How do I say Thank you for gift when undiagnosed D-28 is so very angry

[Music Ace]

Our daughter has been on the rampage again, more directed at me (which is a bit of a nice break for my husband/her dad).  On Monday (early EARLY morning), she sent a run of texts ... .
"You guys can leave me alone forever"
"You were   parents when I was a kid and you're even worse now"
"Your chauvinistic husband can't even own up to what he said. He's a       . And you're weak to put up with it"
"I've been harassed and abused, I know what that  is like, if that's happening to you then you have to get out of it. But no one can force you just like no one could force me. Or anyone I know"
"Maybe you'd see it when he does it to his daughter but even then you can't"
"I just don't know how it's humanly possible to do the things you guys have done"
"Like   . If your perfect husband dies, do you want me and my sister to be there for you? or should be just drive by your house laughing at you having to clean up everything yourself?"
"Should we ignore the fact that you have a job and expect you to deal with everything plus a job plus grieving?"
"If I was a horrible person I'd actually wish you could experience such heartbreak from everyone you ever trusted"
"To just leave you in your own and watch and laugh"
"while I'm in the hosptial on IV fluids from not eating cuz self harm. Or maybe you think my wrists and ankles are a joke"
"I called Tim when I first tried to kill myself"  (Tim is her husband - was, he passed away in March suspected fentanyl)
"Why? Cuz he's always been there for me. Not you guys"
"Now I rely on my own luck, if I can call 911 on time. Fun game"
" But why would I call you? But like you'd answer the phone. Or you'd ignore me as usual"
"I'm glad I learned life lessons when I moved out. I pity the students you teach and can only imagine what they are learning. Terrible future"

This run was from 12:50 am - 1:04 am (she's an awesome typist! Incredible speed, dexterity and accuracy)

THEN at 8:51 pm - just after I left my weekly Naranon meeting
"Also,  if I find out you've been contacting any of my friends, that friendship will be over"

As I'm typing this out for some advice as we/I just received a gift from her via AMAZON.  It is a lovely and perfect for me/us gift.  I wanted to know how to say thank you without addressing any of the other comments ... .there were so many things she went at and brought up ... .I simply didn't know where to start.  I'm beat down again.  As most of you know, those sorts of things are hard to read even if you know they're not true ... .but there is always that niggling feeling, worming it's way into your brain.  WHAT IF, what if I missed something ... .just what if.

Now 10 minutes ago, I receive the following message ... .
"I hate you both. Not that you'd care. I hope you both learn what real suffering, abandonment, heartbreak etc. are.  Everything you put me through, I hope you can experience first hand. I guess genetics, I can still be evil like you guys."

I'm deflated.

I still don't know how to thank her for the lovely present.  I have no idea ... .just none.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[once removed]

thats a lot to be on the receiving end of... .

I still don't know how to thank her for the lovely present.  I have no idea ... .just none.

i would suggest doing so more or less in the way you would thank anyone for the gift.

i think you risk another string of messages if you ignore the other messages... .obviously you run the risk either way. i might acknowledge the messages in a neutral way, separate from the thank you for the gift.

[Music Ace]

Do you have a suggestion as to how to acknowledge her stream of consciousness in a neutral way, @Once Removed?

As for a thank you, this is how I would normally go about things.

Thanks so much for such thoughtful presents.  It meant so much to me to receive it, because it is exciting for the next stage of our lives.  You've said I could use a bit more adventure ... .and although I immediately went to the Canadian part of the book (bet you guessed that), I was excited to look at the Mexico part because I know you enjoyed your time there and said it was really neat to experience a different country. Who knows what adventures we could find if we traveled to Europe too.  They even include recommended hotels/excursions!  And the letter organizer is such a pretty colour.  I thought I could use it for different things that need completing, but this way they could be kept all together ... .yet at my fingertips and tidy!  You know we 'organized' people love things like this.  I haven't decided what we will use the gift card for.  There is a book of Canadian fiddle tunes I have been admiring, or we could get a different filter for dad's big lens.  So many options, it will be fun to decide.

Thanks again, I love you lots.

Mom

BUT - this seems all rather ridiculous considering the venom of the last couple of days (I didn't include the email referencing an article and her subsequent analysis of how you deal with things when your parents die - yup - that was a warm and fuzzy run too).

I KNOW, I'll be fine in 2 days (well, 2 days from the last unpleasant text/email) ... .but until I settle out and become acclimatized to and accepting of whatever the new relationship status is ... .I will lie in wait, in fear, until the next attack comes - or doesn't, as she decides.

My naranon buddy (not sponsor) suggested I keep the option of blocking her in my mind if I need to, to remain healthy myself. I'm not certain that's the right route ... .yet.

[once removed]

Do you have a suggestion as to how to acknowledge her stream of consciousness in a neutral way, @Once Removed?

not immediately. it is pretty hard to respond to. its just vitriol.

if nothing comes naturally, i might leave it. i dont know that theres anything constructive to say. you certainly dont want to validate it either.

BUT - this seems all rather ridiculous considering the venom of the last couple of days

it does. however, its good to reinforce the positive, and not validate the negative. it would help nothing to ignore the gift.

your thank you sounds good to me. the only thing i would ask is:

You know we 'organized' people love things like this.

just being organized and looking for pitfalls... .any chance shed read into that an implication that shes not an organized person?

[Lollypop]

Hi Ace

It must hurt a lot to read your daughters texts. I’m really sorry. She’s obviously feeling very emotional at moment.

Red flag should be up. It’s about calming the waters and, in my opinion, that’s best with least said.

You’ve written a lovely thank you but I agree with OR about “we” organised people. To be honest, I’d stick to the first sentence and close with “all our love”. The more you write the more she’s likely to become emotionally heightened. The more words can act as fuel to BPD, especially if they are “not feeling well”, ie balanced.

Whatever you write, I’d try to keep it short as possible , simple, warm and open hearted. Have you sent her a gift? Perhaps that could be mentioned, it may make her feel the connection between you two.

Let us know how you get in. Walking on eggshells springs to mind. Keep your chin up!

Hugs

LP

[Music Ace]

Thanks for the feedback - as I tend to be wordy (I type, text, talk ... .all the same ; the less is more, is an important reminder.

We were hoping to see her over the holidays, but I'm guessing that might be out just now. So, no, I have not sent her a present, but have something small here.  She destroys things she has been given (her choice) and has an addiction problem, has no money concerns, and 2 full households of items - so present giving is not easy. 

If I send the thank you now, I might be safe from response during the work day if she's sleeping?  (fear factor on my part)

I just can't quite click send yet, I'm so afraid of the words that will come next.  Positive or negative.  I'm nauseated, anxious. I'm going to be later than I planned starting my day ... .I just can't send the short thank you message yet.  So it will sit until after my shower at least.

Thanks to both of you.

[Tinkerbelle]

Hi,
My heart goes out to you.I have been on the receiving end of similar compulsive vile texts from our 32 year old DD many times... It has always been me since with her splitting my  husband is the good cop and I am the bad cop. It would be funny if not so  painful.The last tirade was about 2 weeks ago and it was similar to yours except she hopes I rot in a nursing home etc ( I am only 61 .) I have told her when she texts me vile, profane things I will block her and I do (usually for 2-3 hours)this is not to control her but to set some healthy boundaries and protect myself so I can get my emotions calmed and respond more calmly. She has not self injured or attemped suicide bur my fear is for her 4 and 5 year olds. Very hard but otherwise I am too upset to handle it.

In terms of a thank you, I too would say keep it simple and sincere. Maybe it can move her current thoughts into a more positive direction as you move into the holidays but do it when you have the time to handle the tirade that could come.
Prayers,
Tinkerbelle

[Only Human]

Hello MusicAce,

What did you decide about the thank you note?

~ OH

[Music Ace]

Thanks for asking OH - I sent the brief thank you note via text. And Tinkerbelle  - I agree with sending things when I'm prepared to handle whatever response (or lack thereof) that I get.

This was the wording I chose:  "Thanks so much for such thoughtful presents. It meant so much to me to receive them because it's exciting for the next stage of our lives.   All of our love."

I believe it was never received.

She sent us (her dad/my husband, her sister (our younger daughter) and myself) two well-written, thorough and very sad emails highlighting all the damage we've done, the threats of what is to come, and letting us know that she is changing her phone number and moving to ensure she takes the toxic out of her life.  One of which on December 24th had a subject line of "Merry Christmas"  ... .I was hopeful, but quickly recognized the tone.  I made it through that round - sad, but survived.

I still have contact with ONE friend, so I do know she is alive (as we know, this is quite often a genuine concern that others just don't quite get).

Then came heartbreaking texts at 5:43 am and 6:15 am on Christmas morning. She is in a cemetery (with 'friends'), trying to find the grave site of her dead husband (he, too, was 28).  She's anguished because she 'can't find him'.  Everything is in Ukranian, "where is he, I've checked everywhere."  The map that her dad sent with his plot highlighted back in April, just in case she was able to go one day, was no help to her ... .but she didn't blame anyone.  She just wanted to find his headstone and him. We (my husband/her dad) and I attended the private family graveside service with his sisters, parents, and one brother and one friend when he was buried back in March.  (His other youngest brother and our daughter did not/could not attend - she doesn't do funerals/graveyards/death ... .PERIOD - but she made it through all the rest of the proceedings, she just couldn't do the grave.) I wanted so badly to just drive there, hold her, help her find his plot - but I got the texts an hour after they were sent and I was 4 1/2 hours away by car.  I went back to bed after asking if she was at the cemetery now.  She responded 7 1/2 hours later with "I was this morning".

These texts came from an unknown number.  They were desperate, but not necessarily asking for my help, but still came to me ... .to MY phone number that she clearly still had access to.  She knows that we love her and would do anything for her, but perhaps she knows we have limits - limits she doesn't like, likely.  AND, perhaps doesn't even understand why we would have them.  An egocentric person would have a hard time understanding that the world doesn't revolve around them, when clearly it should.

We 'chatted' a bit - but only about her current issue of the not being able to find him earlier that morning.  I offered to ask her dad to get a better description to the grave site, but I'm not sure we can do a better job than the map.  I told her I didn't know what his headstone looked like, and I hadn't really thought about so much being in Ukranian (he wasn't Ukranian - but it's a Ukranian Catholic cemetery, his family is staunch Catholic). 

She hasn't reached out again, nor have I.  My birthday was the 27th. But I'm okay with no Merry Christmas or Happy Birthday messages - especially if what I would have received would have hurt me. And with her current focus, both her dad and I are solidly focused in the cross hairs.  I/We (my husband too) have both needed this break.  Once the NC had been accepted, it has been incredibly peaceful.  We just continue to carry on and have had lots of fun and laughter.  There is still a gaping hole, but we don't have to be right beside that hole continuously, we don't have to get sucked into it, stare at it longingly hoping that answers or solutions will come from the within the vastness - nor do we have to feel the need fill it.  We can acknowledge that it exists and then bloody well avoid it.

I will send her a New Years text.  I didn't have the heart to send a Merry Christmas one (when she was so desperate only a couple of hours earlier) ... .but I'll find the right words for New Years ... .or I won't.  As well, I have to 'play' like I don't know she has not moved (confirmed by my contact) and not acknowledge that I still have her new cell number (although it could be one of her 'friends'' numbers). 

I'll aim for less is more.  With no expectations of a response.  It will be the best I can do, and if she receives it/reads it/accepts it, she will know I still care to reach out.  She will hopefully continue to recognize I/we're here.

Once again - I succinct response LOL (gee - I've been accused of sarcasm AND wordiness - success on both counts once again!)

[Only Human]

This was the wording I chose:  "Thanks so much for such thoughtful presents. It meant so much to me to receive them because it's exciting for the next stage of our lives.   All of our love."

I believe it was never received.

Whether or not received, it was a lovely note.

It would have torn my heart out to receive the early morning texts about not being able to locate her husband's grave. That you were able to go back to sleep after sending a short text is a testament to your ability to care while letting go, taking care of you first and foremost.

She knows that we love her and would do anything for her, but perhaps she knows we have limits - limits she doesn't like, likely. 
... .

I/We (my husband too) have both needed this break.  Once the NC had been accepted, it has been incredibly peaceful.  We just continue to carry on and have had lots of fun and laughter. 

I'm so glad you and your husband have enjoyed some laughs, had fun together, enjoyed some peace. We all need respite and you're wise to take advantage of this time to practice self-care.

I will send her a New Years text. 

... .I'll aim for less is more.  With no expectations of a response.

I really like this, MusicAce, it's clear you are on the right path, keep it up 

What do you think about sending this greeting to her email, since she's told you she will change her number?

~ OH

[Music Ace]

Thanks for all the positives, OH. I'm thinking my non BPD brain appreciates validation too .

And yes, I'm planning to send the message via email. She said a while ago that when she blocks us on all other media, her email will be all that remains available. I'll respect her request to only communicate via email.

I'm thinking of responding something along the lines of... .

You mentioned that you were hoping to go to Brooklyn to celebrate New Year's. So Happy New Year no matter which country you get to spend it in.

Less is more, no expectations, a bit of humor, showing that I listened when she told me about her hope to go stateside for new years if she could find friends to go with her. Anything else I need to think about?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Thanks for all the positives, OH. I'm thinking my non BPD brain appreciates validation too .

Oh for sure, MusicAce, we all need validation, to be heard and understood. The need is more pronounced in pwBPD, yes, but the need is there for all of us. It's natural. When I'd tell my mom, "I can't stand my job, I'm so tired of playing babysitter to my staff, I can't take it anymore and am thinking of taking a demotion," she would tell me, "Be thankful you have a job!" My best friend, however, would tell me, "That sucks, OH, would you really want to demote?" Who do you think I talk to more often? 

I'm thinking of responding something along the lines of... .

You mentioned that you were hoping to go to Brooklyn to celebrate New Year's. So Happy New Year no matter which country you get to spend it in.

Less is more, no expectations, a bit of humor, showing that I listened when she told me about her hope to go stateside for new years if she could find friends to go with her. Anything else I need to think about?

How likely is it that she'll spend the holiday in NY? if very unlikely, it may be best to send a more generic, "Happy New Year! I love you," as the talk about NY could seem to her a sad reminder of yet another hope dashed.

What do you think?

~ OH

[Music Ace]

Much better choice of words, especially now that I have come to find out that NY is definitely not happening (much to my relief as her paranoid mom ).

But I truly wouldn't have thought about how I phrased it as potentially been seen as hopes dashed or just one more failure. In my mind, my self-serving world, I wanted to 'prove' that I did listen and I did hear her but also wanted her to recognize that I had been a good mom and appreciate that I had listened to her.  I still have WAY too many expectations... .even when I don't think I have them and I'm even making a conscious effort NOT TO HAVE THEM. I think it's clearly too ingrained.  Golly I have lots of work ahead. Lol

So ... .less, once again, is truly more. 
No ulterior motive.

Thanks, OH, for your input and insight. And friend empathy (commiseration) vs parental reality(bubble bursting) ... .friend for the win - all day, every day.  But I'm glad someone kicks me in the butt every once in a while to get my head out of the clouds or out of my own

[Music Ace]

Here's the message I decided on. But as I clicked send ... .I'm pretty sure my heart stopped.

SUBJECT LINE: Happy New Year
MESSAGE:

Sending you love.

Mom



This is definitely not the life I signed on for. I do not like living in fear and having to choose my words so carefully.  I'm the everready bunny, I go 4000 mph ... .undiagnosed ADHD has never been problematic before ... .at least not to me.  This continual reflection is beyond challenging, but the worst part is that the improvements/changes I feel I have made have definitely benefited my students/staff, may be benefiting me and my spouse, other child, family ... .but have not observedly benefited the child that brought me to see the need for these changes.  She's forced my hand but is not currently able/available to reap the benefits. Ugh

Someday  ... .maybe someday?

[once removed]

it takes effort over time to repair a relationship, assuming that the other party is at some point/some extent a willing participant.

change is definitely hard. i think a lot of us find that some of our ways got us here... .helped us navigate... .until they didnt. at that point, the need to change and adapt was kind of foisted upon us, unprepared.

the good news is that with practice, these changes really do become ingrained and natural. whenever i deal with difficult people, i tend to get pretty riled up, and its hard to focus. ive gotten to the point that i can step back, do no harm, reflect, and then decide on a mature, conflict resolution oriented approach... .very different than how i reacted years ago. it has paid off, and made my life more peaceful, and those difficult relationships more rewarding.

But I'm glad someone kicks me in the butt every once in a while to get my head out of the clouds or out of my own

i think one thing that will really help is to post in other members threads. i find that it keeps me learning and applying what im learning, in my own life, and how i might handle really challenging hypothetical situations... .keeps me in problem solving mode.

[Music Ace]

And this is her response  ... .but I'm going to have a good night and will have to decide if and when to respond. And then of course how and what if I decide to respond. And perhaps even more importantly is WHY would I respond (for whom? - my need to be guilt free or my wish for her to know she is loved and cared about?)

Her response:
I've got all the love I need in my life

Not part time people

I have cats and genuine people in my life

And we will most certainly have an amazing night and day

Four weeks of clon tapering. It's hard af and the seizures aren't fun but I've got my people here for me and the only thing that would make my overall life better is having Tim around.

[Music Ace]

i think one thing that will really help is to post in other members threads. i find that it keeps me learning and applying what im learning, in my own life, and how i might handle really challenging hypothetical situations... .keeps me in problem solving mode.

Once Removed- I hesitate to chime in on others posts for a couple of reasons.
1. I'm so very very wordy - even when I try not to be.
2. I still tend to be quite jaded.
3. I wonder if maintaining or attempting to maintain or even rebuilding what was (a relationship with my daughter) is worth it. I worry this negativity may influence any responses.
4. I don't feel like I have much to contribute just yet (I am so SO cautious to say anything for fear it is wrong or will offend or it will be taken the wrong way). I have been trained recently to not trust my ability to say or do anything right or helpful (go figure).
5. What people think of me matters WAY TOO MUCH.

But perhaps I will try. I have lots of reasons not to ... .but perhaps everyone else has reasons why they shouldn't or couldn't too. 

Thank you for your suggestion - although I can't promise, I will aim for a contribution every time I come on - to keep pushing my learning and/or reinforcing forward.

[Only Human]

Baby steps, Music Ace. Her response is lacking the blame and long list of ways she feels damaged by you. Yes, the hellfire is replaced with passive-aggressive statements, but the lines of communication are still open. I see that as a step in the right direction.

One of the first things I learned here is, before we can make things better, we have to stop making them worse. Would you agree that you are not making things worse by reaching out in the way that you have been?

This is a good read:

A 3 Minute Lesson on Ending Conflict

Let us know what you think.

I'm curious, in her 2-page email, you mentioned that she mentioned threats of what's to come. What were those threats?

It took a long time for your relationship to get where it is today, Music Ace. It will take a long time to turn it around. Hang in there.

I'm glad you're here with us, learning and growing. Happy New Year to you and yours!

~ OH

[Only Human]

Thank you for your suggestion - although I can't promise, I will aim for a contribution every time I come on - to keep pushing my learning and/or reinforcing forward.

 

[JeanGenie]

Hi Music Ace!

Just wanted to say I can totally relate to how you feel about posting in other people's posts! I can't seem to get the hang of the quote box at all (maybe because I am using an old IPad?), but your number's 4 and 5 particularly sound familiar (well - all of your points actually!).

I have never been on a forum at all before coming here. I don't do social media to any extent as it feels too exposing to me (all through my younger life I was very social-phobic).  But this site is gradually increasing my confidence, and like you - I hope to be able to contribute positively for others more in the future.

I think even if we don't think we have many 'words of wisdom' to offer to a specific issue (due to perhaps lack of knowledge or experience), just popping by sometimes to offer words of support may be just as useful. I know people have done that for me already when I have just needed it.

Having said that - I think I too am very 'wordy'! But when you came and posted in my thread, I was so grateful for your input, time and effort. I don't think people mind us being wordy, they may just take a little section of what we say and relate to it, or take something from some of it?

I wish you all better things for the New Year. I too am trying to think of how to respond to my daughter's last enslaught. For the moment I have not responded at all, which she will see as me being a coward, or not caring. But all the years that I have tried my hardest to address and JADE to all her responses have not helped, so I need to change my way of doing things and hope that may eventually work out a bit better. She only communicates now by email (changed her number, moved and not told me where). When she has finished collecting all her stuff form me, that she says, will be it.

She is now threatening to change her email. I do not know anyone who is in contact with her, I feel thankful for you that you have at least one of her friends who can tell you that she's ok/where she is etc. When my daughter went NC before, I just used to think 'I don't even know if she is alive or not'. My D has also informed me that she has changed her next of kin from me to one of her old friends (a 'nice' drug dealer), so with her having a new phone, I do not think anyone will have my number if anything were to happen to her. She has obviously told all her old friends how 'awful' I am, so they will no doubt not even bother to try and contact me.

I do think less detail in my responses maybe better. There is less 'ammunition' for her to latch onto then. It is all very sad.

I hope that you have a good day and look forward to reading your posts!

Big   to you x