Did I just invalidate by stating my own feelings?

[Oncebitten]

I need to understand how my being upset about something can get turned around and result in me being disrespectful. 

Having a bit of a hard time, been very depressed the last couple of days, talked with my pwBPD about it.  Was very supportive initially offered an opinion as to what it was.  When I said that I didn't feel that was the issue it suddenly became a fight.  All old wounds were reopened and it became something entirely different than what we had started talking about.  Did I invalidate when I disagreed with the opinion offered?  Basically I was told that I was disrespectful and that I shouldn't ask for an opinion or advice because I don't listen and I don't take it.

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[Naughty Nibbler]

Whether you invalidated or not, would depend on how you disagreed.  You don't want to validate what's invalid.  Saying nothing can be an option.  Saying something like, "I can see how you might think _______, but I don't think it applies to me;  instead of just saying, "that's a bad idea", "you are wrong", etc.

Best to avoid debate, as it won't lead to anything good with a pwBPD.  When things begin to go bad, shut it down as tactfully as possible and redirect conversation to something else.  Maybe saying something like, "That's an interesting idea, perhaps I'll consider it", and then redirect the conversation or situation.

You may have already read this article, buy it could be helpful to reread it or read it for the first time:
AVOID CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS

Emotions run high during the holiday season.  Winter brings on "the blues" for some people (the weather where you live can factor into the equation).  When we feel down, it can be good to just have someone listen to us, but that might take someone without BPD traits (to give you some empathy).

What has worked for you in the past, to elevate your mood?  Participating in some sport, a scenic walk or run?  

[heartandwhole]

Hi Oncebitten,

I think it's tough, especially when we are feeling down, to be a good validator. We want to be authentic—to be ourselves—and we want to feel heard and understood. Sometimes our partners just can't do that, and sometimes we can't, either. We are not superhuman, we are people doing the best we can.  

Stating a different opinion or disagreeing with a stated one is not necessarily invalidating in my book, but many people (with and without BPD) might receive that as a "rejection," and react accordingly.

Have you seen this article? I refer to it often when I want to wrap my head around validation. And I need to remind myself often!

Communication Skills: Don't Be Invalidating

If you feel comfortable sharing the convo here, I'm sure members will have ideas of possible alternative reactions. But again, you are human and can't always be the perfect validator—even if you could, it wouldn't guarantee that pwBPD wouldn't receive your words in a negative way.

Go easy on yourself. Be authentic and validate what you can. It might look like, "Thanks for telling me what you think. I'm going to give that some thought. I can tell you that care, and that feels good."  Or something else. It sounds like her intentions were to help. Could you validate that?

heartandwhole

[Notwendy]

That experience is uncomfortable. It has happened to me as well.

If we consider that pwBPD have poor boundaries- hard to tell where they end and where you begin, and also have a hard time managing their own uncomfortable feelings- what is the possible result of us approaching them to share/explain our own feeling down?

For me, I have not seen this work very well. If I am emotionally distressed around my H, he tends to be emotionally distressed as well. He tells me that it upsets him to see me upset or sad. I get that this is because he does care about me. But then, his response is to stop it- because it makes him feel bad- tell me what to do, and if I say something like you said, he gets angry. My mother is severely BPD and expressing uncomfortable emotions around her is likely to trigger her into a rage. She can not handle that.

If I truly need to share some difficult emotions, I speak to a counselor or my co-dependency 12 step sponsor. They have the skills to get me to see what is going on- and what steps to take to take care of that. Approaching my H on that level is asking him to do something he isn't skilled at doing with me. This doesn't mean he is a bad person, not caring, or isn't able to be of support in some situations, but expecting someone who has trouble seeing me have bad feelings to stay calm and supportive is asking too much.

Someone who has difficulty modulating their emotions feels more stable in the presence of someone who can stay calm and steady in the face of their bad feelings. If we are feeling out of sorts emotionally, we can not be that person. Neither can they be that person to us. This doesn't meant a relationship isn't good in other areas.

You didn't invalidate. Your expression of your sad feelings may have been overwhelming to her.

OB, depression is tough. Please seek out a professional who can support you through this. It's a form of self care.

[Oncebitten]

Heartandwhole


well the convo was something like this... .she asked my opinion on something I gave it... .she said ok, then said I always felt like this.  So I asked a question of a personal nature, about my situation.  She gave me her opinion, I asked multiple follow up questions, because I didn't understand.  I
She feels I dont respect her bc I didn't just listen I argued instead.

[hergestridge]

Heartandwhole


well the convo was something like this... .she asked my opinion on something I gave it... .she said ok, then said I always felt like this.  So I asked a question of a personal nature, about my situation.  She gave me her opinion, I asked multiple follow up questions, because I didn't understand.  I
She feels I dont respect her bc I didn't just listen I argued instead.

I can ser she point of view. She was asked for her opinion and ended up having to explain herself. If I get obscure advice I think it's better to handle that by yourself than to responf with questions. I had this situation the other day. I stated I couldn't stand a certain type of food and I was asked repeatedly to be more specific. She didn't like my answer and - as I saw it - did her best to shoot me down.

[heartandwhole]

Heartandwhole


well the convo was something like this... .she asked my opinion on something I gave it... .she said ok, then said I always felt like this.  So I asked a question of a personal nature, about my situation.  She gave me her opinion, I asked multiple follow up questions, because I didn't understand.  I
She feels I dont respect her bc I didn't just listen I argued instead.

Yes, this is how it can go, Once, and I know it's not easy to deal with.    Something very similar happened not long ago to me with a dear friend of mine. In my case, his reactions appeared to me like he felt attacked by my questions (for clarification), no matter how gently and non-aggressively I thought I was asking them.    I apologized the next day because it made sense to me that he may have felt upset by my communication style.

We can't always get it right, but we can try to see through another person's eyes, and validate that. The goal as I see it is to empathize with integrity. We don't want to throw ourselves away while trying to keep someone else close.

If you had the convo today, how do you think you would handle it?

heartandwhole

[Oncebitten]

Heartandwhole

I have read what you and others have said and realize I was being invalidating.  I guess I wish (too much I know) that she would realize that I am not attacking her, that just because I ask a question does not mean I don't respect her opinion, it really is just my nature.  My mind works in such a way, your answer will most likely lead to more questions, good or bad its just how I am.  I need to be better at validating her feelings and I know that.