Trying to diagnose/figure out how to maintain relationship w potential BPD bro

[Healthnut4]

Hi all. I'm new here and not sure how this works. Hopefully I'll get some feedback. Anyway, my brother and I have had a rocky relationship for years. We are close in the sense that we see each other a lot at my parents and try to hang out regularly, but our relationship has always been filled with intense emotions.

He was diagnosed w ADHD as a child, but has always been rather explosive w his emotions. The smallest things set him off (I.e. Not being able to find pieces of clothing would causes screaming and blaming my mom etc throwing fits). He's gotten physical w my father(definitely instigated by my brother not dad - parents were never abusive and nothing traumatic ever happened in our lives). He's punched holes in our wall/door growing up, ran away, threatened to jump off a roof and actually slipped and injured himself, the List is long. I remember being so scared a lot of my childhood when he would fight w my parents - they videoed it some times for the counselor it was so intense sometimes I thought he was going to actually kill my dad. We threatened to call the cops many times , never really did (enabling I know). He would break things that were sentimental to my mom growing up when he would get angry. Lots of tears and heartache growing up.

He's very in to how he looks spends lots of time getting ready, lot of time in the gym. Is very set off by any change in plans or just in general of things aren't his way. He manipulates my parents - comes over and does nothing at their house just expects everyone else to do everything for him including look after his kids when we are all there. And no one except me will ever call him out bc they are too afraid to set him off. When I do call him out it sets him off - he became physical w me a few years ago after I did call him out pushing me and hitting me in the face. I had enough of walking on eggshells.

Anyway he won't get help. Sister in law has threatened to leave several times w ultimatum if he doesn't get help. He went to two sessions and told the counselor he was only there bc his wife made him go.

My question is. Do you think maybe he has a touch of borderline ?  I've thought this for years. But he doesn't consistently show these symptoms. Sometimes he can be the most fun person and other times when he is set off he is so horrible to be around. He is always very loud and likes to be heard- if u interrupt him he freaks but he will Interrupt u for any reason.

Second question - what are the best ways of dealing w this sort of person?  He always says he wishes we had a better relationship but it's hard to be close

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Healthnut4:   
Welcome to the Community!
I'm sorry to hear that you are having problems with your brother. My father had BPD traits and I think he had a few ADD traits as well. My father wasn't physically abusive, but he had a horrible temper.  He was very critical and angry and he used to use "The Silent Treatment".

My question is. Do you think maybe he has a touch of borderline ?  I've thought this for years. But he doesn't consistently show these symptoms. Sometimes he can be the most fun person and other times when he is set off he is so horrible to be around. He is always very loud and likes to be heard- if u interrupt him he freaks but he will Interrupt u for any reason.   

Sounds like he has some BPD traits.  BPD generally doesn't stand alone.  People who end up with an official diagnosis, generally have other mental health issues. ADD/ADHD is one problem that can combine with BPD. Whether your brother has BPD, or just some traits, you can approach the situation in the same way.  You can't change him, but by changing the way you interact with him and react to him can make things easier for you and your relationship.

I think the loudness can be an ADD trait.  Although people with ADD can be loud, they can, also, have sensitivity to other people's noise (can't filter out noise, so as to concentrate).  I have a few ADD traits and I tend to be a loud talker.  I try to keep it in check, but it's easy for a loud talker to be oblivious to it.  Sometimes, a person with ADD might have a problem when they are interrupted, because they can easily lose their train of thought (sometimes, that can be a good thing for you, if he is on a rant).  His interrupting has to be annoying and rude, but a person with ADD may try to get their thought in before they forget it. (and people with ADD can be rather spontaneous)

     He was diagnosed w ADHD as a child, but has always been rather explosive w his emotions. The smallest things set him off (I.e. Not being able to find pieces of clothing would causes screaming and blaming my mom etc throwing fits).

Has he ever received treatment or coaching for ADD/ADHD?  Has he ever been able to manage it effectively for any notable length of time?

He manipulates my parents - comes over and does nothing at their house just expects everyone else to do everything for him including look after his kids when we are all there. And no one except me will ever call him out bc they are too afraid to set him off. When I do call him out it sets him off - he became physical w me a few years ago after I did call him out pushing me and hitting me in the face.

Second question - what are the best ways of dealing w this sort of person?  He always says he wishes we had a better relationship but it's hard to be close     

Learning certain communication skills and setting boundaries should help.  A communication skill that can be helpful is SET.  The info. at the link below should be helpful

SET (Support, Empathy and Truth)

Anyway he won't get help. Sister in law has threatened to leave several times w ultimatum if he doesn't get help. He went to two sessions and told the counselor he was only there bc his wife made him go.   

Counseling generally doesn't help, if a person doesn't want to participate.  I'm wondering if he might accept some counseling if it were presented to him as coaching for ADD/ADHD? 

You might want to check out the website at the link below.  The website owner has ADHD, and has some helpful strategy to share.  You can subscribe to his podcasts, where they share techniques/strategy to help tame an ADHD brain.  I've started listening to the Podcasts.  People without ADD/ADHD listen to the podcasts, as the information is helpful for normal people managing life with too much technology and distraction.

FASTER THAN NORMAL

There is a large green band at the top of this page, with a "Tools Menu".  If you go there, you will find links to some helpful lessons.  The lessons on Validation and Boundaries are good skills to start with. There is a link to a Workshop Section, where you can browse through a list of workshops.  There is, also, a "Lessons" section at the top of the threads.

Check out the lessons on SET, Validation and Boundaries. It could be helpful if you could get your parent on board to join forces to learn and implement some skills and boundaries. Come back and let us know what you think.  Some people find it helpful to post about implementing the skills.  It can take some practice, so checking your understanding and sharing as you learn can be beneficial.

Best wishes.

[Healthnut4]

Wow!  thank you so much for your reply.  It is very helpful, even to just know there is someone out there who has been through similar situations!

Also helpful to think of the loudness and interrupting as a trait of his ADHD, helps it become more manageable to me rather than just thinking ugh he's loud and arrogant! 

As far as managing ADHD, he used to take ritalin as a child, and we could ALWAYS tell when he didn't take it.  As an adult, he'd taken Straterra, but said he didn't like how it made him feel so stopped.

I definitely need to work on how I communicate with him.  I tend to always think he has the worst intentions - i.e. when I want to plan something with my parents and he can't go, he will make it seem like the worst idea, talk about how dumb it's going to be, put it down etc... .if it's not his idea it's the worst idea.  So I always tend to either jump back at him or accuse him of trying to sabotage our trip.  I know I don't handle him the right way.

He's always been very jealous of me, he often has called himself the black sheep of the family and I think bc i do not have this volatile relationship with them, he envies that.  Also envies my success ( I FEEL), even though he is very successful in his own right.  Example, never once asked me about my new house we bought or even said congrats when we moved in, never asked to help move... .in fact it took me 2 months to get him over to even see our house, all the while I was so nervous to have him there bc I knew he was jealous and I didn't want to upset him. 

Bottom line, if he's not going to receive any counseling or help, then I need to become more aware of how I can act to make him less volatile.  However I doubt there is a really good answer to this question.  I will definitely look at SET that you recommended!  I've read most of Walking on Eggshells - lent it to my SIL while she was in the midst of a relationship crisis with him and never got it back.   If you have any more advice or books to read, any and all would be greatly appreciated!  Sometimes I think maintaining a good relationship unfortunately means it has to be a little less close- less is more with him.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi again Healthnut4:   
You have taken a big step to join this community and learn about BPD. Perhaps, one way for you and your brother to get closer is for you to gain a better perspective about his personal issues with ADHD.  Although your current concern is about BPD traits, it would likely be safer to broach the subject of ADHD with him.

As an adult, he'd taken Straterra, but said he didn't like how it made him feel so he stopped.

Some people with ADHD never take meds and rely heavily on learning management and coping strategies.  Is it possible that your brother relied mainly on meds in the past, to manage his ADHD?  Perhaps, he hasn't adequately learned ADHD management and coping skills?

I tend to think that when some people have a problem with ADD/ADHD, depression or anxiety, and the problem isn't managed well, the BPD traits can surface. I'm thinking it can be a slippery slope. As time passes, without healthy management/coping skills, BPD behaviors can evolve and escalate.  Most of us exhibit a BPD behavior from time to time.  When more of the behaviors show up, with consistency, then the behaviors can lead to a diagnosis of BPD.

People without mental illness many times have a hard time identifying with someone else's "normal".  "You don't know, what you don't know", became a popular phrase after 9/ll, in regard to defense/military issues. The saying can apply to trying to understand about mental illness.  Most people can identify with brief episodes of stress or depression.  But, for people with a major problem, it can be a daily struggle to try and keep things together (i.e. ADHD behavior, anxiety, depression or BPD).

Perhaps, you could take a little time to learn or brush up on ADHD.  Maybe part of improving your relationship with your brother is to gain his prospective on how life is for him with ADHD?  How was it for him, while he was in school?  How did the meds help him then?  What were the side effects that caused him to stop taking the medication?

Sometimes I think maintaining a good relationship unfortunately means it has to be a little less close- less is more with him. He always says he wishes we had a better relationship but it's hard to be close   

Perhaps after you take some time to gain some skills and enhance your understanding, you might want to approach your brother regarding his wish to have a better relationship with you.  Choose a situation, where it might be easier for you to talk. Perhaps you go on a hike, or attend a sporting event together.  It can be easier to have a heart to heart talk with someone when you are walking together or riding in a vehicle, with just the two of you.  I'm sure there is some activity you can share with your brother, that can present a bonding opportunity.  Perhaps, just inquiring about his struggles with ADHD, and offering a listening ear (without judgement), can help open the door to a better relationship.  It's never going to be perfect, but things can improve and you can employ strategies to shield yourself from BPD behaviors/traits. 

The link below will take you to an online magazine for ADHD suffers and their family.  The specific link leads to a slideshow on hypersensitivity.  You might want to check it out and then continue to explore the resources on that website.
ADDitude (Inside the ADHD Mind)

It could, also, be helpful for you to read some posts from the ADD/ADHD forum at Psychcentral. It can give you a perspective from those with ADD/ADHD and from their family/friends.
Psychcentral ADD/ADHD Forum

Bottom line, if he's not going to receive any counseling or help, then I need to become more aware of how I can act to make him less volatile.  However I doubt there is a really good answer to this question.   

You have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain, if you learn some skills to enhance your emotional intelligence.  The communication skills will help you in your work life and with friends and family.  You can choose to not escalate things with your brother.  He may be wrong, and emotionally immature, in his behavior, but you can choose to NOT engage. 

He's always been very jealous of me, he often has called himself the black sheep of the family and I think bc I do not have this volatile relationship with them, he envies that.  Also envies my success ( I FEEL), even though he is very successful in his own right.   

I can relate, as my sister has a problem with jealousy.  Since you acknowledge that your brother is successful, try and find opportunities to complement him on his success.

He's very in to how he looks spends lots of time getting ready, lot of time in the gym. Is very set off by any change in plans or just in general of things aren't his way.

  The workout at the gym, and exercise in general, is beneficial for everyone, but especially beneficial for someone with ADD/ADHD.  Just wondering if he multitasks while he gets ready to go somewhere?  My dad didn't primp, but it would take him forever to get ready to go somewhere.  When my mom would comment, he'd say, "don't rush me".  I think part of it was a poor since of time, getting side tracked with distractions and sometimes just poor time management.  Instead of just showering, shaving, brushing teeth and getting dressed, other things would happen between each step.  I think my dad was a bit OCD as well, before leaving the house unoccupied (even for a couple of hours), he would go around the house and turn the water off under all the sinks in the house.  He would have been better served to just shut off the water at the main shut off, but it was what it was, .  I don't ever remember my parents having a major water leak at their house, but for some reason, my dad was a bit paranoid about it.

NOTE:  Continued in the next post.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Continued from prior post

I've read most of Walking on Eggshells - lent it to my SIL while she was in the midst of a relationship crisis with him and never got it back. If you have any more advice or books to read, any and all would be greatly appreciated!

There is a Book Section here, that you can locate from the main index page in the Learning Center area.  I'm thinking that you might benefit the most right now by taking some time to check out the Workshops on this website and start learning some communication skills and strategy to use with your brother.  I'm thinking you might have an upcoming family gathering, where you can practice - perhaps Mother's Day and Father's Day?  

Be careful what you ask for,    I'm about to throw several links at you. I don't know what device you are using, but it can be helpful to start a unique Bookmarks Folder, to collect helpful links in one place.  It's a lot easier with a laptop or a tablet, but you could use a phone if necessary. Here we go. .
BOUNDARIES:
Boundaries are for your benefit, and it is up to you to enforce them. Whether you need to set a boundary now or later, best to be prepared:  

BOUNDARIES WORKSHOP

BOUNDARIES ARTICLE

EXAMPLES

FIVE SIGNS OF UNHEALTHY BOUNDARIES

DON'T INVALIDATE (OR PROPER VALIDATION):
NOT invalidating can be important.You know the old saying, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all".  People with BPD/BPD traits can be very sensitive.  So, don't invalidate by expression, body language or word.  Validating feelings, can be a helpful tool; but, when in doubt about how to validate - just don't invalidate.  Validation isn't about agreeing with someone or validating a position that is invalid.  It is just about acknowledging the existance of someone's feelings.  You don't have to agree with the feeling.  They might not make any sense, but acknowledging someone's feelings can make a difference:    

DON'T INVALIDATE

LEVELS OF VALIDATION

ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATION STRATEGIES:
The links below offer some additional valuable strategies:
Learn to avoid arguing:
DON'T JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain) and avoid circular arguments

TIPS FOR COMMUNICATING WITH SOMEONE WITH BPD

HOW TO TAKE A TIME OUT

THE DYSFUNCTIONAL DANCE

Check out more Workshops at the link below
WORKSHOPS

NOTE:  Take it a step at a time.  Don't let the info. overwhelm you.  If you bookmark the links, you can easily get back to them for ongoing study and review.  Using the skills takes practice and they don't all work equally for everyone (one size doesn't fit all). 

[Healthnut4]

Wow.  This is incredibly helpful!  Thank you for this wealth of information.  Unfortunately I don't think this is ever going to be an easy fix, and require lots of studying and educating on my end.  I already am starting to see what you mean about the ADHD traits causing a lot of his behaviors bc he is extra sensitive and also has bouts of rage from it.  I do think you're right... .he probably does not have BPD, but does have some BPD traits.  Thank you SO much for sharing all your knowledge.