Support update # 3

[whirlpoollife]

Not sure to post or not but I am. Maybe someone can learn from these experiences .
March 2015 after settlement of divorce ( took three years ) we had a support hearing that xh filed for. Got a new order from that, xh appealed it because he was going after spousal support from me and he didn't get it. So we went to a trial in the fall . Very expensive .  It took five months to hear of the new order.  He got spousal support from me and  he got a credit in child support .  There were motions for considerstions from both sides. Mine was for corrections his was he wanted more spousal support.  So another order came in June. He got more spousal support from me but on the child support , instead of a credit for him , he know owed child child support.  ( the spousal support I owe is from a one time inheritance) .
I just got done with another heating on support that xh had filed for.
I wasn't sure if his L was going to be there or not . I had asked my L if he knew, he didn't know . I decided to go alone, pro se. 
Turns out he did have have his L.
At the hearing , his L asked him questions .
Xh is unemployed , can't find work, has multiple ailments to not work , can't afford to pay child support on unemployment alone.
The L asked xh about the expenses he has for S.  Xh complaining he has to buy auto ins. And pay for all the auto parts for multiple vehicle s for S. Says he took son to get permit and license and etc. ( wrong I took son for permit)  Says I don't pay any expnses for kids (Lie)
Xh says the custody is 50/50. (Wrong it's 55/45).
During their presentation of this I kept quiet.  I wrote down what was incorrect .
When I had my turn to speak , xh kept interupting to the point his L told him to keep quiet and to let me speak.
I handed in my tax return of last year because it was required. Xh did not .   And I read my list of expenses for kids . Long list.  And I had proof if asked.
Xh had no proof of anything that he paid for. I pointed out that S has a good job and has been paying for all the vehicle parts . And purchasing the vehicles. 
As for income , from day one , ( three years ago) my income got imputed at 9/hr.
Xh doesn't have a job but a job he is looking at one that is 8 /hr , therefore , he is demanding that his imputed income be lowered to 8/ hr.  ( so he can receive c/s from me) Plus he wants 100 /month for the auto ins. for S.  This on top of the 300 /mo spousal support from me. 
I don't know when now a new order will be in. 
I don't care about the fricking c/s from him.  if there is none maybe he will stop .
I filed for divorce over four years ago and this continues still.  Again and again. 
But... .I have to look at the bright side... .I'm so glad I divorced him when I did.   

[Turkish]

At what point will the spousal support stop?  At least you can claim that on your taxes, right?  I was told to try and minimize CS and maximize SS, because the latter I could claim,  somewhat softening the blow. 

All in all,  it sounds like he's causing drama over a minimal difference, while the lawyers get the real money. 

[bravhart1]

How can he change spousal support after your divorce is final?

[ForeverDad]

Of course I don't know the rules in your state but I had understood that child support could be modified periodically but not alimony received.  Now if he was paying you alimony and his income had decreased, maybe he could ask for his payment to be reduced, but I wouldn't have thought he as recipient could ask that he get more.

[whirlpoollife]

The alimony is retroactive to prior to the final divorce.  On the money I received from inheritance, post filing divorce, but pre final divorce.   On taxes , it included a capital gain which then gave me more income than xh.    That's why they prolonged the divorce.   After divorce no more alimony.  The support hearing was two days after the final divorce. Then the trial , on support alone, then the appeals on the judge and support dept. decisions on the support. 
Yes , what I pay to xh is deducted on my taxes.  My L said not for me not to be quick to pay it off to xh because of that. But emotionally I have to look at it every week on my my paycheck.

[whirlpoollife]

The new is in but there is but there is 20 days for either side to appeal. 
Xh got the child support lowered by about $300.  My spousal support stayed the same as it could not be changed. They imputed his income to the same as mine which was imputed from the start.   He had wanted it lower.  But the spousal support I pay is income to him and that was taken into considerstion.  I'm sure he did not anticipate that it would be.
I claim the kids on my taxes.   
The spousal support I owe him ,should come back to me in the form child support , if he pays,
with a few dollars , littlerly , extra.  Almost break even. so there is no excuse for him not to pay the c/s . I'm paying him to pay me . 
My L wants to file for an appeal on account of the support dept imputed his income way to low.
I agree it is way to low for him.  Plus the fact the last order came from a judge just a few months ago and it's already changed. 

But... .I don't want to file for an appeal to once again go to  trail over this.  The cost will outweigh the child support.   Emotionally and financillay I just don't want it.
At  least I don't owe him more money.  And the spousal support he fought so hard for is to come back to me in the form of the child support. So there goes his monthly don't have to work check .
That's the way I look at , any thoughts are welcome.

A side note to add , on what I heard from an acquaintance... .
That he is saying that I am going to burn in hell for leaving him and breaking the family apart.
That D , at his place, just closes herself in her room and cries and cries over what I did to him and the family.  And he needs a day to tell this person about all the evil bad person I really am.  He has been to three physiotherapists just to try to cope
 ( there s more but you got the idea)
He never talked to this person in the past years.
He hasn't lived with me for four years.   Divorce has been finalized for a year and a half.
And  D doesn't cry when she is with me. She goes about her everyday teenage stuff. 

[david]

"The cost will outweigh the child support." I think that is a valid point to consider. Also, this way he will think he has won.

Since SS is deductible you are actually getting some more money. If you are in the 20% bracket and you are paying 300 in SS than you are getting 60 back in a tax refund or that much reduced in taxes owed.

Child support, in my state of Pa., is supposed to be reviewed every two years. The county actually sends a letter with a date to show up for a custody conference. Neither party has to file anything. It is automatic.

I went to equitable distribution. It was a 70/30 split in my favor. Ex's attorney and ex left the room to talk. My attorney said I could refuse and go to court. He felt confident I would get at least an 80/20 split. I looked at him and said it is going to cost about x amount of dollars to go to court and will take at least 8 to 10 months. Bottom line is that I will get an extra 3,000 to 4,000. I said that if we agreed today we would no longer be married tomorrow when the judge signs off on it. I figure that by itself was worth the money I would not get. The conference officer said I had a good outlook. We settled at the 70/30 split in another 10 minutes. The next step was we had to go to a bank which had an escrow account. I arrived around 15 minutes before ex arrived. I showed the bank person the agreement and asked her to cut the checks. The account had about 6 more dollars because of interest. I told the bank person to put that on ex's check so I could leave as soon as she arrived to sign the papers. Ex arrived and the bank person told her about the extra money. Ex ran out to her car to get a calculator to figure out how to split the extra money. The bank person explained I already decided to give ex the extra money. Ex started to make a scene because that was not what the court order stated. I looked at the bank person and asked for my check. She handed it to me, I said thank you, and walked out of the bank. As I was walking out the door ex was yelling at me because I was not following the court order. I got in my car and drove away as fast as I could. Thought that might make you smile since I suspect you understand.

[Nope]

"The cost will outweigh the child support." I think that is a valid point to consider. Also, this way he will think he has won.

The bank person explained I already decided to give ex the extra money. Ex started to make a scene because that was not what the court order stated. I looked at the bank person and asked for my check. She handed it to me, I said thank you, and walked out of the bank. As I was walking out the door ex was yelling at me because I was not following the court order. I got in my car and drove away as fast as I could. Thought that might make you smile since I suspect you understand.

Negative engagement is still engagement. As David's story clearly illustrates; like a fox caught in a trap, sometimes it's better to just gnaw your own leg off and hop on your way.

[Turkish]

David's example shows an aspect of a person with BPD traits,  and I've seen this with my ex on several occasions vis-a-vis she not knowing what to do when is obvious to me,  black and white thinking.

Despite all sorts of disordered behaviors to remain in control,  and pwBPD may be lacking the mature,  internal Adult voice (instead either "punative" Parent or Child, to speak in Transactional Analysis terms).  Common sense may be absent to make wise decisions,  so an external stabilizer can do just that.  Sometimes they really don't know what to do.  A court order,  for instance,  can take the ball out of their emotional court,  so to speak.  The trick on our sides is how to use this to our advantages. In most cases, however,  it's a boundary.

[whirlpoollife]

Thank you all for the replies, they help .
Turkish , when you talk of showing a boundary , if I do not appeal this new order am I letting my boundary slide then ?
My L sent me a reminder that the time will expire soon to request a de novo hearing on this.

[Turkish]

The cost will outweigh the child support.   Emotionally and financillay I just don't want it.

This seems the crux of it,  but you need to be OK with it in the long run if things are finalized as they are now. 

[ForeverDad]

What if you do not appeal but Ex does?  Would that mean he can contest the parts of the order he doesn't like but if only he contests or appeals then you can't contest?

[whirlpoollife]

Either one can contest the order. I haven't heard that xh is with just a couple days left to decide.  My L sent a reminder that I have to decide.

I can't believe the support dept let him get away with his new lower imputed income just because he said so. I can't believe that they were allowed to modify the judges order of just a couple  months ago.  Who's to say he doesn't ask for modification again in a couple months.
Who's to say that if I go to court again over this and another order is issued that he will just appeal that ? Or like the last trial ( not the modification hearing ) I had to defend myself there but left with owing him the retroactive spousal support , that it might be the same again? But with child support this time.
Xh is pushing the boundry but I feel helpless in that the local system lets him.
And I think too that lets say I do have a hearing on this. By the time it comes around , and the time to hear from it on the outcome , and the days allowed to contest that outcome , S will be done with school. Then there's just one child, then there's more modification.
I think I drained myself with my own thoughts here.
 

[livednlearned]

It sounds like your court stinks 

My L insisted I move into a neighboring county because the courts were considered more fair, and didn't indulge in frivolous law suits to the same degree. I have nothing to compare, though reading stories here, it does seem like our cases turn into nightmares when judges rule lowest common denominator (CYA) and let things slide over and over again.

Nevertheless, I understand the drained feelings, whirlpool. My judge issued a gatekeeping order and that thing did nothing but get my hopes up. Even in a court with a judge who ruled in my favor, my ex filed motion after motion until it was a blur. I became numb and figured it was going to be a form of tax I had to pay the rest of S15's teen years until he aged out of the system.

I keep thinking there must be some explanation for why court is so... .impotent... .with our cases. I cannot imagine how broken down I would feel if I had a crappy judge in addition to a high-conflict divorce in an adversarial court.