Not allowed to express my feelings

[Perdita]

Things have gotten a lot worse lately in this regard.  I am absolutely not allowed to express my feelings unless they are feelings he agrees I am allowed to have.  If not, he loses it and rages on and on at me.  He shouts, hits things, tells me that he is under a lot of stress at work or worries about family.  Anything to make me feel guilty about daring to try talk about how his actions of late make me feel.

It's always about him and his feelings.  Constantly, in fact.  I feel I am not even human and allowed emotions.  This has escalated over the past month.  I've learned to suppress a lot of my emotions around him, but sometimes it becomes so overwhelming and in those moments I try to start a dialogue.  I tried again today and with the same results.  He immediately started shouting at me and telling me he is having a bad day and that I've made it worse.  He says that every time.

Much of the current conflict started in November when he heard his ex gf is divorcing.  He wasted no time in calling her up and arranged a "meeting".  At least that is what he calls it.  He said he had to ask her some questions so that he can get closure.  I call it a date as he dressed up, took out his vintage car and went to have lunch with her at a nice country restaurant (the very one I had asked him not two weeks prior to take me to! Instead he took her.).  He didn't take my calls during their date.  He came back and told me what a ridiculous woman she is and how he can't believe he was ever with her.  I have posted here way back about his obsession with his ex.  It's severe, but he denies it and tells me I have an over active imagination.

Around early January I became suspicious once again that they are having regular contact.  He went into a rage when I asked him about it and told me to stop accusing him of things he didn't do.  In the end I apologized to him and this was followed by a long smug lecture from him. 

Not surprisingly, I then found out my suspicions were correct.   He confessed about a month ago when he thought I had read their messages (which I hadn't!).  He said he was sorry, that he loves me and wants it to work between us.  I told him it was time to delete the ex from his contact lists and block her where necessary.  He agreed.  Two weeks later he still had not done it.  Both times I bought it up he went into a rage, shouting and hitting things, telling me he has enough stress in his life and I am making it worse.  So 2 weeks after I asked him to deleted her, I lost it.  How long does it take to do?  He had plenty of stupid excuses as to why it wasn't possible to do.  After over 3 months of this s*** I reached my breaking point.  He showed no emotion, nothing at all. 

After we patched that up, I tried to talk to him about how hurtful it is to me that he is still holding on to that woman (who has had affairs more than once with married men and therefore not exactly trustworthy herself).  He swore that he has no more contact, but I can see them on Whatsapp at the same times!  He has no idea I have her #.  I don't want him to know.  Anyway, he wouldn't hear about my concerns about it and acted like an aggressive childish teen.   He kept shouting, swearing and rolling his eyes every time I tried to talk about it.  I got absolutely nowhere at all, got cut down harshly every time.

I don't even know why I am typing this other than I need to get it out somehow.  I have no one to talk to about it which makes it worse.  I am just tired.  Is this how it will always be?  Are we never allowed to have feelings and to express them?  Is it always all about them?

[Lucky Jim]

Is this how it will always be?  Are we never allowed to have feelings and to express them?  Is it always all about them?

Hey Perdita, These are great questions.  Before taking a stab at answering them, let me pose a few questions to you: What would you like to see happen?  What are your gut feelings about your r/s?  What is the right path for you?  I know these are tough questions.

Concerning your questions, I would say that, unless you change, things will remain the same.  Sitting around waiting for a pwBPD to change or follow through with something can be a lonely vigil.  Of course you are entitled to your feelings, which make you the unique person that you are, and you should be free to express those feelings.  I would suggest that this is an essential component for any r/s, BPD or not.  If you can't be yourself, maybe the r/s is not right for you.  Yes, it usually is about them due to their overwhelming feelings and fears, which you could describe as emotions on steroids.  Quelling those feelings is an ongoing task in a BPD r/s, in my experience.

Do these answers make sense to you?

LJ

[Cat Familiar]

I'm hoping that you decide to no longer stick around listening to the rages. He can have them, but you don't need to be present.

Also, he may never be open and available to listen to your feelings. I hope you have some other support in place where you can fully express yourself. You need that.

And yes, it seems there's a concurrent bit of narcissism with BPD in that they feel their feelings are more important than anyone else's. You just have to live with that. Sigh... .

 

[Perdita]

Hey Perdita, These are great questions.  Before taking a stab at answering them, let me pose a few questions to you: What would you like to see happen?  What are your gut feelings about your r/s?  What is the right path for you?  I know these are tough questions.

Thanks Jim.  I would like for him to start seeing his psychologist again.  He started therapy in December, but only had 6 sessions.  I do think it helped him even though he doesn't.  Prior to him finding out about the ex divorcing, things were going so well between us finally .  Then this bomb got dropped on me.  It seems there will always be drama whereas I crave a peaceful union.  I started working with a new company and am going to do my best to become financially independent, but this hurt keeps coming over me like a dark cloud.  I find myself thinking more in terms of having a Plan B (life on my own).

Of course you are entitled to your feelings, which make you the unique person that you are, and you should be free to express those feelings.  I would suggest that this is an essential component for any r/s, BPD or not. 

I agree, but it is actually starting to feel unnatural to want to do so.  I've never been allowed over a 5 year period, but now he is so much more aggressive about me not being allowed to share emotions.

If you can't be yourself, maybe the r/s is not right for you.  Yes, it usually is about them due to their overwhelming feelings and fears, which you could describe as emotions on steroids.  Quelling those feelings is an ongoing task in a BPD r/s, in my experience.

He was going on about having fear again on Monday.  I am just getting so tired of it always being all about him whereas my own feelings don't matter.  When we were patching things up after our big row about his ex, he told me that I hurt his feelings when he send me a message during that time asking if he should pick something up on his way home.  I was in bed sick at the time.  I replied "no".  He told me that I am rude and should have replied "no, thanks".  I told him I was kind of out of it and "no" was all I could manage at the time and it was not meant in a rude way.  He kept at it, telling me how mean I am.  I then said hey hang on, all this started with you still chatting with your ex, but I am not allowed to be hurt by that yet you are hurt because I didn't say "thanks" in my message?  It's crazy making how everything is always about him.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, Perdita,

Seeing a psychologist is progress for a pwBPD (or anyone else) and maybe he would consider going back.  Usually those w/BPD are highly resistant to the idea of therapy, so I'm unsurprised that he feels it didn't help.  Yet Six sessions is more than most, or at least more than my BPDxW ever lasted, so maybe you can build on that.  Do you think he might entertain the idea of returning for more sessions?

Yes to Plan B.  It's your life, my friend, and you're the Captain of your Ship.  Call me crazy, but at the end of the day I think it's about your happiness, right?

I can relate to his hostility towards your feelings, because my BPDxW was the same.  I practiced disengagement and got to the point that I wouldn't share any feelings w/her, which helped in a way, but at that point it wasn't much of a marriage.

As to whether you were rude, I suggest you avoid those types of circular conversations and try to stay above the fray, which I understand can be tough at times.

LJ

[BeagleGirl]

I have no one to talk to about it which makes it worse.  I am just tired.  Is this how it will always be?  Are we never allowed to have feelings and to express them?  Is it always all about them?

 
I'm so glad you are talking about it here.  It's not quite the same as having "real life" people to talk to, but there is so much experience, understanding, and wisdom in these boards that it makes up for the lack of a body to sit across the table from you.

You mention that you don't have anyone to talk to about this.  Is there a chance that is because your pwBPD is isolating you or encouraging you to isolate yourself?  Some of the behavior you describe sounds like it could be forms of manipulation that could qualify as emotional and/or psychological abuse.  It helped me to recognize that there are differences between a difficult relationship and a destructive relationship.  As I understood what those differences are it became easier to gauge my responses accordingly.  :)ifficulties can be worked through.  :)estruction is something you need to protect against.  

I do agree with Lucky Jim that whether things stay this way is largely up to you.  While your pwBPD may not be entirely happy with the relationship, he has developed a pattern of behavior that works for him.  He has a relationship that allowed him to go on a "date" with an ex.  He has a relationship where he can express his needs and emotions and suppress yours.  It may not be as easy on him as he would like, but he's gotten you to the point of asking if you should just accept that this is the way a relationship should be.

Do you think that your questions could be expressed as "How can I change this relationship to make it fulfilling for me?  If I can't change the relationship, am I willing to stay in it?"?

[Lucky Jim]

Do you think that your questions could be expressed as "How can I change this relationship to make it fulfilling for me?  If I can't change the relationship, am I willing to stay in it?"?

Nicely said, BG.  I agree with how you phrased those questions, which get to the heart of the matter.

How about you, Perdita?  Do you find those questions useful?

LJ

[Perdita]

Thanks for the replies.    I will get to them soon. 

Just want to update.  Last night he send a message apologizing and said that I am the only one that loves him as he is and he does not want to lose that.  We didn't speak last night. 

Today he is out of town, but he called a little while ago and soon went into a rage again.  What upset me was when he shouted  "what more do you want me to change?".  I asked what he meant with "what more".  I mean, this relationship has been 98% about him and what he wants.  The 2% that really bothers me and that I've been vocal about (his ex and his crush) has been met with such hostility from him whenever I bring it up. 

There is nothing wrong with me not wanting him to hang out with other women!   Yet he makes me out to be insane. 

We went out of town for one day in December.  On that day his crush phoned and asked him to meet her at a bar - it was still morning!  I said nothing, but it ruined our day away as he went from excited to distant and uninterested.  Later I brought the call up and he shouted at me that there was nothing wrong with it and had he been in town he would have gone to the bar to meet her.  He hates bars, btw, but she drinks like a fish and loves them.  This, btw, after I lowered my self to the point of telling him he could visit her when she is in town but only at her family home with them there.  He agreed on this at the time, but soon I discovered they were sneaking around.  She hates me, so believe me when I say she relishes her part in this.  I am convinced that if she didn't hate me she wouldn't even bother with him in the least.  She is a narc.

He says as long as he is not having sex with other women, it is ok for him to spend time with them.  This guy keeps getting into emotional affairs.  No wonder I am always feeling emotionally abandoned and drained.  He doesn't get it.  He is emotionally very immature for a man of almost 40.  It is like trying to reason with a 14 year old boy.

The other thing is that I was able to listen to two voice messages he send his ex.  One was on the day he had gone out with her.  He told her that I am insane.  Me!    He went on to tell her that he doesn't think he can take much more of my insanity! All done in a sad poor me voice.   That same day he send me a message telling me that he can't believe he ever had a relationship with her and that she is ridiculous and not his cup of tea!  The other message to her was the day after they met up.  He thanked her again for seeing him.  The whole message he was talking in this love sick little voice and told her "you're a special girl".  Then towards the end he quoted a song and was trying so darn hard to be sexy as he did it.   

 Yeah, but I am the insane one.  He has told so many people that I am chemically imbalanced, but  he doesn't know that I know.  It is so hurtful.  People think the problem is with me.  They have no idea what he puts me through.  That aside, he does have way too many people in his life with very low morals that have a way of making it seem they are in the right and the rest of us are the problem (if you know the type).  It only adds to the whole crazy making thing.

I guess the saddest part of it all for me is that I find myself looking at him when he is being like this and I think wow this person is really very sick.  I've known for years, of course.  It's just become so clear to me now.  I don't know why it is so sad  though.  Anyone else feel sad on a very deep level about having a sick SO?

[Perdita]

I'm hoping that you decide to no longer stick around listening to the rages. He can have them, but you don't need to be present.

Thanks, Cat Familiar.  I agree that I don't have to be around for his rages.  Unfortunately there are times when I can't get away from them.  I've noticed he likes to save the worst of it for when we are in the car on our way somewhere that will take a couple of hours and he is driving.  It's  a kind of gotcha thing.

Also, he may never be open and available to listen to your feelings. I hope you have some other support in place where you can fully express yourself. You need that.

It's hard.  How can we talk about them to people without them either thinking we are nuts or hating our SO and then things come to the surface that creates more trouble? 

There are two women that use to be in relationships with his friends that I have spoken to about it.  One much much more than the other.  The one I have confided in most over a period of years has kept it between us and has told me that she believes me and doesn't think I am crazy.  Not surprisingly, we haven't chatted this year.  I think after years of listening to me she got tired of it, which I understand.  She thinks I need to get out.  Also, she doesn't really want anymore links to her past relationship which ended horribly.   As for the other woman, my SO is way too paranoid about her.  She's a tough one and very outspoken.  She doesn't care much for him.  She admitted to me that she thought I was the problem until she heard my side and also started noticing certain behaviour in him.  We don't talk anymore except for small talk.  It is better that way due to his reaction to her.

And yes, it seems there's a concurrent bit of narcissism with BPD in that they feel their feelings are more important than anyone else's. You just have to live with that. Sigh... .

True and that narcissistic streak is particularly hard on me because I have a narc parent.  No one that grew up with that wants to deal with it again in their close relationships.

[Cat Familiar]

Perdita,
You are dealing with abuse, plain and simple. He's been able to undermine you so that now you are questioning yourself. As with many of us here, you are overly tolerant. Simply said, it is not appropriate for him to "date" his ex and presume that you'd be OK with it. If the shoe were on the other foot, do you think he'd be OK with you dating your now-single ex?

My ex-husband tried to get me to think that it was OK for him to have a sexual relationship with his ex because it wasn't "going anywhere" and he thought she was silly and stupid. I never got on board with this and so he sneaked around with her for years. Finally I introduced her to my ex and they ended up getting married.    But then my ex-husband found any number of women to sneak around with.

He tried the same types of manipulation on me, undermining my self-confidence, so I can easily see it now in your relationship.

I fully support your plan B. That way you can take control of your life and feel confident that you and your feelings matter.

It's classic "whataboutism" for him to equate you not saying "thank you" with him maintaining a relationship with his ex. PwBPD are so eager to play the "You hurt my feelings, wahhhhhhh... .wahhhhh... ." card. This is nonsense.

Cat