Rages kept to herself while NC? Silent treatment or not, what gives?..

[braveSun]

After a few recent attempts to connect or do things together, my spouse and I both sort of went no contact for about a week. A few events in her life have brought a bit more stress for her lately, and while I thought she was coping pretty well, it seemed in turn to result in her becoming more and more intolerant of me. 

I felt the need to stay away from her a while to let things cool down. I had my own work to worry about, and went more or less happily busy at it. But after 5 days I noticed we had not talked. So I called, leaving a loving message, asking for her to get in touch.  In the message I expressed moderate concern that it had been a long time and wanted to make sure she was OK.  She can have health emergencies at times, and I had learned that a friend of hers who lives at her house part time might not to be as available as usual.

She didn’t call back. Just sent an ambiguous email with 3 words ‘more about you’, and sort of generic pictures of her cats and plants. 

I answered the email that I was going to make some pictures too and send her. But later on I didn’t feel good enough about the email response.  I called her back again.  Asked her specifically  this time to let me know if she was OK, if she had someone with her, I didn’t need to chat if she didn’t want to talk. I also said that for her to not answer me was affecting my anxiety, I only needed a response from her.  No answer again.

Back story.  A month ago I had been in a similar situation with her not responding to my calls for a few days.  I was not feeling good about it and ended up calling one of the tenants who lives on the property to go check if she was OK.  The tenant found her seriously sick on the floor, she had fallen and could not get to the phone. He ended up calling the paramedics, the medical emergency being serious enough to require professional help. It turns out she had been a little short of two hours on the floor before he got to her. Once I got to her house she told me that I had saved her life. 

So this time around I again felt discomfort with letting silence go on for too long.  The email helped in part, but I felt really thrown off by the lack of sensitivity to my concerns. Something is clearly wrong, and she won’t connect with me. This has triggered my anxiety to an all time high.

It’s when I wanted to reconnect that things started to get weird. I finally texted one of the tenants, asked her to check. Tenant’s response was that my spouse was OK, she was having visit from her son and grandson. Life as usual.

What bothers me: I know that her condition is exacerbated when she has stressors in her life.  I also know that she can project pretty negative stuff about me at myself or others when she dysregulates. Last visit ended up abruptly, precipitated by her dysregulating, than things seemed to stabilize once we got back apart.  I thought we were OK but the incommunicado goes too far now.

I have undergone a great deal of fear. I don’t remember having felt that much fear in my body about her ever.  These are the type of behaviors that affect me greatly and are disrespectful of my values and of myself. I used to be put off by that. Now that I have PTSD and she knows about it I feel not only ignored, but provoked. It's hard for me to not see meanness in that. She has started doing these strange types of communication some years ago but it never got to that level of disregard.

I cannot wrap my brain around the fact that she can feel it’s OK to treat me like that. And than I am wondering if I will ever be able to have trust and intimacy with someone who feels so entitled in this way.

[Foursome]

Sounds very familiar to me.  She is playing with you like a toy.  You can test this theory of course... .but its very hard just telling you.

Go NC and stay that way for two or three weeks.  Don't respond to anything don't send anything.

It's much easier if you block means to contact you.  They will use every trick in the book to get you to respond and then way lay you.

After a couple weeks it would surprise me if she wasnt standing at your door begging.

Here is the kicker... .if she doesn't you well on your way to ridding yourself of the emotional baggage.  It's hard.  There will be hiccups and times when you feel like your coming undone.

Your not ... .your just recovering from an addiction.  Its really that simple.  You have grown dependant on it.

Now here is another word of advice.  Focus on yourself.  But do it privately.  If you wanna go out do it where you know she won't be and have fun.

Go to the gym or really anything to keep busy but don't broadcast it in hopes she is going to see it or hear about it and come a running.

She might but with her hands full of IMA GET CHA BACK $%^ *&^%!

I feel for ya because I have been there.  I have made all the mistakes in the book and learned what happens first hand.

Its not there fault.  They are mentally ill ppl.  They do what they do strictly out of a sense of survival.  AND THEY ALWAYS SURVIVE!

Take it easy on yourself and just think of all the terrible things she has put you through.

[Radcliff]

braveSun, I'm so sorry to hear about the level of anxiety you are feeling.  When I'm stressed about situations beyond my control, in particular when I want a certain reaction out of my spouse that I can't control, my anxiety can go off the charts.  The key for me is to let go of things I cannot control, and focus on things I can.  I know this is basic advice, but honestly, it's the only thing that works.  It's also so natural for you to wonder what this means about the future of intimacy.  Make that a tomorrow problem, though.

You know that she is healthy.  That's a relief.  With that knowledge, can you try to focus on the life that is in front of you, what you can control?  Are there some activities you can get engaged in, whether for pleasure, or to be productive?  What works for you to soothe yourself?

WW

[formflier]

Hey braveSun,

How are you feeling about things now that some time has passed?

I'm going to put some "dittos" on what Wentworth had to say about taking care of yourself and focusing on what you can control. 

I cannot wrap my brain around the fact that she can feel it’s OK to treat me like that. 

 
I would encourage you to step away from thinking you assign to her of "feeling it's ok to treat you that way".  When I read that it appears (to me) that you are giving her credit for a thoughtful process about what she will do and say... and that perhaps she considered your PTSD when she said what she said and did what she did.

It is unlikely she thought of you much (if at all) in formulating her responses.  She likely "followed her emotions" and whatever "came out"... came out... without a filter.

There is actually hope in this for you.  (I hope I have your interest)  Knowing that this is about her emotions and the "cycles" of her BPDish issues offers you a chance to "control" or influence (somewhat) how she reacts to you.

If you are interested in learning more about this... .let us know.  I see lots of stuff in this post we can work with.

FF

[braveSun]

braveSun, I'm so sorry to hear about the level of anxiety you are feeling.  When I'm stressed about situations beyond my control, in particular when I want a certain reaction out of my spouse that I can't control, my anxiety can go off the charts.

  I thank you for sharing this WW. It's when I get the harsh life feeling. Like, I'm alone in this or what?

The key for me is to let go of things I cannot control, and focus on things I can. 

  Yes I had to let that go, WW. I did. I'm taking care of myself. Did good things for comfort yesterday and that helped. Could not just keep it inside. I had to share it on this board.

It's also so natural for you to wonder what this means about the future of intimacy.  Make that a tomorrow problem, though.

  Yes. I'll hold that part for later. There is a lot to say about this.

You know that she is healthy.  That's a relief. 

  Yes. When I read the tenant's text, my anxiety did drop significantly. She's healthy physically. Maybe. When she's into high stress she can have serious health issues. Thus the whole shenanigan of her saying I am giving her too much stress. And some people she talks to being upset at me. A chicken in the egg thing.

I know. Change will have to start with me. No T is possible for me right now. It's a bit much. So yes, if I know she has someone staying with her and she says she is OK, than I can relax and go back to my own affairs. When she doesn't respond, though, it's a totally other ball game.

At least I did communicate to her in a voice message and I was talking from a calm place when I did. I did my part letting her know that this affects my anxiety. It's done. That ball is in her court. She might never catch it, and I feel at a big loss when examining that possibility. I let it go.

[braveSun]

Hey braveSun,

How are you feeling about things now that some time has passed?

   I feel upset, but not so much in fight or flight response now. Not great, but OK. Doing my breathing exercises.  Will try to meditate today.

 

I would encourage you to step away from thinking you assign to her of "feeling it's ok to treat you that way".  When I read that it appears (to me) that you are giving her credit for a thoughtful process about what she will do and say... and that perhaps she considered your PTSD when she said what she said and did what she did.

It is unlikely she thought of you much (if at all) in formulating her responses.  She likely "followed her emotions" and whatever "came out"... came out... without a filter.

No filter. Yes. That's what I get. Thank you for helping me separate how I would react from how she does. Heavy heart for me now. I remember one time my mother had been given a certain medication for intense pain at the hospital and she ended up having mini strokes in her brain, undergoing a threshold of pain. She did lose some of her communication centers at that time. She was able to talk to me on the phone, but her sentences would come out all in a nonsense jumbled mess with weird words relationships. It was scary for her, for me, all of us grown kids. My mother had been a stellar role model in helping her own sister through Alzheimer at the end of her life. It was a shock for all of us. I remember her social worker telling me that my mom was behaving very badly with the hospital staff, being rude and defiant to them. So much not like her!... One expression the social worker used was exactly that, 'no filters'. In those moment I kind of don't recognize my spouse. I know clearly it's not the same thing. But my instinct gets triggered that something is not right. I am feeling powerless there.

I don't know if I should reach out to her doctor. She doesn't even tell him some of the details I find relevant in her medical complaints when she goes to see him. She's been rejecting my inputs about several things, so I've stayed out of it. But with the other friends and family being around her now, and her going on with her version of what she sees wrong about me and my life, I feel hurt in my spousal vows. It's a mess.

A silver lining might be that some of the people she'll talk to will see what I'm talking about eventually, if she shares enough about her own feelings to them.

I don't feel exactly ostracized, but certainly I feel rejected and misrepresented by her. It's painful. She has paranoid episodes where she thinks I'm here to take or use her money and according to that way of thinking, it's hard for me to not see her trying to control me to 'whip me back to work'.

The reason I attributed her this 'deliberate intent' is because of the language she uses when she dysregulates, like, based on me being the cause  of her worries and too much stress, therefore she will yell things like 'I won't talk to you anymore until you get your life together', or 'It's the last time I give you money', or she'll reframe and attack the validity of our relationship (18+ years) or our marriage (my immigration status is based on it) or sometimes she'll just hang up on me. Especially so, especially when I am feeling like reaching out to her for some kind of sweetness when I need it, that's... , well... All dragons out!. 

There seem to have been more dysregulation times than good times in the recent weeks, so the coloring comes along with that.

There is actually hope in this for you.  (I hope I have your interest)  Knowing that this is about her emotions and the "cycles" of her BPDish issues offers you a chance to "control" or influence (somewhat) how she reacts to you.

If you are interested in learning more about this... .let us know.  I see lots of stuff in this post we can work with.

    Sure FF, anybody with insights who can help me sort this out and stick to my path, go ahead. Always greatly appreciated.

[braveSun]

One more thing I just remembered. It's our anniversary in a week.

[formflier]

 
I don't know if I should reach out to her doctor. She doesn't even tell him some of the details I find relevant in her medical complaints when she goes to see him. She's been rejecting my inputs about several things, so I've stayed out of it. But with the other friends and family being around her now, and her going on with her version of what she sees wrong about me and my life, I feel hurt in my spousal vows. It's a mess.
 

I'll come back later with some tips, especially about the paranoia.  That was huge for a while in my r/s.

So... .share with me how she asks for your inputs and then apparently rejects that.  Seems like a vicious cycle.

Can you share details of a recent episode?

FF

[braveSun]

So... .share with me how she asks for your inputs and then apparently rejects that.  Seems like a vicious cycle.

OK. One classic example. We'll talk on the phone and she tells me that she has not slept well. I ask her why she thinks that could be. She doesn't know. I think about myself, when I am not sleeping well, and something will come up and I'll share that to check if that could apply to her. One thing I've been bringing up lately is when I eat processed foods (too much sodium) late in the day and as a result I get hot and cold in the night, so wake up often in the night.  Or when I don't drink enough water through my day I'll have a hard time to sleep my night too (we live in hot weather).

She'll say she doesn't eat well. Or she needs to drink more water.

I'll go on trying to figure out how to make the water drinking more enjoyable. Like I'd ask her if she has any ginger tea (no caffeine) to make ice tea. I know she likes ginger tea. She says yes, she might do that.

Than the next morning she got cranky in the morning, saying she didn't sleep well, I asked her how her drinking (water, ginger tea, etc... ) went. She'll push me back and say she doesn't want to talk anymore about this.

Eventually, we talk less in the morning, more in the afternoons.

She'll not eat properly, she'll not drink enough fluids, and she'll refuse to talk about it anymore.

Couple of days, maybe weeks later, we'll be back with this. She won't do it while she is alone, or with her friend who lives there part time. She'll do it when I make the ginger tea and ask her/bring her the water throughout the day while I am with her.

This example is a light weight one. The situations with her doctor are more complex.

[formflier]

OK. One classic example. We'll talk on the phone and she tells me that she has not slept well. I ask her why she thinks that could be. She doesn't know. 

OK... gotcha.  How does she go about asking for your help in figuring this out?  Did you not share that part?

"I'm not sleeping well... .can you help me think through a solution?"  (does she say something like that?)

FF

[braveSun]

OK... gotcha.  How does she go about asking for your help in figuring this out?  Did you not share that part?

"I'm not sleeping well... .can you help me think through a solution?"  (does she say something like that?)

FF

She doesn't ask directly for help. She says that she had a bad night and I try to figure out why. It's a bit one of our rituals for intimacy. Not sleeping well makes her feel cranky and miserable. I'm all for her to be comfortable. It's been that way for a long time between us. If there is something that bothers her, she'll tell me so. It's my natural to try to find a solution.

Some of the things I suggest she will agree on them. Only later she will tell me she doesn't want to talk about it. (Possibly if she has not done it.)

Something interesting about this is that in the past, we used to be very close to each other with our health habits. We would order supplements together. We shared every little thing. Now, she doesn't seem to be interested in doing things together for our health as much if it's my idea or opinion. So I try to not push it.

We've been separated for a while. While we've been apart she developed different responses for herself, some the same, some different. Now I think she'll talk about her small issues with more people than just with me. Which in general is fine with me. I just feel like we have lost this part of our connection over those years. I think she does too, because sometimes she seems happy to do some of the things we used to do together. In her good times. 

[formflier]

She doesn't ask directly for help. 

Oh... I see.  So... .am I right to assume that you ask her first if she would like help sorting it out and you wait for a clear response before sharing your thoughts?

How long has this ritual you talk about been going on?

FF

[braveSun]

Oh... I see.  So... .am I right to assume that you ask her first if she would like help sorting it out and you wait for a clear response before sharing your thoughts?

How long has this ritual you talk about been going on?

FF

Sounds like I should ask her.

Never thought about it that way. She doesn't ask for help, but somehow, I feel compelled to try to do something to stop the bad sleep nights. Or the allergic reactions. Or the pains. Or the dizziness spells. The unnecessary ills, when I know I can help. We know each other. On some aspects, she is very good at taking care of herself. On some other, she'll need some nudging. A bit like when you feel unwell sometimes it's difficult to figure out what to do next to help yourself, but if a loved one brings in a question or a memory of what you used to do for this and that, than sometimes something clicks.

Something worth to try, next time it happens.


However, I should add that when she doesn't sleep well she is grumpy. Not something I want to be around that much either. She can be very harsh in her judgements towards me or others. Shockingly at times.

Which probably has something to do with my making sure some focused attention would be brought to her needs, because for some of it, she won't pick up. We're an old couple, FF.

Well... If I think about it some more, I see that taking care of each other was also a part of our courtship in some way. The caring part.

But also, I think that we get more easily entrenched into our habits as old couple. Sometimes I might overreach, or simply she doesn't want to be bothered. She overreaches too and I don't like it when she does.

But if we are talking about what is validating and what is invalidating regarding my way to take care of her, I think things are not clear cut. It's not good to take over the other person and micromanage. But it's not good either to just let the other off as if it didn't matter what they do or don't.

My belief is none of us are perfect, we make mistakes with overreaching (or, underreaching) at times. But the nuances can get lost when she is dysregulated. Same for me when I am feeling hurt, or shut down. 

Well, let's see if I start to ask her if she does want help next time... If she refuses help, than I'll have to decide what I want to do if she doesn't want my help but keeps being grumpy (or sick!... ). I have walked away many times on accounts of disrespect. With the extinction bursts, that has resulted in me being away more than I would have wanted. And her being angry much more than I would like it to be.  Than in turn there has been less time together because of all the time outs...

[Radcliff]

I think formflier hit the nail on the head here.  I can be a caretaker/problem solver.  I learned to joke about it a bit with my wife, and at first would say, "Would you like me to help fix it, or just listen?"  Eventually I got better tuned and would start out by just listening, and only if I saw a sure opening, or if I asked her, would I try to help fix it.  You can also make a very gentle attempt and then retreat, like "What do you think about B12 vitamins?"

When listening, a very good approach is to validate the feelings.  That's often more important than fixing the problem.  Once feelings are validated, perhaps she'll be more interested in help, or perhaps a particular situation ought to be just left at validating the feelings. 

WW

[formflier]

I saw a lot of myself in  your post (my old self... .and I still have the tendency)... .so... .I asked some questions.

Listen.  I'm going to go "military" on you here.

Where is the "battlefield"?  It's very important you understand "what" you are fighting and "where".  (don't pack shorts for an artic battle)

Uh oh... .FF rabbit trail coming:  Should I tell you about the time eating "artic MREs" (double calories)... .in the summer... .in Jordan?  (Bad FF... .stay on target)

It's about her emotions  Your battlefield is "her heart".  The pathway to her heart is very likely through her ears.


This article came to mind

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

I haven't read the book, but I really like the vibe of this post.

Put "fixing" things way down on the list.  Listen first, deal with emotions... .be there for her and maybe... .just maybe at the end ask something very general.

Do not ask:  "Can I help you solve your sleep issue" (or whatever else)

D ask:  "I'm glad we talked.  What are your thoughts on next steps?"  (and if she says she doesn't know... express confidence in her)  (if she asks you... .let her know you will give it some thought and encourage her to do so as well)

Thoughts?

FF

[braveSun]

Thanks FF for sharing of your experience and your insights!     
   
Here is something.

VALIDATING QUESTIONS

The key to validating phrases and questions is that they do not contain any answers.  They parallel the feelings and expressions of the person you are listening to and do not insert your interpretation of the situation or conversation.  If you supply an answer within the phrase or question, you cease to validate because all you want is to have the other person confirm what you are thinking.

The "why" questions just don't have any good answers... .Questions that back people into a corner don't help.

Guilty as charged...

Considering our long history together, it’s hard for either her or myself to not infer some of the answers. Bad habits have a way to insert themselves on their own...

The question is how to bring back the lightheartedness of communication like we had it at the beginning? I mean, when we know it was than  and that we are different now, and see each other differently now. (Besides the idealization/devaluation effect.) I like WW’s idea of bringing in a bit of a sense of humor.

I think her feelings may go there. To how it was between us back than. She gets upset. She says we don’t have anything together anymore. Worst than that, when she’s angry she’ll reframe our relationship and minimize its validity all together. 

It’s the loss of that simple loving part we both are hurting for.

When that happens, my feelings want to go back there too, naturally, I get it. It just gets so frustrating, even hurtful to be rejected. And than the all out attacks on my own vulnerability. 

For me to have a vulnerability doesn’t mean my goals are impossible, it means I have to find a solution to the problem in front of me. One step at a time. For her, being vulnerable is something she doesn't even want nor tolerates.  She'd rather change everything, and have it done yesterday. (Consider the idealization/devaluation effect.) Two very different ways to see this!...

Than the negative intentions projected at me... (I'll hold on for that one.)


MORE CONTEXT
FF, I like the imagery of a battlefield.   

It's not one battle either, it's an all out journey of not knowing how this will turn out and how long I will be able to hold it. I want to add that I do pick my battles, yeah. I have learned to let go of some things, to wait out some, to just plain leave alone, all of that. But for some issues, I feel at a great loss. Sometimes scared.

If she doesn’t sleep well one night, usually the next night she’ll be catching up, so that’s not a big one. But sometimes the issues can get her to ER.  And I do want her to make her own decisions. I do. I am seeking support for, hmm, maybe a bit of philosophy  for myself. Because I feel hurt when she rejects my help and than something happens.

She has a tendency to complain to her family and friends about me. That adds an element of distrust from some of them to me, and also from me to some of them, whom I realize are not very supportive of our marriage.  Not easy there.

WHAT I AM LEARNING
1. I have used some of these open (validating) questions with her most of the time, so I'm not too too off. Over time she has not stuck to the changes I suggested, albeit tried some of them. Yet these problems are there and, well, I feel irritated/hurt by the whole discourse (it’s all my fault, I give her too much stress, one close friend of hers told me it’s because her needs are not met, etc... ). It’s not a surprise to me that a ‘why’ would show up inadvertently...

Sometimes I just want to ask her:
Why are you feeling this bad?
What's happening to you?
Why do you think like this?

Still, not the best choice for my intent. I need to be more specifically aware.

2. I need to grieve. I do understand that these physical crisis are not in my control, I can’t prevent them. I only know that some of the things she does exacerbate what makes her feel ill. I know I can’t control her, it’s not what I want to do. I cannot control either what other people around her think of me. 

a) It’s hard for me to keep my balance in all of this. She is passed retirement age, she’s aging, so my actions or non actions are sometimes undergoing scrutiny by other people in her life. That too, is puzzling me. I didn't expect that much triangulation would go on. Because of her ways, there can be a lot of pressure on me.
 
b) It's a lot of letting go.  I need to take care of my own life plans and I feel under pressure. Now that I am living separately, I may be a bit more at ease. But that doesn't necessarily help with our marriage.

3. I feel lonely. And while I want to find meaning while looking for work here in the city, I am facing a lot of wind. I would like more support for forging ahead with my own livelihood, and I am pulled back and forth by my spouse's feelings and reactions, her general rebellion towards me. I don't want to detach too much to ignore her, and on the other hand, I feel like it's affecting my ability to stay strong on my course and that increases my vulnerability to her attacks over time.

I understand my marital responsibility is to not go on in life just solo, like she's walking on her side of the road and I'm walking alone on my side. Learning to take care of our own needs doesn't mean to interfere with our ability to have a good relationship. I want to keep certain concepts where they belong.

She's been saying that I am too dependent on her, so she'll try to go NC with me until I 'get it together'. (Consider the idealization/devaluation effect.) I don't think like that. I want to keep trying to reconnect with her. Whatever might happen with the relationship, I would not be able to forgive myself if I had not tried everything I can.

If you'd ask me now what my best wish would be, I'd say I would like the relationship to get back into a more loving place.

Thanks FF and WW for your posts! Keep 'em coming! 

 

[formflier]

A few things that have helped me.

I stay away from "why" questions.  I make a deliberate effort to "help me understand" (and other things like that).

"Why" is for courtrooms... .I don't get on the witness stand anymore and I don't put my wife (or others) on the witness stand either?

I also am deliberate about keeping my "fixing" out of things unless I'm specifically asked.  For instance, a few days ago my wife let loose with a dysregulated rant via text.  I couldn't figure anything to say... .so I've stayed quiet.  Then, I get a phone call from her last night, she is sweet as pie.  She specifically asked for help with a military reservation system.  I stayed friendly, helped her... she was grateful.  Nothing about the rant was mentioned.

Now... I do have a plan to "deal with" the rant... .separate issue for later.

Once "most" of your relationship is about "feelings" and not about fixing... .things will improve.

Once she has to ask for help... .and you give it... .that gives her a chance to say thanks.  Again... improvement.

Now... .here is a question for you.  What are you going to do with all the extra energy that you used to "put into" fixing? 

FF

[braveSun]

"Why" is for courtrooms... .I don't get on the witness stand anymore and I don't put my wife (or others) on the witness stand either?

I think you are touching a nerve with the courtroom reference. I know that she's been talking to lawyers, trying to figure out how to angle a divorce with less costs possible if she needs to actionate that down the road. It's a sticky topic. I am glad to hear that you don't get on that stand anymore FF. That's reassuring.  

 I also am deliberate about keeping my "fixing" out of things unless I'm specifically asked.  For instance, a few days ago my wife let loose with a dysregulated rant via text.  I couldn't figure anything to say... .so I've stayed quiet.  Then, I get a phone call from her last night, she is sweet as pie.  She specifically asked for help with a military reservation system.  I stayed friendly, helped her... she was grateful.  Nothing about the rant was mentioned.
 

Now... I do have a plan to "deal with" the rant... .separate issue for later.

Nice example. Please keep me posted on that separate issue.

Once "most" of your relationship is about "feelings" and not about fixing... .things will improve.

I'll stay out of the wording  'fixing' on purpose. But I will say that problem solving is not the thing for feelings. Two different domains. We can want to fix things that are broken, but people   is another ball game... I just really want to do my best, whatever it might be.

The "most" of our relationship contacts has been, lately, focused on material issues, and I am grateful for the opportunity to stop and think right here...

Once she has to ask for help... .and you give it... .that gives her a chance to say thanks.  Again... improvement.

Yes!... And I would add that it would also be an improvement for me as well, because

a) I would feel grateful that I could be meaningful to her.
b) I would feel so much more efficient in my life in general, as I would know how to really help, which in turn would maybe help to reduce these crisis, eventually, at least not be bothered by them so much.

Unfortunately the  b) item has to be applied to something else, like you kindly suggest. Unfortunately because it's so natural for a non to expect that working on problems together is a good manifestation of one's love. Well... I will think about what you are saying and see how I can best apply this energy for best manifestation.

Thank you FF for your wise words.

Counter-intuitive indeed!... .

[formflier]

Just so you know... .the "way I plan to deal" with the rage via text is:

My wife was complaining about something on Amazon being bought on her card.  She wanted to be reimbursed.  I asked a follow up question.  No response.

Day or to later... she followed up.  If we were going to deal with any other Amazon transactions where she bought with my card... without asking... .I could get a divorce to settle that.  For this issue... I could pay her back. 

Then the flamethrower stayed on for a long text blather.

Anyway... my plan is... .I'll deal with Amazon purchases if she deals with her rage (apologizes sincerely).  I'll be nonchalant... fine with either way (again... just leaving the ball and the work in her court) and let her wrestle with impact of her rage... .vice me wrestle with it.

Honestly... I doubt she will bring up Amazon again... she knows how I operate.  Cost is too high for her... usually.

FF

[braveSun]

Just so you know... .the "way I plan to deal" with the rage via text is:

My wife was complaining about something on Amazon being bought on her card.  She wanted to be reimbursed.  I asked a follow up question.  No response.

Day or to later... she followed up.  If we were going to deal with any other Amazon transactions where she bought with my card... without asking... .I could get a divorce to settle that.  For this issue... I could pay her back. 

Then the flamethrower stayed on for a long text blather.

Anyway... my plan is... .I'll deal with Amazon purchases if she deals with her rage (apologizes sincerely).  I'll be nonchalant... fine with either way (again... just leaving the ball and the work in her court) and let her wrestle with impact of her rage... .vice me wrestle with it.

Honestly... I doubt she will bring up Amazon again... she knows how I operate.  Cost is too high for her... usually.

FF

FF, I can see your point about dealing with the issue at hand when the heat has cooled down and the rage has stopped. I would love to see my spouse apologize sincerely after a rant. She won't. Sometimes, but it's almost like a bonus type of thing. Once I gave it up...

She has done so about some yelling at me she had done over the phone recently. Also shared some of her difficult feelings, something like she was a bad person for yelling at me. I almost didn't know what to say... I said that I didn't believe it would be helping to consider oneself as 'bad' for that. It was better in my opinion to just do our best when we can.

I could have done better than that. Shown more heartfelt compassion. It was an awkward moment. In retrospect I think she was overwhelmed and attacked. Than, I wonder... What compelled her to want to apologize. Certainly not my control over her actions. But she clearly was interested in something I could provide for her at the moment.

Thing is, I don't want to get in that same mode of suspiciousness.

Sorry I cross posted on your post. Was most interested.

[Radcliff]

braveSun, I won't interject any substance here, since I think you're doing great -- just wanted to say I'm impressed at how thoughtfully you're working through this with formflier's help.

WW

[braveSun]

Thank you for your kindness and encouraging comments WW. I am learning a lot.

It's such a great help, you, FF, all of the others... I don't know what I would have done without these boards.