Just really admitting it, finally

[2sobermom]

My 30-yo son is 5 or so years 'clean' from a 10-year bout with drugs, including heroin addiction. He can't get a job at present. But he doesn't try very hard.  Husband helps him with rent.  Son creates vaping juice to sell, makes computers, works on cars, and between him and his roomie and Dad's help, just gets by. He also puts rants on FB about world economics, and social injustices, etc. 
I am 33 years sober from alcoholism, and also was a chemical dep. counselor, and graduated in psych as well. Husb. is a successful professional guy. We are both 70; had our kids late.

From describing his bouts of unreasonable anger and conflicts in the past, my own therapist has commented that it appears that Son has BPD.  Then a period of time will pass where things are calm and amiable, and I say that Son's addiction and ADHD maybe combined to allow him to get out of control at times.  True that ADHD people have trouble getting off their emotional track once locked on it.

But now, there was just another donnybrook, the night before last, where Son was in a heated argument with his roommate and called Dad to try to pull him into it. Dad wouldn't bite and advised him to try to get a hold of his emotions, etc, which took close to a half-hour. The next day when they were to meet for lunch, they ended up having a 3-hour fight.  Dad has a hard time not taking the bait.  Son claimed all 5 treatment centers and drug court did him wrong, and only jail time was a good thing.  Certain other facts about his failed attempt to get started at college were totally distorted; he doesn't remember at all why he was kicked out of the house, even though we had explained it several times, and have discussed it calmly, and he'd even said that was the best thing that could have happened to him, etc.  In other words, distorted memory, and also attacked the same Dad he praised the week before. Black and white.

I am just now really sorting this out.  People in recovery do get most of their memory back; thus the need to 'make amends"... .he has no such view of his using years.  It was bad; he didn't get his H.S. diploma till age 28 because he was too high to go to any school, and/or in jail or treatment.  Also hospitals.  But he remembers little of these years and how it really was. In his calmer moments, he will express regret over time wasted, and that's about it.

He is currently seeing a psychologist who specializes in ADHD, addiction, and adolescent disorders. He told Dad yesterday that that therapist stated that his treatments stays were bad for him.  Again, the self-reporting goes both ways; what the therapist hears and what we hear.

I am glad to be able to vent.  My hope at this point is that the therapist will spot the 3 disorders, the BPD being the worst in my opinion, and get Son pointed toward health. meanwhile, hopefully, I can get Dad to learn about not taking the bait.  I mostly am able to stay out of it, but my feelings are just as involved as anyone else's. Right now, a lot of despair.

We have another son 17 months older who is doing fine and a productive and loving soul. In his better times, the BPD has a very loving heart, and others can see it too.  So I pray a lot.

Thanks. I look forward to finding others here and seeing how they are dealing. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Hi 2sobermom

Welcome to bpdfamily    That's some journey, congratulations on your sobriety and your son clean for 5 years. This is a safe place to vent, get it all out there helps us sort things through, make changes. As you say hope the therapist recognises any BPD traits. How long has your son been seeing his therapist?

Distorted memories are difficult to deal with when ours are different. Dad did well not to take the bite and get involved in the argument with the room mate, it's more difficult when it's just you. Does he fight with Dad a lot, 3 hours is a long time  ?  I thought this might be useful to share, are there any tips that maybe helpful?
JADE: justify argue defend explain

I'm so pleased you've found us and I hope you learn as much as I have from the support of everyone here and resources, it's been a life changing experience, I'm so very grateful for that  

WDx

[2sobermom]

Thanks for the responses to my posting. I feel welcomed!
 I am pretty well trained to not argue, but it's sure stressful when BPD son and his dad do it.  DH is very much into JADE.  Being a lawyer, he must argue!  Perfect setup for when son is on the warpath.
I am trying to educate myself more about this disorder, and will share what I learn with husband, and he does want to be better able to deal with these storms, but doesn't read self-help stuff much. He reads and writes for a living, and that's his excuse. It's OK with me; after all these years, that's what we've done--I pass on what I think is useful.
I need to read more of what people are writing to learn more... .

[wendydarling]

Hi 2sobermom

Goodness, how did I manage to land on JADE from your first post, think it may have been reference to the 3 hours. That is a perfect set up as you say when son is on the war path. Yes, JADE most often applied in an adversarial relationship like in a court of law where there's a clear winner and a clear loser, rather than when we are trying to connect with people by how we communicate as we do here, learning skills to change our communication style engaging with emotionally sensitive people, the skills improve all relationships not just those with BPD.

As BPD is very broad I found it extremely helpful in understanding the context of my 29DD's BPD, she is a 'quiet' BPD, have you read any books Book Reviews My go to is Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder, Shari Y Manning some of the practical tools you'll find here.

Is your son on medication for ADHD?

WDx

[livednlearned]

Hi 2sobermom,

I wanted to join wendydarling in welcoming you, and congratulating you on your 33 years of sobriety 

It is fortunate that your family has you recognizing that something is a bit more off than might be typical, that the behaviors could be BPD.

Do you notice if your son gets more dysregulated when he talks about his addiction treatments? One of the things I found helpful in Shari Manning's book (it was either that book or Valerie Porr's Overcoming BPD) is that some topics are so triggering it can be best to have a loving phrase you use that signals the conversation has been discussed and it is not helpful to the relationship to rehash, especially if you are the target.

My partner is like your DH, in that he tends to want to litigate 

So I use the validation and SET skills on him 

Validating questions can be very helpful here. If he gets pulled into a circular argument and wants to recap it with me, I often will simply say "Oh?" "And then what?" And commit to questions.

Maybe something like that will work for your dynamic, although I know there can be so many variables it is hard to know what will stick, what won't stick.

I realized my issues with D20 were relatively straightforward because they were about my boundaries with her. But the issues with SO took a lot longer to sort out because I assumed he was a rational actor. Except when it comes to D20, he's not 

[2sobermom]

Not sure if i'm doing these replies right as I'm new.  To Wendy, we did use ADHD meds in son's teens thru maybe 21, when he was clearly abusing them.  He was a meth addict after that, and then heroin, and got off that with methadone, but it's been many years now.  And at this point, the subject of Rx for ADHD is not something anyone is comfortable with.  Just in summer of '16, he was quite messed up, and we were pretty sure drugs were involved, and he admitted to mj, but that's all the farther we got.  We were willing to drop it and not dwell on it after he got straightened out again.

I'm pretty sure the polydrug use is self-medication for emotional pain; the part he's doing well with is staying straight for periods of time despite his mood catapulting.

Son can have several months of quietude, with some depression, like your daughter.  he's an enjoyable person then. The fights happen about twice a year with Dad, so now after things feel calmer for Dad, we'll talk about SET, which is what I've been intuitively practicing with Son.
It's all hard for me to face, as I just faced my mom's BPD and am still learning how to heal from that.  Compartmentalizing people in my mind is difficult, and dealing with the same helpless feelings happening again, is my personal bugaboo.  I keep walking the path.

[2sobermom]

you said,\ the part about signalling that the conversation was had and no need to rehash.  Have used that and glad you brought it up.  Son will try to go over and over the same ground if we let him.

And we both know that "winning" arguments is not a productive goal with these people!  I want Son to know he's been heard, AND did he know such and such?  I will bring up something we haven't talked about before to steer him in another direction off the well-worn path. one thing about having ADHD: he's easily distracted, so that's a plus.

interesting that you say your x-partner is not a rational actor except when it comes to Dau!  It could be that someday he can apply what he's learned here to other areas of his life?

[livednlearned]

It could be that someday he can apply what he's learned here to other areas of his life?

He has a hard time accepting that his D has bipolar II, much less BPD. She had a psychotic break (hearing voices, delusions) at age 16 and was diagnosed as having major depressive disorder with psychosis, which was then upgraded to bipolar II, with meds to follow. Except none of that explains the terrifying fear of abandonment and intense interpersonal stress she experiences, with most of her friendships if not all lasting roughly 3 months. Everyone agrees she suffers from BPD symptoms (volatile relationships, fear of being abandoned, push/pull behaviors, suicidal ideation, etc.), but no one will connect the dots.

So all I can do is model the skills and hope SO will pick them up and try them himself.