I am so sad that my son is in this abusive relationship—feel like I’ve lost him

[Hopeful15]

Within 2 weeks of a relationship with his girlfriend (now wife),I knew something about my son had changed and it wasn’t for the better. Suddenly my son was closed off and non-communicative.  My husband didn’t notice right away but because I have always had a very close connection with my son, I knew something was wrong.
Fast forward 10 months later and after months of very little communication, my son and his girlfriend announced that they were going to get married.
I was so shocked as I really didn’t expect the relationship to last since my son didn’t seem happy at all.  On the few times we did see them, he was very serious and quiet( had been known as an easy going guy), he was stuttering ( had seen a speech therapist as a child but had outgrown in), he asked us to remove any items from our home that were gifts from his former girlfriends. He changed his phone number. He refused to talk about anything from his past that happened when he did have a different girlfriend.  In the first few months of the relationship, I felt comfortable to still ask him questions and I remember him saying that he was going to work really hard to make this relationship work. I think he was willing to do whatever it took.
As time has gone by, my son is now completely isolated and the only person he has any meaningful conversation with is his wife. He has abandoned all of his friends and family. Before the wedding she accused my son of being verbally abusive and made him attend group meetings for abusive spouses. She accused him of being an alcoholic and made him attend AA meetings. (No-one that knows my son has ever known him to say an unkind word to anyone -nor did he show any signs of a drinking problem) She made him go to counselling as well. He called his best friend of 10 years a month before his wedding and told him he didn’t want him attending their wedding ( he had previously asked him to be his best man) and didn’t give him a reason. I found out later, it was because he was supposedly a ‘trigger’ for my son’s drinking.
On one occasion we received a phone call from the police.She had reported my son missing ( He was gone for an hour). She couldn’t locate him and told police he was drinking and drugging so she cut off his bank account/credit card so he couldn’t access more alcohol.Police called us looking for him and then called us back saying they located him and he was fine. Then we talked to my son and he said he was fine - she was making it up and she was crazy. They said his girlfriend ( at the time) was more concerned about herself than she was about my son.  She later texted me but I didn’t reply and that’s when everything got worse. My son suddenly changed his tune and got mad at me for not supporting his girlfriend. Then a month later they had their wedding and we have only seen them a few times. There is barely any contact.  I am so sad that my son is in this abusive relationship and I feel like I’ve lost him forever

[heartandwhole]

Hi Hopeful15,



Welcome to the community. I'm sorry to hear that you feel you've lost your son. It's definitely an adjustment when a son or daughter gets married, but to witness the kind of behavior that you have is very difficult. 

You've found a great place for support. Members here have been in similar situations and understand. And there are a lot of resources on the site that can help, for example, communication skills.

To make sure I understand, do you think your daughter-in-law might have traits of BPD?

Keep posting. It helps to share.

heartandwhole

[Hopeful15]

Yes I do. She told me (when we used to speak) that she was hospitalized at age 19 and diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and was medicated but felt that was no way to live. She got a degree and then left her family. She blamed her parents for abusing her and decided to go off her medication. She decided to get her Masters degree in Psychology and “fix” herself. She was just finishing that degree when she met my son. They moved in together after knowing each other for about 3 months. She immediately got her name on the title of his house, they were engaged 6 or 7 months later and they have just become more and more distant.  My son has really changed and is confrontational and blaming. When I have tried to get clarity on his behaviour change and trying to understand what was happening he wrote me scathing emails (language was completely different than his usual language - I think he was influenced quite a bit) He was saying I was emotionally dumping on him, I was manipulative and bullying. I was floored - I didn’t know where this was coming from. I was just trying to get together for coffee with him and he just wouldn’t do it. They are always together - I mean when they used to come over, they wouldn’t leave each other’s side for a minute -always touching, holding hands, cuddling.
Over time, they stopped responding to texts and emails and would not show up at family get together or would cancel at the last minute.
Things started to look hopeful around their wedding. They were both acting quite normal - but they wanted our help and our money - which we gave them. That was 6 months ago and now it is back to what it used to be.
I truly think she has isolated him, has severe abandonment issues, is very controlling - has no friendships, struggles in the workplace. It just makes me so sad that he got tangled up with this person

[Hopeful15]

Just to clarify... .I know my daughter in law was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder but I don’t think that’s what she really has.  She hasn’t taken medication for years and it seems she hasn’t needed any intervention in the lasts 2 1/2 years that I’ve known her.   But there is something off. Besides the unhealthy behaviour that I’ve observed with my son, she seems to constantly be in conflict with someone. Whether it be a stranger, work colleague or family member- Someone has always done her wrong. I’ve yet to see her take responsibility for the conflict. 
And until I was directly targeted, I didn’t realize how her thinking is distorted. She describes her experience so much different than what my husband and I have experienced. I have tried to validate her feelings but she wants me to acknowledge that I was completely wrong by not supporting her ( when in fact I was supporting my son) and pledge that I will support her in the future no matter what. I just can’t do that but tried to tell her that I never want to hurt her and I want us to be on good terms. Her answer to me is “That’s not good enough”. And basically we have only engaged in small talk (no meaningful conversation) for the last 8 months. But my son is completely on board and participates in their coldness towards me.  That’s the part that hurts

[heartandwhole]

But my son is completely on board and participates in their coldness towards me.  That’s the part that hurts

I totally understand this, Hopeful15. It would hurt me, too, to feel isolated from my son. You are not alone, and we'll walk with you through this.

If she is actively trying to keep him away from you, that shows, at the very least, deep insecurity on her part. On the other hand, your son is an adult and makes his own decisions.

I love your username—what are you hoping for in this situation? Would you like communication to improve with your son and DIL? We can definitely help with that. There are ways to respond and talk to your DIL that can help.

For example, Communicate | S.E.T. (Support, Empathy, Truth) is a good way to connect with your son and DIL without compromising your values.

What do you think?

heartandwhole

[Hopeful15]

thanks for your note heart and whole. I have read the communication article (SET) and completely agree with this theory.  It will take work for me to be very thoughtful about my reaction when I am “in the moment”. Although it has become very clear to me that my current approach to conflict will not work with my son and his wife.  I made a lot of assumptions that because my son knew me my whole life, we could have a disagreement, which sometimes involves getting emotional, but then we would resolve it. That’s how it has worked in our house. But now his wife will not tolerate if voices are raised and facial expressions change... .And so I need to accommodate.
You asked me what I was hoping for and although I know this is not the right answer, what I am really hoping for is that my son will get out of the relationship with this person and find someone who is kind , balanced and supportive and likes being around family.  But I know that may never happen.
I work with people with disabilities and fully understand that when someone has a disability, they have barriers and it is not within their control.  It is harder to accept an “invisible” disability, one that involves lashing out at people who have done nothing to deserve it.  As such, I feel an anger and resentment towards both my son and his wife. We all have problems and life is hard, but one thing I have never done is overtly blamed someone else and knowingly hurt them not once but over and over again- so I am having a hard time with this.  My son’s behaviour is a choice he has made and I am having a hard time getting over it. He was raised with so much love - I know he is a kind and thoughtful person- what is going on?
So when you ask me what I want, I want the future to be different from what I am experiencing right now. I want a relationship with my son and I want to want to have a relationship with his wife, but I don’t want to do it with this underlying anger I have right now. So I have to make some changes within myself before I do anything else. And I’ve searched myself and the answers aren’t coming easily to me.  I am grateful for this outlet and am hopeful about what I can learn from it.

[heartandwhole]

I have read the communication article (SET) and completely agree with this theory.  It will take work for me to be very thoughtful about my reaction when I am “in the moment”.

I'm with you, Hopeful15. When I am in the throes of intense emotions, the communication skills I've learned can go right out the window. You are definitely not alone in that. Step by step, we practice, we learn, we grow. It may even feel weird at first when you adopt a change in communication, but with time, it becomes easier and you feel more confident and authentic when you are communicating that way. In fact, I'd say that it helps us listen to ourselves and understand our feelings as much as the person we are communicating with.

Although it has become very clear to me that my current approach to conflict will not work with my son and his wife. And so I need to accommodate.

This is huge. Many of us take a lot longer to realize that we only have control over our own responses. Especially when it involves a loved one whom we want to protect from hurt more than anything in the world.

You asked me what I was hoping for and although I know this is not the right answer, what I am really hoping for is that my son will get out of the relationship with this person and find someone who is kind , balanced and supportive and likes being around family.  But I know that may never happen.

I don't think this is a wrong answer—it's your honest answer, which is 100% valid and understandable. And I think a kind, balanced, supportive spouse is exactly what most parents want for their kids.

As such, I feel an anger and resentment towards both my son and his wife. We all have problems and life is hard, but one thing I have never done is overtly blamed someone else and knowingly hurt them not once but over and over again- so I am having a hard time with this.  My son’s behaviour is a choice he has made and I am having a hard time getting over it. He was raised with so much love - I know he is a kind and thoughtful person- what is going on?

Absolutely understandable. In your shoes, I'd feel the same. This IS hard. But there is hope and you can get through it.

I want a relationship with my son and I want to want to have a relationship with his wife, but I don’t want to do it with this underlying anger I have right now. So I have to make some changes within myself before I do anything else.

I really hear you, and commend you for being willing to adapt and change so that you can maintain a relationship with your son and DIL. I recommend giving yourself time to feel your feelings and grieve the losses that are coming up. Turn toward yourself and shower yourself with compassion as best you can. This is difficult work, but so worth it.

Things can change between you and your son; they can get better. I've seen it. It's not without pain, but you know that already. We're here for you.  

heartandwhole

[once removed]

hi Hopeful 15, id like to join heartandwhole in saying

its a really hard position to be in, to watch your son in an abusive relationship, and isolating himself, and feeling powerless to do anything about it.

its a journey only he can face, but you can play a supporting role. the most positive and constructive thing you can do is consistently let him know you are there, and support him; reach out/be available without overwhelming, invite both of them to gatherings. and of course you will need to navigate the difficulty with her, and the communication techniques can go a long way there.

when was the last time you spoke to either of them?

[Hopeful15]

Hello Onceremoved.
Thanks for your thoughts. I have to say I told myself I would not email or text either of them other than with specific invitations/ facts with no emotional content.
Because I wrote my son an email trying to get clarification of his behaviour and telling him that I loved and missed him etc and all of my words were taken out of context and twisted around. (they have a joint email so I suspect it was my DIL writing back or at least coaching). I nearly fell off my chair. I since had my daughter read it and she told me it was a very loving note.  They said I was saying the things I said just trying to manipulate the situation and I was emotionally dumping... .So although I want to send a note saying I care etc I am very reluctant to do so.
The last time we saw them was Christmas. There are only 6 of us in the city here that are related so if they didn’t get together with us, they would have no-one. We could have travelled to a city 3 hours away to celebrate Christmas where we have a lot of extended family, but wanted to stay here for our 2 kids (and their partners). So although we spent the time together at Christmas, it felt pretty empty to me- like they couldn’t wait to get out of here.
I have heard over and over again that I have to be quiet, accept and support - so that’s what I’m doing. But even though they live only 10-15 minutes away, there is very little contact.  Sometimes I see what I think is their vehicle and it brings a flood of feelings to the surface.  I try not to think about it but there are so many reminders. I often wish they would move to another city so I could move on more easily

[once removed]

people with BPD traits have an intense fear of abandonment. friends and family may be seen as a threat of potential abandonment. my ex tried to come between myself and my family and friends as well.

So although I want to send a note saying I care etc I am very reluctant to do so.

im with you. i wouldnt send a note explicitly saying you care. i mean subtly, be available. its important for him to know, in the back of his mind, that at the end of the day, he has people that love him and support him. dont "chase". invitations are fine.

I have heard over and over again that I have to be quiet, accept and support - so that’s what I’m doing.

you need support, too. this is really tough. i hope that you will lean on us here, because we do understand. additionally, are you seeking support in your personal life? friends and family, or a therapist or counselor?

[Hopeful15]

I’ve written previously about my DIL and my son but just wanted some advice going forward.  I’ve been doing a lot of reading on this forum and I feel like I am making progress in my understanding and compassion towards this disorder and how it affects everyone associated.
My issue is timing. I know that I want to attempt to have a relationship with them as I now know how I would communicate; topics that would be safe and topics that would not be safe. 
Things have been difficult since they have been together but they really came to a head just before their wedding last September.  I have discussed the incident in earlier posts and I see now where I went wrong ie; if I had known then what I know now, I wouldn’t have said what I said.
Since then, I have been told both by my son and DIL that I owe an apology for not supporting my DIL when she was reaching out to me (via texting). At the time, they were fighting and my son (and the police) were giving me different information than she was so I was supporting my son. But they both became angry with me for not supporting my DIL and since then, I have been painted black.
I have made several attempts to try and reconcile.
In an email exchange, about a month before their wedding,I told them I was sorry that I had an outburst of anger but they were going on a trip so I said some space would be a good thing but hoping we could get together and talk about it in the future. The response I got was that they were insulted that I said I wanted space and just saying that was similar to having the outburst at their house.  They said they hoped that I would have enough time and space to own my behaviours as they don’t want to have to deal with this again. (I am not sure who is doing the writing since they share an email address).
 I actually phoned my son about a week before the wedding. I had written a script for myself, knowing that I was treading on thin ice. The gist of my call was that I wanted to speak to him before the wedding as we would be spending time together at the wedding and I didn’t want it to be awkward. I told him that I had regrets that we had been fighting so much but was hoping for better things in the future. I told him that I took some responsibility for what happened but said I thought that under the circumstances, there were 4 of us arguing and that everyone had responsibility in the conflict. He told me that I owed an apology to his (soon to be) wife. The weird thing is, that during the argument, I wasn’t directing any of my frustration at her, I was directing it at my son because in all the 27 years that I had known him, I have never known him to behave the way he is behaving so I was expressing my confusion and frustration directly at him. In any case, it was all twisted around and now he was demanding an apology from him to his wife-to-be.  I was trying to defend/justify myself and saying invalidating things. He then told me that he doesn’t want to get together and talk about this with me because all I ever want is to fight.  Then he said he didn’t even want to stand beside me for wedding pictures.  Then after that, he hung up on me. I have never experienced this kind of behaviour with my son before as we have always been able to come to some kind of a compromise. But not anymore.
So after the call with my son, I phoned my DIL and told her I had been talking to my son and that he thought I should apologize. She wanted me to take full responsibility for the fight etc. I told her that I apologized if I hurt her as I don’t want to hurt her because I said my relationship with her was important.  She wanted me to promise that I would always support her in every situation. I told her I could not make that promise but that I would try very hard not to hurt her in the future. Her answer to me was that it was “that’s not good enough”.  The call ended
So at their wedding, since no-one was volunteering to say a speech at the wedding, my husband and I decided to go up and say a few words. I decided to concentrate my speech on their relationship, from their perspective.  I complimented the bride with some statements that I felt were true; she is an intelligent person, passionate and a beautiful bride. I said that we observed that my son is obviously very in love with his wife, she is his soul mate and the person he always dreamed of. I wished them well and praised them for following their hearts. When I looked over at my DIL during this speech, she had a look on her face that kind of took my breath away (anger? Disgust?). I immediately regretted volunteering to speak and my head kind of started spinning. After the speeches, there was a mother/son dance and during the dance my son thanked me for the speech; I think he really liked it. But he wanted to know why I didn’t come over and hug him afterwards……
My husband and I came to the venue the day after the wedding (we were the only ones that came – her family were nowhere in sight) and helped them clean. My son thanked us but she just went off by herself to clean.
Since then, we have gotten together about 3 times – 2 x at Christmas and once at my son’s birthday. Neither my son or DIL will talk to me directly. They will barely look at me. They talk to my daughter and to my husband and will talk in general to the group, but it is noticeable to me that they don’t want anything to do with me.
My T (not attending anymore) suggested that I wait and let my son come to me. He will come to me when he is ready, is what she said.
Is this the advice I should follow? They are coming over again on Easter Sunday. We are combining Easter and my husband and my daughter’s birthday on one occasion.  I have a feeling it’s going to be the same coldness. They usually just stay for the meal and leave right away afterwards.
We all notice that the suddenly seem to get uncomfortable and get up and leave.
I go back and forth in my mind. Should I just accept this situation or should I try to reach out to them more by, for example, asking my DIL if she wants to go out for lunch with me?

[Angie59]

Hello Hopeful15!

If I didn't know better, I would have thought I wrote your posts!  I too, have a son who I am very close to, but feel that his fiance is trying to pull us apart.  I have to say this is one of the most hurtful situations I have been in.  I also feel like I have lost my son. 

We (my son and I) still talk a lot on the phone and I feel are still close, but he will just not let us in when it comes to his fiance and her problem behavior.  He does not want anyone to talk about her and is very vague with his answers.

He also has a child with her, our precious grandson, who is almost 2.  She has a daughter from a different relationship who was only 5 months old when my son entered the picture.  She is now 4 years old and he loves her like she is his own.  My son is really the only stability those kids have.  I am also wondering, just like you, where is the son I knew?  What about the morals and values we taught him?  It is like he is losing himself, who he really is.  The person I once knew feels as if they are changing and leaving us behind. 

I know I'm not giving much advice, but I have received much empathy and understanding, as well as tips on this board.  Since I'm new here myself, I just wanted to let you know that I am on this same path as you, so we can hurt together.   

Angie59

[Harri]

Hi hopeful15.  I am so sorry for this situation.  I am sure it hurts terribly. 

My T (not attending anymore) suggested that I wait and let my son come to me. He will come to me when he is ready, is what she said.
Is this the advice I should follow? They are coming over again on Easter Sunday. We are combining Easter and my husband and my daughter’s birthday on one occasion.  I have a feeling it’s going to be the same coldness. They usually just stay for the meal and leave right away afterwards.
We all notice that the suddenly seem to get uncomfortable and get up and leave.
I go back and forth in my mind. Should I just accept this situation or should I try to reach out to them more by, for example, asking my DIL if she wants to go out for lunch with me?

I agree with your T.  Let things rest for a while.  See how Easter goes and take things slowly.  Try to be as relaxed and friendly as you can but without overdoing it.  Unfortunately there is not much you can do when in your position and the more you try, often the worse things get.  It probably will feel awkward, but you can deal with that.  You've gotten through it before right?  And this time around you have better knowledge and understanding of what is going on. 

I am not sure that having lunch with your DIL is a good idea, though I understand why you would want to try that.  You just don't want to be seen as pushing them/her to get together with you, but mostly I don't think it is a good idea to be alone with her.  It would be way to easy to spin and distort anything that is said.  Also, until things get less cool and more comfortable, having others around is good as they can fill silences and help relax the atmosphere.

See how easter goes.  In the meantime, if you want to brainstorm ideas on how to handle things and speak with them before the weekend, you can do that here.  Focus on keeping yourself relaxed and at ease for Sunday.  Really, all you can do is take care of yourself.  Have music playing in the background and definitely have a glass of wine handy (if you drink that is).   

[Hopeful15]

Thanks Angie59 – as sad as it is, it’s nice not to feel so alone. It is so difficult to explain to people. Sometimes I think they must think that we, as parents, must have done something to deserve this kind of treatment. But you and I know that is not the case. I’m happy for you that you still talk on the phone with your son – but I do understand by reading your posts, that he is not the same person anymore and he is defending the bizarre behaviour of his wife- and that is mind boggling, isn’t it?

Harri, I thank you for your comments. I am kind of relieved that I don’t have to do what I think I should do. But, in fact, my reasons for thinking I should do it is because of my values. Mothers should have relationships with their son’s wife….and because I am the “elder”, I should initiate it.  But this is not a normal situation and don’t know if it will ever be.

I really dread the thought of them coming over. I’m a hugger and I am trying to think of ways to avoid hugging them because it will not be genuine. I actually do really like wine but lately when I see them I only stick to one glass of wine because I don’t want to offend them by a) looking like a lush or b) saying something that I think is funny but they won’t. It truly is like walking on eggshells (yes, I did read that book and got a lot out of it).

When I saw them at Christmas, I was kind of subdued and friendly but I didn’t overdo it. So I am capable of doing that – it’s just so contrived… I like to have fun and laugh a lot but they kind of suck the joy out of the room. By reading on this site, I’ve learned a lot about validation and that is something I’m really going to work on. I noticed that the staff on this site do a lot of validation and I don’t care who you are, it just really feels good to get validated. Thanks again, all 

[Hopeful15]

last time I posted, I was kind of wondering/worrying about Easter because it would have been 3 months since I saw my son and his wife. So what actually happened was my husband had talked to my son and mentioned that we were having 3 celebrations on one day. He asked my son if he and his wife would be interested in coming on Sunday of the long weekend - Easter Sunday and my husband's actual birthday. My son had said yes they would be interested.

So on that day, in the morning, I emailed both my son and daughter telling them dinner was at 6:00 but they could come over a little earlier for appetizers.  About an hour later, my daughter called to say my son had texted her saying they weren't coming. He said the reason was because they thought the dinner was on Saturday night ( the night before) and they had made plans for Sunday night.  Right away we suspected this wasn't true because they had done this 3 or 4 times last year... .on the day of the event, they said they weren't coming... .and didn't.

But just in case what they said was true, I phoned my son ( he didn't answer because he never does when I call), and left a voicemail message saying I was sorry about the misunderstanding but that we could move the dinner to Monday night ( my husband , my daughter and myself all had Monday off) but he texted back saying they couldn't because they both work Monday.  He did offer an alternative, though.  We had all been invited to a wedding 2 weeks away and he was wondering if we wanted to go out for brunch and then go and visit my parents in the nursing home ( it was near where the wedding was taking place). So I wrote him back and said that sounded very nice.

So we went to the wedding without any communication in between. It was about 4 hours from the city where we live but we had no idea about their plans re: when they planned to go, where they were staying etc.  It's always a mystery.  We saw them walk up to the place where the ceremony was and they kind of just nod and acknowledge our presence but don't initiate any conversation or anything. Awkward! 
(as an aside, my DIL dresses very provocatively in public and its even kind of shocking. A very[/i short, dress, low cut with lots of cleavage and spiked shoes. I just don't understand why someone would do this who is married - but that's just me being judgmental. I just find it kind of disrespectful to my son. It's like she is dressing to impress other men or something)

In any case, we didn't talk to them after the ceremony and the only reason I talked to them at the reception is because I walked up to them. I just asked them how they were doing and a few other questions about getting to the wedding etc. They didn't approach me once at the wedding. The people getting married are very close friends. They are a loving, extremely close family and it was their son getting married and during the speeches you could see their closeness and love and it just made me really sad about the relationship we have with our son and DIL.  It just gives me such a feeling of hopelessness and lack of control in my life. I just have to keep telling myself that if the relationship with us was as important to my son as it is to us, he would do something about it. He is choosing the life he has and it hurts me to my core.

In any case, I had to leave the wedding early- we had a room in the same building so it was easy. I had extreme pain in my stomach. I think it must have been stress. I am usually really happy to be at weddings and love to dance but I couldn't do it this time.

The next day we met with my son and DIL for breakfast as planned. The conversation was light and pleasant. He gave a birthday gift/card to both my husband and my daughter so that made me happy. It gave me a good feeling that he cared enough to give them something. They were pretty quiet when we visited my parents but it was nice of them to do it.

Both my daughter and my husband are encouraged that things went well. My husband thinks that maybe our DIL just doesn't like coming to our house and maybe we should stop inviting them. That it's not neutral territory.  They seem to be better if we meet at a restaurant
 ( but we end up paying every time). He thinks that we have to be happy with the small wins.  I wish I could feel that way. And that's why I'm writing today. I can't understand why I just can't accept this situation. I am the only one in my family that was actually close to my son. He has been a non-communicative guy for a long time. But I made a point to talk to him heart to heart... .not all the time, I know as he was in early adulthood, he needed his space. But I wanted to make sure he had an opportunity to express his feelings. He seemed to feel very comfortable with me. 

I am also very realistic about children growing up, leaving their homes and forming their own families. I wouldn't want it any other way. It is the healthy thing to do.  I guess what I'm saying is I don't think our relationship was unhealthy in any way. We were just close as a son and mother and I celebrated his independence.  I am not asking to still be his confidante... .but I feel like I get nothing now. I feel like I am disliked by both of them. 

With every thing I've read on this site about issues with uDILBPD with children, I am quite certain that if they do have children, we will not have very much to do with them. I am not going to mourn about something that hasn't happened yet but I feel like I have to be realistic.

I am trying to take care of myself and find other interests in my life but my family has always been the most important thing to me. I was thinking about going back to see a therapist but I am reluctant because the last one I saw didn't seem to have any understanding about BPD and I felt like we were speaking different languages. That's why I decided to post today. I just need someone who can understand how hurtful this is and have come through it on the other side,so to speak

[Mommy su]

Wow! I am in the same boat as you... .except the son is my step-son... .while I do really care about him, it is my husband whose heart is breaking! That kills me because our children, his and mine are very important to us... His son was 16 when we married and I have just been a bystander for the most part in his life. I simply followed his lead. Now he is married to this crazy uBPD person who is trying to tear our family apart at the seams. I , along with my son's wife ( my birth son's wife, not the step son's wife) are the focus of extreme hatred from the uPBD DIL!
I am trying to learn all the techniques of comunication... .(
which is alot of study and work)
I am so irritated because I really don't care sbout this mean bully DIL that I have only known a few years!
I guess if she were married to my son I would feel differently!

[Hopeful15]

I need some advice because I am having a hard time figuring out what to do. I have been feeling quite good for the last month. The reason is because there are no family events coming up for the foreseeable future so I feel no pressure to try and contact my son and uBPD DIL.  The last time we saw them was at a close family friend’s wedding and met them for brunch the next day. What I realized on that day is that I really don’t like the person my son has become. He is self-absorbed,negative and totally uninterested in any of the people who have been so good to him all of his life.  It struck me that if he has chosen to be this type of person, I am not going to waste my time fretting over him. I am going to wait until he grows up a bit and if he does, and begins to act like a reasonable adult, I will be happy to spend time with him. He didn’t bother doing anything for my birthday last year (except a text) - and then complained to my husband that I didn’t respond the way I should have ( I just said thank-you but he and DIL didn’t think that was good enough). Last year my husband arranged a brunch for Mother’s Day but I told him not to this year. I will be happy to spend some time with my daughter because I know she cares and is a genuine person- but it doesn’t have to be on Mother’s Day - I feel our relationship is special all year round. 
So when my son texted me tonight saying “Happy Early Mother’s Day” and said they wanted to go out for brunch next Sunday ( because this Sunday my daughter is out of town), I just want to tell him no! And I feel bad about that. I have a good reason... .next weekend is a long weekend and every year we go to our cottage to open it up for the season (and he used to help us before DIL came along).
When I told my husband I was going to say no, he told me to think about it for a while. But my heart is telling me I just can’t face it. Is this the wrong thing to do?

[Panda39]

Hi Hopeful15,

I see you in the awful place of having to choose between something you want to do (not put yourself through the stress of time with your son/dil) and what you think you should do (try and work on the relationship with them).  Between the rock and the hard place is a hard place to be.  It seems that people with BPD are expert at putting us there.  

For me personally when I get in that kind of squeeze, I do what I want because if I choose what I "should" do I often resent it and have a miserable time.

One possibility... .If you decline you can expect to be badmouthed about it, but it also seems likely that if you go you will be at risk of being badmouthed about something you've said or done during the brunch.

Another possibility... .A compromise coffee and desert instead of brunch, in and out faster, you can still be badmouthed for not doing brunch, you still risk being hurt, and have to deal with the awkward time together.

Another possibility... .Focus on you and your values, it seems that you value family and spending time with family, so you take the high road and demonstrate you value family.  Will they still have something negative to say? Probably, but so what you demonstrated who you are and what you value.

Another possibility... .It's Mother's Day and it's about you, tell them you want to just relax and spend the day crafting, gardening, baking... .whatever you like to do.
This will most likely be perceived as a rejection, but so what it's Mother's Day it's your day enjoy it !

I guess my question is will anything you say or do make them happy?  Is making them happy even your responsibility? Can you even control their happiness?  Who's happiness do you control?

As I'm writing all of this (you are getting the whole Panda stream of consciousness here, bear with me   ) I am reminded of Racial Acceptance.  More on that below... .

Radical acceptance

Radical acceptance was developed by Marsha Linehan, PhD.  from the University of Washington (see article) and is based on the ancient Zen philosophy that each moment is complete by itself, and that the world is perfect as it is. Zen focuses on acceptance, validation, and tolerance instead of change.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

If you see them can you get to a place where you can accept that they are going to do what they are going to do and are going to feel what they are going to feel, and are going to behave like they are going to behave? Can you get to the place where you see that much of what is going on is their issues, dysfunction, and bad behavior and that it has nothing to do with you?

Can you be mindful not emotional when interacting with them.  I've done this with my mom, I can only describe it as being in the interaction but also watching it from the outside.  It helps to see what is going on... .like when you're people watching someone else's interaction.  I think this helps to take things less personally.

Okay so I rambled a lot here!  I'll stop where I am.  I hope I've given you some help here or things to consider at least.  Mother's Day can be such a loaded holiday    

Take Care,
Panda39

[Hopeful15]

Hi Panda39,

I want to thank you for answering my post. I had to laugh when I read it because it feels so familiar - stream of consciousness going through all the options every few hours  .  The way you ended your post is what I really needed to hear. On some level, I know that I have to embody the Radical Acceptance of this situation. But when something happens that I wasn't expecting ( totally did not expect my son to write me an email and ask me out for brunch), my emotions kick in and all good intentions fly out the window.
I want to accept this situation a) because choosing Radical Acceptance is the only choice that will likely keep me healthy and b) I want to be that person.

So I read and re-read the radical acceptance concept (again). What I did is invite them out to our cottage for the afternoon with my other daughter and her partner and they accepted. So if they do come, I will live in that moment, take it for what it is and take each time we get togehter for what it is.

I am so happy I found this forum and that there are people like you who care enough to give my your thoughts. Thanks again.

[Panda39]

So I read and re-read the radical acceptance concept (again). What I did is invite them out to our cottage for the afternoon with my other daughter and her partner and they accepted. So if they do come, I will live in that moment, take it for what it is and take each time we get togehter for what it is.

Sounds like a great plan 

I am so happy I found this forum and that there are people like you who care enough to give my your thoughts. Thanks again.

I think you might have gotten a few too many thoughts  I think I need an Editor 

Panda39

[Snoopy737]

Hello Hopeful

I'm new to this forum, and I haven't got all the tools to help you, but I'm really glad seeing Panda has the tools for you. I've just got super tools from Panda, too. Really useful, and I really appreciate it.

But non the less, I wanted to write you a little message, because I can really feel your pain and relate to your hard situation. I thought you maybe could use just a few words and thoughts from a man, who also has a really good relationship with his mother. And I do.

I'm in my late 40s, and I'm lucky, I still have my mother, she is 79. I also have a uBPD sister, and she has a bit different behavior than you DIL, but I've just had a friend (woman - and only a friend) for 1½ years who was first diagnosed bipolar, and when I got to know her, the psychiatric ward changed that diagnosis to BPD.

I actually knew this woman before she got a boyfriend, so I was her friend when they began dating, so I've heard all the weird stuff in their relationship from her. And I thought it maybe could help you a tiny bit, so I'll give it a go.



This woman was first of all super good looking, and even though that isn't my priority in a relationship and it sounds/is superficial, I think most men will have a hard time resisting the charm from beautiful women. She hard a smile to die for, and she was funny, and we laughed and shared stories almost the whole night at the place where we met by chance. I really felt that we had so much in common, and it's pretty rare that you meet someone, where you have the same interests, hear the same music and have the same values.

Next day she seemed a bit needy,  texted me with maybe 10 texts at 7 am, calling 7.30am asking me out for at trip to town. I actually declined politely, because I felt she was moving too fast; maybe she was on a top in her bipolar cycle. I didn't know.

It took 5 months before we texted each other again. She seemed happy and on facebook I could see that she now was in a relationship with a guy.
We spoke over the phone, and we met a few times for coffee or a walk, and she seemed happy and in love. And then we had contact almost every day from that day, texts and/or phone.

But the next year that woman slowly showed me sides of herself, I couldn't even imagine one woman could have alone, because her negative traits were so scary and so many. Really soon I got to know that her relationship with that man didn't go as well as it looked on facebook. And when I walked with her one day, she told be that their relationship was violent. And it wasn't him hitting her, but the other way around. I thought 'Not so nice' :/ (and I'm totally against violence, I have never been in a fight or anything), but now where I don't have contact with her anymore, I actually think it's weird that I just accepted the she hit her boyfriend. And he didn't hit back (he was a really great guy). Maybe it was my knowledge that every person has problems. I have my anxiety, she had the bad tempers and the violent attitude against him, when she got triggered. And she was triggered quite often, almost every day. But I also knew she worked on the hitting and the moods at a psychologist. So I guess I respected her for working with the violence, because she too was very upset about the hitting and hated herself for it - she "just" couldn't control her temper.

Each week she revealed another secret to me. And I found out that all her activities she showed people on Facebook, didn't really work for her. She always got mad at people and thought of quitting her activities every week, and then she called me crying about it, and I always comforted her. Time after time, week after week. We still had some good times, though, texting funny stuff to each other every day. It may sound simple or superficial, but I lived alone and it covered a lot of my need for having contact with people, and I think everyone want witnesses of our lives?

One day her boyfriend tried to break up with her, and she was so overwhelmed and out of control, that I had to get her hospitalized at a psychiatric ward. I used so much energy on this, but again I thought it was maybe once in a lifetime, you help a friend to be hospitalized at a psychiatric ward, so I also felt a bit proud of myself, that I really had accomplished that, even though I struggle with anxiety attacks. But I guess my drive to help a friends was stronger than the anxiety.

Well when I left her, I thought she was in good hands. And she were, because I saw the place and talked to the doctors and nurses, and they were really calm nice to her.

But then the story changes. And you've waited a long time for it, I know   The woman checked herself out of the psychiatric ward after a day and managed to talk her boyfriend into moving together again! I really had hoped he wouldn't do that, because we don't have many beds in our psychiatric wards due to cuttings in the budgets. So this was a really, really god opportunity for her. So I was also quite angry at her. Why couldn't she stay a month like everyone else at that ward?

But no. I don't know exactly how she talked him into getting together again. She slept in his apartment, and as soon as she could, she sold her own apartment. This was only about 2 weeks after her total break down.

Now I could see something was totally not right. And it got worse. Within 1½ month she also talked this guy into buying a house together - and he followed up. I was shocked! Suddenly it got so clear that she wanted to do everything to keep this guy, that she did everything to hold him. And a house isn't something you just sell after one of her fits.

It was so clear that she manipulated him over and over. She had to text him every hour or more, all day before they could be together at the afternoon and evening. She couldn't be alone, and she had hard times with this guy because she was soo jealous, even when a woman he didn't even know talked to him. She could get furious and put restrictions on his facebook, made him stop commenting and be friends with other girls, she thought would take him. And the worst part was when they were invited to his parents. Really quiet and calm parents. So almost always hat hissy fits before, because she was so afraid that she would freak out at his parents, so that they would think she was really bad for him, and maybe wanted him to brake up and find a nice woman without a diagnosis.

This haunted her every single day and it got worse and worse. It also was quite a challenge for me, because I had my own anxiety to work with, so I couldn't take her desperate calls every day, sometimes more than one on the same day.

Once when she was hospitalized I talked to her boyfriend over the phone, and was such a quiet and sweet guy (Like your son, I guess), and he he even cried in the phone, and show me a man that cries in the phone first conversation with a stranger. He was really under press. But year, very soon she talked him into that house. But the problems got worse. Of course it didn't solve anything for her about the house, it was just harder for him to brake up and sell, when she had a fit.

I followed her some months after that, and I faster and faster lost my sympathy for her, but gained big respect for him. We she told about their daily fights, I could only relate to him, and the day I told her I had to solve my own problems first, she deleted me on all social media. I guess it was pretty hard having calls weekly from a woman that is suicidal, but I have to say that I broke the contact because I felt more and more sorry for that guy and what he stood up with. (I think she didn't target her fits at me, because she knew that I had zero tolerance for verbal or physical abuse.

Here a couple of months after, I'm actually really relieved, that I don't see her anymore. I began avoiding subjects that could trigger her, and I wasn't honest anymore, when she called and said how her boyfriend was to her, because I felt sorry for him.

I don't know if I can say something clever to top this story off. Even when a woman is as disturb as the one I knew (and your DIL), I can see how a man can fall for charm in the first place, and many BPD are very good at that. And when her boyfriend got to see her true self revealed with a tiny, tiny bit every week, he could fail to see what actually happened with her and the relationship. And because he was a good guy (like your son), he had a tremendous hard time just thinking of braking up with her, because she got totally mad and could actually do anything. That's why he also was afraid of her. And he admitted it.

As a son who loves his mother very, very, very much (me), I will say to you: Don't worry about your sons behavior in the long run (but I really understand why you are both sad angry at him/them at the moment). He will see her games one day, and I actually thought it was a super good idea not inviting them for Mothers Day. If everybody pleases them, they can say to each other "Yeah, everything is all right, so we keep going on in that direction." So I think it pretty important setting boundaries showing your son that you aren't so crazy about your DIL. Holding a distance and beeing honest about it, could maybe be a way?

When a boy who loves his mother and vice versa, he will see his uBPD girlfriends  games, and if you also keep a distance to him (or they do to you), I think he'll miss his mother. Maybe even more, if you do something fun with your daughter and her boyfriend. Why shouldn't he see what he is missing out, while he's only with her?

The last thing I would do, was pleasing them/her. Then she'll know she can manipulate you and keep on going. It's maybe a hard thing to say, but it's lucky that it's your DIL that is BPD and not your son. Because the day he understand what games she has played, he can get a divorce and will be pretty OK afterwards - with help from you and your husband.

Take care! Both you and your husband and daughter.

All best Snoopy

[Snoopy737]

Hi Hope

I wrote my answer late at night and got at little tired, so I forgot to write one of my points.

It was: When the woman I knew had to visit her parents-in-law, she was super stressed because she thought that if she showed any of her not so pretty BPD sides, her mother-in-law and father-in-law wouldn't like her, and all the time she was sure, that they would tell their son to look for another woman without BPD-problems. Because their son could actually do that quite easy, while she would end up with all her own problems and even alone, the outcome she feared the most.

So all that churned in her mind, so she was almost exploding with feelings, rage and tears before the drove down to his parents. And sometimes she could only be there for half an hour, not even through dinner, because she was about exploding with feelings and had to say she had an upcoming migraine and had to go home and rest. And the she went home to bed and called me and said that she now had f****** everything up, and that her parents-in-law hated her, and they know would sit at the dinner table and discus how he should find himself a better woman/girlfriend.

I only write this because you wrote a lot about how your son and DIL didn't come by often anymore and often cancelled in the last moment.

And it sounded like you thought it was because she all the time tried or planned to keep your son away from his parents, and I really understand why you think that way, and I would properly too.

If you - by magic - could see your son and your DIL before they visit you, maybe you would see your DIL so frightened of you and your husband, making the wrong impression, that she unconsciously would cause all kinds of drama in the hours and minutes before visiting you.

And it's a vicious circle for a person with BPD or a person with great anxiety.  Like an oral exam you really fear, and then you get even more nervous.

I just say that this woman I knew was like that, and she could have big fights with his boyfriend before they drove to his parents, and sometimes she would get so mad, that she demanded to let her off right in the middle of the high way. It was that bad. She was in an irreversible mood and would explode and be out of control for hours, and the last place she wanted to be was at her parents-in-law because she felt that they would only wanna lose her as quick as possible.

I know it doesn't change much for you, because you still won't see your son much, when the DIL act this way. And I know you won't like her more because of this. But I just wanted to mention that she maybe hasn't got as tight a grip in your son as you might think. Maybe the few visits and the cancelling in the last moment is because your DIL also cause a gigantic drama before each visit, because she is so scared of you, and especially if she fells you know how she really is behind her facade. And maybe, just maybe, your son struggles with her every time he want to visit you, and she finally win the discussion with screaming and acting out. That was how it was for my BPD friend.

Since you can't see them when they cancel in the last moment. It could be that she doesn't sit in the couch smiling sarcastically thinking 'Yeah, again I got it like I want! He is too easy to fool. Now we haven't to go to those dull parents-in-law.' Maybe she's actually walking in the emergency lane on the highway screaming and out of control, and your son is driving back home not knowing what to do, because she also forces him to not say anything about it.

It could be like that, because that was how it was like with my BPD ex-friend. And then you're actually better off than you might think.

Just a thought.

Good luck and all best, Snoopy

[Notwendy]

Snoopy - that is great insight and also explains some of the dynamics between my BPD mother and father. My mother in her younger years was very beautiful and even though she is elderly she has always been attractive. Even as a young girl I recall seeing men flirt with her and people always told me how pretty she was. I can see how my father fell for her however, there had to be more for him to have stayed with her through some of her behaviors. She also comes across as needy and helpless, and he was a rescuer. A rescuer needs a woman like that. Not all men find this appealing.

I think it is interesting that you were able to experience some insight into your friend's fear of discovery. I believe this is very real and I have seen this play out many times with my mother. Preserving the illusion that "mother is normal- even wonderful" was the main family rule. We grew up knowing we could not say a word about the behavior we observed in our own home or to others or risk being punished. Pretending they didn't happen was enforced. This even extended to my mothers FOO who constantly tell me how wonderful she is.

In my mother's world you are either "on her side" or not, and if not, then you are not allowed to be in her world. Being on her side means not being aware ( or pretending you are not by not ever bringing it up and maintaining to the world that she is wonderful)  of her BPD behaviors and maintaining the illusion of her better self ( the self that is truly wonderful when she is not disregulated).  I have seen this occur with relatives, friends, and even home health care helpers now that she is elderly and has assistance. When my father was ill, home health care workers were painted black and then were dismissed. I think it is because they caught on to her situation.

Who did my mother avoid contact with ( and also then keep my father away from)? The first was his family. They were on to her from the time they met her. She has been hostile to them ever since.

To be "on to" my mother puts the people who wish to be with her in a bind. Either they accept her world or a world where her disorder is recognized.  I think Snoopy explained how this feels from the standpoint of someone with BPD well- her extreme fear of abandonment and rejection.

[joanlee]

Omg this exactly what I am going through right now. My son who I’ve always been close to,  didn’t even text me or call me for Mother’s Day. The only thing I can figure out to do in all this is just to try to let time take it’s course but it’s absolutely killing me. I have two adorable grandkids that I can’t even see. They live a half hour away. I feel like my son has been hijacked and it breaks my heart.  I wish there was something more I could do but he is angry with me and I don’t even know why, and his wife can’t stand me, even though it seemed to me like she liked me. I am not a Midler and I tried to leave them alone but it doesn’t seem to matter. I feel like I’ve completely lost him

[Snoopy737]

Hi notwendy, I'm glad if you also could use some of my words.

In a way I'm also glad this BPD-friend was so honest to me, because I also have an uBPD-sister, and she doesn't really reveal any of her thoughts. We just get to hear when she has analyzed her thoughts and has come up with a result that says, someone - often in the family - must have acted or said something 'soo wrong' (she uses that expression), that made her feel that miserable. So we only see her furious side. So it has also helped me to hear my BPD-friends honest thoughts to understand sister better. But I have to be honest. Even though I might understand sister better, our relationship always ends in No Contact anyway.

All best Snoopy

[Snoopy737]

Hi Joanlee

Wow, that sounds really hard, especially with the grand kids. I'm sorry to hear that.

I can only tell that my uBPD sis found a husband maybe even more abnormal than herself. And he hit her and told her lies all the time. And my parents were absolutely heartbroken. So was I, but in another way, since I was in my teens and more focused on my own future.

My parents feared that they would never get a normal relationship with their daughter again, and that made their pain even worse. Sister actually became so tired of this marriage, that she fled from this guy and my parents helped her. But it took seven years before sister saw the twisted world this husband created. A really long time.

I think when people live in this black or white world, where their family and friends are stigmatized as either angels or devils, no grey scale in between, then the breakup will happen suddenly and maybe without a warning for us standing outside to see. That was how it was for my sister. She knew she couldn't get back to this husband that day she told her normal friends and her family what he did to her, so she had to be absolutely sure before she took the big step, and it took even longer because she is pretty insecure. (Better stick to what you have, because you don't know what you'll get.)

Retrospectively, I can only say that the best thing we could do - as the family watching sisters dramatic change - was sticking together, setting boundaries for my sister and her husband, and talk with family and friends about how hard this situation is. Everyone I spoke to, was shocked about my sisters behavior, and I couldn't believe they thought my sister was a bit crazy (Because I was so glad they could - I feared they would defend my sister), and that helped me a lot. Then I knew the reality as I knew it was pretty OK, and it was her reality that was a bit twisted.

We didn't set that many boundaries for my sister. Mom and dad were really afraid they would lose her completely, but retrospectively I can see, that we and they could have set a lot more boundaries for her. Vi tolerated almost everything from sis and her husband, because we thought we had to, to 'get her back' one day.

Today I think my sister would have seen the twisted reality in her and her husbands home years before, if my parents had been harder on her and not tolerated everything. They should also have cancelled dinners in sisters home, when they actually hated every minute every second in that home, where sister and her husband was black and white about everything - and they loved to discuss it - to the death.

Best luck to you, Snoopy

[Notwendy]

Snoopy- it is interesting that you got an inside view of BPD from your friend. The disorder is interesting as it affects the most intimate of relationships. I think their fear is highest with the relationships they are emotionally invested in the most. Friendship is an investment but not the same as an intimate relationship. Your friend was able to be more "herself" with you- the good and the disordered. I hope this understanding has helped you with your family. Families exist in a system and having a disordered person in the family changes the dynamics. However ,as adults we can work on ourselves and learn more emotionally healthy behaviors and the work is worth it 

[Hopeful15]

Hello Snoopy,

I read your post to me a couple of days ago and started to write you back but got so busy I couldn't finish it.
I am hoping I will finish this one just to let you know I appreciate what you wrote to me about your intimate knowledge
of someone with uBPD.  It has really given me a lot to think about.

My uBPD DIL is a very striking woman. She has a very nice body - very slim and toned. She has a beautiful smile and dark
brown eyes. I can see why my son was interested in her as well. My son has had girlfriends since he was in high school and
they were usually long term relationships - he had trouble letting people go even when the relationship was long over. He
was really looking for someone he could have a deep connection with and I think, he thought, he found it in this woman.

I have been stuck with the thought that my uBPD DIL is actually conniving and scheming to keep our son away from us
but haven't really considered that it is more her fear and insecurity of our opinion/judgement of her that is keeping them
both at a distance. And the more I think about it, her behaviour is in line with someone who is scared , not defiant.

That doesn't make it right, but having a different perspective helps me to process it a little easier. For one thing, it would
explain my son's behaviour in that he is kind of protecting her.  He has described it in the past as "respecting" her by making
all of these changes in his life, for her. I kept picturing her telling him how evil we were and how we did such a bad job of
raising him and he is agreeing with her and as such they don't want much to do with us. (It is a complicating factor that she
is educated as a Psychologist - I'm guessing my son thinks she is correct in her evaluations of people.)

But when you talked about your uBPD friend's  extreme reaction when it came time to visit her boyfriend's parents, I could very
well imagine this a possibility with my son and uBPD DIL. Especially since she has been unable to keep a job for very long. She has
had 2 jobs since they've been together but has quit both of them because she can't get along with her co-workers/supervisors. Her goal is to have her own private practice. But my son has been able to maintain jobs long term and so have the rest of us in this family so she is probably embarrassed of her inability to do so.

If you've read my earlier posts, you will see that she is big at projecting. She claimed he was emotionally abusive to her and had him attend group meetings with abusive husbands, she said he was an alcoholic and made him attend AA meetings, but when my daughter went over there last year to help them with their wedding invitations, my son answered the door with a black eye.  She asked him how it happened and he said "uBPD DIL has 'clocked' him in the eye because he was being an a****le." My uBPD DIL was standing right there and nodded in agreement... .as if to say - "that is true, he was being an a****le"  How can someone justify the physical violence but be so intolerant of someone else's behaviour?

Anyway, it feels good to talk about this and even better when someone takes the time to share thoughts. This just isn't something you can talk about with work colleagues and friends. It's too much and I always wonder if people think I am thinking about it too much. But it is quite therapeutic telling my story on here - so thanks for listening.

All the best

[SBA2014]

I feel your pain. We have a similar situation, except in our case, our son is displaying BPD traits and his wife is completely nuts. They produced 2 lovely grandchildren (4 &1) that we have not seen for 8 months.
My advice to you is move on with your life! We all have our dreams when our kids are young, and we think it is a given that we’ll be in their lives when they grow up. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out that way. The sooner you realize that, and decide to take control of your own life, the better off you will be.

[Broken1969]

Wow! You must feel crazed being so out of control in this situation. I'm kinda new here myself so for now I'm just sending you hugggs! Just know you're not alone.