validation fatigue?

[mousemat]

A question for those who are good at (or if that's not the right term) experienced at validating their partner's emotions, in particular when the partner is upset and in 'angry child' mode.

Do you ever get tired of it, and just throw your hands up in the air and think "oh I can't keep this up forever"... .?

I'm only starting to learn this 'art', thanks to this site.  But it's very quickly starting to feel like doing it repeatedly just keeps the focus on him (where he wants it) and drains me of energy.

Any thoughts?

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[once removed]

hi mousemat,

sure, these can be frustrating relationships, and we cant get it right every time.

can you give us an example of some of the more challenging moments for you?

[flourdust]

Validating can be tiring. See, I can validate your frustration with validating. 

It's also not a panacea for any situation. Can you say a bit more -- what situations are you trying to validate in? Does it work better in some situations than others? Which ones are causing you the most frustration?

[bananas2]

Hi mousemat & welcome!  

I can only speak for myself, but yes, I do get tired of it. I get tired of validating, carefully wording, being so cautious in my body language, etc. It's hard sometimes to not get resentful & exhausted. It seems so unfair. But then, in my better & more enlightened moments, I remember that BPD is a disorder - a disorder that my partner did not want or ask for, in the same way that my physical disability is something I didn't ask for. And then that brings me back to "radical acceptance." I can only change myself, not him. I choose to remain in this relationship and work to improve it to the best of my ability. Some days that ability is better than others. But we are only human.

I suggest reading the "What Does It Take To Make It?" listed under the "Perspective Articles" to the right. >

I'm glad you found us, and I look forward to hearing more from you.

[EmpatheticWife2B]

Hi @mousemat

I haven't been on the forum for a couple of months now, because I have been validating like CRAZY so I feel your frustration. I just logged in today and your entry was at the top of the board, what a coincidence.

My experience is that validation does work very well with my bf, which makes doing so worth it (for me) but it can be exhausting. He becomes disregulated, by my observation, about every two weeks. It can last anywhere from 1-3 days and is almost always caused by his insecurities and feelings of worthlessness. From reading the books about BPD and joining this forum, I've learned not to take his outbursts personally as a result, even when his outbursts are specifically directed at me in the most venemous way. Sometimes the accusations can be so very illogical and bizarre that is becomes almost impossible to validate his feelings. I've learned to recognize that the validating doesn't mean agreeing with the awful things he accuses me of, but recognizing that it feels that way to HIM in a very real way.

Recently, I've also practiced silence in place of validating. I've found that just listening to him intently without responding, gives him some time to hear his own voice, hear himself saying these things that don't make sense. My active silence seems to allow him a little time to run things through his head a few more times, and sometimes he actually comes to the conclusion that things are really not quite as bad as it initially seemed. I wonder sometimes if he's concluding (but not admitting to it) that what he's just freaked out over isn't even a real event, that he may have actually gotten it wrong.

The metaphor I use is when a cat is frightened out of it's mind it might jump up and cling to the top of the curtains or run up a tree to seek safety in the branches; once they've calmed down they return purring. So while validation often works, sometimes just that silence  - not the kind that ignores, but rather the kind where I'm nodding with empathy and understanding but not exactly agreeing with him out loud - that silence works well from time to time. He's the cat clinging to the top of the curtain (his "angry child" and I hold this silence for him as much as possible to create a peaceful space. He slowly comes down. He may still insist on his point of view, but he's no longer screaming and spiraling out of control.

When to know to use validation or silence? I don't know, I'm new to this too. The relationship has just passed one year, and it's been a hell of year. We came close to breaking up several times. I think the validation works for me when there is at least SOME truth to what he's reeling about, but when it's completely a work of fiction crafted in his imagination, I use the silence. It's not so exhausting for me to validate when I can find at least some semblance of logic in what he's saying; but for those times when he's really off the planet, I just listen and give him the room.

That's my 2 cents. Hope it helps.
We're all in this together and trying to help those we love.

[mousemat]

I'm glad you found us, and I look forward to hearing more from you.

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

can you give us an example of some of the more challenging moments for you?

Well, the pattern that seems to be emerging is along the lines of:
1)  something upsets him, like a tradesman last weekend who stuffed up something important during our home renovation (I don't have an issue with him being upset about it, as it is a genuinely big issue)
2)  I start validating his emotions/reactions
3)  this doesn't seem to calm him down, he stays upset and repeats himself a lot
4)  I keep validating, but after a short while I start to think "okay, how much longer do I have to do this for", and ... .
5)  ... .because he's so (irritatingly) good at picking up the slightest change in my emotional state, he spots it and zeros in, telling me I'm not being supportive/understanding
6)  I then reflexively go back to my old, well-worn and utterly failed way of responding, which is to try and reason with him about his reactions ... .and chaos results.

*sigh*

Maybe I'm just not patient enough.

[Tattered Heart]

It does get wearisome at times. It's unfair that we have to focus so much on communicating. But would I rather have to constantly validate, listen, empathize or listen to my H rage? I'll choose validating.

You're just getting started so it may seem uncomfortable for you. Your motivations for validating may not quite be in line yet so it still feels forced. When I start to get weary of validating I remind myself that I am not validating to stop him from blowing up. I'm validating because he is feeling hurt, scared, alone, and I want to help him feel loved, supported, and accepted. That's what I would want if I was caught up in my own emotions.

Is there a particular situation that is growing wearisome? Do you feel like you're doing or saying the same thing over and over?

[Tattered Heart]

Well, the pattern that seems to be emerging is along the lines of:
1)  something upsets him, like a tradesman last weekend who stuffed up something important during our home renovation (I don't have an issue with him being upset about it, as it is a genuinely big issue)
2)  I start validating his emotions/reactions
3)  this doesn't seem to calm him down, he stays upset and repeats himself a lot
4)  I keep validating, but after a short while I start to think "okay, how much longer do I have to do this for", and ... .
5)  ... .because he's so (irritatingly) good at picking up the slightest change in my emotional state, he spots it and zeros in, telling me I'm not being supportive/understanding
6)  I then reflexively go back to my old, well-worn and utterly failed way of responding, which is to try and reason with him about his reactions ... .and chaos results.

When you validate what are you saying? What is your goal when you validate? That might helps us key in on what could be happening. If you're thinking "How much longer do I have to do this for?" It could be an indication that your purpose in validation may be off.

[mousemat]

If you're thinking "How much longer do I have to do this for?" It could be an indication that your purpose in validation may be off.

Ah, that is a really interesting point.   I have to go to work now, but I'll ponder it during the day and get back to you... .

[once removed]

Tattered Heart is dead on. a key part of validation is sincerity. if its forced, it will be received that way.

5)  ... .because he's so (irritatingly) good at picking up the slightest change in my emotional state, he spots it and zeros in, telling me I'm not being supportive/understanding
6)  I then reflexively go back to my old, well-worn and utterly failed way of responding, which is to try and reason with him about his reactions ... .and chaos results.

if this is a new approach for you, not only will it be uncomfortable for you at first, it will be uncomfortable for him, and he may be looking for indication that youre not sincere.

to echo flourdust, there are other tools in the tool belt too. i know when im angry, im not necessarily looking for validation, and it can even feel patronizing. a lot of the time, id prefer to have someone just Listen with Empathy (https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy). sometimes i may just need some space to stew.

TH asked some good questions. can you give us some examples of how you approach validating?

[P.F.Change]

Hi, mousemat,

I do find myself with validation fatigue sometimes. It requires a lot of attention to do well. Recently the thought crossed my mind during a professional interaction, that I would much prefer to just say what I think without doing all the work to make it "nice." Yet, my mind tends to be strategic and visualize all the pros and cons. I know that if one of the outcomes I desire is that people will be more receptive to hearing my thoughts or requests, then using the tools is one of the most effective means to achieve that. At home, it can feel like it takes more work because when there is conflict in an intimate relationship, it tends to already be emotionally heavy, and it's easier to fall into knee-jerk reaction patterns. But again, I usually find using validation tools is more effective for de-escalating conflicts and making my partner feel heard, which are both things I want to do in order to stay married and be as happy as possible. So, it makes sense. Sometimes that's enough to motivate me to keep spending energy on it. If I don't have energy to spend, I acknowledge that and try to take a break.

Two thoughts: You don't have to validate everything, and you can validate while also asserting your own separate feelings or position.

One important distinction I learned here is not to validate the invalid. Feelings are always valid--they are neither good nor bad, they just "are"--but behaviors may be "invalid" (or rather, undesireable or ineffective--every behavior has some valid logical reason for happening). Anger? Pain? Valid. Punching holes in the house? Plotting revenge? "Invalid." We can find kernels of valid truth to use in the feelings and circumstances behind those behaviors without reinforcing the ineffective or untrue beliefs. So, there may be times when you choose not to validate, and that is ok.

What kinds of validation techniques are you practicing in your relationship with your husband? My favorite one by far is Communicate-S.E.T.(Support, Empathy, and Truth). It is easy to remember and helps me validate while giving me room to have my own opinions and beliefs. I need to take care of myself and my values, too. There are some other good tools I'm brushing up on here, such as PUVAS and DEARMAN:Communicate-Listen and Be Heard. Have you used any of those before?

P.F.

[Lakebreeze]

It's incredibly exhausting trying to validate everything that is going to come your way from a BPD. And you have to take care of you too. It's been six months now that I learned about BPD and started trying to validate my uBPDh. So I can totally relate to the feeling of validation exhaustion. There is just one thing I want to add (lots of great answers on this thread already). A therapist pointed out my own tendency to stuggle for the "perfect" answer, with the attitude that if I could just validate perfectly things would be better. Well, that's not true. Yes, validate if you can. But don't beat yourself up if it wasn't perfect. And cut yourself some slack if you need to sit out the next rollar coaster ride and just stay silent. Good luck!

[mousemat]

Before I respond, I'd like to say that as someone with a self-esteem that hasn't been very 'up' of late, having a group of people take the time to share relevant experiences and offer useful advice is humbling and has made me feel kinda emotional today.  I'm deeply grateful.

You are right.  Over the past couple of years, but especially in the last few weeks, I have been increasingly driven by frustration and sadness at our situation.  But above all, I've been angry with him.  Angry that he's not the partner I want him to be; angry that almost every day I find myself dealing with stuff that I shouldn't have to.

But what you're saying has made me stop and look back, and I don't think I'd realised how angry I've been at times.  I guess it's no wonder his behaviour has been increasingly desperate & unpredictable.  I love him and I really, really don't want to hurt him.

I am not validating to stop him from blowing up. I'm validating because he is feeling hurt, scared, alone, and I want to help him feel loved, supported, and accepted. That's what I would want if I was caught up in my own emotions.

I can clearly see the difference between that and what I was trying to achieve.  I was doing it to get him off my back.  It was for me, not for him.

In my better & more enlightened moments, I remember that BPD is a disorder - a disorder that my partner did not want or ask for, in the same way that my physical disability is something I didn't ask for.

... .and reading that reminded me that I have ADHD, diagnosed & with treatment.  When I leave my wallet at home after offering to pay for dinner, or forget to buy milk, or stop listening to him talk about his day because the leftover slice of cheesecake in the fridge popped into my head - and do that sort of stuff regularly - he rarely criticises me for it, unlike my previous partner.  He just seems to be okay with it, and I haven't given him much credit for that.

My experience is that validation does work very well with my bf, which makes doing so worth it

That is so nice to hear.  (Although you sound like someone with the patience of a saint.)  

I've bookmarked the various articles/links mentioned, and I'll work my way through them over the weekend.  I have a lot of learning to do, and a probably lot of ground to make up.

[waverider]

When you try to validate when you really dont feel like it then it is false and doesn't sell well.  To effectively validate continuously it takes a change in your personality and outlook. That doesn't happen overnight.

Focus more on trying not to invalidate, as opposed to just validate. It is easier to do on the principle of less is more, and it is very easy to invalidate while trying to validate, it is a fine line.

No matter what you do you wont be able to prevent everything. The important thing is to recognise what the dynamics are, so that even if you can't prevent triggering you can head off, or at least not feed into, escalations.

There are also times when you just cant be bothered and take your carers hat off and let whatever happens just happen. It will blow over then pick up again after.

Dont forget to look after you, and dont throw yourself under the bus trying to stop it.

[Tattered Heart]

I've bookmarked the various articles/links mentioned, and I'll work my way through them over the weekend.  I have a lot of learning to do, and a probably lot of ground to make up.

Just remember. This stuff takes time. As long as you are willing to do the work, you'll get there. But these are all new concepts and our relationships didn't get unhealthy overnight. For many of us it's years of unhealthy patterns, feelings, and behaviors that stem back not only into our current relationship, but into our childhood.

And sometimes, validation just doesn't work. Your pwBPD's emotional level may just be too high.