like in "you're mine now) with hearts and she replied with in love emotes and hearts, after that I got the worst breakdown of my life and made a post here along emergency therapy.

Recently I have been dating a nice girl who's far from Cluster B, she's just very anxious. A friend of hers posted a picture of her along with this girl I'm dating, another guy and myself, without my permission or the girl I'm dating. Right after that my exBPDgf unfriended me on Facebook which was actually the mildest reaction I expected, I didn't feel good when she did but I took it that it was best for the both of us, since I couldn't do it, at least she did, that was last week.

I have been having decent days and bad days, I always feel empty and it feels like my life is missing something, I don't have a thrill anymore and I haven't had good sex since we split up, I feel unsatisfied. This girl I'm dating is very nice but there are some things that trouble me, sex is one thing, but I feel that it could be corrected as we get more intimate. I haven't been seeing anyone else other then her, I have a hard time seeing more then one person, I feel obliged even though we aren't officially anything yet and I think she's talking to other guys. Yesterday and today I have been feeling exceptionally worse, I decided to check a dating app I was using before today and I found my exBPDgf in it... .

I'm having a hard time convincing myself not to talk to her, looks like my replacement didn't last, her lack of self esteem probably just took in anyone who chased after her. First emotion I felt and I'm still feeling a bit is anger, I just want to go ask what the heck she's doing there, wasn't she now "property" of my replacement? At the same time all I want is to hug her, it's weird that these feelings correlate to BPD's, I the only reason I don't say I hate her is because I know is just anger and that I actually love her, always, I wish my exBPDgf had this level awareness.

I know breaking NC would be bad, but I don't know how to go on like this anymore... .I feel like the rat in the cage with a pleasure button and a food button. Though my life feels empty and with lack of meaning, at the same time I was very unhealthy in the end of my relationship with my exBPDgf, I was worried about esophagus cancer from constant reflux and other digestive issues, that feels better now and I was able to sleep without sleeping pills for the first time this week in over a year.

I guess breaking NC gives her all the power, if she wants to hurt me, she has the power to destroy me without much effort. I know this all sounds very confusing... .but I'm confused I guess. I still want to talk to her, I just wanted her to know how I feel, she probably thinks I don't even care about her anymore.

[UnforgivenII]

If you need to break NC do it. It will be so horrific you will understand the reason why everybody keeps telling you not to do it.
Feeling sad is bad.
Feeling sad, humiliated and without dignity is worse.
If she wanted to contact you she would do it. Period.

I do hope you will not do it to yourself.

[VitaminC]

I feel like the rat in the cage with a pleasure button and a food button.

That's a pretty good image, Hlin. Most of us will relate to that poor rat. Now is the time to love that rat part of yourself and protect it from the electric shock it will get. The pleasure of giving in is short lived. The health of keeping yourself safe is the thing to stay focused on. 

Is there anything you can do to distract yourself until this passes? It will pass. I did journalling, swimming, running, cinema with friends or alone, talking with friends, looking over my lists of bad memories, reading and posting here, thinking about all the things I did not want to re-experience, making lists of things I did want for myself.

Though my life feels empty and with lack of meaning, at the same time I was very unhealthy in the end of my relationship with my exBPDgf, II still want to talk to her, I just wanted her to know how I feel, she probably thinks I don't even care about her anymore.

That's understandable. These feelings don't go away all in one whoosh. We get ups and downs, relapses, strong needs that seem stronger than us. You know it was unhealthy and caused you a lot of pain. You know how you feel, that is more important. We also know how you feel, because you've told us, and we've listened. A pwBPD does not listen the same way - they just can't.  It's counter-intuitive to accept that, but that's one of the things to work on.

Here's a thread on Acceptance that I found helpful :
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=72841.0#top

How are you now?

[Hlinthewiking]

Thanks for the support. I feel a bit more stable now, my feelings and desires remain the same however. It was a great point to bring up how BPD's react outside their own fabricated sense of "reality". I remember how I used to talk to her for hours, sometimes crying or get literally on my knees while telling her how much she meant to me and what I felt about her, it was like speaking to a wall, completely disconnected and ignoring everything but how she felt at that moment. But though this is a possibility I believe she has a good chance not reacting this way if I break NC. What is more likely to me is that she tries to manipulate me and make me feel bad for seeing other people and use me as a horse chasing a carrot on a fishing rod until I give up. We broke up once last year, it lasted 4 months and she did this, I begged her back for 2 weeks everyday and she made me wait a month or more to reach me and tell she was ready to come back.

I have been spending a lot of time with this girl I'm seeing, but yesterday was the first time where I felt that being with her actually risked distancing us. I was thinking too much about my exBPDgf and we went to have dinner on a restaurant where I have a lot of memories with my exBPDgf, I felt too silent and disconnected, I even apologized several times to her, but even though I tried to talk and live in the real world, I was unable. I don't know what I should do about that too, I like this girl, but sometimes I just can't be with anyone unless it's my exBPDgf, while at the same time my codependency tells me I can't be alone right now.

[Hlinthewiking]

If she wanted to contact you she would do it.

I'm not so sure about this. I believe it would trigger her fear of abandonment, she always had trouble initiating anything in our relationship, to the point she wouldn't even give me good morning unless I gave her first. The last time we spoke she told me she broke up because she couldn't do it anymore, that she was going to drop me off for good and that I was better of without her. I didn't reply to her, she told me to let her sleep and I didn't feel like there was anything I could say without taking hours that would change it, it was already after 3am and she was the one who wouldn't let me sleep while I told her we should talk better during the day, that's where I upset her.

[VitaminC]

I'm glad you're feeling more stable now, Hlin.

I remember how I used to talk to her for hours, sometimes crying or get literally on my knees while telling her how much she meant to me and what I felt about her, it was like speaking to a wall, completely disconnected and ignoring everything but how she felt at that moment.

But though this is a possibility I believe she has a good chance not reacting this way if I break NC. What is more likely to me is that she tries to manipulate me and make me feel bad for seeing other people and use me as a horse chasing a carrot on a fishing rod until I give up.

Remembering these things is very useful to you.

I was thinking too much about my exBPDgf and we went to have dinner on a restaurant where I have a lot of memories with my exBPDgf

Breaking these kinds of routines is really important. You need new restaurants, cafes, bars - wherever you go. For your own healing, and to be fair to your new partner.

I like this girl, but sometimes I just can't be with anyone unless it's my exBPDgf, while at the same time my codependency tells me I can't be alone right now.

How much of a problem is this for you? Can you say more about it?

[valet]

Maybe this is a big time bubble burst, but it doesn't sound like you are ready to date if you are already feeling anxiety about your new partner.

It might be a wise choice to take a step back on that front.

Either way, breaking NC only seems like a short term fix because you're not feeling validated by the new person.

How do you feel about being single a bit longer?

[Hlinthewiking]

Breaking these kinds of routines is really important. You need new restaurants, cafes, bars - wherever you go. For your own healing, and to be fair to your new partner.

I wish I could do this better, I'm trying and I definitely agree. The problem is that we used to go out a lot and it's hard to think of good places I haven't been with her before that are good in my city. I'm an athlete and I also have some dietary requirements that really lower my options.

I'v had awkward moments, since I'm usually a friendly person and I talk to servers a lot, some of them got to know us and called us by name when we went there, I went to some of these restaurants with other women and I had looks from them and I felt like they were thinking I was cheating on her or something. My exBPDgf and I were so close and usually it caught peoples attention on how much we loved each other. I even had a server coming to me once and asking how long we'v been together, I got depressed when he asked, but I didn't show it, because though things looks good from the outsiders point of view I was walking on egg shells and never knew if this night would be our last.

How much of a problem is this for you? Can you say more about it?

Probably the biggest... .I think of her too much and I have trouble letting go of her things. She left some clothes at my place, a snot tissue she forgot to put in the trash, the cup she was drinking Coke the last time we saw each other, what she wrote on my car's dirty windows, her hair on my hair brush... .I have been unable to put those things away. She used my sweater to sleep the last week we saw each other and I haven't washed it since because her smell is still in it. All though I can't get rid of those memories for good, they often linger unnoticed while I'm distracted or my life is going better, then when I start feeling bad they creep in...

Usually when I was with someone else, I realize I wind up doing some idealization at first and I have been controlling myself to access the reality and not what I idealize. Every time I'm with someone else, there is something missing, If the girl is nice to me it's a plus, but I have to be honest that sex and looks have been the biggest factors I haven't been satisfied so far.

When I met my exBPDgf I thought she was pretty, but it was dark, I couldn't see her that well, besides, I don't like to stare, it wasn't love at first sight. Every time I got closer to her she amazed me, it was wow after wow, it was like having an idealization and the reality surpassing even what you idealized. I'v always had trouble getting satisfaction during sex, my first girlfriend being NPD didn't help, along medication side effects that at the time gave me anorgasmia, even after I discontinued them I have difficulty climaxing. The first time my exBPDgf and I had sex it was the biggest wow, it felt like that was my actual first time having sex, I don't know what the other experiences were, but they were not it. I miss not having to concentrate so hard to climax, I miss that feeling where you can't control it anymore.

When I'm with the girl I'm dating atm, I'm going to call her "C" to make it easier, she seems like someone who I could have a long term healthy relationship and I do have feelings towards her, but they are not nearly as strong as my exBPDgf, I got no "wow up latter", sex could be worse, it's not bad, but it doesn't feel good enough and not often enough. I compare "C" too much to my exBPDgf and even though she has amazing qualities my exBPDgf doesn't have, they don't weigh as much to me as what she's lacking. In shorter terms, I guess I feel like "C" is boring, she's a good person and I like her, but I think like I can do better... Every time I get disappointed or sad I think about my exBPDgf, when I'm with someone, atm "C", I feel this way, that space within me that is reserved for someone gets completely filled out with memories of my exBPDgf and there is no space for anyone else... .

@valet
You may be right, but I don't know what to do. I told my therapist I needed to resolve my codependency before I could move on properly but he told me it would take time and the most important thing right now is to not come back to my exBPDgf and he said if I had to date or even start a new relationship to keep me away from my exBPDgf, I should and we would keep working on it. He started to intervene and take a more direct approach once he started to fear for my safety when I was with my exBPDgf.

I definitely know I'm not ready to start a "serious relationship" per se, I mean in a way everyone knows we are together and family is involved, but I was thinking about verbalizing monogamy and telling her that I'm not ready for the label yet, in case things improve.

[VitaminC]

Hlin,

what you describe is pretty much still the throes of heartbreak. Not being able to throw things away is a strong indicator. When I split from my ex-husband (this is not my BPD ex, not that it matters - loss and sadness are the same thing in the moment) I cherished his things; it was like they were invested with parts of him and to even put them out of sight felt disloyal and like I was kind of killing him or something. It was an extraordinary feeling; I remember it well. It's a sign of your attachment. But you don't need me to tell you that.

It's good you're tracking how you feel and respond to others when you are with them. That's one way to become aware of and get to know yourself. It's limited though, because they are specific feelings and reactions you are becoming aware of and these can only tell you so much and help you along so far.

This is really the time to use your brain to overcome your emotions - which you know yourself cannot be trusted in this instance and at this time, not when it comes to your ex.

I know it helped me to remember all kinds of things - and take care not to dwell on the longing for the sweet things - the feeling of being connected, because if I examined it a little more closely I could see clearly how the connection was only partial and there were so many doubts and bad feelings mixed up in there as well.

It helped me also that I started collecting things on my instagram account - pictures and screenshots of things that resonated for me. I was doing it for months and when I looked through them I was kind of horrified at how long I'd been feeling awful, confused, sad, lonely, unheard, unappreciated, angry, bereft. It didn't sort me out completely - ha, if only it were that easy - but it did help when I put it along all the other things: posting and reading here, letting myself feel things, keeping busy and distracted, and trying to stay firm in my decision because I knew that my mental health depended on it.

For myself - I knew I couldn't bear to be with anyone else. I knew that, if anything, it would increase my feeling of missing my BPD ex. I went on a sort of date dancing, with a friend who I didn't realise had designs on me - and somehow that evening precipitated such a rush of memories and sadness. There is a consideration of my own belief in being honest with people and not screwing with their heads (the way mine was screwed with) - so for that reason too I wouldn't consider being involved with someone else. I think the term for it is "taxi relationship", something like that. Not the way I really want to live, even if I could. I'll know when I'm ready.

I wonder what other small, practical little things you can do to manage the needs and feelings? Can you think of any? Sometimes we just need to feel sad and lonely and let ourselves feel those things. What happens when you feel like that? Are you able to let yourself feel kind of gently sad?

[Hlinthewiking]

I feel exactly the same thing, it's so good know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

My constant auto evaluation though is a good part of my self healing is demanding me everything I have, I'm already having financial issues and I'm having to sell investments just to survive, this month I'm not sure how I'll cover my bank debt. I don't know how to endure this while doing my day to day responsibilities.

Today I had the misfortune of forgetting that I hadn't stopped following my exBPDgf on Instagram and I had a pretty hard time having to conceal a panic attack in the middle of the gym. It wasn't even a picture of her, it was one of those image with phrases, something related to "looks don't mean anything in a relationship". The guy that replaced me and I though she was done with, since I know she's seeing or/and looking for other guys liked the picture. I think she's got him in a "colorful friendship" while he tries to convince her they should be in a relationship, she always liked being chased after.

I don't look for that on Instagram, but I have been listening to a lot of songs, they helped me and I realized sometimes listening wasn't enough, so I started to sing them, I have entertained some friends already with that. Last couple days I'v related to Lithium from Nirvana for the "... I miss you I'm not gonna crack, I love you I'm not gonna crack, I killed you I'm not gonna crack... " because I feel like I'm bursting inside, having to hold what I feel and I really want to go talk to her, but I don't.

I'v always had trouble with codependency, I remember feeling so alone since the middle of my adolescence. My father instead of helping me and participating more in my life would just mock me and say I was behaving like a hermit, my mother has her own issues and though she lived with me, wouldn't interact with me other then to criticize me. My escape valve at that time was online gaming, I remember I really wanted to prove to myself that I could be the best in something, so I decided I wanted to be the best on that game. After years playing I finally proved that to myself and quit overnight, which impressed my parents since they thought I was an addict. I'v always had to focus on something to not have to deal with my inner issues. After my first relationship I realized that when I was with someone else the pain went away and I was able to relax and actually live my life instead of running away from it. The only problem is that I'v fallen in love with Cluster C women only, my first girlfriend was NPD and she nearly destroyed my life, I only got over her fully when I met my exBPDgf.

So the only ways I found to manage my feelings was going to the gym and being with someone romantically, friends help, but if I'm bad it's like using a water bottle to put out a forest fire. I can distract myself by watching tv but that only makes the clock advance, it doesn't seem to solve the problems, it only postpones them.

When I feel like that it drains me completely, I can't do anything else, It takes my full focus, it feels like I'm not in this planet anymore, I'm disconnected and inside my own head shielding myself from my demons. Honestly it's hard, the only reason I don't panic is because I know I can always end my life if it comes to it and though I don't want to do it, I don't know how much longer I can take living like this, unfortunately financially too at this moment, I'm not productive by myself, I need to be in a relationship to live properly.

[Infern0]

Just going to add something simple here, breaking NC doesn't get them back they come back if they decide they want to and they won't be shy in asking if they decide they want something.

Trust me on this I've recycled several times and every time it was her breaking NC and wanting me back.

The times I've done it I got a disinterested response at best.

Basically breaking NC is pointless

[Hlinthewiking]

@Infern0

I understand what you mean, but I know my exBPDgf. She already contacted me telling me she wanted me back, I didn't show enough interest in her opinion. She did that when we were together, when we are apart it's even harsher, she thinks I don't care about her anymore and I don't want her back and she doesn't ask twice, it doesn't matter if it kills her.

She didn't even gave me good morning unless I did first when we were together, she never wants to take the initiative. Last time we broke up was similar, except the last time I broke up and this time she did but as an effort to make me chase her and to punish me for my boundary.

Last time we broke up she tried to contact me a couple times right after we broke up, then she did again a month later when she got mugged and got desperate, I was trying to keep distance and didn't support her as she expected. Another month after that I decided I couldn't take it anymore and I ran back to her desperately, she was surprised I did and was initially happy that I did, we saw each other once and she disappeared on me for a while, then we saw each other another day weeks later, she disappeared on me again and I started to beg her back everyday for around 2 weeks, she said she didn't want to have a relationship at the moment but we could still see each other from time to time, since she gave me no choice I said ok but I kept trying to talk to her everyday and asking her back, she got mad at me and said it wouldn't work out, we couldn't see each other that often, just once in a while, I still don't know what the heck was going on in her head back then. A month after that when I had almost given up hope our 1 year anniversary came up and I couldn't resist talking to her and saying something, I didn't even ask her back, I just needed to say what she meant to me, after that she came to talk to me a couple times as if nothing had happened and we were friends, the second time I was hopeless but I told her I still wanted her back, she said enough time had passed and we could try again now and down the rabbit hole I went again, for the first couple weeks it was paradise on earth, then hell broke loose and it got so bad I started to look for help, found out about her BPD and found these forums.

I will always be amazed at that on her, I remember she offered to feed me something she was eating in a restaurant and I declined. It was a good and romantic gesture and I simply was full and didn't give that much thought at the time, she told me she would never do it again and she never did, she made me regret it forever and that is just one example, she doesn't insist ever.

I'm definitely not sure if I talked to her she would take me back, but I'm sure she's not taking initiative again on me. As far as she knows I'v moved on and so should she, that's how she works, it's part of her anti-abandonment defense mechanism.

The last couple weeks I'v been thinking about that rat in the cage a lot and a thought that crossed my mind was whether the rat hitting the pleasure button and died had a better life then he would have by just eating and living in a cage anyway. A relationship with mutual love is more important to me then anything else, this was my dream since I was a kid, yeah, just like "Alfalfa".

[VitaminC]

... .this month I'm not sure how I'll cover my bank debt. I don't know how to endure this while doing my day to day responsibilities.

I know these kinds of stresses all too well, Hlin, and we're far from alone in this either. These kinds of direct existential threats used to make me feel very inadequate and hopeless, but now when I find myself in a bit of a pickle (to put it mildly, this month it's more of a pickle shop emporium), I try to see an opportunity.

By this I mean that whatever I can do to claw back some financial stability, I do with gusto. After every incremental move in the right direction I take a moment and say "look, you did this, by yourself, good for you, you're taking care of yourself". I try to see it as part of a bigger project of being the kind of person I myself admire - someone not afraid of a challenge, someone who gets on with it and takes things in stride, someone who can recognize the difference between things I can change and things I can't.  There are inspiring people all around us doing just that, and often quite cheerfully - I look for them and try to put my focus there, especially if I get a bit of "oh I can't believe I have this issue that I thought I put behind me in my 20s, dammit!"

I don't mean to make light of pressing financial worries, believe me. They can complicate an already complex and fragile mind-set and add to our sense of overwhelm in real way. But one thing at a time. This is a good time to try to become more methodical. That's my approach.

Today I had the misfortune of forgetting that I hadn't stopped following my exBPDgf on Instagram and I had a pretty hard time having to conceal a panic attack in the middle of the gym. 

Ok, that's hard, I know. These unexpected things can really knock us for six.  How did you deal with the panic attack? It's ok to have one and it's ok to take from it that you dealt with it. 

... .I have been listening to a lot of songs, they helped me and I realized sometimes listening wasn't enough, so I started to sing them, I have entertained some friends already with that.

That sounds really great! Does it feel good and right when you do that?

I've always had to focus on something to not have to deal with my inner issues. After my first relationship I realized that when I was with someone else the pain went away and I was able to relax and actually live my life instead of running away from it. 

This is the worst reason and way to be in a relationship, isn't it? I say this as someone who has had a similar tendency in the past. And only realised it recently, when talking here on this forum, in fact.

When there is no one else on whom to focus, then it's just me and my issues.  Just me is also great in some ways, but when things got tough recently (my own financial crisis), I realised I started thinking of my BPD ex again. I was trying to figure out why he was suddenly in my thoughts again and then it came to me out of the fog - it was because the one thing that makes me feel in danger is when I can't provide for myself, which makes me look at my whole life and re-consider all my choices and find myself lacking. It's a 'good' shortcut to my innermost feelings of failure.  And then I just want the huge distraction of someone else to make it go away.

Here too, I decided to go towards the discomfort. Instead of running away, I would walk right into it and wrestle or love it into a shape I understood a bit better and felt more capable of managing.

I heard a good interview with the actor Fiona Shaw where she talked about the only way to be on stage, to inhabit any role, to play any part, being to work from an inner feeling of discomfort. People I know who perform as either actors, musicians, or dancers often speak about this too - the nerves, the adrenalin, the sense of not being up to whatever they are going to do in front of lots of people in just a short while - and how they embrace that feeling and use it.   I'm applying this principle to my whole life.  Kind of like saying to myself: "If it's not scary, pff. If it's scary, I'm going to do it and give it my best".

So the only ways I found to manage my feelings was going to the gym and being with someone romantically, friends help, but if I'm bad it's like using a water bottle to put out a forest fire. I can distract myself by watching tv but that only makes the clock advance, it doesn't seem to solve the problems, it only postpones them.

Gym is a good way to manage your feelings. I found kick-boxing (for fun) excellent in the past and dancing is another short-cut; this one to feelings of bliss.
Being with friends is something I have had to work on at appreciating more fully, because the intensity does not compare to a romantic relationship. So a little re-calibration was in order here. I just thought more deeply about what I give and what I get from these other people in my life who make fewer demands and from whom I expect less.   

Watching tv might work, but I've found it more useful to make really deliberate choices about what I feed into my brain. Going to the cinema to watch something specific is much better than flicking through tv channels or surfing online.

When I feel like that it drains me completely, I can't do anything else, It takes my full focus, it feels like I'm not in this planet anymore, I'm disconnected and inside my own head shielding myself from my demons.

Have you always had this feeling or is this after your recent relationship?

Recognizing and being able to articulate what it's like for you is a really good thing.  Here is where you could practise some gentle breathing excercises. Simple meditation is something I've found really helpful. Focusing on the breath, on it's feeling around the nostrils, the sound of your own breathing, the feeling of the air filling your lungs, imagining it moving around inside your body and working its way out again.   Thinking that your body and your breath are precious and that you are doing this to take care of your body that moves your soul around the earth.

Honestly it's hard, the only reason I don't panic is because I know I can always end my life if it comes to it and though I don't want to do it, I don't know how much longer I can take living like this

Knowing that an escape is possible in every situation can be useful.  What you are talking about is the ultimate escape, the one from which there is no return. There are many many smaller escapes that we can use to balance ourselves.  You are working on some of them right now. You have seen yourself how the motion is not upwards or linearly straight ahead - but up and down and kind of squiggly back and forth.   It's like that for everyone to a degree.  If you track your own posts here, you will see, in general, progress, as I do when I look at yours and my own and that of many other members.   

Are you still in therapy, Hlin? What's your support network like now? Can you and do you talk to your friends about your deepest feelings? Do you feel a bit lighter when you do? If so, can you focus on that feeling and try to take it with you as you move through your days?

How are you?