Forgiveness and recovery

[tin]

I'm finding it helpful to approach the relationship with the mindset that he was not intentionally emotionally abusing me or intentionally harming me.

I can now see that the way he repeatedly lost his self control and impulse control in ways that emotionally damaged me- overwhelmed me with his rage/outbursts, and repeatedly violated my boundaries and acted in ways that kept me feeling unsafe and in continual fight or flight... .real actions that have had real impacts on my sense of self, self worth, and mental health.

I know that my empathy, and being demanded of him, to attribute it to his trauma and abuse. The reality is that while he was aware and diagnosed with PTSD and bipolar and worked as a therapist- he wasn't getting the treatment or professional help he should have been. And he should have known better. He instead thought that he was addressing his issues with meditation and reading about and preaching about Buddhist philosophies while continuing to act in harmful, toxic ways.

Instead he fixated on me getting help, and attacking, shaming, blaming and judging me for my anxiety and depression.

For some time I had been feeling angry at him for the damage he had done. For his anger, and the way it contributed to my dissociation. For his persuasiveness and promises and pushiness. Anger at our couples counselor for knowing that the relationship was emotionally abusive for months and never saying anything. She did try to work with him on being less controlling towards me.  And worked with me about setting boundaries with him. But while inside I questioned my sanity, if I was to blame, if only I were doing/saying things differently he wouldn't go into rages, he wouldn't break things, he wouldn't block me- now I know those are abusive things and that regardless of my own shortcomings, they

I feel like I need to forgive myself, but also work on changing. I also want to forgive him rather than allowing the poison of blame, resentment, and anger to simmer inside of me. I want to forgive my so called friends. The people who I opened up to, confided in, who stood by him as a friend even after the abuse came to light. Who supported, enable, and promoted him despite the ways he treated me.

I think approaching the situation with a mind of forgiveness is allowing me to detach. I can acknowledge my pain, acknowledge that he crossed the line too many times, cheated too many times, threatened to kill himself too many times, blocked and emotionally blackmailed me too many times, went into a rage against the people I was close to and drove them away too many times.

However I know that he did this from his own pain and his own struggles. I do think that he did love me but lacked the ability to manage his own emotions, and was too enmeshed with me. I know that I'm not just the victim of his abuse, but I enabled it and allowed it, I stayed.

I know now why I stayed, I now know the addiction to the highs and lows, the trauma based bonded, the dissociation and denial. I know the ways his actions and patterns contributed to that. However I need to remember my own power. I need to set boundaries and not allow myself to be treated that way. I need to validate myself without relying on others.

I know that the years of neglecting myself, of being sucked in to the drama of the relationship, of being drained and exhausted by the conflicts, were also my doing. While his actions made it difficult for me to cope, I still am just as responsible for my actions as he is responsible for his.

I'm finding this acceptance to be easier for me mentally, less stressful and draining than the anger and blame I first felt when I started thawing out and learning about abuse.

I can't learn about narcissistic abuse without crying. Without reliving the pain and mourning the years of my life, my energy, my spirit that were tied up in this battle. However casting the blame on him was eating me up inside. It's helped me to refocus on myself, my personal growth, my personal recovery to acknowledge that the reason I allowed this relationship into my life was my own neediness, my lack of self-love. While these things of course grew into monsters and were fueled and fed by the emotional abuse I am still responsible for my own life. For my own relationships. To love myself enough to take care of my self. To not seek outside approval and understanding, and comfort and validation from others. To first be a friend to myself rather than desperately wanting and craving friendship and acceptance from others.

I am thirty and had been in the relationship for 8 years. I had been dissatisfied and hurting for most of that time. I figure I am only this young, this energetic once. I have never done online dating (or really any dating) but as I find myself alone, falling asleep wanting to be held, wanting to meet new people and go on new adventures, and have new conversations, and wanting to build a new life and wanting to explore myself and relationships with others.

My ex acknowledged his emotional abuse (after many months of conflict and denial of course) and apologized for his behaviors and lack of control. Part of me wonders if it was on of his tactics in his desperation to 'get me back'. But I am grateful for the closure those emails he sent me did provide.

I am wondering when it's too soon to start dating. I know that I have a lot of self work to do still to recover. I know that I don't yet have the tools for entering into a healthy relationship, but I do wonder about 'dating casually'. I want to shift my focus of attention away from the past towards the future and possibilities. I want to have that there are other options out there who could appreciate me, and provide me with the dose of attention and affection I crave. I know that I should be in a place where I don't 'need' that from anyone, but I do want it. And I wonder if it doesn't help my self esteem? To be honest I created a profile on a dating app and started talking to people on there out of curiosity. Who else is out there? What am I looking for? What resonates with me? What am I drawn to? How will they speak to me or treat me? My mom and my older sister have encouraged me to try dating too. They are more of the mindset of find someone, get married settle down. I'm more of a mindset of explore, have fun, meet people, make connections, challenge myself out of my comfort zone, and build interpersonal skills. I don't want to commit to anything serious only a couple months after ended an 8 yr relationship (we were engaged for 3, co-owned a house which we now sold).

I'm in a pretty good place coming out of it- I have some friends who are relatively healthy and supportive, I have savings and my own financial independence, I still have my job (my productivity and ability to focus are low- especially with the depression and anxiety). For some reason I wonder if dating would help ease my depression and anxiety and give me some hope for the future. I feel like the idea of dating someone great and making friends who have their lives together is what is motivating me to learn, develop myself, exercise, and practice mindfulness. I wish I felt that way on my own, but when I'm isolating myself I don't feel that intrinsic motivation. Perhaps it's the desire for acceptance, belonging and connection that is driving me. But is that a bad thing? On one hand community and support are important? On the other hand why is my mind so fixated on dating and meeting guys? Why am I not focusing on my career and productivity?

Those of you who have gotten out of a relationship, what was your journey into forgiveness? Into dating? Into self indulgence and pleasure vs working hard? 

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Your story sounds so very much like mine. I applaud you for working on yourself and realizing your part in it as well as his. It's not easy to do but I think it helps a lot to forgive ourselves so we can move on.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to date casually while you work on yourself. I think we are social creatures and it's only natural to crave a normal relationship and connection with someone.

In my situation, I had grieved and let go of my marriage long before the actual divorce. I was done and had already emotionally moved on. Right after my divorce, I dated my best friend and we're now engaged. It's been a few years since my divorce. I've never been happier. He was there for me when I needed someone the most and being with him feels so natural, like we've known each other forever when it's "only" been several years. Some may think that I moved on too quickly. That is their opinion. I believe life is short and we need to find and enjoy whatever happiness we can while we can. So I believe you should do what you feel is best for you. It's your life.

After denying ourselves happiness for so long, I think we become accustomed to it and have a hard time with self-indulgence when it's really self-care. I realized that all these years (married for almost twenty years), I had become a workaholic to escape his verbal and emotional abuse. During that marriage, I felt guilty anytime I wanted something for myself even when it was as "simple" as taking a vacation day alone by myself. It hasn't been easy to switch gears. After the divorce, it took time for me to accept I needed self-care and that it is not only okay but necessary. I've been trying to practice mindfulness. Being more aware of what I need. When I'm tired, I need to slow down and take it easy. I've taken more vacation time now than I had ever before and it feels great! It took time and therapy for me to do this. You wrote you have a hard time with self-indulgence. Have you tried baby steps? What is something you really want to do that would make you happy? Something "small". Maybe get with a massage? Or taking a vacation day to do something fun or nothing at all? What is something you want to do for yourself?

As for forgiveness, that's a tough one for me at times. It sounds to me that you're on a great path for this. For me, it's basically taken time and therapy. I think what helps me is understanding the "why". Why did he abuse me? He's probably uBPD\NPD. It doesn't make it right but it does explain an awful lot. Why did I "let" him abuse me? Through therapy, I realized I had been emotionally abused since I was a baby/toddler. It set me up for accepting a life time of abuse, not knowing it was abuse. When I learned this along with what abuse actually is, it really helped me a lot. Recognizing what I can and cannot control helps me too. I cannot control what him or others think of me. I can only control myself and that is okay. I need to set and enforce my own boundaries.

I also learned to recognize projection, gas-lighting, history rewriting, etc. Knowing who I am as well as having good solid boundaries helps tremendously as well. Some days my ex totally pisses me off and that's okay too. I'm learning to recognize what is appropriate anger versus being triggered (I have PTSD) and dealing with it appropriately. I had been emotionally shutdown most of my life. I'm still learning to deal with my emotions now that I've opened up the flood gates, so to speak, with my therapist's help.

You wrote about trauma bonding. I think it's wonderful that you can see it and are working through it. It's not easy by any means but I think you're doing a fantastic job!

I can't learn about narcissistic abuse without crying

I completely understand! I still cry at times when I read about it. It's okay and I think it's all part of our journey to healing and moving on.

I'm really glad you got some closure when your ex acknowledged his emotional abuse. My ex has not acknowledged his emotional abuse. Although, once he did write that he could see where I felt controlled by him. That was the extent of it. It was something I suppose. There was so much more that he had done and even justified it as being my fault. I could write a book about it. I'm learning to let it go. I don't need it for me to move on and heal.

I think it sounds like you are doing great with your self awareness and healing!

[Turkish]

I want to forgive my so called friends. The people who I opened up to, confided in, who stood by him as a friend even after the abuse came to light. Who supported, enable, and promoted him despite the ways he treated me.

I imagine this might be one of the hardest things to deal with,  kind of like being betrayed do you think?

[pearlsw]

Hey tin,

Thank you for sharing these thoughts - they are so open, honest, and brave!

I sometimes jumped right back into dating, sometimes took longer breaks. It sounds like if you do start up with that you are in a good place to do that. I am amazed how clearly you are able to articulate what you want versus what others want for you.

I think if you bring this level of awareness into it it should go well for you. I think I just liked who I liked and was so easy going I may not have been careful enough at times who I was really letting into my life, and those folks, nice as they were, brought a lot of damage and problems into my life. Of course you can't avoid all that others bring along with them, but still... .it is worthwhile to be cautious and aware.

So what would you be looking for in a partner now that you know what you know?

take care, pearl.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Tin-
Your insight is simply amazing... .and inspiring.  I'm not sure this can help you, but here's what I did.  I was struggling mightily with the idea of forgiveness.  I felt I had forgiven pretty unforgivable behaviors for years, until he did something I simply could NOT forgive. 

I started a thread on 3/18/2018 called The Delusion of Forgive and Forget.  I hope you will look it up and read the whole thing - sorry, I don't know how to link it.  I was in a very bad space when I started that thread.  And then I came back to it a few weeks later and did what I'd call a "confessional", or list of things he did that I forgave.  And it's just a partial list.  And then the final thing that I could not forgive.  It was so cathartic. 

I actually told one of my friends about my list and she asked me to read it to her, which I did.  She was astounded and asked why I never told her any of the things he had done.  It's sad the things we excuse when we're inside these relationships.

Now I go back and read my list out loud when I feel moments of weakness.  Perhaps doing something like I did will help you?

As far as dating goes, I'm not there yet.  But you're much younger than me.  If you have any doubts about being ready for one on one time, maybe you can start with "meet-up" get togethers.  Have you heard of those?  They have groups all over the country, you find people with common interests and they do get-togethers.  That may be a good way for you to dip your toes back into the social pool.

Wishing you a love-filled future with a man who deserves you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[tin]

I imagine this might be one of the hardest things to deal with,  kind of like being betrayed do you think?

Thanks, I agree. Yes it very much felt like a betrayal. It felt like being abandoned when I needed my 'friends' for emotional support the most. My ex has always been extremely outgoing, charismatic, and able to enjoy and forge deep meaningful connections with complete strangers instantaneously. The type of person who could go to any event by himself and have a great time. I have been less trusting and more reserved, especially as a result of the isolating, dissociation, self esteem devastating impacts of the emotional abuse. It was only around my closest friends that I felt like 'myself again'- more relaxed, silly, fun. It was only around my closest friends I felt like I could let my guard down around. And for them to support and enable and encourage and promote my ex in public and visible ways, after everything I confided in them about the damaging, hurtful things he had done, was extremely unsettling. It made me question my own sanity and my own reality. It made me wonder if anyone actually cared about me and question my self worth. It made me feel bitter and broken and deeply wounded. When I tried to share how I felt with these 'friends' trying to practice my newfound 'boundaries' and 'opening up' practices again after being very withdrawn, isolated, and closed up during the abusive relationship, I was so so disappointing in the cold, defensive and mean/judgmental ways these 'friends' responded. I had let these friends into myself because they were kind, accepting, supportive, sensitive, conscious, self aware people who I felt loved, safe, and valued around. It was shattering to me when they turned against me. I still question whether their support of me was only superficial, and limited. Or if my ex, who is quite persuasive and emotionally savvy was simply able to turn them against me. Or if my feelings and pain and expectations were coming from a place of neediness, self doubt, and desperation and that is was drove them away. I think that self doubt that was amplified through the relationship has been something challenging to reign in after cutting him out and feeling hesitant to make decisions. I feel like most people in my life have questioned and doubted me as well and it has been frustrating to acknowledge the toxicity in my own family and childhood friends while deeply investigating unhealthy relationships. I hope I can rebuild a new foundation within myself without feeling like I have a trustworthy support system. I even question my counselor for having known it was an emotionally abusive relationship yet failing to talk to me about it- I had a lot of doubts and concerns but she never labelled it as such which I think may have been helpful, coming from her instead of coming from friends/family in passive aggressive statements about him/our relationship.

[tin]

So what would you be looking for in a partner now that you know what you know?

Thanks I often wonder if these thoughts swimming around in my heart/head make any sense at all so it's helpful to put them out here and see if they make any kind of sense to others who are on this journey. I feel like I wonder how honest/open I should be about my background/struggles (the past relationship and the problems in it). Like if I should put it out there right off the bat, or first get to know someone and then wait if things progress to acknowledge some of this baggage.

I think I was wary the last time of the grand, over top gestures of love and admiration from my ex during his 'idealizing' me stage, and I would be even more so wary now. In general anyone who seems overly fixated on my looks and not interested in me as a person is an automatic turn off. I would love to find someone who is calm and has little drama- but not in a way that is self- repressed. Simply easy going and able to let things go. My ex seemed great on paper and had many great qualities and his anger/rage/controlling vibes only came out in full force after we got engaged- we bought a house and moved in together and that's when the full craziness came to light.

I mean after having been together for 8 years and having been engaged and bought a house together it's felt more like a divorce than a break up. I want someone who is patient, respectful, and able to be silly too. Someone who has clarity on their own baggage and a willingness to work on themselves and be accountable to their own actions and reactions. Someone who is able to give me space and independence, but not take me for granted. I mean these all seem like very basic characteristics that most decent people should carry. I think someone who genuinely shares my interests, values and (healthy) lifestyle goals without mirroring me or absorbing my identity and opinions as their own and gets upset when I refuse to do the same! I think someone who has a healthy relationship with their family! And has maintained long term relationships with friends, coworkers, etc consistently might indicate some healthy patterns. Just someone who's company I can enjoy in an uncomplicated way!

[MaybeMaybeNot]

I feel like I need to forgive myself, but also work on changing. I also want to forgive him rather than allowing the poison of blame, resentment, and anger to simmer inside of me. I want to forgive my so called friends. The people who I opened up to, confided in, who stood by him as a friend even after the abuse came to light. Who supported, enable, and promoted him despite the ways he treated me.

Dear Tin,

Please remember that you have all the reasons to be angry. You can not genuinely forgive somebody if you feel the anger, no matter how hard you try to deny your feelings. I agree with you that forgiving is crucial for moving on, I just do not think you are ready for that just yet. And this is fine. Eventually the anger will pass and there is some room for forgiveness. Anger is not your enemy. It is your friend helping you to detach from this situation. You will be doing great!

[tin]

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to date casually while you work on yourself. I think we are social creatures and it's only natural to crave a normal relationship and connection with someone.

In my situation, I had grieved and let go of my marriage long before the actual divorce. I was done and had already emotionally moved on. Right after my divorce, I dated my best friend and we're now engaged. It's been a few years since my divorce. I've never been happier. He was there for me when I needed someone the most and being with him feels so natural, like we've known each other forever when it's "only" been several years. Some may think that I moved on too quickly. That is their opinion. I believe life is short and we need to find and enjoy whatever happiness we can while we can. So I believe you should do what you feel is best for you. It's your life.
... .

I had a close friendship with my ex's best friend. And it kind of helped me to put my ex's actions/impact on me to light. I felt like i could talk to him without being scared, without him blowing up at me for what I say/feel! I felt safe with him. Spending time with a relatively normal person was super helpful. And I got him into learning swing dancing and he got me into jazz and we would go to live music and dance together. It's something I miss a lot since cutting out my ex and the people who stayed connected with him while keeping my life choices secret from my ex (where I'm living what I'm doing/feeling etc) since my ex would interrogate our mutual friends and try to read between the lines while they tried to keep secrets/lie for me. My sister and my mom (notice the meddling trend! haha) both kept asking me if I was going to date him after I broke up with my ex! We did have a close connection of being able to have deep emotional conversations and share sarcasm/humor, and the shared interested in the same dancing/music. However I don't even want to go there. I know my ex would freak out even more than he has already been freaking out. And while I don't want to live my life on his terms I do want to start fresh and avoid getting ensnared in any conflict with him. But wow do I miss this friend. I think it past relationships the guy's best friend was also someone I admired and felt close to and wished I could have explored that further but didn't want to enter into that weird territory. But having a friendship with someone first before dating them I think is necessary for me to develop feelings for someone and feel comfortable, open, and connected with them! But having been with my ex for 8 years he's either befriended or driven away pretty much everyone I know. And I feel a lot of anxiety even with no-contact about confiding in or trusting in people who maintain contact with my ex.

I hope that I'm able to 'indulge' and enjoy things but even when I do 'fun' things I don't enjoy them. I feel a great deal of anxiety and depression about myself, the ways I've neglected my health, and low self esteem that's making it hard to get out, interact with people, try and do things. I am trying to figure out which baby steps could help me get my self esteem back, rather than creating more anxiety, stress, and distress! Perhaps those things aren't quite mutually exclusive.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I understand where you're coming from. Quite a few of the mutual friendships ended during my divorce. Some actually stayed my friend and stopped being his friend due to his horrible behavior. I tried to stay friends with my ex's sisters (we got along great) but that has since ended. I think he gave them too much grief for it and they just decided it'd be best to not contact me anymore. I understand why they did it and I'm fine with it. I understand about not wanting to go there with your ex's best friend. You have to do what is best for you.

I think it may just take time for you to enjoy having fun. I had a really hard time figuring out my baby steps. For me, it turns out I am a homebody. I like to stay home and relax. I don't really enjoy going out all that much. I had a hard time even buying myself something like a nice shirt just because I liked it. I'm getting better, though. Have you tried to brainstorm some ideas? Just starting writing things down and see what feels "right" to you or peaks your interest? What also helped me was working with my therapist to figure out why I felt stressed and anxious about indulging. The more we worked on it, the better I started to feel about it and that it is okay for me to treat myself. Have you worked with a therapist on this?

[Cromwell]

Forgive but dont forget

[tin]

I think that it's hard for me to 'indulge' myself for a few reasons. A big part of my personal identity and professional work is rooted in activism and environmentalism and social justice. Along with that comes the idea of being a martyr or savior or self sacrificing for the greater good, as if that will ease the guilt of my life, guilt of my privilege, or offer some sense of fulfillment, some purpose.

Also I was raised by immigrant parents from India who didn't have much, pushed me to work hard, to take care of others, and with a lot of guilt and shame when I would act entitled or demanding of anything. Guilt and shame around taking care of myself and my appearance too- mocking me when I tried to do self care, adopt beauty routines, etc as a teenager and preteen. I think a lot of that goes deep into my psyche unfortunately though I realize the harm and irrationality. There is a LOT I'll need to unpack about a lot of things with my therapist- but at least I'll be just focusing on me, and not the drama and conflict of the relationship anymore (just the healing and letting go)!

[once removed]

speaking strictly personally, for some time i felt that i forgave my ex when i learned about borderline personality disorder, and began to better understand some of her struggles. anger was not a major part of my recovery until the later stages.

i think there was a grain of forgiveness in there, because i think better understanding someone elses perspective can very much help lead one to forgiveness.

but i think we always have to be careful not to confuse forgiveness or compassion with pity and feeling sorry for. there was an element to it that made me feel better about myself and see myself in a one up position vs her (which carried over from the relationship) that kind of papered over my rejection wounds. i wasnt in a one up position. she wasnt any more hopeless than i was. we tried hard with everything we had, we hurt each other a lot in the process, and the two of us were, frankly, a mess. it was seeing that for myself where i started to feel real peace and grace toward the both of us.