Someone please translate this (a vent)

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I hadn't spoken to BPD mother in a while so I received a text "please call, I have questions"

Note : the "I have questions is the typical message. It doesn't mean she has actual questions. It also doesn't mean that the topic she may have questions about is the actual one she has questions about.

So I call her and her first response is to tell me how much pain she is in. This also is a usual response. I know she had a good day yesterday as someone had told me and sent pictures and she looked good. But today, may be different. So I listen to her discuss her complaints about the medical providers.

Then she says she has some questions but she can't talk about them now and wants to call me later to ask them. ( also typical when she doesn't really have questions).

So then the "hook" - the statement that gets a response from me. Usually it's an "I have something you want" and then seeing if I want it and then witholding it.

"I got a notice from Social Security but I can't read it now to you".

I took the bait.
I asked her (nicely) to please keep it in a safe place so that one of her assistants can send me a copy (she needs it for tax records. She "lost" hers last year and I can't access her social security information)

Her reply is that she can't hear me.
I repeat- it's needed for tax records.
She says she can't understand me.
I repeat "tax" several times.
She says she didn't understand.

She seems to understand everything else I say to her on the phone except for this (she somehow decides she can't hear something but somehoe hears everything else)  She then says she will call me later  and ends the phone call.

I'm frustrated at this point but I remained composed with her and call back and say "I can't answer questions if you doesn't understand so could she please call me when there's someone else with her to help explain if you can't hear me"

She understood that and said "well you don't know what questions I want to ask you". I reply " I can't answer any questions if you can't hear me on the phone so please call me when someone can help".

So then she says "well then I won't ask you any questions" and repeating this a few times, hangs up the phone.

I didn't lose my cool with her and spoke calmly the whole time but at this point, I was frustrated. I blocked her. I don't see the point in these conversations.

I can't make any sense from this!

[Notwendy]

I hadn't spoken to BPD mother in a while so I received a text "please call, I have questions"

Note : the "I have questions is the typical message. It doesn't mean she has actual questions. It also doesn't mean that the topic she may have questions about is the actual one she has questions about.

So I call her and her first response is to tell me how much pain she is in. This also is a usual response. I know she had a good day yesterday as someone had told me and sent pictures and she looked good. But today, may be different. So I listen to her discuss her complaints about the medical providers.

Then she says she has some questions but she can't talk about them now and wants to call me later to ask them. ( also typical when she doesn't really have questions).

So then the "hook" - the statement that gets a response from me. Usually it's an "I have something you want" and then seeing if I want it and then witholding it.

"I got a notice from Social Security but I can't read it now to you".

I took the bait.
I asked her (nicely) to please keep it in a safe place so that one of her assistants can send me a copy (she needs it for tax records. She "lost" hers last year and I can't access her social security information)

Her reply is that she can't hear me.
I repeat- it's needed for tax records.
She says she can't understand me.
I repeat "tax" several times.
She says she didn't understand.

She seems to understand everything else I say to her on the phone except for this (she somehow decides she can't hear something but somehoe hears everything else)  She then says she will call me later  and ends the phone call.

I'm frustrated at this point but I remained composed with her and call back and say "I can't answer questions if you doesn't understand so could she please call me when there's someone else with her to help explain if you can't hear me"

She understood that and said "well you don't know what questions I want to ask you". I reply " I can't answer any questions if you can't hear me on the phone so please call me when someone can help".

So then she says "well then I won't ask you any questions" and repeating this a few times, hangs up the phone.

I didn't lose my cool with her and spoke calmly the whole time but at this point, I was frustrated. I blocked her. I don't see the point in these conversations.

I can't make any sense from this!

[zachira]

It is really impossible to know what your mother wants with all the passive aggressive communication. My guess which could be completely wrong is she knows that you are concerned about her finances, so this is another way to annoy you and unload how badly she is feeling inside at the moment. Hopefully she does not have the power to do what my disordered aunt did which was to not pay any taxes for the last few years and hire a lawyer to defend herself against her children who were asking to take over her finances because of all the mismanagement.

[Notwendy]

No thank goodness she can't do that. When we moved her to assisted living, her accountant got her up to date on her taxes. I have kept careful documentation of anything I have sent money from her account to- it's all for her expenses. I haven't tried to take over her finances- I have consulted a lawyer about this if it were something that needed to be done, and it isn't applicable here.

I think it's part of how she interacts to set up something to discuss and then to not follow through with it. Maybe drama is how she interacts. It's possible there weren't any questions and she just didn't like that I took that seriously. Who knows.

So maybe she feels she has some kind of power to have info and not share it with me. Hard to know.

[CC43]

Hi Notwendy,

Well your mom is complex, so she could have multiple agendas.  First is to get your attention, even if it's negative attention.  Second might be to control you and get you to do what she wants at that particular moment.

I thought I'd add some insight given some similar roundabout discussions with my husband regarding finances.  Oftentimes, he will completely shut down, sort of like your mom.  Let's say I show him a record of bills for the last six months.  At first he'll refuse to look at it.  Then he'll accuse me of doctoring the records.  Then he might say something like, "I don't know where that came from."  It sounds similar to your mom saying, "I can't hear you."

I think she can hear you just fine.  In fact, I think she understands exactly what the paperwork is; she is just feigning ignorance.  Taxes are something that she doesn't want to deal with--because it means she has to make some payments for something she doesn't want to pay.  She's having an infantile response, akin to believing that if she covers her ears, she won't have to hear about the problem, and if she doesn't hear about it, she doesn't have to deal with it, and it will magically go away.  Maybe she thinks if she's stubborn enough, you'll step in and fix her problem for her.  Unfortunately, my husband has pulled this tactic more than once.  He knows perfectly well what the issue is.  It's just he dislikes taxes (who doesn't?), he's in denial, and he hopes that I'll take full responsibility, so he doesn't have to make any payments or sacrifices himself.  I'll note that he's not always like that, but when it comes to taxes, he does tend to use these childish denial tactics.  My solution to this problem was to pay for an accountant (historically, I had generally filed taxes myself).  That way, it's the professional accountant saying that we need to pay $x, not me.  And the accountant won't accept delay tactics--if he doesn't get the information by such-and-such date, then the filing won't get done on time.  I basically had to extract myself from the discussion and put an expert, neutral party between us.  That has diminished the roundabout discussions significantly, and I think it's worth every penny (just to keep the peace between us).  Is it ideal?  No.  But I had to adjust to find a solution that worked for me.

Just my two cents.

[Notwendy]

I think you have a good point about her avoiding the topic. I know she can hear me because she hears the other parts of the conversation. She also feigns being unaware or not understanding.

She isn't able to manage online banking and I do that for her. On one hand, my access has helped her but I think she also resents that I have it. She seems to prefer to take advice from people who aren't as close to her from but I think she has some sense that her money is only safe with close family members, but also BPD affects the closest relationships the most.

So maybe this is her way of expressing her frustration at this. She wants to be in control. I legally can not keep her money from her- it's her money but I do remind her that she has certain bills to be paid and assist with them being paid from her account.

She says "I don't spend any money on myself". Every penny that comes out of her account is for her and she's drained it except for some monthly income that goes to her expenses. I think since these bills come directly from her account she sees this as money she doesn't have for her own spending.

Your point about making it between the accountant is good and I was planning on doing that.

[Methuen]

NW,

I'm holding my head in my hands after reading your post.  This is the kind of thing that just grates and grinds our insides and well being.  It's back to Oz.

Some of the similarities (not all) between our mothers are just shocking.

Your mom: "please call, I have questions"
My Mom: "Call me now", or "could you call me" (not really a question)

Start of conversation Your Mom:  how much pain she is in
Start of conversation My mom:  how much pain she is in, or, how hard it is to be almost  blind (which she brought on herself by refusing home service to put her eye drops in since she has Parkinson's and can't get the drops in herself...she refused this service for 3 years insisting she was getting it in!)

Your mom: complaints about her medical providers
My mom: complaints about her home care providers or doctors (now that she's nearly blind, she is getting home care to put the drops in - against her will...)

Relationship with your mom: task oriented (this time about social security)
Relationship with my mom: also always task oriented (things to do for her)

Your mom: "she has questions but can't talk to you now and will call back"
My mom:  I am unavailable to mom (because I am at work).  If she "needs" something that home care can't do, she texts my H.

Aside: when I stopped being mom's "caretaker" (which you are acting as) and returned to work, her focus for attention and having her needs met, immediately shifted from me to my H.  Including the stupid texts nobody needs to know, like reporting on who did her toenail care that day. Instead of being a "paradigm shift" in thinking, it was a complete "person shift".  She focussed on him instead of me.  The information I got from that, was that she was never bonded or "attached" to me.  It wasn't a loss for her. She was simply angry that I was unavailable to meet all her needs. The only thing that mattered was that someone was "taking care of her".  It's not a loss for me that mom never emotionally attached to me (I got that from dad and other family members and friends), it's actually been helpful because it explains a lot.  She just never had the capacity to become emotionally attached to anyone.  Any connection to her by anyone is based on them doing things for her, including her friends.  My only purpose as a daughter was to "do things for her". 

So back to your mom.

""I got a notice from Social Security but I can't read it now to you""

The pattern here is about getting you to call her.  It seems like this happens somewhat regularly.

So what is really behind this behavior?  Clearly she doesn't want your advice because she doesn't follow it.  So is she lonely?  Afraid/fearful?  Because you know it's probably not about whatever she says it is about, but is simply the hook to get your attention.  It's about some underlying emotion.  Usually fear (with BPD).

Agreed that she can also hear you although she says she can't (because she hears everything else).

Control.  Control.  Control. 

I remained composed with her and call back and say "I can't answer questions if you doesn't understand so could she please call me when there's someone else with her to help explain if you can't hear me"

She understood that and said "well you don't know what questions I want to ask you". I reply " I can't answer any questions if you can't hear me on the phone so please call me when someone can help".

So then she says "well then I won't ask you any questions" and repeating this a few times, hangs up the phone.

Yep.  Sounds like something my mom would do. Especially the "well then I won't ask any questions" part.  Ha!  Let's see how long she can follow that through...  Maybe you will get some peace for a while.

She wanted you to call her again. 

You didn't play by her rules.  You said to call you when she had someone with her.  That's not what she wanted.  She doesn't actually want help with the problem.  In fact it's even plausible there was no notice from Social Security.  Or maybe there was and she's anxious about it, so she's finding a way to project that anxiety onto you and distract herself.  At the end of the day, this isn't your problem to solve.  If it really is about her social security, and she wanted help, she wouldn't be pretending she can't hear you. What is the risk if you do nothing?  She has been deemed to have the capacity to make her own decisions.  Our challenge is to let them have the control they so badly crave, and let them experience natural consequences.  My mom choose not to get help with her eye drops, so she went blind. Nobody could prevent it because she had "capacity" to make her own decisions.  Perhaps your mom will either show you the notice or read it to you when she is more ready.  Right now she is just playing games and succeeding at drawing you into her craziness.  Maybe don't go to Oz with her?

What has helped me beyond measure, is not being available to my mom.  And while my H does do her grocery shop and take her to appointments, your mom actually lives in a facility where meals and help and medical advice is available should she choose to accept it.  If she doesn't accept it, that's on her.  This includes asking one of the care workers about the social security notice.  And then reading it to you on the phone. 

There is no logical reason why she wouldn't read it to you on the phone if there is a problem to solve. If there is a problem, and she has shame or fear, then she still needs to tell you what the notice says, or you can't help.  Full stop.

I think how you handled this was perfect.  She said she couldn't hear.  So you told her to call back when someone was with her.  It's a logical solution.  The fact that she hung up suggests she doesn't really want the help with her social assistance.  It could be bait and switch.  Or it could be some underlying fear she has about her finances, or something else. 

But if she won't talk to you when you are available, there is nothing else for you to do.

 If you keep trying to "make sense" of her behavior, you are going to frustrate yourself, and it's going to bring a lot of negative energy into your life.

Just trust that if there's really a problem, she will read it to you.  If she chooses not to, that's on her.  It's even possible there is no problem.  My very first T once told me that if there is no ongoing crisis, they have to create one.  Being without an emotional crisis is uncomfortable for them.  I've never forgotten that. 

Maybe an epsom salt bath tonight?  And whatever other self-care feels good and helps.
 

[Methuen]

And yes, getting an accountant involved in her financial management is a train ticket to well being for you.  That would give you some distance from her spending and financial issues.  You wouldn't need to be "available" to return her phone calls.

Then she might just have to replace the calls with some other "hook", but at least you don't have to be responsible to address the financial pieces (which are a big headache for you)

[Notwendy]

Thanks Methuen. Yes, our mothers are alike in many ways. With my mother- the only relationship with her is to serve her needs. If someone doesn't do that, they aren't of use to her. The other way to relate to her is through drama and games. It seems she can not help herself- this is how she relates. Conversations aren't straighforward- it's like smoke and mirrors. Perhaps that was the contact she wanted- for me to call her and interact like that because that is contact to her.

She paradoxially is helpless and dependent while at the same time wants to be in control. I don't do direct hands on care or errands for her. From a distance, it's management type assistance. She tries to be in control and then makes a mess of things. I have backed off and it becomes a mess. It's better to stay on top of the situations than to let them go and have to fix them. Although I do think natural consequences are the best lessons, in this situation, it's true inability. She's both high functioning socially and low functioning in day to day tasks. This is long standing. The family pattern has been to do things for her but let her act as if she did them.

She's also at an age where she does need assistance keeping up with tasks. When my mother in law needed this kind of help- she turned her checkbook over to her daughter- my sister in law- who lived nearby. The daughter did things for her like your H does- get groceries, help her pay bills, but without the drama. 

I have decreased phone contact with her. Part of the conflict, I think, is because I am goal oriented. I know the calls are task oriented- what does she want me to do for her and so I try to get to the point. I think for her, the goal is the interaction and the drama is the emotional component. So yes, I want the info on that document from social security but that becomes something she can have drama with. Drama may be her way of being in contact, and since I don't choose complete NC, just going along with it on occasion (without enabling) may be the way to do this.