Feelings of Anger and Rage in Nons

[DaddyBear77]

I have been feeling REALLY angry, resentful, even feelings of rage, toward my pwBPD. We talk a lot about their feelings toward us, but what about the other way around?

Is this all rooted in feeling like a victim? If we feel like we're a victim and obsessing over that, do we eventually "flip out" and rage back so that we can show them / ourselves that we're NOT the victim?

I get that self care and taking care of myself and removing myself from the situation is the right thing, maybe the only thing, to do. Right now I'm sitting in the car, resisting my pwBPD's text bombs to come back in and reenggage. And I know she'll start to cry and wail and the pressure will ramp and ramp and I REALLY want to stop that from happening. But I'm afraid that if I go in, I'm just going to start shouting and screaming back and stomping around and pounding my fists and doing everything I can to control the rage.

I don't see a lot of people on here talking about this, so am I alone? Is this just a one off situation? I sure wish I knew how to fix all this.

Thanks for listening. Glad I got that off my chest.

[coworkerfriend]

DB - you aren't alone in feeling angry and resentful.  It is something I work on and seems to be increasingly harder for me to get past.  In the past, anytime I have raged back - it just put more fuel on an already burning fire.  Plus that generally isn't who I am.  I am not a doormat but I wouldn't consider myself a fighter either.  I have been getting better at removing myself from the situation and my struggle starts a few hours later when I feel bad for leaving.  But I spent too many years trying letting him dump all his emotions and anger and taking the blame for all the bad things in his life.  I had to put a stop to it.  It's been hard.  All of this has been hard. 

I am glad you got this off your chest and I do understand. 

[BeagleGirl]

DaddyBear,
    I think you read my mind. I was thinking about starting a thread for venting. Most of the time I can focus on self care and moving forward and seeking advice on how best to handle things. Today I want to vent and NOT have anyone tell me how to "constructively deal with my feelings" or "look at things from my BPD's perspective".

    Today is my S14's birthday. I'm doing my best to make this a great day for my son, but I'm dealing with resentment that I didn't get to wake S14 up with a happy birthday kiss and make him  birthday breakfast (it's my husband's weekend, so I'm just along for the birthday celebration time).

    This week I dropped out of a really incredible leadership program (I work for a multinational company known for its leadership development) because I need to be ready to step in and take over parenting if my husband starts escalating the suicidal talk. I know I made that choice for myself and my children, but I still feel anger towards my husband.

    I am living like a college student in a 350 sq ft apartment where my bathroom sink doubles as my kitchen sink and the microwave, micro fridge, and a coil burner make up the rest of my kitchen. Meanwhile, my husband lives in the 3000 sq ft house that is my dream home, with my sons and dogs. I had to fight for him to contribute $750/month to family finances when I moved out so that I would be able to move out without pulling my S14 out of private school. Now, when I am asking for a legal separation where I can negotiate finances and custody with a clear head (I left home 3 months ago like I was fleeing a burning building), he starts telling our counselor that he wants to die.  So I'm left needing to decide if it's worth escalating those thoughts/threats to get out of limbo.

    :)on't get me wrong, my teeny tiny apartment is a sanctuary, and my career will always take a back seat to the needs of my children. It's just that some days, like today, I just want to rant about how unfair it all feels.

And that's without starting in on the idea that I want to be loved and cared for, and it feels like the man who promised to do that is the one who is causing the most pain and (unless I can reconcile myself to divorce) stands in the way of me finding a man who would be willing and capable to be the lover, friend, and companion that I long for.

    Add me to the list of nons who wishes they could "disregulate" every once in a while.

[Lalathegreat]

Absolutely I feel resentment, anger, and rage! When he dysregulates and everything falls apart, I find that he leans more and more on me to be the one that helps keep things afloat, all the while blaming me for being the reason for his problems in the first place. I can't count the number of times I have dreamed about screaming the absolute diatribe that is going on in my mind while he is the one ACTUALLY screaming at me. How is it fair that he gets to unload whatever he wants and I don't feel like I can?

It's not fair. But I'm not BPD. And what that means for the moment is that *I* am the only one in the situation who CAN control my feelings to any degree. I absolutely need to do a better job of communicating certain things, and I definitely need to be better about having and enforcing boundaries. But at the end of the day I recognize that unloading back will only be bad for both of us. Also - and this probably isn't the most flattering thing to admit - but sometimes it makes me feel a little... .superior. It isn't in my nature to bring hurt and strife, and I refuse to give up that "higher" ground. He doesn't GET to turn me into a hurtful, unkind person. I will NOT get down in the mud with him and roll.

But do I have rage? You betcha. Do I dream about all the ways I'd love to let him have it? Yup. We're human.

Hang in there!

[WhippingBoy]

Hi DaddyBear,
I'm new to this group having just signed up last night. Still getting my bearings for how the site and the comments work, but in reading your post I felt compelled to reply because I have been there so many times. I know just how you feel after hours of rage and anger have been directed at you, you've been personally insulted, your masculinity has been trampled, and every effort has been made to find and hit the button that is hurtful enough to evoke an angry response from you.

I have been married to my Borderline wife for nearly four years now. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that bad things happen when I allow her condition to get the better of me and I end up getting angry. When I sink to that level, the distinction of who is rational and sane and who is ruled by rage is lost and in the post OJ Simpson world, all ties go to the woman.

Like you, I have strong feelings of resentment, but I have learned that I can operate from a position of greater power when I stay in control of my emotions. When you cave in and react you're giving her what she wants, which is to take away your power by causing you to lower yourself to her level.

[eggfry]

I think it's a pretty natural emotional response to feel some resentment for someone who hurts you repeatedly. Even when you know the BPD isn't who they are, it gets to you. I definitely struggle with checking my resentment. We tend to be the responsible party, the one who's supposed to be in control. It's a lot to be that for someone, there's a lot of pressure, so much of things rely on your reactions. And as much as you know your BPD loved one deep down cares for you, it doesn't mean that their insults, rages or unhealthy behavior doesn't effect you. It hurts, it wears you down, and sometimes you just want to be heard. It sometimes feels like I'm not allowed to be angry.  But it's something that happens in non BPD relationships too, if one party isn't heard, it just builds up and explodes later. Also I'm not sure about you, but I often find that I don't voice my feelings out of concern it will just lead to something worse. And consequently I just hold it in. I know it's unhealthy but I'm still working on finding a way to communicate in a safe way with my BPD S.O.

Have you considered going to a boxing gym or muay thai? I go to classes a few times a week and it's nice to just hit something and let my physical and emotional stress out. It's something that helps take the built up stress levels down for the week. I'm still working on the communication thing but boxing helps center myself and keeps my mind clear.

[ortac77]

Good thread Daddybear, I certainly can feel like 'raging' and yes I can also feeling 'resentful'. Actually I don't have a problem feeling angry, I have every right to feel angry, any human being would when subject to the treatment from a pwBPD. Yes I might, most of the time, be able to separate the person from the illness, but not always!

Of course I don't want to feel angry most of the time as I have no doubt the Cortisol and Adrenaline play havoc with my long term health, so mainly I find ways to dispel the anger in a more healthy way, walking, mindfulness but sometimes not and today is a 'not' day. So to vent, today, I am Bloody Angry!

in Al-Anon I have come to see that most people dealing with chronic mental illness (including alcoholism) and underlying issues like BPD get angry, meetings can be a good place for me to take my anger (and see that others have the same feelings).

Of course I can 'detach' - works most of the time, but BPD sufferers see this as abandonment so just ramp up the behaviours and draw us back in to the insanity.

Victim?

If I am a victim though that must have been through my own bad choices
- I chose to persevere with this relationship, although as time goes on I don't think I can for much longer. Of course then I will be the persecutor in the BPD insanity.


 

[formflier]

  And I know she'll start to cry and wail and the pressure will ramp and ramp and I REALLY want to stop that from happening.

I think this is the critical dynamic to focus on.  If you can drill down and figure out the "why" behind you "really" wanting to stop an adult from throwing a tantrum... .I think that will clarify some steps that you can take... .to manage your own emotions more and manager her emotions less.

This is not the easiest thing to do.  I don't want to claim that I'm "done" with this process, but I think I'm well on the way.

I certainly used to feel more responsible for my wife's feelings than I do now.  Certainly some feeling of responsibility is normal and even healthy for people in a relationship.  However, most of us are way too "enmeshed".

How to deal with anger and resentment.  Certainly we all have experienced things that we can be angry about... and should be angry about.

For me, I was honestly more angry at myself for lack of boundaries and putting someone before my needs, that was abusive to me in return.

Once I started standing up for myself, much of the anger subsided.

Whenever I feel angry now, I try to be deliberat about caring for my immediate feeling (they are my feelings to care for) AND I try to look at boundaries and things that can be done to protect me from the "source" of the anger.

Hope this helps... .

When I ask the question "What are you angry about... .?"  what would be your answer?

FF

[ortac77]

When I ask the question "What are you angry about... .?"  what would be your answer?

FF

A good question and definitely one I have been thinking about today. Of course I am primarily angry with myself for tolerating the intolerable and then picking up the pieces! In fact today in order to calm my anger I have thought about the many events contributing to it, I do believe it can become cumulative and I have (perverse at it may seem) calmed myself by thinking through many of the events from the past. I have learned some lessons but I have come to realise that the combination of BPD and alcohol is beyond my ability to deal with.

As yesterday was his 'drunken trawl' through everybody he hates and how he wants to kill them/himself because he cannot see how he damages himself I came to see the depths of his sickness and the damage he has done. I allowed myself to become a victim and todays resolution is this stops now.

[Grey Kitty]

DaddyBear (and others in this topic!), I see two likely reasons you are angry/resentful right now.

One is obvious: You are being treated badly right now, and you have feelings about it. (Not much to do about it other than keeping yourself away to protect yourself from her attacks and prevent you from raging back at her, as that won't help anything.)

One is less obvious: During the bad years of my marriage, something happened which I didn't quite notice until after it started to change. I described it as my wife consuming all the 'emotional oxygen' in the room. There was absolutely no space for my feelings. Hers stomped all over mine. If I somehow did happen to have any feelings, she immediately turned things around and made it all about her, and made her feelings bigger, louder, and more important, and I stuffed my own feelings so I could react to hers, manage hers, etc.

Then I learned more about boundaries, and stopped getting dragged into all her drama as much.

At some point, the feelings I'd been stuffing for a few years came out. I finally found some of the 'emotional oxygen' and started to use some of it myself. It was kinda surprising what came out!

[Sluggo]

I'm still working on the communication thing but boxing helps center myself and keeps my mind clear.

Yes I have really liked boxing.  It is fun to hit the bag. 

There was absolutely no space for my feelings.

I experienced that too.  I slowly started eliminating topics that I could discuss because it would cause opportunities for her to put me down...
example:
1.   me talking about current events to my wife= her telling me all I do is look at the internet at work, 
2.  me talking about something my brother said 2 weeks ago = my wife critical of me that it took me 2 weeks to tell her I talked to my brother. 
3.  helping a friend move furniture during an afternoon work day= my wife stating that I should be home helping her and not to help again.
4.  telling my wife I ate and got a $1 hamburger because I was on the road = wife critical that I spend money
5.  telling my wife I met a prospective client for coffee in the morning = wife critical that all I do at work is play.
6.  a sibling stopped by worked to drop off a present for one of the kids because our house was further away = wife critical of my family and saying if they really loved our child she would make the effort to drive all the way. 
7.  and so forth... .

my box of items I talked about got smaller and smaller and smaller over the years.  Until I had very few conversations I felt I could discuss that she would not be critical of.  Or use another metaphor... .  it was a dying of a thousand cuts. 

those above experiences caused a lot of pain and anger. 

[ortac77]

Grey Kitty

You certainly have it there! All the Emotional O2 being consumed and no room for my feelings, the other image that came to me was an 'emotional vampire', sucking the life blood of my emotions and humanity!

I think what really sparked such an intense anger in me was the fact that last week was the anniversary of my Mum's death, having mentioned that I was feeling upset it (after a day) triggered a tirade of how I 'had no feelings' and could not possibly understand  all the bad things that my pwBPD suffered at the hands of everyone else, how I always cared about others and not him etc, etc.

Yes you are right and I think it explains why I got so angry this weekend.

Compassionate mindfulness has got me through this episode but I know I really need to really get to grips with better boundaries around this stuff.

Thanks

[Notwendy]

Anger and rage are feelings. Feelings like any other feelings that inform us. Biologically- feelings like anger and fear are for survival. April - the giraffe that just had a baby kicked a veterinarian when he got too close to the baby. Does this mean she is evil and uncaring ? No, he crossed her boundary.

Human relationships are complicated and we shouldn't be kicking people- but anger informs us.

The problem with being reactive to anger is that it triggers fight or flight as if we were in danger. April's baby was not in danger but she acted on instinct. If we did -we may do or say things we later regret. But this doesn't mean we ignore the feeling or the situation that we are angry about. It's just better to act when we are calm- unless the situation is truly dangerous.

When dealing with BPD a problem is that raging and yelling isn't very effective. Because of projection and dissociation that anger is likely to be projected back and not result in a change. The veterinarian learned something- even if he is familiar with April and she is comfortable with him - the baby is off limits ( there's a video on YouTube if anyone is interested)

With projection- I don't think the learning is there. I think the pwBPD feels attacked- goes into victim mode- and then defends themselves. This probably escalated the situation. This doesn't mean not ever being angry and letting someone violate boundaries but looking for a more effective way to establish them.

[formflier]

Yes I have really liked boxing.  It is fun to hit the bag. 

We boxed a bunch as part of training for Naval Aviation.  The physical part was great, but also important to learn how to "take a punch... .a hard one" and remember to keep your hands up.  Perhaps even jab a bit to gain some distance and let the other person know you are still in the fight.

A "jab" for us would be a strong clear boundary that "creates separation" while we clear the fuzz in hour head from the emotional haymaker that just clocked us.

Hope the analogy works.

FF

[BeagleGirl]

Feeling a lot of anger today and a certain percentage of it is that I allowed myself to be sucked into a conversation with him that lasted long enough to have me running late to get packed and to the airport for my work trip.  Besides a brush, I forgot to pack a sports bra and now I am resenting the idea of having to go buy one so I can run off this anger.  Which is building up more anger... .

I am patting myself on the back a little, though.  He baited me yesterday pretty significantly and I didn't say anything in anger that I'm ashamed of.  The last time we talked with this much tension I "broke" twice and used words that I'm not proud of.  I'm sure FormFlier has heard worse from his tenure in the military  , but I grew up with the "S word" being "stupid" and the "F word" being "fart".  So for me to tell him (last confrontation, not this one) he should have kept his "stupid mouth shut" felt like a point in his column.

I have a secret longing to go find a secluded place and just scream obscenities, but I'm a bit afraid that my creativity would fail me and it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying as I would hope it would be.  So I'll stick to running - as soon as I go buy a sports bra.

[formflier]

  I'm sure FormFlier has heard worse from his tenure in the military  ,

I swear I've seen cussing a piece of machinery work to get it going again.  Also seen cussing and kicking a piece of machinery work.

Now... I get it that kicking probably jiggled some contacts and the trons started flowing... .so I sort that out in my head that way.  But just cussing something good? 

Still... .be pragmatic... .if it works... it works.


Deliberate self care.  After getting whatever garmets you need and going for that run.  Spend some extra time stretching and cooling down.  Then... .enjoy that sports massage you scheduled. 

Things always look better after a massage.

FF

[Notwendy]

I also don't think it is a good thing to never express anger- but it needs to be done in a controlled way.

Everyone gets angry, it is a normal thing in relationships. I love my kids, but do I feel anger when they cross a boundary? Yes, and the way to express it is in a loving and instructive way. You don't say " you clumsy idiot, why did you break this!" you say "  This is what happens when we run in the house, so please walk"

It's a little different with a romantic relationship, but if we don't speak up, we can get resentful. That isn't being loving. I think it is good to use "I " statements, not "you".  "It hurts my feelings when you speak to me like this". Then disengage if the verbal insults continue.

I wouldn't say my H has full on BPD but enough traits to match my own issues from BPD mom. This gets us into circular discussions that lead nowhere and arguments that escalated until I was just crying and screaming from frustration.

Eventually, I got tired of the drama and just stopped. I treated him as if he was not teachable. I had WOE for so long, things were pretty much his way, no discussion. But I was resentful and realized that by not having boundaries, I was giving up on the relationship. If we are doormats, we aren't really in the relationship. Marriage isn't just about making one person feel good. It is also a learning experience for two people. By not expressing who I was, there was no relationship with me.

I have learned to be angry when my boundaries are crossed, but using I statements. I have also learned to not react at the first response- which tends to be to argue over it.  I don't take it personally. If I don't react, I can get the message through. But this also means I have to accept that he gets angry at me and be able to tolerate that, and disengage if I need to.

I did let it all out with BPD mom, but to really do this, I think one has to feel as if there is nothing left to lose in the relationship, because the pay back was rough. I really let it all out. I didn't have the tools on this board yet. The better way has been to set boundaries and to not let her reaction upset me. We even had a teachable moment. Once she was angry and said she wouldn't send the grandkids presents any more. I didn't react. Months later she called to ask what they wanted for their birthdays. This was the teachable moment: I said "Mom, they appreciate anything, a card or a gift, but please don't send a gift if the next time you get angry you take it away. Doing this only hurts your relationship with them". She got it. But this could only happen when anger and resentment were not part of the discussion.

I think if we can hold our boundaries and stay calm during the reaction, it is better than to have poor boundaries, get really resentful and just let it fly. But to do this, we also have to be able to stay calm  or disengage when they are angry at us and not be reactive. Unless we are in danger, or a momma  giraffe protecting our babies.

[Hmcbart]

Hello all,

This is one I've been struggling with a lot lately.  I understand that everyone is allowed to get angry.  I've had this discussion multiple times with my therapist.  The reason I try so hard to keep it all in us because I know it will come back to haunt me later.  I learned long ago that anything I say can and will be used against me at some point in the future.  If it's said while I'm angry it's guaranteed to be used to justify her feelings for what ever she is upset about. 

It seems that expressing my emotions and feelings only cause her to get defensive.  When things escalate and I get upset I tend to use a lot of colorful adjectives, the "F-word" can be used as almost every word in a sentence.  Then after I am calmed down and weeks or even months have past, she can be upset about something and my words are brought back to justify her feelings. 

It happens in our MC almost every time we have to talking about my feelings or something that I need to do.  As soon as I start talking she will interrupt and explain that she can't or won't do something because of the mean and aweful things I said to her. The things she did to cause me to finally speak up don't matter, just what I said. 

That's why I fight back with all my heart to get upset in front of her.  There hasn't been a time yet in 20 years where it didn't come back to bite me.  That said I still can't always win that battle within and I do explode.  I've never touched her or anyone else out of anger, but I can be very well spoken when trying to convey what I'm feeling. 

[DaddyBear77]

In the past, anytime I have raged back - it just put more fuel on an already burning fire.  Plus that generally isn't who I am.

Thanks  coworkerfriend - I see on your other thread that things are still really difficult for you, and I'm really sorry to hear that. I think it's really important to know who we are. I'm afraid I have really forgotten who I am. I'm tearing up thinking about that, but it's true. I don't even know if I'm a nice guy any more, and that used to be SO important to me.

Today I want to vent and NOT have anyone tell me how to "constructively deal with my feelings" or "look at things from my BPD's perspective".

  BeagleGirl I am right there with you, obviously. I am SO drained and emotionally down that I have absolutely NO energy to use the tools. What has occurred to me is that I should have been using the tools years ago, before I got into so much financial stress and before D3 was in the middle of it. THAT would have been the time to save / improve the relationship.

It isn't in my nature to bring hurt and strife, and I refuse to give up that "higher" ground. He doesn't GET to turn me into a hurtful, unkind person. I will NOT get down in the mud with him and roll.

  Lalathegreat I really wish I had maintained this position. I'm pretty sure that's where I used to be - refusing to get down into the mud. But like I said, I've lost myself now. And I've been in the mud and it sucks and now I need out and it's so much harder once you're down in it.

If you can drill down and figure out the "why" behind you "really" wanting to stop an adult from throwing a tantrum... .I think that will clarify some steps that you can take... .to manage your own emotions more and manager her emotions less.

Great observation  formfiler - for the past few years I've said I want to stop her tantrum because it's harmful for our D3 to hear this. And that's a very true statement - time after time uBPDw wife would rage and tantrum and the shouting and disturbance would then REALLY upset D3 (who was D1 and D2 and younger and it was HORRIBLE to be stuck between a wife who was screaming and crying and a daughter who was in the other room crying her eyes out, upset beyond belief. I feel sick to my stomach thinking about it.


I want to capture more of this but I have to run for now - more later. Thanks everyone.

[Notwendy]

My own personal experience is that I get into trouble "expressing my feelings" to someone with BPD. If they have difficulty dealing with their own uncomfortable feelings how could they manage to process someone else's? If we are feeling hurt or angry - we are in victim mode - but this puts them in victim mode - they respond by defending themselves and feeling hurt ( victim)

IMHO if we complete for victim position that is a losing endeavor. Our feelings are to inform us. If I'm angry- I want to look at that - for me.

It's probably not good to react with anger in the moment but to take action calmly. Being raged at or verbal abuse can be met with disengagement.  I have said " I need to stop this conversation as I am too upset to continue. I might even repeat by saying " I can not continue - I need to calm down". There is no blame in this statement- it's self care. Additionally it doesn't add fuel to the drama.