He wants a divorce (again), but...

[pearlsw]

Hi all,

Lots of nice comments here. Gonna take bits of each and weave together a reply. Thanks to all for their kindness and support.

Snowglobe, Nice to see you again, it's been awhile.   Interesting idea, but not possible. Is this something you do?   I'm in a small village and transportation issues/high costs for everything/lack of funds come into play. I'm having to be more a do-it-yourselfer in terms of problem solving.

It's hard for me to even get to regular swimming pool which is tough because swimming is one of my favorite sports. As a "practice" I incorporate elements of zen buddhism into my life. I listen to dharma talks to calm myself and put alternative thoughts to panic in my head when he being chaotic/creating panic/dysregulating, etc... I google "zen" and "patience" or "disappointment", etc. and see what comes up. Monasteries post talks on their sites and on Youtube. It helps immensely.

thanks so much and hope things are going well with you these days!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi WW,

Thanks for checking in! Um, I did as well as I could with the police. They helped stop the situation. He later apologized. He said he was surprised how quickly I was calm and matter of fact after this. Wish I had been more calm. Interesting to see how calm he was in front of them. (Reminder that he can control his emotions when costs higher.)

This is still not resolved though. He "promised" to delete contacts from his phone (and he has them elsewhere too which I am going to push for him to delete.) But he is very controlling in this regard. This is straight up abuse. I get nervous to push back on certain points because then I can see in his eyes that he has this "ah-ha" moment that he has something over me he can use. I am extremely not happy about this dynamic to say the least. I will nevertheless push. It's okay, if in the long run he can't give up trying to control parts of me/the relationship he can go jump in a lake. He won't get to have me as his partner if he is simply an emotional abuser, and there is nothing else to say about it.

Nice, I will "outsource" the positivity over him contacting my family over to you.  I have no enthusiasm over this. I will, like all I do in life, have to make the best of it. He put himself in "a pickle" with this - my two brothers are none too happy to say the least and are not as peaceful or levelheaded as I am. The two other family members he contacted are more likely to take a more health oriented view of things as do I. We'll see. Problems multiplying like rabbits over here.   I am trying to maintain a state of compassion. It's not always easy.

[pearlsw]

Oh babyducks! Your post was so sweet and has been comforting me for days! I've been dying to reply and wrote something that made sense at the time, but I am so tired now I am not sure I am really replying very well or missing the question completely. I'll post it anyway:

Why? I think some of it is about progressive relationships picking up and healing previous pieces of earlier ones, but of course they all present new challenges. I think this relationship was a lot about making up for the last guy I wasn’t able to be with because of “cultural reasons” it took him 4 years to sort out. We got along really well, but ultimately he felt familial pressure to stay with someone from his background instead of go outside his culture with me. (He was Middle Eastern, I’m Latina.). Fine, cool, got it, took my last best years of fertility with him, these things happen, my choice to delay too, but I liked him well enough and we stayed friendly for a long time.

The next guy (my current guy) hit that culture button right off by saying about himself (without me asking) that he takes parts of his culture he finds useful and tosses others that don’t work for him. It all seemed so profound at the time, exactly what I wanted to hear. He also filled in a piece on adventure and travel that had gotten lost along the way from decades ago. He also represented a sense of “success.” He managed to accomplish something I set out to do, but slipped away from me via a combination of racism in my grad program, my hidden (untreated) anxiety that I’ve had since childhood but battled through remarkably well (all things considered) on my own, and financial pressure b/c of the way we in the US pay for higher education, etc. (But life can be reordered at any time and I will if/when the time comes... .)

My life had been on track in my twenties and I’d pushed through and overcame a lot of obstacles, until I just…I just wanted someone, anyone  in my life to recognize that I’m not just a “strong person” and therefore everyone just leaves me alone and doesn’t help me…freakin’ help me! (Someone, anyone! Can any of you hear me? But no.) Somehow I get this “strong person” label and get left to my own devices…been that way my whole life. So, I learned to be on my own…but I wanted people. Forever people. A forever family, but…never got to make that - even if just two people. It’s okay though. Being “strong” ain’t all bad... .it will help me survive this too. And with any luck, it will help me create a nicer life in due time.  

When we got together we felt like we had a chance at a fresh, late start together in life. I felt like we were alike, two people who were pretty smart, but hadn’t necessarily accomplished as much as we’d set out to, but were hoping to pick up and support each other and make brighter futures together - a lot seemed possible. I thought I’d done due diligence checking out why his previous relationship broke down. His family backed up his version of things believably, but it took years for it to become clear what his role in it and only because I was observant.

My Achille’s heel: Sticking around and giving a lot to adult relationships because there was nothing I could do when as a kid my dad was dying of cancer, but this isn't as much less of an issue for me these days and it has turned into something else - more a fear of "failure" though I am also a bit light on myself with that kind of word too. I am simply too understanding of the complexities of life to beat myself up too much, though I can't say I never do. I try to just use it to motivate myself to improve. I was also an endurance athlete and did other "give lots of effort/hope for success" things in life.  I'm not co-dependent - it's more about being goals oriented, eyes on the future outcome not the present shortcomings, give your all kind of thing that drives me.

Also, I simply adore men and find them easy to understand/get along with and they usually feel the same about me - heck even this guy does which is one reason he won't give me up so easily. I don’t look for problems, but don’t run from them either. I have always been one to face them…that is until…the tsunami of emotions and dysfunction of this current guy washed over me so fast and repeatedly it made my head spin. Was this an illness? Was he just a jerk? How much did I have left to give? I wanted this to be my final relationship in life and I still feel that way. His overwhelming emotions have pushed me to want to escape at times though... .I am not wired like he is and I can't take such strong emotions. His hyper-vigilance is a bit much too.

Yes, I could easily go and start new with a new relationship, there is no shortage of men on the planet, but…I don’t feel the excitement anymore about meeting a new person and starting this kind of thing up again.  Well, it is fun to meet a new person and get to know them, but even if I felt a spark I’d keep it in the friend zone. I am pretty tapped out in terms of what I can offer a relationship partner at this point and I wouldn't want to give less than my all. So, I'd bench myself if I'm ever single again. My life comes first for me at this point, and I want my life to be good more than anything, whatever is left of it.

[Notwendy]

Is your family worried about you after these calls?

[pearlsw]

Hi,   Thanks. No one knew what I was going through so they were all shocked. My cousin previously dated a doctor who researched and had schizophrenia. She is a problem-solver type so she went into her panic mode and sent articles saying to check out various illnesses he might have, etc. My aunt's now deceased husband had a head injury and mental health issues so she projected that onto things. My older brother panicked and called my younger brother who also panicked. Little bro has no passport, but was gathering friends to come and hurt my h. My older bro said he'd fly over and do physical harm to him as well. So, lots of folks projecting and panicking and not having enough info to go on. I tried to condense 7 years into a few minutes for them. I still haven't been able to get my full story out here in a nutshell and I've been here 6 months.

I'm fine. I will handle it. I always do. No other choice really.

[pearlsw]

Sorry to confuse ya'll! By "safe" I mean when it is safe to write and not be seen on this site. When I am totally alone.

I did speak to a free lawyer over the phone last time and once earlier this year in March. The two lawyers I called in November did not call back. I am not a lucrative case for them I'm guessing. I know my rights to an extent, but that is a threat to him when he is in that mode because he wants to "cut the cancer out" immediately. Cancer being me in this scenario, but it doesn't work like that. But his emotions are totally out of control so he makes a lot of drama. I honestly, and I even told him this time, I have no idea when/how we could even get a divorce planned as when he is not dysregulating he does not want one AT ALL, so I can't get him to talk it over and put a plan in place during those times, and when he is freaking out I refuse to give him one... .so... .a real catch-22.

Oh gosh, I think I am not getting to all the points folks asked about... .I am sorry. I will try again another time!

[flourdust]

I did speak to a free lawyer over the phone last time and once earlier this year in March. The two lawyers I called in November did not call back. I am not a lucrative case for them I'm guessing.

No, don't quit. You've just found lawyers who are either crappy or overbooked. It happens. Call others.

It's just making phone calls ... .not climbing a mountain. You can do it.

  You can even give your worried and frustrated brothers something constructive to do by having them call around until they can get legal appointments for you.

[pearlsw]

Hi flourdust!

Thanks for your nice notes and concerns!   I am in a foreign country and my brothers would not be able to deal with the language issues/expense of calling folks here. I got good free legal advice from a special source last month. It is about $480 an hour for a first consultation with a regular lawyer I am told - money that could best be used elsewhere. I found out what I need to - there is no-fault divorce, he can't make the threats against me that he has, he has committed cyber crimes against me, etc. He must support me for 2 years if I contest the divorce. I contest because I do not want a divorce, I have wanted to fix things. He has too, until he gets nervous/suspicious/loses control of his emotions. I don't sign for his sake and mine.

He now says (as usual) he does not want a divorce. He wants medication and therapy. He will see his doctor in a couple weeks I'm told. I know this is not a fast solution, if a solution at all, but I am going to let this play out.

It might seem odd to say, but I am not worried about him divorcing me. I am worried about him upsetting my family and threatening me via them - but I'll get over that if I have to. Go ahead man. Embarrass me, violate my boundaries and privacy - take it all. Your "weapons" are nothing against a goddess.    I am worried about him going after my friends and my job, etc. (But only when he is in a freak out mode, not during his calm times.) I don't want to screw him over in a divorce if it gets that far, and won't, even at my own expense. He's shredded a lot of me but I have a few principles left.  His last divorce was bad and he's still in court with his ex nearly 8 years later - which is part of his stress. He can't even afford the settlement terms he "offers" me when he is like this. (I just loaned him money recently!)

I will agree to a "fast" divorce if he either offers good terms - a chance for me to immediately get back on my feet in the U.S. since I sacrificed ALL to come here, sold my car at a loss, lost standing in my career field, the damage his break up threats have done, etc... I don't want him to be wrecked so near his retirement age, but I don't want my life to be wrecked either - this must be balanced.

What freaks him out is when I don't agree - the terms and costs are very high for him. ($50k minimum for lawyers and he ain't rich.) I have never agreed because I won't agree when he is dysregulating. I know it is not what he wants, but he is in so much pain he can't hold himself. That is the only time he asks for it, but I am also pretty tired of his extreme behavior/lack of basic problem solving skills/inability to handle crisis. I get that he has an illness and I give him leeway, but I can't get any traction in life here as an immigrant because of this constant threat year after year. It's too much. I'm torn myself, but I don't make threats. I want more than anything to make money and have career - whatever it is at this point. A relationship comes second for me in life at this point. I don't know how to pull this off though. I need help with this for sure! Desperately! I am super stressed out and my health is not all it could be.

I would like to negotiate a divorce when he is calm and have it ready to go, but that also feels messed up. He would only ask for that when he is dysregulating. I am not asking for one, but I wish I had one in place so when/if I want one it is set up and ready to go and it can be done once and for all. I would not remain friends with him as I usually have with past boyfriends - better to get it all behind me and no looking back. I don't know how to get him to set a plan into place because it might trigger him and then... .round and round we go.

If I ever need I am sure folks would offer me temporary housing in locations all across the U.S. - so that is good to have confirmed, though I always suspected it was true.

Why does this affect me so much? Even after all the ways he's done this it looks and feels so real and it comes out of nowhere, or out of his jealousies/insecurities (some of it justified, some not). It is shocking and terrifying and I am faced with the wall of my isolation. I try to stay calm and not call people in a panic. I panic a bit, but I don't like to run to people during times of extreme crisis because the crisis always passes and all it ultimately does is upset people - even just folks here who I only know via the boards! It is... .extremely painful and confusing because I see I have helped make this trap, but I refuse to give up my privacy in life. I like my privacy, always have since childhood, that's not gonna change about me. He's a jerk to have violated it so much, but I won't let him turn me inside out and leave me on the doorstep of others. I want control of my life and no one gets to threaten or steal that from me.

thanks so much to all! sorry I have not been able to reply to all yet!

[flourdust]

If you do need to look at divorce scenarios, please post on the Family Law board. You will get some good feedback there. I will only say at this point that people who are new to the process often enter it with unrealistic scenarios in mind ... .and I can see a lot of that in your post.

[pearlsw]

Hi, thanks. I posted there in the past and got zero replies as I recall. I do not really need assistance on that. I doubt anyone else is in the same country and active here too or could help, but thanks.

[Notwendy]

Please consider that proposing divorce in an abusive relationship can lead to escalation. It is said that this is the time a leaving spouse could be seriously injured.

I am not a lawyer or an expert in this. I do donate to a DV organization in my area that runs a hidden shelter for women leaving an abusive relationship. The women are advised to have an escape plans. Many times they leave in a hurry with just the clothing on their backs and children in tow. This place provides housing, clothing, counseling. The location is unknown. I don't even know where it is. This is for safety in case an angry spouse comes after them.

When do you consider a divorce? IMHO it is when you decide to do it. In this case, you don't need your H's cooperation and agreement with this. Considering how things are when you are together and you do not want to do this- how easy is it to get him to agree with you or follow through on things you want from him? Look at his behavior when he is upset.

I am not telling you to do this. This is completely your choice. However, I am sharing this information so that if you do choose this- you have a thought out safe plan in place to get out of the country and a place where you can regain your bearings. You have few right or protection in the country you are in. There are DV shelters like the one I described all over the US.

I know this is the improving board and that you don't want to do this. From your H's emotional reactions to stress, I just want to comment on the waiting until calm decision to bring this up. I am concerned that this may not be a safe way to do this if you did decide.

[flourdust]

That was kind of a brick wall in response, pearl. I'm sorry your last post got zero replies. I'll promise to reply to your next one, OK?

From a million miles away here on the Internet, I'm seeing you being very defensive and shutting down these comments -- not just to me, and maybe it's because I rub you the wrong way, but in your own list of reasons why you can't make an appointment with an attorney.

Are you just trying to avoid having to face difficult choices when in a happy part of the cycle? What do you think the reasons are?

[pearlsw]

Nope, not all all. Not sure why you feel that way - we're all pretty friendly and open here in my experience.  I am not shutting it down at all. I can give more details if you like! I was just trying to not get caught up in the details and stay big picture on this stuff. (I don't have a lot of board time while his guests are here.)

I am just realistic - I've been dealing with divorce threats in one form or another for years. His first one was two weeks after we married. He called his lawyer over and tried to have her (totally unethically) "negotiate" one on the spot in "our" own home. He flipped back and is deeply ashamed to this day he did this, but it was totally believable to all that day. They all are. None of this would have had nearly the same impact were we in my home country. I could see a lawyer for next to nothing and have countless solutions to my problems in my home country - that'd be super!

Being overseas makes things complicated, but not impossible, but I don't need a lawyer at the moment. He would actually freak out... .that is what caused his last freak out, that I said I can't talk this stuff over anymore directly, it is a lot emotionally and he should either email me or talk to me via a lawyer. That is why he started calling my family - he wanted them to pressure me into not going to a lawyer because it would cost him $50k for legal fees, at a minimum. Lawyers here ain't cheap. I know, I saw him have bills like this before and it was actually I that saved him from them - got his lawyer to hold to her word to knock off the bill, etc. Some of it is language stuff too. He didn't get the nuance of what I said I think and that also set him off. His emotions run wild, that's him.

I have limited financial means. I know my legal situation here more or less and I can't reveal my country on the boards. No one in my family speaks the language of this country, I don't either. I do have one language I can communicate with folks here in and I have when necessary.

I already spoke to two lawyers. One in March, one in November. I understand the legal system here as best I can under the circumstances. I also know the tricks of him and his lawyer because I watched/observed them plot out his last divorce, and I already see he is trying to hide stuff from me. Whatever. I don't want it anyway.

I would love it if I was rolling in dough and could call a lawyer - it's hard for me to afford a bus ticket. He has a private lawyer on speed dial. Nevertheless, I am not intimidated by him and his pricey/unethical lawyer - I have stood up to both of them and I will again and again. He is the one that is scared because he has a lot more to lose, but hopefully if we do go that route someday he'll calm down and deal with it more rationally. One can dream!

He has a medical problem. I hope he can get some help for it in the next months. That is his offer to me and I am interested to see how it develops. That and his kids visit is quite a lot to currently focus on. This legal stuff has no traction during the holidays anyway, all is closed, and the police reminded him of as much. He can't have a divorce today no matter how much he flips out. I feel secure about my legal situation as it stands. Strangely, I have much more power than he does over it.

And no, this is not a happy part of a cycle. Nope. His "highs" don't impress me. I have good self-esteem and being told I'm "the most wonderful woman in the world" doesn't phase me any more than being told the nasty stuff. I don't have any blinders on about his behaviors. It is not easy to keep up with his pattern as you've all seen here.

The best I've been able to accomplish is get longer white phases, but, and my h and I even laughed about this the other day... .I used to get smaller volcanos from him on a weekly basis, now I get longer calm periods punctuated with bigger volcanoes. He sees it too. I don't have what many others here deal with - one thing I do have is his self-awareness. He is not mean in the down times. But nevertheless, these cycles, whatever they are - BPD, bipolar, ADHD, PTSD, the whole alphabet soup and emotional abuse, it's serious... .and I am hopeful it will improve, but if not my life will certainly get better - with or without him along for the ride, that I am sure of.  

p.s. I used to work at a DV shelter, handling crisis stuff. Nevertheless this stuff is harder on one's own home front.

[pearlsw]

Sorry if I haven't explained my situation well! I was never able to get the full story out, it's a bit complicated, and because of his tracking of me in the past I never felt comfortable putting all details out. Still don't!

[Notwendy]

I understand that advising others in a DV center is easier than acting on it. I only posted with your safety in mind in case you were not aware of the potential for escalation.

[flourdust]

Thanks for the response. I'll just leave you with a couple of thoughts.

I'm in the US, and lawyers are certainly expensive here, too. You cited an hourly fee for an initial consultation for one attorney that was close to $500. That's not unheard of in the US. My own experience consulting with family law attorneys in a US city turned up hourly rates ranging from just shy of $200 (for inexperienced associates or small independent attorneys) to $500 (for senior partners in large firms). I'd expect even higher rates are available in New York or for certain star attorneys. My point is that there is a wide range of price points out there.

There's no fixed price for divorce. Your husband may have spent $50K on attorneys for something (his last divorce?), but divorce is based on hourly rates and extra services (mediators, court fees, evaluators). Essentially, it comes down to how complex the finances are and if one or both parties is high-conflict by nature. An amicable or at least cordial divorce with uncomplicated finances might run you around $5K. The price goes up the longer one of the parties wants to drag it out.

(EVERYBODY wants a cheap divorce, as cheap as possible. That doesn't mean we get it.)

Finally... .nobody gets a divorce because it fits in the budget. You take a financial hit in getting divorced. You do it because the alternative is worse.

I'm just bringing these up so that you don't have false preconceptions that close off your options.

[DaddyBear77]

pearls, you’ve been through so much and you’re a really strong and resilient person. So many people have said that in this thread in some form or another. So that’s the last I’m going to say about that.

pearls, you’re broke. I’ve seen you say that dozens of times. Are you OK with being so broke? It’s hard for me to tell. I’ve heard you make many references, and I believe you’re implying you can’t do certain things because you’re broke, which leads me to believe you don’t like being broke. But maybe you don’t mind? Maybe you enjoy making a small amount of income and living that lifestyle? Or maybe living in a foreign country limits your earning potential?

Is a part of you is enjoying the adventurous(?) lifestyle of living as an expat in a foreign country where you don’t even know the language? I call It adventurous because honestly that sounds thrilling to me, too, and something I might enjoy myself...

You want to negotiate a divorce when he’s calm, I get it. But maybe the first thing you need to do is figure out what the terms should be in your OWN head. You might need a lawyer later, but you don’t need one to figure out what you really want. Do you want to stay in the country you’re in? Do you want to get him to pay for it? Is that realistic? What could you do for money if he never came through with a cent? Are you ok with living back in the US? He’s calm so take this time to talk to YOURSELF!

By the way, you might want to consider that him deleting your family’s contact information from his iPhone is a show. There are quite a few ways he can just get that info back if and when he needs it - for example, he could write the numbers down before he deletes them. So consider the possibility this isn’t the last time he calls your family. If it’s important to you, you might want to consider filling in key family members as to the specifics of your situation.

I hope this advice is helpful. It’s advice I’d give myself and it’s advice that you and others have probably given me in the past too. Don’t close yourself off to any possibilities here. You’re not being fair to the strength and determination you’ve shown to do that.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi pearlsw, so sorry I didn't see this thread until now. Just wanted to add in my support and encourage you to use his calls to your family as an advantage to yourself. Now they know, and like you said you're less isolated now because of it. Like you I'm living in a foreign country and at the bad times wished I could discuss what was happening with my FOO, especially after I've done so many bad things to them for her BPD. I haven't told them - or anyone besides counselors - purely to avoid burning that bridge for reconciliation between her and my family if she gets into a healthier way in the future. But he's gone ahead and done it for you. Make your family another resource if you can. 

[pearlsw]

Sorry... .my rolling crisis (he's back to threats/"doesn't love me", etc.) doesn't make it possible to maintain a post/think/exist so well. Yes, divorce prices vary. I am unfortunately in no position here to "shop" given that phones/privacy are issues - I would do that effortlessly in my home country. (Basic life tasks are much easier in many regards in my home country.) Yes, it is because I have contested his divorce idea (because it comes in periods of mania/dysregulation/whatever this stuff is and is the total opposite otherwise) that the price would be high. A regular one where both agree is $5-10k. I don't agree and am not seeking one at this time. If that changes I'll let folks know. I'd need a lot of support to make that giant life transition.

I really just posted this "crisis post" to get some kind words and encouragement while I am stuck in this crappy situation for the next week or so - to help me keep my spirits up so I can get through for now. I am really just asking for gentleness, kindness and a few hugs til I can get back onto more solid ground and out of the woods here. I am not in any kind of frame of mind for major problem-solving beyond the basic communication tools I use to function as best I can and that are serving me well under the circumstances... .I am barely able to eat/function/think... .though I'll certainly review any such stuff at a later more healthy point. My nervous system is not running smoothly. My apologies if I am not totally coherent or am clueless due to all that. I truly appreciate anyone taking any time to listen to my struggles and offer their thoughts.

[snowglobe]

Dear @pearlsw, you are doing great, considering the circumstances you are in. Majority of people on this board often find themselves in similar setuation. Some of us choose to persevere and push through, all the while knowing it’s temporary. The rest choose their sanity. Yet, I can help but think, when I see the “repeat offenders”, those members who choose to get out of BPD relationships, only to get themselves involved in another BPD. It’s a psychological pattern of choosing the familiar. Mostly unconscious. In my opinion the more you focus on your own eperseption, coping strategies, the better the outcome. You’ve lived through this hell many times, as you previously described. You will be ok, I promise through this one as well. You know he is mentally ill, so holding off any major decision making helps. There are needs that are being met in these relationships, otherwise you wouldn’t fight so hard at it. Observe and contemplate as to why it’s important. Once things settle down, is there a way for you to take a trip to USA to see your family? Can the pick up a tab on the trip? Sometimes distance makes us see clearly. It’s not for your BPDh, as we know they have no object constancy. It’s for you. I send you virtual hug, and assure you that all will work out for you at the end. It’s all temporary after all

[snowglobe]

Also, how long was his previous longest crisis? How did you manage out of that one? In my experience I always take the worst one and problem solve from there

[itgetsbetter94]

Dear Pearlsw, this whole board holds your back and loves you and appreciates you greatly. Every word from the members was a word of kindness and genuine worry. Please, put yourself in their shoes, what would you advise a person in your situation? There is a point where kind words and tapping on shoulder simply isn't enough anymore.
Do you think, under these circumstances, that you'll ever get better/healthy enough to consider divorce with clear, determined mind?
It's painful to read your posts. To me, you resemble a drowning man who plans to breath when he reaches the land... .but where is the land? Is it even on the horizon?

Kindness, love and compassion radiates from you. One doesn't have to know you in person to see how kind and gentle you are, and stoic at the same time.

How much more do you think you can handle his behavior? Is this situation sustainable without the serious damage to your emotional/physical/psychological well being?

[Notwendy]

For years my H refused marital therapy but eventually he conceded. I thought - great- someone will see how his behavior is affecting our marriage and set him straight, someone will support me. I got a surprise. She focused on me, labeled me co-dependent and sent me to 12 step groups for that.

I was upset. I felt invalidated. I only wanted support. I also was an independent and strong person. How could I be "co-dependent" and what about my H? Why didn't he get a label?

That was one wise therapist. She knew that if she focused on my H- he'd walk out and that would be the end of a chance to help. Besides, he was just fine with his behavior- he didn't do anything wrong. It was all my fault- right?

I was the one concerned- and so it was my responsibility to change things if I wasn't happy with the situation. In the groups, I experienced the same thing. I hoped the group would "support me":"you poor thing, he's a jerk, we understand". Instead the response was: " the problem is you". Working with a sponsor was like emotional boot camp. She wasn't caring or supportive. I realized later though that she loved me in the best way- she was able to call me out on my own stuff and lead me to making changes that helped me in relationships. It was tough love. In the groups we talked about this. Comfort and support feel good, but they may not lead to important changes.

Pearls, you are cared about and supported on this board, but maybe not in the way you think support should be. In the immediate sense- your nerves are shattered and you need a virtual hug.

 

In the long run though, the great love my sponsor and MC gave me was more like a big kick.

There is love in these posts Pearl even if some are hard to read. Don't lose sight of this- you are a good and caring person and worthy of being loved.

[pearlsw]

I am grateful to the community here in every sense. People are certainly free to offer "support" in the ways that feel right to them, in the ways they are able. Oftentimes we offer what we would need in such a situation and don't hear others as clearly, recognize their needs... .I make this mistake all the time in my own replies to others. Offer what I would need, project, rather than listen as well as I'd like to - I'm working on that. I just also think it makes sense for me to ask for my own needs to met - I think that is a healthy and positive thing to model, and I feel very confident and secure in that part of myself. If something does not strike a cord with me, it may with another family member here though and that's super.

To be clear, I am not trying to label my "h", in fact I do a lot to avoid pat labeling and let him feel special and perfect just as he is. That is part of my belief system - that he is complete and whole as he is and that I am accept him as such. I'm personally just trying to hold on in hopes of some more positive changes. I have already seen some, but who knows, life is not always forward linear progress. Life is uncertain and that just is how life is. I am not resisting that element of life. I sometimes wish I could see how this "movie" plays out, but I can be patient with life. Maybe we will be together, maybe we won't in the long run.

As I've mentioned in the past, one thing I am certain of is that I am not co-dependent. It simply doesn't resonate for me, and neither does a lot of what comes out of the addiction community and gets transposed into other areas.

Do I have issues? Sure. We all do. I spoke to counselors about grief when I was younger and they felt quite certain I was fine - just a regular, healthy person who came through grief and found the other side.  My current life is not ideal, but I have no doubt it will get better with time and effort. I am doing my best currently by re-immersing myself in a previous zen practice that I've set down for many years. It is bringing me great comfort and peace moment by moment. I hope to share more about it in time... .

[Notwendy]

Pears- I'm honestly uncertain about what kind of support you wish to have at this time. I agree it is healthy to ask for what you need. Perhaps other posters are able to decide this better but it may help to clarify it/ give an example.

[flourdust]

As I've mentioned in the past, one thing I am certain of is that I am not co-dependent. It simply doesn't resonate for me

I’m not labeling you, but I do have a question. A person with a healthy self-image and relationship skills doesn’t stick around to be abused.

Why do you think you do?

[Radcliff]

Hello friends,

I am hearing some uncertainty about how best to help pearlsw, but I think there's actually a pretty coherent picture here.  For the next week or so, until her visitors leave, she's in survival mode, and just needs cheerleaders, as she told us here:

I really just posted this "crisis post" to get some kind words and encouragement while I am stuck in this crappy situation for the next week or so - to help me keep my spirits up so I can get through for now. I am really just asking for gentleness, kindness and a few hugs til I can get back onto more solid ground and out of the woods here. I am not in any kind of frame of mind for major problem-solving beyond the basic communication tools I use to function as best I can and that are serving me well under the circumstances... .I am barely able to eat/function/think... .though I'll certainly review any such stuff at a later more healthy point. My nervous system is not running smoothly.

Past that point, hopefully Pearls gets to a calm place where she can build strength and take stock.  That's when flourdust and HQ's wisdom comes into play:

Flourdust raises a good point.  We can all be susceptible to feeling the relief, cherishing the good times and wanting to revel in these, however only when things are calm can any productive conversations hope to happen. 

... .and I will add that calm times enable not just productive conversations with your partner, but also calm contemplation and decision making within yourself.

Notwendy was very eloquent in talking about how much learning and change she had to do herself, and how tough it was to confront it, given the fact that her husband should have been owning all that he was doing.  Similarly, in my own recent odyssey where my wife has been extremely abusive, my therapist is helping me to understand how my inability to set boundaries helped get me in this mess.  My wife still owns all the abuse, I'm not taking that on my shoulders, but understanding where I need to grow is going to be critical to getting me to a safe, happy place, whatever form it might take.

Because we love you, we are not always going to take the most comfortable road.  The fact that you've got several senior members pushing on you is very telling -- the best and the brightest of this board believe in you, and see a chance to make a difference.  They are rallying for you.  That is what they did for me, and it got me through a frightening storm.  Pearls, I know now is not the best time to talk about all of this.  Take care of yourself until your visitors go home.  Eat, sleep, breath, drink plenty of water.  Hold your head high.  You are loved and cherished.  As they say, it took years to get here, so it will take time to figure it all out.  It can wait a week, for sure.

 

WW 

[SunandMoon]

Pearls, I get it. At the moment everything is chaotic and you also have his kids staying with you. For now, you just need support and help to get through this bad time to a place where you can think clearly.

You're not stupid, I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts and options going through your mind. Like you, I live in a foreign country and things are not as simple as they would be at home. To leave is a giant step.

For now, just breathe and get through what you need to get through. Remember to eat too!
Sending you big warm hugs... .this too shall pass.  x

[SunandMoon]

Wentworth, I see we posted at the same time... .spot on! ♡

[Turkish]

This thread has been locked due to reaching its post limit.  It's a worthwhile topic.  Feel free to start a new thread to continue the discussion.