My ex girlfriend

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello everyone;

This is my first time posting here. I can't remember the last time I've posted in forums on a website, must have been years. But this website with its posts greatly helped me gain insight about my ex girlfriend and her behavior, we broke up three months ago, and I'm not really sure why I'm posting but I guess I still need more insight.

Let me begin. I met this girl on a dating website, whenever we talked, almost always one of us had to say something really rude that made us stop talking. This happened quite a few times, until one time we just really clicked, I think we were both really lonely and needed a connection and that time.

I work in the oil field, it's a month work/month vacation. We started clicking during my working month, everything was awesome. I've never felt this fascinated with someone before, specially because I felt she was so into me, she was so intense, spontaneous and knew how to perfectly put her feelings to words, it kinda made me feel alive. I was very attracted to her. Two weeks after chatting, she told me that she loves me. I told her I loved her too, but then questioned if she really meant what she said because it was still too soon. She told me it's something she felt in the heat of the moment, and doesn't have to be a fixed line that we tell each other every day.

Anyway, we continued chatting, she marked the day I'm coming home from work on the calendar, and told me to bring a lubricant to have several rounds of sex (I haven't even met her yet), even though this made me a bit uncomfortable, and even though these were red flags, I was too blinded by how much she was into me that I ignored it.

I got home, we almost met everyday. We didn't go out much, we basically watched a lot of shows, she used to cook for me. And we had amazing sex. I gave her my credit card so she could buy books online, I suggested going out a couple of times but she told me that it's okay and she likes staying home anyway. Now after finishing the month at home, I was returning back for work. So it became a long distance relationship again. First week, things were great. Then one day I texted ''hey'', and only got a response back from her at midnight, claiming her female friend was over at her house (She invited her for dinner), I told her she could have told me about it so that I wouldn't get worried not knowing anything about where she is. Then she got absolutely defensive and abusive, telling me that I'm way more sensitive because I'm in the desert, telling me that it doesn't matter when she told me about it as long as she told me about. I found her behavior very surprising and for no reason, while explaining that to her. She stopped responding, only to respond hours later with a ''hey'', while completely dismissing my messages. I had no idea what to say to her, it felt like I was talking to someone who refuses to understand or communicate. I didn't respond to her and took some distance. Two days later, she texts, telling me that she really misses me, wondering if I'll ever talk to her again. I told her directly that it was unacceptable to dismiss all my messages and pretend I didn't say anything. Her response ''My friend forgot the keys in my house, and when she came back to get it, she was with this guy I danced Salsa with two years ago, so we were catching up, when I finished with him and saw your messages, I didn't know how to jump back to the conversation''

I'm sorry I'm describing this in so much detail, but her behavior was really weird, I was alone in an oil rig, not really knowing what's going on with her or why she's acting this way. To sum it up, she kept inducing jealousy the whole month I was at work, telling me about other guys, going clubbing, and whenever I needed reassurance about anything, she would either get distant or abusive. This made me feel greatly insecure to the point of crying, and I'm usually not someone who cries easily. In fact, it was the first time I even cry in my life. I stopped talking to her. She kept trying to talk to me (As if absolutely nothing happened, which made her a very scary person to deal with). I distanced myself. Then one week later, I felt guilty, guilty that we didn't communicate directly, and thinking that maybe she doesn't know why I distanced myself since she speaks normally. So I got back to talking to her, trying to confront her about her abusive behavior, but she completely changed the subject, told me that she thinks direct communication is a bad idea (Yes, she literally said that). Told me that she dated other guys in the week I wasn't talking to her, and that I remind her of a very bad relationship. Instead of walking away as I should have done in the first place without looking back, I panicked, I begged, and I pleaded. I was very emotionally weak, being all alone there for a whole month. We were talking again, but still distant from each other. I felt like I was pursuing her. After I got home, we agreed we would meet and when I asked her when, she said ''Anytime you want but not today and not tomorrow as I'm very tired from work'', we haven't seen each other in a month, it was very clear how disinterested she got in me, and the fact I was still trying to talk to her made me feel pathetic. I couldn't take it anymore, and I told her if she has nothing to talk about, I'll just come and take my stuff. She told me that she'll just leave them in an envelope by the door (Yep, I guess she had already lost all respect for me for not being strong enough to talk away, I guess), then she blocked me on whatsapp and facebook. I went and got my things. One week later, she unblocks me from facebook. One week after that, she unblocks me from whatsapp, and tells me that she misses me. I responded, told her that I miss her too. I guess I was still emotionally weak. Then she kept talking as if nothing happened (again), so I couldn't take it and ended the conversation, told her that I had to go. 10 days after that, she texts again, asks me if I have plans for Eid (We live in a Muslim country), I responded, answered her questions politely, then told her that I had to go. Two weeks after that, she calls me. I had already traveled for work by then and never saw the missed call until later, but I never called her back. We haven't talked since then, it's been three months, I think she probably is dating someone, and I started dating a few women casually too, and reconnected with some female friends.

I feel much, much better now than I felt before. More centered, less weak. But I'm finding it hard to forgive her for her behavior, or myself for being too weak to actually not stand up for myself and basically talk to her whenever she felt like talking again. It's kind of making me stuck, I still remember those texts, the abusive texts (She never got abusive in real life, I think I'm actually too calm in real life that she probably couldn't do it, even though she criticized me a lot). I keep remembering the time I was weak. I keep remembering the times she was hateful towards me and how it made me feel. I remember it all, but I know for a fact that it's getting better with time.

I still miss her, and I know for a fact she isn't good for me, I had this funny feeling from the beginning that we were toxic for each other, yet I was too obsessed, too addicted to admit it to myself.

I know I'm never talking to her again, I'm not afraid of breaking NC and talking, it's easy to never talk. But how do I stop missing her or think of how badly she started treating me for no real reason? By the way, I'm not devout of any wrongs here. I called her a ___ two times, and probably triggered her abandonment fear by distancing myself and never talking to her after every time she turned abusive, which made things worse probably.

I think this post really describes our relationship, with me being the lonely child and her being the abandoned child www.maybe-more.tumblr.com/post/104463729068/its-a-miracle-anyone-gets-along

What do you guys think? Any advice?

[Danny_99]

Hello everyone;

This is my first time posting here. I can't remember the last time I've posted in forums on a website, must have been years. But this website with its posts greatly helped me gain insight about my ex girlfriend and her behavior, we broke up three months ago, and I'm not really sure why I'm posting but I guess I still need more insight.

Let me begin. I met this girl on a dating website, whenever we talked, almost always one of us had to say something really rude that made us stop talking. This happened quite a few times, until one time we just really clicked, I think we were both really lonely and needed a connection and that time.

I work in the oil field, it's a month work/month vacation. We started clicking during my working month, everything was awesome. I've never felt this fascinated with someone before, specially because I felt she was so into me, she was so intense, spontaneous and knew how to perfectly put her feelings to words, it kinda made me feel alive. I was very attracted to her. Two weeks after chatting, she told me that she loves me. I told her I loved her too, but then questioned if she really meant what she said because it was still too soon. She told me it's something she felt in the heat of the moment, and doesn't have to be a fixed line that we tell each other every day.

Anyway, we continued chatting, she marked the day I'm coming home from work on the calendar, and told me to bring a lubricant to have several rounds of sex (I haven't even met her yet), even though this made me a bit uncomfortable, and even though these were red flags, I was too blinded by how much she was into me that I ignored it.

I got home, we almost met everyday. We didn't go out much, we basically watched a lot of shows, she used to cook for me. And we had amazing sex. I gave her my credit card so she could buy books online, I suggested going out a couple of times but she told me that it's okay and she likes staying home anyway. Now after finishing the month at home, I was returning back for work. So it became a long distance relationship again. First week, things were great. Then one day I texted ''hey'', and only got a response back from her at midnight, claiming her female friend was over at her house (She invited her for dinner), I told her she could have told me about it so that I wouldn't get worried not knowing anything about where she is. Then she got absolutely defensive and abusive, telling me that I'm way more sensitive because I'm in the desert, telling me that it doesn't matter when she told me about it as long as she told me about. I found her behavior very surprising and for no reason, while explaining that to her. She stopped responding, only to respond hours later with a ''hey'', while completely dismissing my messages. I had no idea what to say to her, it felt like I was talking to someone who refuses to understand or communicate. I didn't respond to her and took some distance. Two days later, she texts, telling me that she really misses me, wondering if I'll ever talk to her again. I told her directly that it was unacceptable to dismiss all my messages and pretend I didn't say anything. Her response ''My friend forgot the keys in my house, and when she came back to get it, she was with this guy I danced Salsa with two years ago, so we were catching up, when I finished with him and saw your messages, I didn't know how to jump back to the conversation''

I'm sorry I'm describing this in so much detail, but her behavior was really weird, I was alone in an oil rig, not really knowing what's going on with her or why she's acting this way. To sum it up, she kept inducing jealousy the whole month I was at work, telling me about other guys, going clubbing, and whenever I needed reassurance about anything, she would either get distant or abusive. This made me feel greatly insecure to the point of crying, and I'm usually not someone who cries easily. In fact, it was the first time I even cry in my life. I stopped talking to her. She kept trying to talk to me (As if absolutely nothing happened, which made her a very scary person to deal with). I distanced myself. Then one week later, I felt guilty, guilty that we didn't communicate directly, and thinking that maybe she doesn't know why I distanced myself since she speaks normally. So I got back to talking to her, trying to confront her about her abusive behavior, but she completely changed the subject, told me that she thinks direct communication is a bad idea (Yes, she literally said that). Told me that she dated other guys in the week I wasn't talking to her, and that I remind her of a very bad relationship. Instead of walking away as I should have done in the first place without looking back, I panicked, I begged, and I pleaded. I was very emotionally weak, being all alone there for a whole month. We were talking again, but still distant from each other. I felt like I was pursuing her. After I got home, we agreed we would meet and when I asked her when, she said ''Anytime you want but not today and not tomorrow as I'm very tired from work'', we haven't seen each other in a month, it was very clear how disinterested she got in me, and the fact I was still trying to talk to her made me feel pathetic. I couldn't take it anymore, and I told her if she has nothing to talk about, I'll just come and take my stuff. She told me that she'll just leave them in an envelope by the door (Yep, I guess she had already lost all respect for me for not being strong enough to talk away, I guess), then she blocked me on whatsapp and facebook. I went and got my things. One week later, she unblocks me from facebook. One week after that, she unblocks me from whatsapp, and tells me that she misses me. I responded, told her that I miss her too. I guess I was still emotionally weak. Then she kept talking as if nothing happened (again), so I couldn't take it and ended the conversation, told her that I had to go. 10 days after that, she texts again, asks me if I have plans for Eid (We live in a Muslim country), I responded, answered her questions politely, then told her that I had to go. Two weeks after that, she calls me. I had already traveled for work by then and never saw the missed call until later, but I never called her back. We haven't talked since then, it's been three months, I think she probably is dating someone, and I started dating a few women casually too, and reconnected with some female friends.

I feel much, much better now than I felt before. More centered, less weak. But I'm finding it hard to forgive her for her behavior, or myself for being too weak to actually not stand up for myself and basically talk to her whenever she felt like talking again. It's kind of making me stuck, I still remember those texts, the abusive texts (She never got abusive in real life, I think I'm actually too calm in real life that she probably couldn't do it, even though she criticized me a lot). I keep remembering the time I was weak. I keep remembering the times she was hateful towards me and how it made me feel. I remember it all, but I know for a fact that it's getting better with time.

I still miss her, and I know for a fact she isn't good for me, I had this funny feeling from the beginning that we were toxic for each other, yet I was too obsessed, too addicted to admit it to myself.

I know I'm never talking to her again, I'm not afraid of breaking NC and talking, it's easy to never talk. But how do I stop missing her or think of how badly she started treating me for no real reason? By the way, I'm not devout of any wrongs here. I called her a ___ two times, and probably triggered her abandonment fear by distancing myself and never talking to her after every time she turned abusive, which made things worse probably.

I think this post really describes our relationship, with me being the lonely child and her being the abandoned child www.maybe-more.tumblr.com/post/104463729068/its-a-miracle-anyone-gets-along

What do you guys think? Any advice?

[Mutt]

Hi Danny_99,

To sum it up, she kept inducing jealousy the whole month I was at work, telling me about other guys, going clubbing, and whenever I needed reassurance about anything, she would either get distant or abusive.

She sounds like someone that feels very insecure about themselves and fears rejection. A lot of the defensive behaviours with BPD that protects the person against rejection is very damaging in relationships, it's self defeating behaviour. I think that she was trying to reject you before you reject her, you're working for a living and she's taking the distance personally. A pwBPD anticipate that everyone that enters their lives will at some point ultiamtely reject them which goes back to what I said about self destructive behaviours.

I feel much, much better now than I felt before. More centered, less weak. But I'm finding it hard to forgive her for her behavior, or myself for being too weak to actually not stand up for myself and basically talk to her whenever she felt like talking again.

I'm glad to hear that things are back to normal again, life is not perfect, we're not perfect, we have good moments with bad moments and well have our moments of weakness. I think that she met you at the right time where you felt lonely because of the type of work that you do. Maybe you think that it's impossible to meet someone that will work around your schedule a pwBPD attach themselves very quickly and she met a need for you at the time. Take it for what it is, it's a learning experience, life is a learning curve.

I called her a ___ two times, and probably triggered her abandonment fear by distancing myself and never talking to her after every time she turned abusive, which made things worse probably.

Don't be hard on yourself, it sounds like you were trying to come to a solution and she's the exact opposite, she doesn't have the emotional maturity to problem solve, she pushed your buttons. A pwBPD know how to push your buttons and they will push all of them at once. Lastly, you're not responsible for someone else's feelings, if she wasn't interested in something positive and constructive, I can understand wanting to have space from that person, like you said they are toxic behaviors are and emotionally exhaustive.

I have a question, can you explain what you mean when you said that you could go without talking to her again and you could talk to her again?

[Danny_99]

Thank you so much Mutt for your response and support.

I'm glad to hear that things are back to normal again, life is not perfect, we're not perfect, we have good moments with bad moments and well have our moments of weakness. I think that she met you at the right time where you felt lonely because of the type of work that you do. Maybe you think that it's impossible to meet someone that will work around your schedule a pwBPD attach themselves very quickly and she met a need for you at the time. Take it for what it is, it's a learning experience, life is a learning curve.

That is so true, I find it very hard to maintain a relationship with my work schedule, you're right, it was a time I really needed her, because I actually pursued her until she opened up to me. But I never, ever had any intention of deceiving her or playing with her feelings. I'm a very honest, truthful person, I was honest to her about everything, and I was honest to her about my work schedule and how it affects my relationships.

Also the funny thing about inducing jealousy is that she would get extremely mad whenever I mentioned a girl (Any girl, in any situation). Which indeed does show a great insecurity.

Don't be hard on yourself, it sounds like you were trying to come to a solution and she's the exact opposite, she doesn't have the emotional maturity to problem solve, she pushed your buttons. A pwBPD know how to push your buttons and they will push all of them at once. Lastly, you're not responsible for someone else's feelings, if she wasn't interested in something positive and constructive, I can understand wanting to have space from that person, like you said they are toxic behaviors are and emotionally exhaustive.

To be honest, I am usually hard on myself. I think it's something I have since childhood. I should probably work on that and focus on forgiving myself. But it's still somehow true that I could have handled the situation differently, walked away a bit sooner, but like you said, it is what is is and I will just take it as a learning experience, because it really is. I've learned a lot about myself during this small time we were together.

I have a question, can you explain what you mean when you said that you could go without talking to her again and you could talk to her again?

I meant that it's easy for me to not initiate contact with her, I don't find that hard (Specially after learning about BPD), she contacted me three times since the break up, and every time just showed how immature and delusional she is, which enforced my decision to never talk to her. Even though I know she isn't deliberately this way, and it's just how her mind works. (To be honest I might have caved in if she apologized for her behavior and showed remorse, but I'm glad she didn't, because the cycle would probably repeat itself again, but only worse). I guess what I'm trying to do is to stop thinking about her, I still feel a little bit emotionally and sexually attached to her. Damn, I really miss the sex. I had sex with a few girls after her, but it was nothing like her. Probably because there wasn't an emotional attachment with those women, unlike how emotionally attached I was with her.

It really does get better with time, I've seen and felt that.

Another funny thing, she would share with me her conversations with her mom, and sometimes complain about how her mom dismisses her messages and continues talking anyway. When I saw the conversations, it was exactly like her. I really think her mom has BPD too. The way her mom treats her was the same exact way she treats me sometimes. That was funny, but I'm never telling her that of course.

I also don't feel like blocking her (even though she blocked me after the break up then unblocked me). But I know for a fact that it will hurt her, and I never really want to hurt her.

The hardest thing I went through during this relationship was the projection. She would get extremely angry and aggressive, tell me my way of talking is passive-aggressive, twisted, tortured, and that I'm sensitive. I really was starting to doubt she was right, and I was the one at fault, which sort of made me keep going back. But knowledge is power, when I learned about projection, it was so clear that she was indeed projecting what she's feeling about herself, her sensitivity, her insecurity. She would gaslight me too, tell me that I'm hiding, and then stops talking, and when I ask her what she means, she would change the subject. It really made me insecure, made me question my own sanity, but as soon as I came back home, I started reading about BPD, joined this awesome website, and that really made me see things for what they are.

Thank you so much

[Mutt]

Hi Danny_99

My pleasure. 

I guess what I'm trying to do is to stop thinking about her, I still feel a little bit emotionally and sexually attached to her.

I can imagine thinking about her on your downtime, you still have downtime after you finish your workday when you're away. It sounds like you're out meeting new people when you're off, what do you do for enjoyment? Do you have hobbies.
                        

She would get extremely angry and aggressive, tell me my way of talking is passive-aggressive, twisted, tortured, and that I'm sensitive. I really was starting to doubt she was right, and I was the one at fault, which sort of made me keep going back.

                        
This is where feedback from others ( like members here or people in real life ) is important because it gives you a more balanced realistic point of view. If you think about the projection notice how she projected everything that was bad, faulty and negative? If you're point of view leans too far one way and is not somewhere in the middle with good and bad, the grey area, it's not realistic. Even when a pwBPD idealize us and see only positive qualities, it's not realistic.
                        
A pwBPD project feelings that they're not comfortable with and blame others and the world for their problems. It's easier said than done, but try to seperate yourself from her projections, she's subconsciously trying to attribute those feelings on you. Even though she can't cope with her feelings it doesn't mean that you've inherited them. I'll say in another way, her perceptions of you or anyone else for that matter don't make it real, it's not your reality, seperate yourself from that because it doesn't define who you are as a person.

[vanx]

Danny_99.
I just wanted to validate your experience with projection and doubting yourself. I went through something similar and my expwBPD did not hold back on her criticism and opinions of what I was doing wrong. Mutt already worded it really well, but I just wanted to relate that part of getting your power back is I think removing your view of yourself from your ex's. I know for me, I was influenced by her view of me when she adored me, and it was painful and confusing when she got distant and resentful. I was very affected by what she thought. When you take your own power back, you can be honest with yourself about areas you want to grow in, but also balanced, kind, and fair about yourself. You sound like you already have a great perspective, but I just wanted to relate. I wish you well!

[Danny_99]

Mutt;

Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to do, completely separating myself from the way she perceives me.

The thing is about my work is it's night shifts, 12 hours per day, for 4 weeks. So not much time left after work, I basically just work out, listen to music, and it's almost bed time. Though in the 12 hours of work there are times when I pretty much have nothing to do (Which made it easier to develop a relationship with my ex), but I guess I must always find things to do, new tasks to accomplish at work for example.

When I'm back home it's easier, I've got my friends that I go out with, I date, I travel, and I work out. What I'm trying to achieve is doing those things while I'm happier. And I can see some progress in that area.

Vanx, it's true, there are a lot of issues I had to address in myself. To be honest, I almost always attract girls of a similar type, f**cked up girls basically. I think I am a people pleaser type, which means I really like it when a girl needs me to open up about all her problems with me (More if I like her), but not really caring much about sharing my needs. That was the way I developed a connection with my ex, but as time went by and we got close, and when I started sharing my needs, or talking about my work, or anything, she would almost make me feel like I have done something wrong. It's hilarious when I think about it now.

I felt a little codependent in the last period of my relationship, even though I've never been like that before, but I guess being too close, and due to the way I felt because of the physical distance, I started feeling like she was someone I could confide in. I have never been this way before, and girls usually told me that I never really open up much and I tend to be mysterious. But I guess I got too emotional with my ex.

I still have some problems from childhood, some sort of emotional abandonment, I was basically alone during my childhood years due to some problems in my family, and mostly spent my childhood years with different relatives. Even though I'm fully aware of that (Well, I got more aware of it after the relationship). I still haven't found a solution for it, and I'm trying to. I might see a therapist soon.

Do you guys think it's a good idea to tell my ex that she might have a BPD? Or would that result in a negative reaction and she wouldn't take it well? I know it should never be my responsibility to help her, but I still care about her, I feel bad for her, and I think if she was aware of her disorder, she might really begin to be more self-aware of her behavior.

Would that help? Or do you think it's a bad idea?

[Mutt]

Hi Danny_99,

I have never been this way before, and girls usually told me that I never really open up much and I tend to be mysterious. But I guess I got too emotional with my ex.

That's good to hear that you're keeping yourself pretty busy, I was going to suggest working out but you already lift  

I have never been this way before, and girls usually told me that I never really open up much and I tend to be mysterious. But I guess I got too emotional with my ex.

I don't think that you got too emotional. A pwBPD can't sustain healthy adult intimacy, intimacy triggers the disorder. It sounds like you may of struggled with emotional intimacy with women in the past but a pwBPD have a way of bearing down on us and sharing too much at the beginning of the r/s, you may feel more at ease with emotional intimacy.

I still have some problems from childhood, some sort of emotional abandonment, I was basically alone during my childhood years due to some problems in my family, and mostly spent my childhood years with different relatives.

I'm sorry that you went through that as child. Maybe abandonment / intimacy is something that you can explore in therapy. I can relate with abandonment issues as well, I was adopted ( abandonment )my adoptive mom died when I was young ( abandonment ) and my father threw me out of the family home when I was teenager ( abandonment ) and I went into foster care.

Do you guys think it's a good idea to tell my ex that she might have a BPD? Or would that result in a negative reaction and she wouldn't take it well

That's a good question, I'll answer your question with a question. How would you feel if someone came to you and thought that you suffered from a mental illness? What would your reaction be?

[Subaru02]

I can relate a lot to this my ex-girlfriend would often try to induce jealousy in me but I would shrug it off as immature which would trigger her to accuse me of not caring if I had no objection to her seeing someone else.

She would often be extremely jealous and worried I'd meet someone else. I work 2 weeks outside of town and one week off. During those 2 weeks she would ALWAYS check up on me, basically trying to PROBE me if I was seeking out other women during my time away. She would randomly call me it would feel more like she was insecure about my whereabouts than actually missing me and this would come off pretty clearly to me and I would be kind of disinterested and cold because there was no substance in our conversation, it was mostly just "checking up on me" so it lead to short conversations where I felt suffocated of my freedom...

We spent 3 years together and have many ups and downs. For some reason I was irritated with her behavior and often thought it wasn't good for me but I couldn't leave its like I felt I was wrong to have thoughts that I needed out but she felt me disinterested. We had short conversations of why I felt this way but they would always end in her being cold and avoiding because it was impossible for her to take ANY criticism. She was the same at school, with friends and coworkers no one could criticize her without her pointing the finger back OR making sure she gets even by putting down the person criticizing her.

She spent our whole relationship infatuated by me, putting me on a pedestal but also putting herself down in so many ways I got exhausted emotionally trying to put her At the end of our 3 years she started sending mixed signals for weeks after she had caught me flirting with a woman I wasn't interested in but was just having a good time chatting up it felt like I could have a mature conversation with a woman for the first time and I was completely consumed. She used this situation to make me feel guilty and ultimately broke up with me under superficial and bogus reasons which I tried to get further explanation and she just hid behind her phone and never gave me the time of day face to face which really pissed me off and disappointed me. Something was up and I knew it, I found out she had lined up a replacement with some party boy and I confronted her about it. She became EXTREMELY MEAN and devaluating. She made me feel I was the bad guy in the relationship that I brought only negativity to her life and that this new guy showed her how uncomfortable she was in our relationship. So I was in huge pain and start to self-loath thinking I had been this bad to her. But it had nothing to do with me I didn't know that at the time. I spent weeks working on myself trying to make sense of it, she cut me out of her life. I got a new job, moved to a new apartment and made some new friends, even started seeing a new girl. What do you know after 1.5 months she showed up and crawled back to me crying saying how immature, stupid and ignorant she had been to think that I was replaceable. She basically manipulated me into thinking she was young and didn't know the man she had in her hands. Over the course of weeks we quickly got intimate again I understood what she had gone through, I had made her feel like I was disinterested and she had a fear of abandonment that I felt responsable for triggering so she lined up a replacement. The guy got rid of her coldly and ghosted her so she came back to me. I ignored the redflags, I for some reason still loved this person and craved her in many ways, felt like an addiction coming back to me. IT WAS AMAZING for 3 months and then her irresponsible, bratty, immature and frustrating behavior came back and my disinterest slowly came back but since I was working outside of two for 2 weeks at a time it wasn't like having her in my life all the time like before so for some reason we lasted a full year.

I started to accept that it was perfect for me to have a relationship without too many strings attached, seeing each other a week and then I go away for work, we keep contact but not too involved. Her behavior became more and more flaky and I became more and more detached. After a childish fight over the phone she ghosted me for 10 days and I decided not to react, she had said she couldn't wait for me to drive down before that fight so I waited to drive down before contacting her. Once in town I got no news so I let the weekend pass by and once it was time for me to drive back to my work city, I sent her a message saying "I hoped to hear from you to spend the weekend together like you said you couldn't wait to" she responded 6 hours later saying "Look I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, I don't want you to think I don't care about you, I don't want you to think that I don't think about you but our last conversation over the phone made me realize you and I would never work out and I think I need to try and move on and reducing contact will help us both"

I agreed to it, it felt like I had removed a huge weight on my shoulders for a complete week I was SO RELIEVED to be free of this mess. Then she realized I was really not contacting her anymore so she started breadcrumbing me for a week to which I did not respond. When I drove back down 10 days later, I saw her at a local bar making out with a new guy and I ignored it and didn't contact her­. Over the weekend I decided to drive to her house and get my watch that she had not brought back to me in her car for ages. When I opened the passenger door I found my watch where it was before and two condom wrappers on the floor carpet. For some reason it sent me SPIRALING. It was like DEJAVU she had done the same thing a year earlier, line up a replacement and sleep with a guy 7 days after our breakup. It was eating at me I couldn't believe we had ended our relationship over text after all the things I put up with her behavior and she would line up another replacement so quickly and sleep with another guy.

I confronted her, told her that even if I agreed to us taking our distance, I wasn't expecting her to be sleeping with other men and dating another guy a week after. She was MEAN, COLD and completely disgusting in her responses. She blamed me for all her "unhappiness", told me she was FREE OF ME, told me this new guy was making her feel like she could be "her natural self again" (weeks after knowing him) as if I wasn't giving her the freedom she needed... .She said she was sorry but it was fake. She got caught in her game and didn't expect me to find out again and devaluated me through our whole 20 minute conversation sending me signals that her life was better ALL AROUND without me.
Even though I see it as bullox now, it still hurts that she would rather walk away than try to talk things out. She basically took the low road again of shopping around while still reaping the benefit of having me around while she had the confidence to do so. Its funny how she felt so anxious about me replacing her the whole time we dated and ended up lieing and hiding her true intentions to me... .

I wished her the best, told her if she was happy that I was happy for her and have been no contact for 45 days since then. I think about her everyday, sometimes I want to reach out, sometimes I feel angry its  really frustrating to be so confused about how to feel about someone who you loved but behaved this way. She switched overnight from "I miss you and can't wait to see you" to "You never were worth anything to me now that I have a new guy"... .

Thanks for reading.

[Danny_99]

I don't think that you got too emotional. A pwBPD can't sustain healthy adult intimacy, intimacy triggers the disorder. It sounds like you may of struggled with emotional intimacy with women in the past but a pwBPD have a way of bearing down on us and sharing too much at the beginning of the r/s, you may feel more at ease with emotional intimacy.

True. In the beginning of us talking and getting close, I kinda asked for somethings (Sexual things), since I was away and could not see her at the time. She said she will do them once we get intimate (Intimacy was her goal). As soon as she did do those things, it was the exact moment she started getting either distant, hateful, or just needy. No inbetweens. It's really something.

I'm sorry that you went through that as child. Maybe abandonment / intimacy is something that you can explore in therapy. I can relate with abandonment issues as well, I was adopted ( abandonment )my adoptive mom died when I was young ( abandonment ) and my father threw me out of the family home when I was teenager ( abandonment ) and I went into foster care.

Man, I'm really sorry. And you're really strong for going through with all of this. Does that affect your relationships as well? Did you try therapy yet? Does it work?

That's a good question, I'll answer your question with a question. How would you feel if someone came to you and thought that you suffered from a mental illness? What would your reaction be?

It depends on a lot of factors, how much I trust the person saying it to me, and the way he's presenting it to me. But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be mad or try to prove that person wrong. I would look up the disorder and see if I fit the symptoms. (But that's just me). Maybe her behavior would be extremely different. Probably will be unexpected, I know. I see your point.

Subaru

I'm sorry man. This does sound like perfect borderline behavior. The funny thing is during the month I was away in the desert, I kinda started acting like her. Checking up on her, short conversations, got a little possessive (They do call it crazy making behavior, I felt like I was becoming her in a way) But it was mainly because of how much she induced jealousy that she succeeded and I indeed started getting worried that she might be seeing someone else (Well, until she told me she dated other guys anyway, so I guess I was right). Don't know for sure if it was just dating, but I don't think it matters anymore.

You're lucky you're out. My ex didn't come back crawling to me or anything, she's 34, I'm 27. I think she's a high functioning borderline, and her symptoms only really came to surface in our relationship, but I think she's okay and doing well in other aspects of life. First time I had sex with her, I found loads of condoms in her drawer, didn't care then because we weren't intimate or anything.

I hope we can focus on the bright side that we're out of those f**ked up relationships and back to ourselves, even if that's a bit boring compared to the high we felt while we were with them, but at least we're sane now. We're normal now. No walking on eggshells anymore.

Here's a nice, angry song. How their self-loathing and emptiness make them do what they do. I felt this song spoke my mind when we broke up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsZ0GybOsYw

I wished her the best, told her if she was happy that I was happy for her and have been no contact for 45 days since then. I think about her everyday, sometimes I want to reach out, sometimes I feel angry its  really frustrating to be so confused about how to feel about someone who you loved but behaved this way. She switched overnight from "I miss you and can't wait to see you" to "You never were worth anything to me now that I have a new guy"... .

Stay strong man, I remember my weak times when I reached out to her before we broke up, she was always mean, always punishing me for something I never did. So better maintain NC. I feel like you, sometimes missing her and wanting to reach out, sometimes so angry with her.
It's funny because after we got distant and told me that she dated, she had to make sure that she made me feel like she was really happy without me. ''I had a really nice day today'' She would say, even though she never did that before. I read her emotions, how she wants to let me know she's feeling so good that we're finally distant. They're so childish, so immature. This woman was 34, but still acted like a total child. It hurts, I know, but we must be strong and never reach out to them. If we did, it would only prolong the pain and the moving on process. Plus the conversation would probably be awkward as hell, specially if you still have feelings for her.

[Subaru02]

Stay strong man, I remember my weak times when I reached out to her before we broke up, she was always mean, always punishing me for something I never did. So better maintain NC. I feel like you, sometimes missing her and wanting to reach out, sometimes so angry with her.
It's funny because after we got distant and told me that she dated, she had to make sure that she made me feel like she was really happy without me. ''I had a really nice day today'' She would say, even though she never did that before. I read her emotions, how she wants to let me know she's feeling so good that we're finally distant. They're so childish, so immature. This woman was 34, but still acted like a total child. It hurts, I know, but we must be strong and never reach out to them. If we did, it would only prolong the pain and the moving on process. Plus the conversation would probably be awkward as hell, specially if you still have feelings for her.

Thanks buddy,

She really NEEDED to rub her new happiness in my face so STRONGLY that it hurt me "during" the conversation and for atleast a week until I realized how pathetic it was.

After us "separating" under mostly friendly terms where she told me how amazing I was, that I was good looking, a smart guy and that I could find way better than her and that I would be much better off not worrying about "stupid old her" and move on with my life. She proceeded to tell me it was hard to not speak to me for those 10 days before her decision, that she wanted to sleep over and see me but thought it would be better not to as she would have changed her mind AGAIN. I kept no contact for 25 days inside that time lapse I saw her at the bar, saw the condoms but didn't tell her about it before 25 days went by, I had a huge anxious moment at work and had decided never to talk to her but I was overwhelmed with a "fear of loss" that I now regret, and I broke no contact and here's how it went in general. (ME / HER format)

ME: Hey, I really would like to hear from you and know how you are doing.
HER : Hey, how are you? (She seemed happy to hear from me)
ME : I'm sorry I didn't want to disturb you we should talk later you're at school I'm at work!
HER : No go ahead, whats going on?
ME : I've been thinking about you for the past month... .its been consuming my thoughts at work... you're always on my mind. I hope you know that even though I agreed to us moving on, I still loved you very much and was very distant in the last weeks because of your frustrating behavior. What hurts me right now is I found out the week after our "breakup" that you were already seeing someone else and sleeping with him. (She doesn't know I saw the condoms so she totally freaked out)
ME : What hurts me the most and makes me really sad, is that you spent our whole year worried I'd replace you. You had us agree that if we met someone else or something would happen between me and another girl that I wouldn't hide it from you so why did you keep it from me that were not only seeing someone, but that you were sleeping with him while you kept me on the hook?
--------------
Boom that's where she realized I knew probably WAY MORE than she was ready to defend.

HER: Its none of your business! We weren't together anymore! Besides we both agreed it was over and you know as much as I do that our relationship was not working!

ME : So who's this guy out of nowhere?

HER : I don't want to tell you who he is, you'd just ask WHY HIM? But its HIM thats all! I knew him from before, he's moved back in town recently and we just REALLY get along so well. Its a coincidence, a really nice coincidence.

ME : I agree, there were some things that weren't working but nothing we couldn't talk about as adults. Why did you come back to me saying you knew who I was, that you now understood what you lost and that you wanted it to work and that your lack of experience made you act the way you acted and regretted it? Why did you ask to officialise our relationship and continued to bring it up for the last months? I was telling you we'd slowly move into something official as things unfolded, what was the sudden hurry to leave again? I wanted to wait for you to say what you wanted from us, instead of bringing up "where are we" all the time. The day you broke up with me you said your feelings for me were too strong to just be friends with benefits and that you needed commitment, where did those feelings go all of a sudden?

HER : I needed some time to get some clarity, I was confused about my feelings. Our relationship was too broken, there was no chance of it ever working out in the long run... .Common THINK about it! You were always looking down on me I felt inferior, you made me feel like I was just Robin and you Batman, I want to be supergirl I don't want to be someone's side kick I need someone who sees me on the same level but you don't treat me like your equal. I can be friends with this guy, he makes me feel like his equal.

ME : You said the same thing about the guy you left for the first time. Its all the same story, you comparing me to him, and then you all happy and feeling valuable with another guy while I'm the mean guy treating you like crap right?

HER : Whatever think what you want, but the difference this time is I AM FREE OF YOU. Now my life is so much better now, everything is going perfectly at WORK, SCHOOL my family and friends I'm happy there's just no more negativity and hostility anymore in my life. (She then sends me a stupid video on youtube about "happiness in relationships"... .)

ME : How can you feel so free in 2-3 weeks when you were sad at the breakup and missed me. How can your life turn around so much when you had problems in all those categories of your life. How could me being away 2 weeks and home for 5 days possibly make you this unhappy?

HER : I don't know I was just DIFFERENT I feel LIGHT AND ON A CLOUD right now, I feel like I'm back to my natural self before I was involved with you. Last year when I left, I wasn't free of you. I still had you on my mind everyday but this time its different, I'm reminded of you with thousands of things in my life with all the things you know how to fix, you had answers to anything I had on my mind at the tip of your fingers but I don't have feelings of love and attachment for you anymore.

ME : Anyways, I wish you the best of luck with him, I really hope it works out for you and if you are happy, I'm happy. I'd really like for us to remain friends in the future, maybe catch up, I never really wanted to lose you in my life, wasn't expecting this situation to come up again in such a disappointing and heartbreaking manner!

HER : I'm sorry... .yes we can catch up later but only as friends.

ME : Well, this weekend I have a date, I'm going ziplining in the mountains with this really fun girl I met this week (remember its been 25 days since we talked) Its going to be fun and I'll probably be able to start getting my mind off all of this. It really hurts to see you leave this way I was finishing my project outside of town in 4 weeks and we could have spent a lot more time together as I will be home for 8 months before leaving for my next project (I sent her a picture of the mountains I'm going).

HER : Well take care of her and make sure you treat her right. You had your "chances with me" I don't want to look back anymore I want to move forward with my life.

ME : Ya she really seems to like outdoor activities and adrenaline rushes its going to be a fun experience. (She always refused to go to waterparks, rollercoasters or other things involving adrenaline or heights)

HER : I'm not sure I'm comfortable talking with you yet, I think we should wait a little more... .

(She probably started realizing I was capable of meeting someone too and without shoving it in her face. I didn't say anything MEAN nor did I try to COMPARE them in any way, just to show her even though I had feelings for her I wouldn'T sit around and cry. I could move on with my life too)

ME : Anyways, I'm off of work in 15 minutes I'm going straight down to dinner with her tonight, we can catch up some other time if you want. Thank you for the conversation, atleast its clear to me now that I need to move on and your attitude towards me sure made me realize that. Have a good night!

The message was marked as received and she never replied back.

4 days later I went to my weekend with my date, we had a lot of fun she turned out not interesting me for anything more but we spent some fun time together! The tour guide assumed we were a couple and offered to take a picture of her and I which was really good in our mountain protective gear. I posted it on my facebook/instagram (The ex and I are not friends nor following each other on those ever since the first BU so I wasn't posting it for her to see but both our instagrams are public so I can see her stuff, she can see mine I don't even know if she checks but she always admitted to stalking me once in a while so maybe she did... .)

The following weekend, she posted herself publicly with the new guy, finally putting a face on him. She never posts on instagram she has like 6 posts in 3 years and decides to take a selfy of herself with him sitting at a restaurant having a beer. She titled it "Weekend Vacation" with 3 hearts. Guy looks like a nice guy, big biceps and seems a little awkward about the sudden picture moment. I didn't react nor did I contact her.
Weeks later her youngest sister starts "chatting to her" on a picture of her that I liked 3 years ago and it filled my facebook with notifications even though we aren't friends anymore. This really triggered me, I thought common she definitely did this to get my attention or whatever, so I decided it was enough I blocked her on all social media and decided I didn't need stupid reminders of her existence nor did I need to know what she was up to. She had been mean, she replaced me in a matter of weeks I need to stay away from her and anything she does. Ever since I blocked her I have been healing everyday. I never heard from her again and never reached out. I've had urges to write her hateful letters saying what a cheap liar and disappointing hypocrite she was to post herself with a new guy and have everyone "proud of her new catch" when she hid the fact she was seeing me for a year from her relatives and friends probably embarassed that she came back after leaving.

In essence, her surroundings probably all think she was single for a year and finally met her knight in shining armor after being a good patient girl because I wasn't officially in the picture except between her and I and maybe one of her close friends and some coworkers she gossips with. It felt sick to my stomach how dishonest she is to herself, to me and to everyone around her to keep up her image.

I'm proud of how much better I'm doing already, I couldnt imagine myself getting through this in the early stages after talking to her. I was down and sad and depressed and felt betrayed and lied to. No contact has given me clarity, reading these forums, posting, seeing a T, getting exercise, good food through my body, good sleep and interesting myself in new things has really helped as well. I decided to take TIME OFF from dating after seeing 2-3 women with whom I felt like ___ to hang out with and hook up when I would wake up to them thinking about my ex. I removed my dating accounts and have decided to be patient, fix my issues and get over this whole thing to make sure I get into a healthy relationship and not jump into a rebound or desperate fling to get my mind off her, I'm going to face this head on and make myself ready to tackle a woman I really want in my life.

Thanks again for reading!

[Danny_99]

Subaru;

I believe this conversation proved to you that you can never really have a logical, reasonable, adult communication with this person. It's just impossible. They will never admit they've done anything wrong, apparently it brings deep sense of shame in them that they just can't tolerate it, so of course she would rather blame you on it. Rest assured the same pattern will be repeated with that new guy, you should start feeling sorry for him, and for her. When I stopped talking to her, she blocked me/unblocked me. Removed her picture on whatsapp. Told me that she misses me. That she broke her back () Basically any  to try to get attention. I still remember that she told me some situations in her life she shares with 4 or 5 people to have advice on it. It's text book attention seeking behavior. You should never fall for it, and it's a great, strong step that you actually blocked her. I wasn't actually strong enough to block her, I still didn't want to hurt her, or make her think that I hate her enough to block her. The goal was indifference towards her, which is how my responses were like when she contacted me after breaking up.

So she leaves my stuff by her door, and blocks me everywhere. A week later, she unblocks me from facebook. A week later, she unblocks me from whatsapp and starts a conversation:

Her: I miss you... .
Me: Hey, miss you too
Her: Wow, you're up so early, or you haven't gone to bed yet? How have you been?
Me: Yeah I have a course. I've been okay, how are you?
Her: Oh a course? What course? I've been okay. I've been babysitting these past two weeks (A lie, god knows why). Last week I kinda broke my back or something, but I'm better now...
Me: Damn, glad you're better now. I have to go now for the course
Her: What course? Answer me!
Me: Just a course related to work.
Her: Oh, ok.

A week later;

Her: Hey, any plans for Eid?
Me: Nope, but I got back from (A beach place) yesterday. What about you?
Her: That's cool. Was it fun? Was it expensive? Yeah I'm gonna travel during Eid
Me: Yeah, it was fun, and the hotel was for free. Cool, have fun
Her: That's amazing, I heard it's a bit expensive there, good on you guys (Y).
Her: Oh, question, what music do you think would be best for the car ride?
Me: I think any music you like would be a good option. Gotta go now, talk to you later.

Two weeks later she calls, never picked it up, never called her. (It's funny too because she called the exact time she knows I just started work and could never pick the phone). I think she probably did it to see if I will contact her or not, but of course I never did.

You see how much I'm acting indifferent towards her, trying to avoid her. Because I tried opening up, trying sharing my feelings, and everytime I did, she became disrespectful and cruel. Can't really forget the time when she told me that I remind her of a very bad relationship. I asked her why, and she said: ''Is that necessary? It's a bad memory that I had to bury deep''

She hurt me. I can't let her hurt me again.

I believe the more you stay away from her, the better you will feel. Of course there will be days when you get relapses, or maybe negative memories of her will keep crowding your mind, but just know that it always gets better. Just think of how you're feeling now, and how it felt the day after breaking up with her for example. It always gets better. When you're sure of that, you will see results.

You're awesome for blocking her. Keep being awesome (Y)

[Subaru02]

I got hung up on her music question that she asked you, isn't that stupid? They WANT you to GIVE THEM ADVICE whilst not wanting "you", its like they need to keep just the parts of you they still need until the void is completely filled by someone else.

Just before she ended the breakup conversation she completely switched back to her old behavior for 5 minutes :

HEY just before you go, can you please "help me with one last thing?" and she sends me a screenshot of someone interested in buying her bicycle she put up for sale on craig's list. She wanted to know if the answer was trustworthy or if it was a scam because I would always deal that stuff for her.

I said I donno what do you think?
"Oh it looks like a scam, right?"
Then it probably is!
Anyways good luck!

Its incredible how she can just break my heart, (she definitely knew when she broke up that she was hiding this guy from me at that moment), lie to me in my face when I asked "What does moving on mean for you?"
She said : "It means taking time off from you to forget about you, not have feelings of love for you anymore and looking back and not hurting at the thought that its really over... ."
I answered : Makes sense
She said : So we will be cutting contact, I won't be talking to you, but I will be thinking about you and wondering about you.
I Said : I will too, whenever you want to talk, I'm here.
She said : Thank you, please give me some time it won't be easy!

Wow, a week later she's got someone else inside of her, talk about hurt when you look back eh? No wonder I can't make any sense of it, she's just probably really confused in her head. It must be really crazy to spend a couple days in her mind!

When she said she needed clarity to assess her true feelings she was probably hesitating between him and I, I probably did all the wrong moves because she was acting needy and annoying so I pushed her away. While he was doing all the right moves to try and get in her pants. Its really sad because she can't decide between being WITHOUT ME or WITH ME. She needs to decide between ME and SOMEONE ELSE. Thats where I think its SUPER unhealthy behavior specially for a 23 year old woman who's studying in college you would expect much more maturity...

Thanks for reading bud I really appreciated us both sharing such similar events.

[Danny_99]

Haha, exactly. She's basically trying to relieve her guilt, play innocent, wanting to keep me around, pretending everything is okay while she's just moving on with another guy. What the hell? :D

But you got it pretty right, about how she was struggling between keeping you or replacing you with another guy, I never thought of it that way but it kinda makes sense.

Also, you think you were pushing her away, but to be honest, no matter what you would have done it would have still ended. You see, when you don't give a ___ about her needy behavior, she feels abandoned and will push you away. When you care, she feels afraid of abandonment, and will push you away. There's no way around it. You didn't do anything wrong man, and I think we should be grateful it didn't take that long for them to reveal their true colors. Some men stay in these relationships for years and years, you can imagine how messed up things will have been by then.

She told me about an ex that used to beat her, she stayed with him for 4 years. When she told me about it, and instead of showing empathy, I asked her why she spent that long with someone like that? That really surprised her, and she gave me a poker face having no idea what to say. I am not in anyway justifying hitting a woman, but I could really see how she was trying to bring out the worst in me, how disrespectful she was, how cruel she was. Still, not in any way a reason to physically harm a woman, but I can be sure that the guy who used to beat her never intended to until she kept pushing his buttons, until he couldn't take it anymore. Still not a justification.

I don't think you can maintain a healthy relationship with someone who has BPD. Judging her history, all her relationships were with abusive asss, a drug addict who used to steal from her, that guy who used to beat her. And if there's anything I know, is that people who were abused several times, will tend to tolerate abuse, or become abusive. I never want to take part in that.

I find it funny how we realize it all, but still somehow can't stop thinking about them. I think it's because they hurt our ego, and made us vulnerable when we never intended to. But I realized it's okay to be hurt, it's okay to be vulnerable. It's a life lesson, and there are things we probably would never have realized if we didn't go through that experience with them.

With time, you'll stop comparing or thinking every woman is boring compared to her, you'll stop thinking sex is boring if it's not with her. Time heals all.

A bit psychopathic song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuNcUED7y80

[Subaru02]

Haha, exactly. She's basically trying to relieve her guilt, play innocent, wanting to keep me around, pretending everything is okay while she's just moving on with another guy. What the hell? :D

But you got it pretty right, about how she was struggling between keeping you or replacing you with another guy, I never thought of it that way but it kinda makes sense.

Also, you think you were pushing her away, but to be honest, no matter what you would have done it would have still ended. You see, when you don't give a ___ about her needy behavior, she feels abandoned and will push you away. When you care, she feels afraid of abandonment, and will push you away. There's no way around it. You didn't do anything wrong man, and I think we should be grateful it didn't take that long for them to reveal their true colors. Some men stay in these relationships for years and years, you can imagine how messed up things will have been by then.

The fact I just let her relieve her guilt makes me agonize I wish I had never confronted her about what I found. I should have disappeared leaving her to wonder what the heck was going on. She was definitely already seeing him who knows of she even "cheated". Does it even matter? I still have anger towards her double standards of me having to live up to her needy demands while she can do what she suits behind my back. In my opinion if she was sleeping with him so quickly they had seen each other quite a bit before she broke it off with me that is what hurts the most, what a hypocrite while she kept being jealous with me in the background to keep me on my toes.

She then proceeds to devaluate me when she stands on sure soil its such weak behavior its really hard for me not to call her out on it in a polite letter. I wonder what has the most impact, dead radio silence, a full block and completely discarding her for life, or a final letter expressing what I felt. Who knows.

I let myself tolerate her needyness because I was able to put up with it. From what I gather people like this repeat cycles. They get into other unhealthy relationships because their own boundaries are unclear in the first place. Jumping to another person while seeing another doesn't really allow you to heal or assess your issues, which to me is destined to fail in a variable amount of time depending on so many factors...

I can't believe she'll never reach out when things fail with him because that's what she did last time and hasn't changed her behavior at all since then... .Maybe at that point it'll be nice to have a true conversation in a platonic way to express what I really interpreted about her behavior.

Once a "fast relationship" fails, (rebounds) they usually bring up a bunch of pain at once because underlying and unresolved past emotions have not been dealt with.  I know because I've done it when I was younger and thats what happened to me.

I don't wish her any pain in reality its hard to accept that she has now rendered herself "unrecyclable" into my life forever... .damn...

[Danny_99]

It's good that that's what you think, that you render her "unrecyclable".  And to be honest, I don't think they have the same feelings as us, the same feelings of remorse and regret and sympathy. Remember that their emotional development is arrested since they were very young (most of them). It's hurts but it's the fact we need to accept.

For me, I would never go back to her, there were times while I was away when she literally made me feel like a little kid, and she was criticizing me like a punitive parent. I never knew I should be constantly demanding her respect, it's something I wasn't familiar with in relationships, and I thought it's not something you should keep asking for. (Specially after you're close with someone)

I'm not sure if sending her a letter is a good idea, if it will make you relieved, go for it. But bare in mind that there's a chance of her completely ignoring the letter, or giving a hurtful response. You never know, and unless you're centered enough to take it, unless you don't care much anymore, it would be best if you try to move on and never contacting her. I'm sure you know by now that having closure with her is like a dream

And honestly, it doesn't matter if she started seeing that guy while you were together or not, what matters is that you don't blame yourself for it. Because if she did it because she felt you withdraw a bit of attention from her, then man, that's not someone you wanna go back to. I get how you thought she'd never really leave, because of how needy and insecure she is. I felt the same. It's hard not to take that for granted at times, and you can't really keep paying attention to her with the same intensity every single day.

I remember a day at work when I lost my internet connection for a day, and after getting it back and contacting her, she told me she blocked and unblocked me twice, erased the conversation, and was very angry at everyone during that day. She's so paranoid, it rubs off on you. She's so insecure, it rubs off on you. She's so intense showing all of it, and it rubs off on you. And when they suddenly go, you're left with those feelings. But again, the more time you spend away from her, the more those feelings will fade away, you'll become yourself again. Think about that, you deserve much better. Remember her ___ty behavior, her constant need of attention, is that really a behavior worth putting up with for whatever highs she provided? is it even worth having closure for? I really don't think it is. So hold on to the thought that she's unrecyclable, it is the correct thought my friend.

[Subaru02]

And honestly, it doesn't matter if she started seeing that guy while you were together or not, what matters is that you don't blame yourself for it. Because if she did it because she felt you withdraw a bit of attention from her, then man, that's not someone you wanna go back to. I get how you thought she'd never really leave, because of how needy and insecure she is. I felt the same. It's hard not to take that for granted at times, and you can't really keep paying attention to her with the same intensity every single day.

I remember a day at work when I lost my internet connection for a day, and after getting it back and contacting her, she told me she blocked and unblocked me twice, erased the conversation, and was very angry at everyone during that day. She's so paranoid, it rubs off on you. She's so insecure, it rubs off on you. She's so intense showing all of it, and it rubs off on you. And when they suddenly go, you're left with those feelings. But again, the more time you spend away from her, the more those feelings will fade away, you'll become yourself again. Think about that, you deserve much better. Remember her ___ty behavior, her constant need of attention, is that really a behavior worth putting up with for whatever highs she provided? is it even worth having closure for? I really don't think it is. So hold on to the thought that she's unrecyclable, it is the correct thought my friend.

Your response is completely GOLDEN.

No, You cannot imagine someone so insecure and needy will leave, you imagine that they will calm down and eventually get the picture that there's a possibility of being perfectly relaxed about it and that they have no reason to complain or worry. She would say things like "I wouldn't be this way if you hadn't given me reasons to be"... .Ya ok she's seen platonic conversations with other girls on my phone because I don't delete them because I had nothing to hide. Ya sure, I've gazed at good looking women on the beach or at clubs, sure I've admitted finding a girl really attractive, and yes I've sent a provocative text to one of her sisters just to see what she'd say which ended up being a catastrophe but I was always OPEN and honest about it during our initial 3 years. She used those instances to justify finding someone else and remove herself of guilt.

And you are right, you cannot be feeding these people with CONSTANT validation, reassurance and giving attention at the same intensity. It wears you out, it gets exhausting and you start to push them away because you need space from that type of behavior, but she interprets it as abandonment and rejection so you are right, it triggered her need to find attention elsewhere, almost like it was initially based on revenge a little.

Anyways, rendering her unrecyclable is what I should have done the first time and not try and see if we could work things out a second time after her behavior. I felt guilty for the small times she felt I was interested in other women that she was using to justify her breakup. I own my masculinity and I was always flirty with even her mom and sisters just for play, but her dad was very insecure and built up a certain frustration about it. One day he let it out on her and said I would one day cheat on her because I can't control myself around women. In reality, me acting out in the open even infront of him just proved I was playful and had nothing to hide. He prayed on his own daughter's insecurity to get me out of the family circle. She immediately broke up, then got back with me in 2 days. I thought NICE, she can fight back her own father she's worth it. But what she was really doing is stringing me along while she made sure the new guy was interested. When he was, she dumped me again now saying she realizes were not compatible and all those stupid things I did with other women were too much! (She really sees those small thigns as huge catastrophes to justify her leaving) thats when I found out about the rebound. He ended up calling her crazy after 4 weeks, ghosted her and hse came back I was still feeling guilty about what her father said and hadn't taken my power back to realize how unimportant all those things were.

Anyways we still lasted a year until I realized I wasn't the one needing redemption, she was. Thats when I started to be myself and not try to act like I owe her sh!t. She started feeling I was taking my respect back and found another replacement.

I realize now what type of person she is. Its definitely a good thing to start over and moving on from this is a necessary step in my life.

[Danny_99]

No, You cannot imagine someone so insecure and needy will leave, you imagine that they will calm down and eventually get the picture that there's a possibility of being perfectly relaxed about it and that they have no reason to complain or worry. She would say things like "I wouldn't be this way if you hadn't given me reasons to be"... .Ya ok she's seen platonic conversations with other girls on my phone because I don't delete them because I had nothing to hide. Ya sure, I've gazed at good looking women on the beach or at clubs, sure I've admitted finding a girl really attractive, and yes I've sent a provocative text to one of her sisters just to see what she'd say which ended up being a catastrophe but I was always OPEN and honest about it during our initial 3 years. She used those instances to justify finding someone else and remove herself of guilt.

Man, I know you didn't have any bad intentions doing any of this, but I can tell you, rest assured, that she viewed all of these little moments as betrayals. Not as just you innocently flirting, but as betrayal, and she bottled up each betrayal inside of her. This isn't your fault (Except for the provocative text you sent to one of her sisters, that was kind of a low move xD). I remember my ex, whenever I brought up a girl (An ex, a friend, whatever) Her face would change 180 degrees, and she'd look extremely mad, and literally tell me that she doesn't want to hear about any other girls, even though I had no intention of playing with her insecurities, and every time I brought a girl up it was relevant to the conversation. Evey time we were together in her place, and I'd get a text or a call from a girl, she'd look pissed off. Whenever I went out for a smoke, she would demand I don't take my phone with me. She really couldn't trust me, even though I wasn't betraying her sexually or emotionally in any way. The funnier thing, she would always get texts/calls from guys, and I always played it cool and handled it in a sarcastic manner. Eventually, I stopped mentioning any girls, just to avoid the inevitable drama afterwards, but she kept bringing up guys and inducing jealousy, specially after I went away for work and it turned to a long distance relationship. How selfish and insecure that is, is beyond me.

And you are right, you cannot be feeding these people with CONSTANT validation, reassurance and giving attention at the same intensity. It wears you out, it gets exhausting and you start to push them away because you need space from that type of behavior, but she interprets it as abandonment and rejection so you are right, it triggered her need to find attention elsewhere, almost like it was initially based on revenge a little.

The way I see it, when the push/pull cycle starts, it can never end, you can never go back to normal. One day, she was sharing something, and I was extremely tired from work and didn't engage in the conversation much, she got more talkative and more needy when I did that. Next day, I started feeling she was distant, and I got more talkative and needy. It really kept going like this until we broke up. (In the end, I literally felt like we were both scared from each other, and whenever any of us starts talking more, the other shuts down. I guess both our fears were really triggered and came to surface, it was really traumatic)

I realize now what type of person she is. Its definitely a good thing to start over and moving on from this is a necessary step in my life.

I remember the first time I called her a ___ after she kept pushing my buttons, and then I sincerely apologized for it, she accepted my apology, but then changed her profile picture on whatsapp to this very weird shape shifting black witch (That kinda looked like a vulture too). The picture was really scary, and I never asked her what it meant.

Later, I was curious and I asked her, never really understood her answer, except that she despises herself too much to look in the mirror, and this picture kind of describes that feeling for her. Of course I kept reassuring her, telling her how pretty she is, but that never really seems to work. After her first abusive episode, she changed the picture to a selfie of her smiling. That was so weird, and scary. I also remember her telling me that she felt exhilarated when she saw 9/11, and wondered why everyone looked so sad. (She's American, and she was living in Detroit before moving in to my country). I can definitely blame myself for thinking it's okay, and she's someone I can really get along with because I've got my creepy side too. But nope, wishful thinking. She's so dark, and so broken. And I'm really positive this would have turned to something much, much worse if I stuck around for longer. 

[Subaru02]

Yep, a low move to which I took immediate responsability by apologizing to all involved. The problem was that she now had "motive" to hate me and thats all she seemed to need, She needed to cultivate that weak point about me as much as she could. She was always frustrated because she could never find any weak spot about me. Then she took a strong grip on that ___ty move I made and it never ended from there she would now have a reason to feel like she had a grip to make me feel like sh!t when she felt she needed to feel better about herself.

That witch image you speak of, I noticed she sees herself that way, so does one of her sisters. Its like they are broken in some way but why though? They had such OVER CARING parents that constantly brought them up giving them all the attention they needed. But no matter HOW MUCH I tried to reassure her, tell her she was hot and beautiful even if sometimes I knew she could be in better shape, it was never enough.

She would always assume she wasn't smart, wasn't good looking and wasn't good enough in general, she would compare herself to her friend and say "No one notices me at the bar when I go out with C." , "My 2 cousins are so much hotter then me when we go out I feel like I'm just a shadow following them around" and then when she left me  "You make me feel like I'm nothing, just a shadow of you following you around, I want someone to make me feel like I care"

See the pattern? I still feel like hsit for not BRINGING HER UP as much as I could have but its not my job to boost her self esteem I did enough of that.

In addition to that, I think that a woman with HIGH SELF ESTEEM or atleast better self image, is more attractive and captivates your attention better. She keeps you stimulated because you invest energy into bonding rather than investing into making the other person love themselves more before they can start loving you!

Its very therapeutic to realize that stuff!

Thanks!

[Danny_99]

Yep, a low move to which I took immediate responsability by apologizing to all involved. The problem was that she now had "motive" to hate me and thats all she seemed to need, She needed to cultivate that weak point about me as much as she could. She was always frustrated because she could never find any weak spot about me. Then she took a strong grip on that ___ty move I made and it never ended from there she would now have a reason to feel like she had a grip to make me feel like sh!t when she felt she needed to feel better about herself.

That's exactly what I felt with her. The moment she senses a weakness on you, she will start using it against you. She sensed that I'm a little more sensitive while I'm in the desert. She even asked me, and me being all naive, I told her that I am indeed more sensitive there than I am at home. Since then things have been going downhill. She used that against me. So mischievous.

That witch image you speak of, I noticed she sees herself that way, so does one of her sisters. Its like they are broken in some way but why though? They had such OVER CARING parents that constantly brought them up giving them all the attention they needed. But no matter HOW MUCH I tried to reassure her, tell her she was hot and beautiful even if sometimes I knew she could be in better shape, it was never enough.

They feel they're unlovable from within, you can't do anything about that. No amount of reassurance would change that.

Its very therapeutic to realize that stuff!

True that!

I'm interested to know if they can't idealize two people simultaneously, because at first when I knew her, she kept telling me how awful her best friend is, while idealizing me. Some time later, she kept telling me how awesome her friend is, while devaluing me. I see a pattern there, that they can't idealize two people simultaneously, and the moment they idealize someone else, a close friend for example, they must devalue you. That's what it felt like anyway.

[once removed]

how are you feeling today Danny99?

[Danny_99]

how are you feeling today Danny99?

I feel like this website is helping me a lot. I'm treating it as a therapist. It's awesome.

[once removed]

a good support group is a great adjunct for therapy. it really helps to know that youre not alone plus what gravitated me toward the site is all the articles, workshops, and tools, as if theres something for everyone at every stage with every question 

are you seeing a therapist? still a good idea and highly recommended!

[Danny_99]

a good support group is a great adjunct for therapy. it really helps to know that youre not alone plus what gravitated me toward the site is all the articles, workshops, and tools, as if theres something for everyone at every stage with every question 

are you seeing a therapist? still a good idea and highly recommended!

Exactly, you have no idea how much I've read from here before posting. It really, really helped.

I am thinking about it, thank you for the advice. I thought I will start as soon as I'm back from work (I'm traveling tomorrow :/)

Can I know your story, once removed? Is there an old post for it?

[once removed]

hi Danny_99

i havent encapsulated my story in a single post. i have shared, spread across some 4400 posts, and most recently in our ongoing series of polls on this board about the ten beliefs that can keep us stuck. its a great set of threads to work through detaching, and i hope youll join in.

i came to bpdfamily some years after my relationship ended and i was beyond the pain to share what i had learned, to learn more about myself and others, and to help others do the same. when a member hits 10 posts, they have access to the Learning board, which is a place to do just that. i hope to see you there when youre ready!

heres an example: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=308498.0