We must stop this (update)

[Helplessly]

6 people have reached out to me regarding my "suicide" post last week and I appreciate it.  This is my last topic post here.  I can't take it anymore.

This is a BPD forum.  There are diagnosed individuals suffering on a daily basis.  Their family members come here looking for support.  To share stories.  Look for advice.

But for those of us who have had our hearts ripped out by someone we were in love with, we HAVE TO STOP DIAGNOSING THEM.  At best we should be looking at our roles in the demise of the relationship.  It's already tiring listening to the clinical terms such as "recycle," "discard," "replace."  Sometimes it's just breaking up, getting back together, moving on.

I'm in no better shape than I was before.  I've been called an addict over this breakup.  I've been told by numerous people that what I'm feeling isn't love, it's infatuation or obsession.  That's crap.  I absolutely love her with all of my heart.  I was co-dependent in the end but that's on me.  My own fears and insecurities allowed me to stay and nurse her through her physical ailments in an effort to hang on to the last threads of the relationship.  I was hoping she would look at me one day and the incredible amount of love she once had would reawaken.  It was never to happen.

I was crushed in the end and remain so.  But she telegraphed to me that it was over months ago.  Her coldness in the end was the result of her mourning the relationship well before I did.  Again, my fears and insecurities and attachment denied this.  I'm also cursed with determination to see things through and overcome any problem.  Not this time.

The BPD tendencies?  Screw that.  She was a beautiful but highly sensitive insecure little girl on the inside.  She suffered from obvious anxiety, and was afraid I would leave her.  She was tough to be around sometimes because of the intensity levels.  This made me trepid at first, and she sensed it.  I made a conscious effort to keep her at a distance because, at times, she made people (family, friends) uncomfortable.  She picked up on this and I realized I hurt her enormously.  She wanted to be accepted and loved at all costs and I let her down.

She raged at times, said horrible things, dumped me, swore at me, insulted me (and my kid).  But I feel I triggered that.  Yes, I'm making excuses, but we're all human.  Call it rumination, call it what you will.  But I would do it all differently if I could.

I still don't know if I'm going to survive this but I'm coming to realize that it's me.  Not her.  I'm not a doctor and I'm not diagnosing her.  She's nutty.  But me... .I'm currently insane.

I broke the "NC rule" this morning and reached out to see how she was feeling, followed by a brief exchange and my offer to be there as a friend any time she would like to reach out.  I'm no better or worse for it.  It just is.

This is the most difficult thing I've dealt with in my life.  Keep in mind I'm a divorced father of two.  It looks as though this was coming at me for a long time though.  I was very confident and positive prior to this.  It must have been a mask.  She was happy when I met her as well.  A survivor of sorts.  This was the perfect storm for me.  I found someone who gave me a heavy dose of love and approval.  I finally found the person I wanted to grow old and die with.  Or someone who needed me? 

I could have kept walking a dozen times after we fought.  But I chose to move my boundaries out of love and understanding, pure and simple.

I'm dead inside and and want desperately to be with her, but she's moved on.  This is my fault.

Good luck and I hope you all find peace.

[roberto516]

Helplessly I understand your feelings all too well. I have done what you have. I told her that I would love to consider us again if we both spent time working on ourselves. I said that I would always be her friend if she needed me, etc.

Right after the first breakup I took it all on me. I remember telling my T that it was all my fault and if only I had done better. My T then calmly said that in a little bit of time I would probably start blaming her for everything. Guess what happened? . I guess the final stage, which can regress back to the original two, is acceptance that both people played a role in it.

It's far too common after a relationship like this to be on the polar extremes at various times. It can be argued that the anger at self is done because it's a way to find a solution out of all of it. "It's my fault. There's my answer to this." This could be happening because we can't get closure from the other half of the relationship.

I'll give you my own experience if you care to read it.

The part I played: After I tried to communicate and it didn't get anywhere with my feelings I shut down those emotions until they became too unbearable and i would finally tell her why I was so angry. I could have tried alternative methods to communicate. Instead I tried what I thought was best, didn't work, and so I kept it to myself.

I began to become aware that she needed much more time to process her emotions and feelings, but in my anger I rarely gave her the chance to take it all in and then talk. During the recycle I did. But it was far too late.

When she went to Las Vegas I was very short with my answers to her when she reached out. I didn't want to know what she was doing. I told her that in so many words but I was still emotionally distant. I can't imagine how I'd feel if she did that to me.

I'm sure I did much, much more. I didn't keep pushing for therapy. I didn't go to individual therapy until after the breakup (which could have allowed me to run if the therapist saw the warning signs but I was probably too much into the FOG to have spoken to honestly about the abuse).

I could have set better boundaries in the beginning and gave her the chance to see if this was something she wants to be a part of or not. And of course I resented after enough time. That was the big one. I resented that she didn't put any effort into us and never really showed me she cared about my feelings. And I withheld communicating that to her. I knew where it would lead. It was a cycle.

The part she played: Read all my former posts .

It takes two to tango. Had we both been motivated and willing it could have worked. But you can't give, give, give and not eventually have the relationship wither and die. Personality disorder or not. These are just my two cents. But I have been where you are far too much. Sometimes I go back and forth in the span of 1 minute. LITERALLY! Blaming her for hurting me and then realizing my own projections, insecurities, and faulty views of relationship playing the part. After that I think it's all my fault. Then I go back to blaming her. It's a cycle. Eventually I believe we will all see a more balanced perspective.

One more thing. You can imagine how much I hate myself sometimes for "falling for it". For not walking away and being the one in control and proud of myself. But I moved the boundaries like you. I would always apologize for being angry and speaking about them. I would always apologize for my feelings. I thought that "I love her enough that I can get through this stuff because it will get better." Well she didn't want to do the same. I allowed her to see that I would always apologize and never ask her to take ownership. You can imagine my own self hate that I have when I think of her and her beauty and think "Well you blew that one." Now she will be someone else's girlfriend, and they will thank their lucky stars they were with someone so absolutely stunning. It's all rumination. I understand your post far too well. I have been there, and I will be again many many more times.

[once removed]

hi Helplessly,

i think you raise a lot of very important points. our goal here is to get beyond the pain, and to our role in the demise of the relationship if we hope to heal.

it is invalidating to be told your feelings for your loved one arent real, or are about something else. i remember in the depths of my pain telling someone i missed my ex. their response was that i probably didnt miss "her" but i missed the "companionship". nonsense. i missed her, and thats perfectly natural when you lose someone you love and care for even if they have hurt you.

members arrive here in all different stages of pain, with much to learn, and most still struggling with making sense of it all. this is a part of any support group and somewhat goes with the territory.

it sounds like you came here to dive straight into the hardest of hard work. i commend you, and we are here to support you and help you to do just that.

i hope you will continue to post and share here, Helplessly. we are here for you.

[Helplessly]

Well here I go moving my boundaries again by posting.  Hahaha... .ahem.

Roberto's situation is eerily similar to mine. In the very beginning my ex was very forthgoing about describing herself as a SENSITIVE.  And she is. Not very typical of people with BPD.  She analyzed everything I said and fought hard not to. I could see her thinking and contemplating on almost every word.   I remember the first time I drove myself to tears in front of her. A long time ago. I was in despair. I had a feeling that somehow the relationship might not work. She heard me sobbing and came running to me and threw herself at me. Balling and apologizing, hating herself for hurting me. She meant it. Here's the deal;

Some people are very sensitive. Overly sensitive.  They have a tough time controlling their reaction to real or perceived affronts.  It doesn't matter why. It doesn't NEED a diagnosis. Like Freud said sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Ok?  Now, working on a relationship for them is different. The more sensitive you are the more fatigued you get emotionally. This girl busted her ass for a couple of months making her own concessions and probably moving boundaries in the beginning.  :)efinitely moved them I'm sure. I wanted to take things slowly. She wanted to marry me in week 6. Her two months equaled my 1.5 years. She withdrew and got over this sooner. I give her credit for the final bold move.

The irony is this. And this is where self loathing is thick.  I've never been more sensitive than I am now.  I'm easily wounded and in the end hung on her EVERY WORD.  It annoyed her to death. Imagine what I'm saying and soak it in.  This was a permanent role reversal. I became less appealing. Her new guy is an alpha like I WAS.  It's like a black widow effect without intent.

The rebounds and cycles started in month 3 when I chose to take a vacation with my daughter. I wanted to go just me and my kid. She was turning 21 and how many dad/daughter trips are left?  Also, my ex was highly inappropriate and kind of scared people. She was exhausting to be around in this phase. Overly sensitive.  Maniacally intense. I'll tell you what,  you would have thought I killed her dog. She felt rejected and looking back, I could cut myself thinking of the pain I caused. This was the beginning of resentment and a jealous loathing of my daughter. Maybe rightfully so. Maybe I was embarrassed of her weird behavior. But she's just weird!  So what?

Looking back I shouldn't have moved so slowly. I should have taken a chance. Rolled with it. My instincts held me back. And I'm forever heartbroken.

[lucky013]

I know its hard to believe this because your invested in this girl and will believe anything she says. Well she could of been playing you the whole time, its only after you get over these relationships that you can see them for there true perspective.

Unfortunately people will and can lie directly to your face and you can take it as truth. As for why you feel the way you do.

I do hope that your situation will clear up for you

[Helplessly]

Lucky013 I realize people lie.  Trust me on that.  She could have been playing me for over a year.  I don't know to what gain.  It's more likely she has no idea about the differences between love/infatuation.  OR like I alluded to, it was a perfect mesh.  Perfect storm.  I'm a successful professional with stability.  Two well adjusted kids.
 No divorce baggage (16 years ago).  She's a successful professional with very little stability in her family and social life.  Hates her mom (flag). Speaks to nobody in her family.  My guess is that she alienated herself from these people in some way.  She's good at eliminating people from her life entirely, citing that life is too short, etc... .  For some reason I buy into it.  She's comfortable being alone.  Again she isn't a typical BPD candidate so I'm just going to say she's kinda crazy and has used that crazy to survive and protect herself.  Yes, from past experiences I'm sure... .

She was excited about "having a family" and about my grown kids.  It wasn't long before she showed some irritation at certain events like my son's high school graduation.  She wanted back in her element, which consists of speakeasys, hipster bars, and serious pot smoking...   She got what she wanted and it wasn't for her.  I was an experiment maybe.

After our first breakup in April of last year, someone very close to me said, "she's not going to wind up with anyone normal.  This is true.  But I'm still insanely jealous.

[Skip]

If anyone is recognizing these symptoms in your relationship, I'm begging you to run away as fast as you can.  Please run away.  I've lost my soul.      

I still don't know if I'm going to survive this but I'm coming to realize that it's me.  Not her.  I'm not a doctor and I'm not diagnosing her.  She's nutty.  But me... .I'm currently insane.

It might help to think more in terms of a relationship struggle rather than "who is at fault/broken".

It also might help to think of these definitions of mental conditions were not created to condemn and blame, but rather to understand and help. If your ex has BPD tendencies, there are a lot of tools available to help you understand her and how she sees life. If you are in a depression, there are a lot of tools available to help you understand what you are going through and how to work through it.

One place to start this process is here. It is a widely respected test to measure depression.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79772.0

If you are struggling with depression, there are tools to help you get to a safe harbor to better work through the grief and loss you are feeling. This is important to help you better chart you path forward with respect to this relationship.

[Duped 1]

If she's BPD it is highly unlikely it was you. Your biggest fault was likely hanging around an abusive person too long

[Meili]

I completely agree with you Helplessly, we are not doctors and cannot diagnose anyone. I'm not sure that the diagnosis is that important when detaching from an intense relationship however. Does it really matter if our exes are BPD or not? Would that change our need to detach and heal?

If you're stuck in the "why did this happen?" phase, then the possible diagnosis can lend some comfort. If you've moved past that and are now just accepting that it did happen and how the role that you played in the relationship it probably doesn't.

In the topic on the Purpose of this Board it says:

This board is for grieving the loss of the relationship, doing the postmortem to understand what really happened, and working together to get in touch with our own feelings and the issues that lead us to the unhealthy bonding to begin with.

That truly is what it is all about.

It's not about blaming our exes, being a victim, or looking for answers outside of ourselves. It's about the postmortem, understanding, and why we developed the unhealthy bond or not.

Was my x that brought me here a pwBPD? I'll never know. Does it matter to me? Not really. My actions and choices were my own regardless of who she was. She did not control me or make decisions for me. Those are the things that I had to look at and face.

As once removed said, the invalidation that you feel/felt at being told that you do not truly love her is wrong. I truly loved and still love my x. I will always love her and who she is... .the good and the bad. I suspect that's what you are trying to tell us about your feelings for your x; you radically accepted who she was and loved her just the same. There's no shame in that. It shows strength and compassion.

It is my honest hope that you won't let the words of a few dissuade you from continuing with your growth and desire to understand yourself and your choices. There is so much to be gained. When I first started posting here, there was a lot of talk about the "gift" that our partners in these intense relationship give us. Maybe you can see the gift and not allow it to go to waste.

[Skip]

Your biggest fault was likely hanging around an abusive person too long

Duped, is this true in your case? Is this your challenge in life - the mountain blocking your from rewarding relationships? You hang around abusive people too long?

Do you think it is also my biggest challenge? And Helplessly's?

Are the deep emotional wounds we suffer superficial and universal to us all?

[Duped 1]

Duped, is this true in your case? Is this your challenge in life - the mountain blocking your from rewarding relationships? You hang around abusive people too long?

Do you think it is also my biggest challenge? And Helplessly's?

Are the deep emotional wounds we suffer superficial and universal to us all?

Definitely not my challenge in life, but was the case in this relationship. At least that's what the counselor we saw as a couple thought as well as does my new T who specializes in BPD. Both know the intricate details of the relationship and commented that the abuse I endured might be considered domestic violence due to how severe it was.

[Helplessly]

Skip there's truth to this.  I allowed myself to pretty much erase all boundaries.  The only one I had left was infidelity.  I don't know if she cheated on me.  It wouldn't surprise me but I doubt it based on the ridiculous time we spent together.  I mean I nursed her for like 75 days straight.  Driving home in the mornings before work to throw on a shirt and tie and then fight rush hour traffic.

Her weapons were her words.  I've never seen anyone rage like this.

Speaking of which, I've never dealt with this particular thing before... .When she raged, her face turned hideous.  I mean demonic.  Ugly.  And it wasn't my imagination.  Lines and wrinkles would appear   Strings of spittle would line her mouth.  She would throw her body around like an animated skeleton. It was scary.  Has anyone experienced this?   Kind of like this: www.clash-of-the-titans.wikia.com/wiki/File:Calibos.jpg

I'm sure many can relate, but after around 5 months, I started thinking not "if" this relationship ends, but "WHEN."  I made a break last summer for like 3 weeks, August of 2016.  Felt great.  Almost zero grief.  I couldn't take the crazy.  Then, like an idiot, I was horny, and I texted her busting her chops about not wishing me a happy birthday.  She said, "I hope I don't regret saying this, but I wish to see you."

That was the beginning of the end for me.  Rolled right up until 10 days ago.  Pathetic.  Begging.  Crying.  Overcompensating.  Lying to my friends and family from embarrassment that I'm chasing a woman who trashed my car,  said hurtful things to me about my kids... .

[Skip]

Skip there's truth to this. 

Truth to what, exactly?

[Helplessly]

 "Your biggest fault was likely hanging around an abusive person too long"

[Skip]

"Your biggest fault was likely hanging around an abusive person too long"

You are new and working through a lot of emotion, so  won't go to far into this. There will be time.

But a question to put in the back of your mind for the future. Is saying "My biggest fault was likely hanging around an abusive person too long" similar to an alcoholic saying "My biggest fault is drinking too much alcohol?" or a fat person saying "My biggest fault is eating too much food?".

All are true, but these are the systems, not the cause. Ultimately we need to fully understand and address the cause to if we are going to change.

[Helplessly]

I know exactly what you're saying with this. Believe me I'm doing a lot of soul-searching trying to figure out what opened me up to allow myself to be in this place

[Skip]

I'm doing a lot of soul-searching trying to figure out what opened me up to allow myself to be... .

Take your time. These things take time.

You may want to focus on your emotional state in the near term. You have had suicidal ideation. Taking the depression test will help you benchmark where you are and you can take the test periodically to see how and where you are improving.

You might want to brush up on the 10 areas of cognitive distortion we experience when depressed so that you are mindful of your own thoughts. Its natural to go down this pathway and being aware is a big step toward wandering back out.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56199.0

If you test high for depression, there is a lot of self care (exercise, no drinking, med evaluation) that can help get you on terra firma to make your soul searching more fruitful.

We are glad to have you here as part of the family. We all carried similar (and often different) burdens to these doors, and we all know the challenge to healing our wounds and getting back on our feet.

[once removed]

the first step for me was "admitting i have a problem". the problem? i didnt know what it was 

the second step was learning to hold these ideas simultaneously: "i can have a problem, i can have flaws, i can even be weak in some areas; it doesnt mean im a bad person or a failure as an individual. it means i have room for improvement."

the third step was learning. what i knew had worked for me, in its paradoxical way, until it hadnt. i needed to let that go, but in order to learn (what i didnt know i didnt know), i had to be open to the idea of learning that a lot of "what i knew" was not healthy, or not serving me, or incorrect. it was like learning a new way to do math. backwards and forwards at the same time.

i had to learn in order to be able to retroactively apply that to how id navigated life so far. i had to try new ways, improve at them, and see the results.

then "the problem" was easier to see.

[Meili]

Many of our stories sound very similar Helplessly. Each has it's own, unique set of circumstances, but there are a great deal of similarities. It is kinda eerie, but it also helps us help one-another move forward in our respective lives.

Your words:

Her weapons were her words.  I've never seen anyone rage like this.

Speaking of which, I've never dealt with this particular thing before... .When she raged, her face turned hideous.  I mean demonic.  Ugly.  And it wasn't my imagination.  Lines and wrinkles would appear   Strings of spittle would line her mouth.  She would throw her body around like an animated skeleton. It was scary.

echo that which many of us have posted on here before. I too have written very similar things. The part about "throw[ing] her body around like an animated skeleton" was very true for my x. At times, she almost looked like a bad cartoon character going crazy. It was scary, but humorous to see.

I think that many of us find that not only did our exes behave in similar ways, but our responses were to them were quite similar. Many of us tried to JADE, hope that if we somehow say it differently or louder it would change things and everything would go back to the idealization phase. Others of us gave all of ourselves to our SO in hopes of showing the other person how much we truly loved and cared about that person and suddenly that would make everything right. I, and many, did a combination of those things.

I think that you've described giving and giving some more when you felt that there was nothing left to give in hopes of her returning that level of love, adoration, loyalty and commitment to you. Is that correct?

[Emotions]

Where is the depression test?

[Meili]

Where is the depression test?

Depression Self Testing: Are you depressed?

[HopinAndPrayin]

Helplessly,

My STBXH was officially diagnosed with BPD twice (for good measure).  It didn't make the break-up any less painful to know what was the cause, nor did it stave off depression.  He never accepted the diagnosis or that anything was wrong.  It was always, always my fault in his mind.  Oh, if only it actually were, I would have solved the heck out of it, but I exhausted myself for 5 years trying to get things just right so he would magically not have BPD.  (Who does that?   )

I share the rest here as I have been where you are.  Take what you like, leave the rest.  Maybe something here will resonate with you.  Most importantly, know that you are not alone.

Similar to what you are experiencing, I felt tremendous pain from my own activated attachment system and thought I was going crazy.  Add to that my dog (the first gift I ever gave myself and a really beautiful soul) passing was one of the triggers that led to his psychotic episode that had him running, I hit a major depression and didn't see a way out.  It took me a good 6 weeks of intense therapy and SAM-e supplements to get past those dark feelings.  Aside from trying to calm my activated system with warm baths, massages, vanilla candles, rest, avoiding alcohol, journaling, talking with friends who were there but I hadn't spoken to in a while, and spending time with my other 2 dogs, reading everything I could about hidden and psychological abuse was very helpful.  To sum, extreme self-care, talking with T and my sister and friends, educating myself on psychological abuse to understand how the brainwashing got me to erode my own boundary between self and other, and supplements that act like anti-depressants as well as prayer got me out of the dark valley.  I also removed all the photographs, clothing left behind, and abandoned personal items from the home (doubting myself the whole way thinking I should hang onto them so that if he returned we could get our life back on track) so I wouldn't be triggered.  I got to meet my own denial of the underlying problem face-to-face in removing those items.

It took a village and many members posting on these boards became my pseudofamily and support group as I quietly searched for similar experience.  I learned how truly not alone we are and about the generous goodness of others who want to help us heal.  What a surprising gift in the middle of such terrible loss.

I also focused on a few skills during this time - mindfulness and reminding myself that these feelings, though intense, are temporary.  You will feel hope again.  It's been four months since our split, and for the first time this past weekend, I felt hope.  It too was a passing feeling and it lasted only an hour the first time, but I celebrated its return knowing that it would come again and perhaps sit longer with me as I moved further into the rest of my journey.

When we lose someone, there is grief and a desire to understand.  I was never able to get that understanding from my STBXH.  I was only able to get it through education on emotional / psychological abuse, talking with my T who is experienced with PDs and does marriage counseling, and talking with others who knew him and they shared their own experiences.  I was finally able to see he wasn't this way with me, he was just this way.  It was like I had all these puzzle pieces before and I would look at them individually and think how odd the image of the one piece was but I could never get them to fit together to give me the whole picture.  Education, therapy and these boards gave me the ability to fit it all together.  I have more perspective now and a lot of answers I had been seeking for years.  But it still hurts.

Reading others' posts, reading through the workshops here and learning what the internal world of pwBPD is like helped me detach from what I was projecting into my BPDh.  Understanding and detaching is what saved me.

Sending warm thoughts your way as you travel through your own dark valley.   

-H&P

[hope2727]

Hi Helplessly,

I just wanted to reach out to you and say that I am so glad you came back and posted again. I was really worried about you. You have been in my thoughts these past few days.

I am so sorry that you are in such profound pain. I can only tell you that there are people here who care. I don't know how to ease it for you but I can say that I have truly felt so devastated that I didn't think there was anyway out of the suffering.

Like you I sincerely love my ex. He is long gone from my life and we have no contact. This is best for both of us. It is to painful for either of us to be in touch. I do understand how you can love someone that you can't be with. I also understand how excruciating the keen aching pain of missing them can be. A very supportive psychologist recommended I read "How to Survive the Loss of a Love" by Peter McWilliams Harold H. Bloomfield Melba Cosgrove. I have gifted several copies through the years and worn my own out completely with the re-reading. OF all the things I have used that (and expensive ice-cream) have been the best. I know that sounds ridiculous but its true. At almost $200 an hour for the psychologist, endless research, hundred of hours and everything else that stupid little book has helped the most. I hope it brings you some small degree of comfort.

Meanwhile please know that you are not alone. We are out here reading your words and supporting you from afar. You are worthy and deserving a healthy happy relationship.

Your love is real. It is valid. We loved them the best we knew how. It is all we can do in life.

Take care and keep posting.

     

[Meili]

We loved them the best we knew how. It is all we can do in life.

This is so true and something that we should all remember. We did the best that we could with the tools that we had available at that moment.