Conflicts over financial support: Feeling hurt

[Radcliff]

braveSun, this all sounds hard to deal with, but I have to say I'm impressed.  You have done a great job of identifying your emotions, talking about recognizing things in the moment (being mindful) and not being reactive, identifying what you own and what she owns.  This all comes across as tiring relationship work that needs to be done, but not a muddled, overwhelming mess.  The fact that you're able to break things apart like this is huge!    With this approach do you feel like there's a little bit less wear and tear on you?

Do you still have an outstanding issue of getting money for June bills?

WW

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[braveSun]

braveSun, this all sounds hard to deal with, but I have to say I'm impressed.  You have done a great job of identifying your emotions, talking about recognizing things in the moment (being mindful) and not being reactive, identifying what you own and what she owns.  This all comes across as tiring relationship work that needs to be done, but not a muddled, overwhelming mess.  The fact that you're able to break things apart like this is huge!    With this approach do you feel like there's a little bit less wear and tear on you?

Do you still have an outstanding issue of getting money for June bills?

WW

WW, you certainly are bringing an encouraging light into it. I had not seen it like this. I am grateful for your insights.

I can break things apart once I am back alone in the comfort of my own space. I must admit living separately has it's advantages. It's the freeze or fawn responses I have which are taking me to the pond on the spot. I feel like I'm being triggered, and I'm getting into muddy waters.

You're helping me see that these types of interactions are to be expected. I need to have my own planned responses when that happens because I'm not good at it yet, or not confident enough.  That would take the bite out of the story a bit. I know to slow down and delay my response when that happens, but I don't feel solid, thus the muddiness.

I am learning about the 4 F responses right now. I think getting more familiar with that type of work will help me feel stronger.

June bills are still not taken care of, no. Tomorrow Monday, so we will have to talk about this.

I think I'll try to apply SET. I'm working on it.

[Radcliff]

Did you have a discussion about bills on Monday?  If so, how did it go?

I definitely found that it was hard to apply skills in the middle of the fray.  Practicing over time helped, and having rehearsed responses to buy me time also helped.  Getting good enough at validation that it became second nature also helped.  With practice, I felt less "put on the spot," though there will always be times when things get past our ability to handle them.  The trick is not to give in to black and white thinking and believe that if we aren't as good with the skills as we'd hoped that we are bad or our efforts are wasted.  As we get better at the skills, things will improve over time, two steps forward, one step back.  And we have to always remember that no matter how heroic and brilliant we are, we can only improve half the relationship.

WW

[braveSun]

Did you have a discussion about bills on Monday?  If so, how did it go?

I definitely found that it was hard to apply skills in the middle of the fray.  Practicing over time helped, and having rehearsed responses to buy me time also helped.  Getting good enough at validation that it became second nature also helped.  With practice, I felt less "put on the spot," though there will always be times when things get past our ability to handle them.  The trick is not to give in to black and white thinking and believe that if we aren't as good with the skills as we'd hoped that we are bad or our efforts are wasted.  As we get better at the skills, things will improve over time, two steps forward, one step back.  And we have to always remember that no matter how heroic and brilliant we are, we can only improve half the relationship.

WW

WW I love your pragmatic presence!...   Yes, we talked on Monday, but we talked about a project I am working on with her. I helped her further with it, and didn't. say. a. word. about the elephant between us.

I don't know quite if it was a way for me to practice validation because in my mind I was purposefully not saying anything. I wanted my spouse to just feel the next step in what there was to do for her as a team. I believe that if I was expecting a talk about something I was supposed to do, but my partner would have simply done housekeeping talk as usual, I would have felt more like just being part of the team. Like to not put her on the spot either,  if that makes sense.

It's not necessarily a part of the skills, or maybe it is. More like a philosophy. Do not do to others what you would not like others to do unto you. It used to be a second nature for me before.

So she did deposit money in my account and I paid the bills right away. Thanked her today. Talked about a few other things, stuff as usual.

I am grateful here for the humble tone of your input. Two steps forward, one step backward, yes and yes.

Exactly how I feel I did tonite. Because after all I was pleased that she did without me bringing it up. So I felt a wind of confidence that I could talk to her about something else that she should consider as well. NOT!... It turned out to be one step too far. A little too much expectation. That wind of confidence was because my 'non's mind state' was being validated by her simple follow up, without any further blow up.

Hmmm! She blew up about the something else . In her mind she was teaching me a lesson by blowing up. In my mind I was teaching myself another lesson by accepting her limitation.

My own lesson here is, one battle at a time...

Tomorrow is another day.   

Thank you WW for your consistency and your presence. 
Much appreciated.

[Radcliff]

That's wonderful that she paid the bill money without direct pressure from you!  How nice!  And totally understandable that with the resulting sense of optimism you went one step "too far."  Looking at it as learning her limitations seems like a healthy way to look at it.  That optimism induced going for too much gain is absolutely something that I've done before!  My humility comes from making so many mistakes!  I have made an impressive number of them!

WW

[braveSun]

Wow!... Things went well for last month, but she went radio silence since than. It's been about a month now. It was our anniversary, and I spent it doing something for myself on my own. I sent a card and didn't get a response.

Now again making an attempt to connect.

Not sure on how to approach this because she knows I still need her support and she didn't deposit money in my account. I feel conflicted because I know she doesn't like me asking her for money. And in addition now, there has not been any sweet time between us in a while, so I fear it's going to be difficult.

I fear she will think that I only contacted her for money when in fact I tried to respect her wishes when she didn't answer me.

My spouse tend to see things that way. She's very afraid that I am using her for her money.

Back to square one (zero?... ) this time.

[Radcliff]

I am sorry you are having to deal with this again.

Sometimes we bend over backwards trying to figure out our pwBPD when it's better to just play it straight.  Bills are paid at the same time every month.  If she is going to support you, the money should be deposited at the same time every month. 

This shouldn't have to be an issue.  Can you get her to set up an autodeposit? 

You could think of this as a boundary.  You ask that the money be deposited by a certain day.  If it is not there by x days later, you e-mail her.  y more days and you call her.  Z more days and you travel there to visit.

Silly question -- are your bad feelings about having to take money inhibiting your attempts to collect it?  Can you become confident that it's OK to take the money?  You are her wife, and have moved to her country.

I'm a little unclear on how much contact you've had with her in the last 30 days.  Are you communicating?  Seeing each other?

WW

[braveSun]

   Silly question -- are your bad feelings about having to take money inhibiting your attempts to collect it?  Can you become confident that it's OK to take the money?  You are her wife, and have moved to her country.

I'm a little unclear on how much contact you've had with her in the last 30 days.  Are you communicating?  Seeing each other?

   She has gone ST since June 24th, a little over a month ago. Not answering my calls, no emails back. I am preparing an email to send her tomorrow with the amount I need, the breakdown of what it's for, and the next 2 due dates (Aug 1st and 3rd).

About my feelings, I feel frozen about it, but I'll send the email anyway and leave a voice mail that I have sent her an email about the help I need from her now. She did deposit money only when she did, and only twice without me having to request it. Most months I have to ask her. Most months I feel sh*!y for asking her. She changes her mind, she says she's disappointed in me, I should have a job by now, the marriage was a mistake, her reality of the moment feels like I am indeed taking advantage of her. It's her feelings. It's hard to deny her having them. She berates. By now I'm used to be badly judged for it. But this time the ST takes it to another level.

I realize this does bring my anxiety way up, and I am left with my not so good memories of most of last times. I have to watch to not fall into catastrophic thinking. 
 
Now I'm preparing to apply for a survival job. But this doesn't feel good. I'm not at ease looking for a new roommate and lock us into a year more of this. Because I'm not sure I'll find work that'll sustain me good enough without needing her further help for anything beyond basic survival.  Even if moving out of the apartment I'm in, I'll need to pay very much the same amount than I do somewhere else.

I don't want to abandon ship with my plans. Yet I can't see the autodeposit working with her. She agreed to supporting me, but when it's time she's not fully behind it. It affect my feelings of legitimity in the marriage.

I cannot stay in a marriage she says she doesn't want. But until this ST period started, we were having nicer times together, not just me contacting her for money.

This seems to be a change.

[Radcliff]

braveSun, I'm sorry, that's a tough situation

Does the survival job you are contemplating leave you some free time to look for a job in line with your expertise?

Perhaps other members will join us with ideas on the silent treatment and withholding of funds.  What are your thoughts on going to visit her?  That's offered in the brainstorming spirit, rather than advice.  Nothing brilliant is coming to my mind at this point, I'm sorry to say.

WW

[braveSun]

I don't have much brilliance in me either... I sent a concise email. Matter of fact.

'Tried to contact you several times, no answer. Now the first is here. NO roommate yet. Here's the amount needed, the breakdown, the next due dates. Thank you. Love. Brave'

I feel terrible right now, as she might be reading this.

About the survival job, I might just go for as many hours as I can in the beginning. Just until I have secured a new long term roommate.

I don't have a car and she lives in a small town. No public transportation goes there. I could take a bus to the nearest bigger town, and from there try to arrange for an Uber. My funds are very low now. Will probably do that once I get a breakthrough.

I have to hope for the best now...

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry you're in such a tough spot now.  When one has a car, it's easy to take it for granted.  It sounds like the survival job gives you some flexibility to dial back the hours once things are stable, which is good.  Hang in there, and keep us posted. We are rooting for you!

WW

[braveSun]

Thank you WW. It feels good to know someone is with me.
 

Brave