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Author Topic: cleaning up and self care. stuck in a cycle  (Read 557 times)
Beren2016

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« on: January 29, 2018, 09:19:11 AM »

Hi all

my BPD girlfriend has great difficulty in carrying out basic tidying around her home, to extreme levels  (she lives alone) this is an on going problem and i am concerned this will impact on her health,both mental and physical... .this is a problem that has gone on for years.

i am always trying to help her with this problem, one that she herself identifies, but we constantly hit a brick wall and are stuck in a cycle of it being mentioned, it not getting done, me trying to help and her responding with rage and break ups. i belive she feels pressured and attacked by the conversation.

the problem is that if we dont talk about it, nothing gets done... .but if i talk about it, in her eyes, too much (ie. more than once) she resonds with break ups, albeit temporary, (blamed on me being a nag her being sick of it) after which i then cannot bring up the conversation again.

i do not think this malicious, purposeful or manipulative, i think she actually feels what she says, but  this is her defence mechanism against the self hatred she feels which is triggered by the mess and how that reflects on her... .i know that she somehow blocks out the state of her home and when she "becomes aware of it" she breaks down because of how bad she has let it get. she also wont let me help because she fears i will see it too and hate her (which i would never would do).

the house work needs to get done but at this point there is no way of this happening unless she takes it upon herself, which is extremely unlikely.

i just do not know how to break this cycle and help her with housework and self care without triggering her intense emotions and defence mechanism which shut the conversation down.

thank you for all help






 
 
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juju2
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2018, 09:37:22 AM »

hi,

my pwBPD has tons of stuff that he keeps, inside and backyard, and so our house couldnt really be cleaned.

we separated in march, to work on ourselves, he is in a smaller place and left most of his stuff at our house.  now i can only clean a couple of rooms.

maybe too much stuff is part of the disorder.  He enjoys keeping photos of people and families, people he doesnt know.  He got a lot of this stuff when he used to buy storage units that people stopped paying on... .

I just dont focus on it, i am powerless over his stuff.

j
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isilme
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2018, 10:20:18 AM »

Excerpt
the house work needs to get done but at this point there is no way of this happening unless she takes it upon herself, which is extremely unlikely.

This is going to sound weird, but, why does the housework need to get done?

She chooses to live in her house like this.  She apparently agrees "something" needs to be done.  But she is never going to do it herself if you intermittently help her.  I know her house is likely not ideal, and likely is reaching a rather gross level in some places if not all, but just like you can't control her, you can't make her control her space. 

Does it need to get done because it bothers YOU to be over?  Because it makes you uncomfortable?  I realize the hazards of a mess, please keep reading, but we all have to work on removing our desires for what we want as normal from what our pwBPD can do and are willing to do, and see where we can meet and agree with them before any progress is made.   

H is not good at keeping up with housework.  Since we live together, this affects me directly, and upset my calm, and I like a relatively tidy place.  He would be fine washing dishes only as he needs them unless company was coming over.  He can let the trash pile up into needing 2-3 bags before it dawns on him to take it out, and I bet he has never paid attention to the days the truck actually comes for it. But since we share a space full time, I clean the house, I do pretty much all chores as I am physically able all myself, because I want it done, I feel better in a clean house, and so does he overall, but it's my neatness-needs that drive me to do it.   If I can choose between a nice morning and a fight over doing dishes, I'd much rather do the dishes.  I lost any drive to nag about it, engage in fights about it, and try to not get defensive when illness or long work hours prevent me from cleaning and he gets cranky it's not done.

Some of this is simply due to the fact some people are neater than others.  In most couples, one person is "the slob" and one is tidier.  In society, we often expect the woman to be more tidy, but this is not true at all - I know men who are really really neat freaks and vacuum daily. 

Add to this his mother is a hoarder.  She hoards things, trash, and tries to hoard animals.  She is both overwhelmed by her mess, and also seems overwhelmed by open space to the point she must put something, anything, a box full of 10-year-old paperwork into any open space.  This means for her, it's natural to have only a one-foot walkway in any room (unsafe for two elderly people who can barely walk). 

H gets overwhelmed there.  He hates the mess, but also feel powerless for two reasons - it's a lot of small decisions to make as you sift through things to clean (I can make these pretty quickly for MOST items - trash, but he got a paralysis about such things from his mom).  Also, his mom freaks out that her legacy is being destroyed, and she does not realize or care that her legacy is under a pile of old magazines, bills, and cat vomit, and she is ruining all she cares about by leaving it in piles on the floor, on tables, on counters, rather than throwing away trash and putting away useful things. When she DOES try to clean, she reads every single damn piece of junk mail to be sure it does not need to be shredded (H also does this) and it's not got some things she may want to save. 

In order to visit, I have learned to simply move things where she can see them, that I have not thrown them out (some I DO throw out - expired, gross food, yes, u the trash - hidden under paper towels so I won't get yelled at for being wasteful).  We have a limit as to how long we can stay without feeling a need to alter the enviroment to a level for OUR comfort that will cause her to fight us. 

Anyway - I tried mentioning mess, arguing about mess, making statements about mess.  What I have found with H is that words don't go as far as actions and examples.  He sees me get up for work on days I feel less than well - he is less likely to think it's okay to stay in.  He sees me folding my laundry, 1 in 5 times, he will start to fold his.  He sees me doing dishes, he might go put DVDs away. It may not be much, but it's something. 

So at what level is your GF's mess?  How have you mentioned it?  How do you go about cleaning when you are there?  Have you made it clear it makes you not want to be there?  It makes you not want to come over/eat/sleep in a messy palce?  That bugs are drawn to certain messes and things like paper and cardboard boxes?   Does she come from a family of hoarders?  Is she overwhelmed by losing stuff?  Is she overwhelmed by how much mess there is?  Is it just diry dishes and unfolded clothes,or is it even worse, like piles and piles of things all over where you can't even sit?  How much can you clean before she freaks out?  Or does she? Is it the act of cleaning and the poor executive control that comes with taking care of yourself perventing her? Or is it an attachement to things that makes it hard? Both?
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Tattered Heart
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2018, 01:45:56 PM »

Hi Beren2016,

I know your dilemma all too well. In our last house, my H had a2 rooms dedicated to his junk that he wouldn't get rid of. We bought a new house and his junk has started to overtake a room and outside the house. I hate it and it makes our yard and home look junky and dirty. My H also does not clean up after himself very often. Sometimes I catch him just throwing trash on the floor instead of putting into the trash can and if I mention it, then he just leaves it on the counter. At times his trash build up gets so overwhlmeing for me.

I think both juju and isilme make some really good points. I've always heard the phrase cluttered mind, cluttered house. At the same time, a cluttered environment can make someone feel more negative so simply the act of cleaning can make a world of difference in mental clarity.

So here's what I see:
Your gf knows the house is a mess
She knows the mess is a problem
She still refuses to take care of the mess
Until the mess becomes a real problem
She cleans up the mess
The mess starts over again

Would you say that's a good summary?



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Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life Proverbs 13:12

Beren2016

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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 03:25:12 AM »

thank you all for you in put it has give me alot to think about

Tattered Heart, those are my thoughts on a tidy enviroment will help make things feel more stable for her.

for me the cycle is almost as you describe but slighly different, which is were the problem lies

Your gf knows the house is a mess
She knows the mess is a problem
She still refuses to take care of the mess
Until the mess becomes a real problem
[gf mentaly "blocks out" and ignornes the mess due to the shame she feels]
[i try to talk about it or tidy up which provokes rage as a defence mechanism against the shame]
[The mess doesn't get tidied]

or she "notices" the mess and breaks down


the wall comes in step 5 + 6 where it is imposible to bring the subject up or deal with it, there are alot of feelings, for her, attached to this and it makes her feel vulnerable and feel alot of self hatred because of, what she sees, as a failure on her part. her only way of defence agaisnt this is too push it all away including any help which draws attention to it

i don't attach any judgement to this... .i just wish to help her with something that causes her alot of trauma but i am struggling to provide this help as i do not know how to provide the help without triggering a defence mechanism... .


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isilme
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2018, 10:49:40 AM »

Beren2016,

Excerpt
i just wish to help her with something that causes her alot of trauma but i am struggling to provide this help as i do not know how to provide the help without triggering a defence mechanism

But here's the issue - you see the MESS as the issue causing her trauma - the mess is just a symptom of the BPD which is what is REALLY causing her the trauma.  The BPD is what she needs help with.

We all want to rescue and fix things, and see the day-to-day things as the "problem" but really they are not. The disordered thinking that leads to a disordered house/life is the problem.  Life with BPD is a form of daily triage.  What MUST I take care of, and what can be allowed to fall by the wayside?  I have to pick things I can allow H to "fail" at, or put off till he feels enough like doing them.  His laundry?  If I allow him to follow his schedule, it will be midnight Sunday before he remembers it, and will mess up MY shower time. So for my own benefit, I do his early in the day to get it done.  This saves me a minor upset about him not having clean clothes screwing up my trip to work.  Putting his laundry away?  He can do that.  If he wants his clothes put away, he can take care of that on his own time or live out of his two clean clothes piles (once he finally gets rid of old clothes that are taking up space and don't fit - this is emotionally charged for him).  Do I like the pile of clothes? No.  But it's not in my way usually, and I need to let him decide to deal with that.

This is really hard - but can you see how long you can ignore the mess without being seen cleaning (passing judgment) or talking about it (again, passing judgment)?  She needs some validation that even as a mess of a person, you care about her.  Her mess is a girl crying on the floor in sweatpants feeling ugly.  She needs her FEELINGS to be heard, before any headway can be made about the mess. 

Also, is there any way to SHOW her gently how to take care of things while trying to make it clear you are not passing judgement by doing so?  Or maybe give her some incentive to clean and then teach her to keep it clean?  Like a party/game night with any friends?  H will be willing to clean if people are coming over - he freaks out, does an inefficient (in my mind) job of it, but he will put more effort into cleaning in the 2 hours before guests come than he will in a normal week.  She may feel so unloveable, so unliked, that why bother to clean?  What's the point?  It's just going to be a mess anyway in her mind.  Like people who don't make the bed - why bother?   
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