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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Suicide Ideation Prep and Response  (Read 417 times)
CoherentMoose
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« on: October 09, 2018, 10:50:31 AM »

Hello. My dear friend is getting close to leaving her husband and asking for a divorce. It's almost guaranteed he will threaten to end his life. I remember someone posting three lines a therapist gave her in case her STBX threatened suicide. Something to the effect "I'm going to miss you, but I'm not capable of helping you with this so here is the national suicide hot line and I'll be calling 911... ." My googlefu is weak and I cannot find the thread. Can anyone provide a reference to the thread? Or perhaps, remember the quotes? I thought they were especially good at framing the topic in the response to the HCP. Thank you. jdc  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)
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kells76
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2018, 02:09:02 PM »

Hi jdc,

The phrases you're thinking of have shown up in at least a few posts scattered over the site. If you haven't yet checked out the "Detaching" and "Conflicted" boards, take a look on those -- often members post there when they're trying to manage a separation like your friend's. Look for post titles similar to yours (i.e. "suicide threat").

What I remember from the posts I've read are statements like you mentioned:

"I really care about you. I just don't have the skills to help you when you feel like killing yourself. If you say you are going to kill yourself, I will call 911."

That's phrased like a boundary -- where instead of the speaker telling the threatener that the threatener MUST NOT commit suicide, the speaker says what the speaker will do. The speaker only has control over what s/he says and does, not over what the partner says and does. The speaker can choose to respond to what the partner does based on the speaker's values and abilities.

Make sense? Need more? Just let us know!

kells76
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CoherentMoose
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2018, 02:11:47 PM »

Outstanding. Thank you Kells
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2018, 07:43:16 PM »

It took me a few years to figure out Boundaries.  I was perplexed because I knew my ex hadn't respected boundaries for years.  Eventually I realized boundaries were for me.

Just demonstrate solid boundaries of appropriate behavior and stick to them.  As we eventually learned, acting-out disordered people don't respect boundaries and so we are the ones that have boundaries for us — as in, "If you do ___ or don't do ___ then I will ___."  (Example: "If you start ranting and raging then I will take the kids out to a movie, restaurant or park and return after you've calmed down.")  We don't tell the ex what to do, typically there is too much emotional baggage for them to listen to us, so we just have healthy boundaries that determine what we do in response.

AS for suicidal talk or threats, what you wrote is so very helpful... ."I really care about you. I just don't have the skills to help you when you feel like killing yourself. If you say you are going to kill yourself, I will call 911."

There is a warning though.  Picture the frantic spouse calling emergency services.  They arrive.  What can happen?  The previously claiming suicidal spouse can astoundingly recover in minutes and counter, "No, I'm not.  It's not me, it's her!"  So not only can there be Denial, but there may also be Blame Shifting.  How best to handle this?  Are there any witnesses with can support what really was happening when the call was made?  When I called 911 I had a voice recorder running.  Eventually that recording made a big difference.  Yes, my now-ex claimed I was the one behaving badly.  And the police defaulted to believing her over me.  Fortunately I didn't get carted off, my son saved me. 

Back then we didn't have the vast assortment of devices that can record, whether video or audio.  Now everything is digital and much is quite miniaturized.  However, another warning.  Waving a recorder in someone's face can trigger overreactions.  All we want to do is document incidents while also seeking not to antagonize the other.  I recorded on the down low, so to speak.  Often it was in a pocket.  Eventually my ex knew I could be recording sometimes but I never tried to antagonize her.  All it was was documentation of reality.

I called emergency services when my ex threatened my life, both before the call and afterward.  Fortunately I could discern her growing rage that day and it was recorded.  However, the speaker didn't work, I think the headphone jack was messed up, and no one heard it that day.  The officers spoke more with her than with me.  Then when one came to me, he asked me to pass my preschooler (quietly sobbing in my arms) to his mother and "step away".  Months later my lawyer's comments about that day connected the dots for me, that I was about to be carted away, perhaps even being arrested.  He said the police officers' first priority is to defuse the immediate situation, in my area that's taking away one of the spouses.  Well, when I tried to comply, my 3yo son screeched and clung tighter to me.  My spouse was just fuming at me.  I turned to the officer and shrugged as though "I tried."  He stared at me for a long moment, said "work it out" and they left.  I now say, My son saved me that day.

When I did get the sound file downloaded (in those days Olympus required their software to copy it to computer) I had an officer come out to listen to it.  Only partway through it he said, That's enough, I have enough for a report.  However, I made him listen to the rest.  I wanted him to hear the rest, another "I will kill you" after she grabbed the handset, threw it and broke it, how angry and cold she was to our preschooler who was crying.

Want to know some advice he gave me?  He warned me that too often in these situations the victim making the report withdraws the complaint and the legal system never gets to address the incident.  He specifically told me to not back down, water it down or let my spouse off the hook.  That would be hurting myself - and it would fix nothing and soon it would get bad again or worse.

There was a lot more to that post, this excerpt was what might most interest your friend.  Maybe she doesn't feel safe to join, risk of her spouse finding out, that's understandable.  She can also go to a friends house or the library to browse and post (we're anonymous) from a place safe and secure.
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