Her backstory. I’m a little conflicted.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I understand that some folks focus on disorders and others advise to focus on the behavior and how it affected them. My sister, who is a psychologist and whom I completely trust, advises the latter. I’m kind of stuck between the two currently, but that isn’t what I’m conflicted about.

This is her backstory. I’ll try to condense it as much as possible. Her parents were together until she was 8. She has a younger and an older sister. I believe all of them are 2 years apart. From what she described, her parents relationship was volatile. Loud, cops getting called, infidelity on both sides, etc. Her parents split when she was 8. Her mother took all 3 girls and ran a couple states away. Her father didn’t pursue. She told me that her mom made the dad the disciplinarian and that when she ordered him to whoop them that he would take them in their bedroom and hit the bed with a belt and told them to scream like they were being hit, but wouldn’t harm them. This will play in further into the post. After the split the mom was basically absent. Especially emotionally. She was into drugs, booze and men. Was even working as an escort. The oldest daughter took over the mother role. The mom would come home trashed and the older daughter would have to hold her head out of the toilet. The mom ended up in the psych unit a couple times because she wouldn’t eat or get out of bed. Sounds like she totally checked out. Eventually the mom would abandon the daughters for 4 months, leaving them with their grandmother, to try to get back together with their dad. It ended up not working out. The eventually went to prison for dealing meth. Mom returned to the kids. She eventually met a guy, moved him into their life and married him. Shortly after getting together with him he was put in jail for an extended period for breaking and entering. Her used to make her and her sister stand outside the jail and wave at him through a window. After he was released their dad signed over his parental rights and the new guy adopted them. To describe his character in short, he slit all 4 tires on my ex’s mom’s car several months ago. At age 12 my ex was molested by her uncle. She tried to confide in her mom. Her mom’s reaction was silence and she walked out of the room. Never said anything. An aunt intervened and tried to soothe her. The girls were forced to call the stepdad, dad, and he forced my ex to destroy pictures of her dad. Fast forward. When she turned 18 she left to stay with her dad for a while in another state. From what I’ve witnessed, although she white/blacks them, she is very attached to her parents. I eventually detached from mine. I wonder if that is a contributing factor. Anyway, I’m conflicted because from what I’ve learned, BPD develops very early. Like 3 years old. The abandonment of her dad was at 8. Am I wrong about my suspicions of her having BPD/NPD? Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

[JNChell]

I understand that some folks focus on disorders and others advise to focus on the behavior and how it affected them. My sister, who is a psychologist and whom I completely trust, advises the latter. I’m kind of stuck between the two currently, but that isn’t what I’m conflicted about.

This is her backstory. I’ll try to condense it as much as possible. Her parents were together until she was 8. She has a younger and an older sister. I believe all of them are 2 years apart. From what she described, her parents relationship was volatile. Loud, cops getting called, infidelity on both sides, etc. Her parents split when she was 8. Her mother took all 3 girls and ran a couple states away. Her father didn’t pursue. She told me that her mom made the dad the disciplinarian and that when she ordered him to whoop them that he would take them in their bedroom and hit the bed with a belt and told them to scream like they were being hit, but wouldn’t harm them. This will play in further into the post. After the split the mom was basically absent. Especially emotionally. She was into drugs, booze and men. Was even working as an escort. The oldest daughter took over the mother role. The mom would come home trashed and the older daughter would have to hold her head out of the toilet. The mom ended up in the psych unit a couple times because she wouldn’t eat or get out of bed. Sounds like she totally checked out. Eventually the mom would abandon the daughters for 4 months, leaving them with their grandmother, to try to get back together with their dad. It ended up not working out. The eventually went to prison for dealing meth. Mom returned to the kids. She eventually met a guy, moved him into their life and married him. Shortly after getting together with him he was put in jail for an extended period for breaking and entering. Her used to make her and her sister stand outside the jail and wave at him through a window. After he was released their dad signed over his parental rights and the new guy adopted them. To describe his character in short, he slit all 4 tires on my ex’s mom’s car several months ago. At age 12 my ex was molested by her uncle. She tried to confide in her mom. Her mom’s reaction was silence and she walked out of the room. Never said anything. An aunt intervened and tried to soothe her. The girls were forced to call the stepdad, dad, and he forced my ex to destroy pictures of her dad. Fast forward. When she turned 18 she left to stay with her dad for a while in another state. From what I’ve witnessed, although she white/blacks them, she is very attached to her parents. I eventually detached from mine. I wonder if that is a contributing factor. Anyway, I’m conflicted because from what I’ve learned, BPD develops very early. Like 3 years old. The abandonment of her dad was at 8. Am I wrong about my suspicions of her having BPD/NPD? Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

[Jeffree]

The abandonment of her dad was at 8. Am I wrong about my suspicions of her having BPD/NPD? Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

The abandonment might have been at 8, but I imagine the volatility and instability of her parents' marriage started much earlier.

Also, along with that kind of marriage and infidelity is a high likelihood of sexual/emotional/physical abuse, neglect, poverty, lack of safety, etc.

I am not saying you're right or wrong about what ails her. I'm just pointing out that one moment at one age does not define the environmental factors that formed her.

J

[FindingMe2011]

I understand that some folks focus on disorders and others advise to focus on the behavior and how it affected them. My sister, who is a psychologist and whom I completely trust, advises the latter. I’m kind of stuck between the two currently, but that isn’t what I’m conflicted about.


We are all, at different stages, of the recovery process... .For me I examined the illness, and the r/s, at nauseam, before i had nothing left but me, to examine... .hard pill to swallow, but the answers, I had been looking for, were between my own ears... .as much as our experiences are the same, our recovery will be different


Anyway, I’m conflicted because from what I’ve learned, BPD develops very early. Like 3 years old. The abandonment of her dad was at 8. Am I wrong about my suspicions of her having BPD/NPD? Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Nobody likes to be labeled... .And the behaviour not the diagnosis should be your concern. This should be her concern, if she really wants to become healthier. On her own, and for herself. (this is one of the impossible hurdles BPD, would have to cross) To most likely, be perceived by BPD, as death... .If personalities are developed 90%, by the age of 7, how much, is the trauma experienced, during this period, real or perceived, have a bearing on ones personality? what about repetitive trauma?... .many that have been diagnosed, have suffered sexual abuse, at an early age... .I along with others, believe all that experience childhood trauma, have a piece of their psyche, stuck at that place... .Some revisit to resolve... .others place a bandaid on it, only to repeat... .I wish u well PEACE

[JNChell]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Findingme2011, I’m where you were. I’m a bit obsessed with it I admit. I do have a full grasp on the fact that what I need to fix is me. I feel very sorry for her and what she had to go through, but she doesn’t see it as that big of a deal. She says that she knows she has things to work out, but that it’s not as bad as I say it is. I try to explain to her that it’s scientific and clinical research, she basically says that me and science are crazy and that I need to stop ready “crazy stuff” on the internet. That I should read articles about parenting because I’m obviously a bad Father. She’s in therapy, but I’m fairly convinced that she is solely there for validation. Also, I do believe that a part of my psyche is stuck in my childhood. This is very mysterious to me because I can’t call it up, recognize it and feel it. I wish she would take down her walls and heal, but she is surrounded by enablers that are just as toxic. Basically a bunch of man haters.

Jeffrey, all stated except the sexual abuse, within her FOO anyway. I believe the uncle was a one time incident. No less traumatizing I’m sure. I get what you’re saying about one event that lead her down her path. I can relate to that.

[once removed]

I understand that some folks focus on disorders and others advise to focus on the behavior and how it affected them. My sister, who is a psychologist and whom I completely trust, advises the latter.

theres a lot of wisdom in this.

i dont think theres inherent harm in learning about the disorder, its a matter of what we are learning, why, and what we are doing with it.

i had a lot of unanswered, unresolved questions that i was able to answer to my satisfaction through processing the disorder. learning about things like impulsivity and the fear of abandonment.

i also went down a bit of a rabbit hole. i started to see my unique experience as being the same as everyone elses, and all pwBPD the same way. that led me to over pathologize a lot of things that had a much simpler explanation. i think that became an obstacle in better understanding how my relationship broke down, and my own role in that, which presented an obstacle in doing better going forward.

theres nothing about BPD that isnt human nature, that we cant all relate to on some level, its just more extreme. BPD was like a gateway to me learning more about psychology, human nature, relationships, myself. a messy path, but a good road.

it is largely (not entirely) agreed that BPD is a combination of "nature and nurture".

it is often the case that there is a major trauma that occurs sometime during childhood, but not always. furthermore, there are many that endure a major trauma and do not develop BPD.

some of the most loving families in the world have BPD children, just read the Son or Daughter Suffering from BPD board. one of my favorite success stories was that of a long time member here. long story short, there was no abuse, neglect, or abandonment. she had a hsp (highly sensitive person) daughter, and her parenting style/skills clashed with that. its good news all around today: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120563.0

the bottom line is that knowing her history cant give you a diagnosis, or not. taking it back to what your sister said, it can inform you about her (your ex) behaviors, and how they impacted you. as a quick example, i was able to gleam that my ex and my mother fought hard, ugly and constantly, for the fathers attention and affections. later on, that information allowed me to understand why my ex was always at odds with my mom, often perceived my mom as a threat or competition that wanted her gone. today i also understand that that sort of dynamic (not getting along with your significant others folks) is really pretty common and not unique to BPD, and how the relationship between a significant other and your folks can impact the relationship.

[JNChell]

Thanks for your reply Once Removed. Perhaps it’s time to get a little more unstuck and start to shift my focus to the behavior alone. Mine as well, which I am trying to do. I didn’t like her parents for the simple fact that they put the woman I love and the Mother of my Son through what they did, and I eventually let them both know. It wasn’t pretty and it was a huge mistake, but that’s for another thread, though. It does prove yet again that the relationship never really had a chance. One thing I forgot to mention is how much her parents, stepdad included, moved them around. They never got to settle in anywhere and really make any lasting friendships. Her mom and stepdad even took out fraudulent loans in her name when she attempted college the first time. She does hate her ex stepdad, but I don’t understand how she clings to 2 people that have messed her up so badly. She refuses to see it. Rejects the science and logic of it all. I don’t know. I guess it’s not my battle to try to get her to see it anymore. I have to shift the focus completely on to myself and heal, period.

[once removed]

She does hate her ex stepdad, but I don’t understand how she clings to 2 people that have messed her up so badly. She refuses to see it.

ive seen some folks do this, not just with family, but with romantic prospects that have in some way rejected them. what i knew of my exes dad, her idealization of him always puzzled me. some folks are very driven to gain the approval of someone who has rejected them, which i think we can all relate to on some level.

certainly, you detail a great deal of dysfunction in her family.

I guess it’s not my battle to try to get her to see it anymore.

i agree 

[FindingMe2011]

Also, I do believe that a part of my psyche is stuck in my childhood. This is very mysterious to me because I can’t call it up, recognize it and feel it.

For me, I came to understand this as... .How the body (subconscious), protects the mind ( conscious) ... .When the 12 + yr r/s ended with BPD, I quickly understood why I remained in the r/s... .the pain, was the most I had ever felt before... .but then I learned, it was impossible to feel this way, unless I had before... .it pushed me to explore my FOO... .The chances were better than good, I got a large dose of trauma... .Hmm, may explain why i dont recollect much, of early childhood... .Feelings arent facts, and I dont make good decisions based on feelings... .Changing views about this world, is hard, but not impossible

I wish she would take down her walls and heal, but she is surrounded by enablers that are just as toxic. Basically a bunch of man haters.

Another weak moment, expect them, recognize them... .and give equal time to the other side of the coin... .if your a fair person, be fair to yourself, you deserve at least this much, no? Be kind and giving to yourself... .if you cant, are you really doing this for others?

Hoping for the magic pill, will achieve one thing only, set yourself up for failure... .Read the 10 myths... .post them, where you will see them, a couple of time a day... .the illness is attracted to enablers, and other illnesses... .its going to resist becoming healthier,... .its the path of least resistance... .wash, rinse, repeat... .Lets just say, she does get help, and recover from BPD... .She wouldnt be the person you fell in love with... .Becoming healthier has its pros and cons, also... .I wish u well, PEACE