4 contacts, 1 week

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all.

I have had 4 contacts from my ex in the space of a week. The contact today was horrible, blatant use of my son to get money out of me. A no win situation that I felt terrible about but that's the whole point right? She was using my son's account to message me, was it him? Was it her? I would put my life on the fact it was HER because my son would not talk to me like that. It was like the "good old days". Very polite but quickly turned aggressive once I used the word "no". I explained what was what and then came the self entitlement and demands. I started to write a reply and then I thought, I'm not being spoken to like this, I do not deserve that crap. Then I thought about boundaries and what not so decided to write a "I'm not putting up with this" message but stopped and thought about not having to explain myself. There was around 3 further messages I just ignored. I feel like crap but at the same time fairly proud, I'm going in the right direction, just thinking out loud

LT.

[Longterm]

Hi all.

I have had 4 contacts from my ex in the space of a week. The contact today was horrible, blatant use of my son to get money out of me. A no win situation that I felt terrible about but that's the whole point right? She was using my son's account to message me, was it him? Was it her? I would put my life on the fact it was HER because my son would not talk to me like that. It was like the "good old days". Very polite but quickly turned aggressive once I used the word "no". I explained what was what and then came the self entitlement and demands. I started to write a reply and then I thought, I'm not being spoken to like this, I do not deserve that crap. Then I thought about boundaries and what not so decided to write a "I'm not putting up with this" message but stopped and thought about not having to explain myself. There was around 3 further messages I just ignored. I feel like crap but at the same time fairly proud, I'm going in the right direction, just thinking out loud

LT.

[I Am Redeemed]

Any way to change your son's password so she can't do that in the future?

Good job thinking before responding, remembering boundaries and not JADE-ing! 

I know the contact can be emotionally rattling and it's easy to go on the defensive very quickly. I still have some physical reactions when I get messages from my ex, even though I haven't responded in months. He also uses an account in our son's name to try to message me- even though our son is 3 years old, and it's obviously not him

[Longterm]

  IAR.

That is the only contact I have with my son. The password would need to be changed his end. It's ironic really because he has been banned from talking to me but today was fine?

  I still have some physical reactions when I get messages from my ex, even though I haven't responded in months

I'm right there with you. I did 14mths without seeing or speaking with her but any contact via the kids and I would get a tight chest and would visibly shake. I did this again today. I think that's the CPTSD. I was thinking about it just and there was no reason whatsoever to contact, non.

  He also uses an account in our son's name to try to message me- even though our son is 3 years old, and it's obviously not him 

I mean this is so puzzling isn't it? Do they not think that the other (IAR or LT) would surely see it's not the child that is communicating? I don't think it crosses their mind if I'm honest because the contact is the important thing, the need for a reaction is paramount and they don't care how they get it. The reaction is OURS to give though and that's the important thing.

LT.

[I Am Redeemed]

I'm right there with you. I did 14mths without seeing or speaking with her but any contact via the kids and I would get a tight chest and would visibly shake. I did this again today. I think that's the CPTSD. I was thinking about it just and there was no reason whatsoever to contact, non.

Yes, I think it's totally the CPTSD thing. It's an automatic reaction. It doesn't happen all the time for me anymore, but it does when the messages go into blaming/accusing because I feel the knee jerk reflex to defend myself.

I mean this is so puzzling isn't it? Do they not think that the other (IAR or LT) would surely see it's not the child that is communicating? I don't think it crosses their mind if I'm honest because the contact is the important thing, the need for a reaction is paramount and they don't care how they get it. The reaction is OURS to give though and that's the important thing.

LT.

In my case, he knows that I know it isn't our child, but I think he uses that account because he uses all possible outlets to try to contact me (including a Bible study app, of all things) and I think he also thinks that seeing my son's name and a picture of him will melt my heart and manipulate me into responding simply because he is my son's father. He is the one who created that account and I think it was simply to promote the image of himself as "loving father".

It is all about the contact. I guess maybe initially she thought she might fool you, but likely by the time she lost it and started dysregulating, it didn't matter any more.

Is she blocking you from access to your son? Any developments on that? I know you had posted about it on Family Law, I think.

[Longterm]

  Yes, I think it's totally the CPTSD thing. It's an automatic reaction. It doesn't happen all the time for me anymore, but it does when the messages go into blaming/accusing because I feel the knee jerk reflex to defend myself.

It happens to me all the time, I cannot stop it, it is horrible. It's probably worse when she is nice, it scares the crap out of me because I'm left waiting to find out why she's being nice. I remember a while back I got an email where she was acting like we were best friends, it was not a nice feeling at all. Due to talking with Mary I'm starting to think my ex is a lot more deceitful and manipulative than I first thought, I think this goes deeper than BPD.

  seeing my son's name and a picture of him will melt my heart and manipulate me into responding

You see what I'm saying don't you. He is all she has left now, my only weakness she can exploit and she will not hesitate in using him, it's disgusting to even say that isn't it?

  Is she blocking you from access to your son? Any developments on that?

Still no developments. There is still a child protection investigation on going but he is living with a sex offender so ya know...CS must deem it acceptable? I find it disgusting. I am making preparations though to gain access and take it from there. I know I won't be denied access because she literally has nothing on me and she knows I won't be denied access so why not just let him see his dad? Because that would just take the "fun" out of it. She enjoys the power, the making me squirm and suffer. It's disturbing really when I think back to the last time we spoke. She spoke down to me like I was a toddler and laughed at me. She either doesn't see my boy suffering or she does and doesn't care.

LT.

[I Am Redeemed]

I think the physical reactions subsided for me a lot once I worked through some issues in therapy and was able to let go of the guilt. I still feel it creep up every now and then, but I can effectively dispell it with self-talk now. The trauma-focused therapy was very instrumental in that. I am eager to start it again; just waiting to see if I get approved for insurance or else I will have to pay myself. Not easy with my finances the way they are now, especially with the added expense of childcare that I have just incurred. However, since taking a break from therapy for the last three months, I found that the last messages I got (which were full of blame and also some paranoid ramblings) produced an anxiety attack that made me nauseous.

I think I view all contact from my ex as an attempt on his part to "get something". If he is being nice, it's because he is feeling that talking to me as if nothing ever happened is what will work to get me to contact him. If he is blaming me or accusing me, it's because he is feeling angry and in victim mode (he pretty much lives there) and feels that throwing shade at me will get me to respond. I see all his messages as attempts to elicit a response and/or invoke some type of emotion in me, whether that is guilt, anger, sadness, fear, etc.- all the elements of "FOG" and more.

My ex has traits of other pd's besides BPD, also, including all the criteria for Paranoid Personality Disorder and some of the anti-social traits. Some of the fear and anxiety I feel surrounding him comes up with no contact at all- I just know what he has been capable of, and also I don't know what he might be capable of (he has surprised me before with his level of violence and vindictiveness). He was extremely violent towards me and a few other women. I still look in the back seat of my van before I get in it just to make sure he isn't there.

The other day I had someone call me at work (on a Monday night after 5 pm) and I didn't know who it was, so I refused to answer the phone. I had a CPTSD anxiety reaction then, too, and it turned out to be someone calling me about the application I put in for assistance with daycare (I wasn't expecting that call after business hours). My first thought was it was either him on the phone or someone he put up to calling for him, and I could not emotionally handle taking the call.

I think you will find after working out some things in therapy that you will have a reduction in your reactions to her messages. It may take a while, and like I said, it hasn't completely gone away for me, but it did get better. I hope that when I resume therapy it will continue to get better. I hate that another person is able to provoke such a reaction in me physically, mentally, and emotionally and it seems that it is instant and I have no time to even do anything to stop it. It's like the reaction you have when you are driving and someone almost runs into you- you can't stop your heart from jumping in your throat, it just happens.

[Longterm]

I think the physical reactions subsided for me a lot once I worked through some issues in therapy and was able to let go of the guilt. I still feel it creep up every now and then, but I can effectively dispell it with self-talk now. The trauma-focused therapy was very instrumental in that. 

Hmmm, maybe this is something I can talk through with Mary then. It is pretty embarrassing to be a grown man that is petrified of a small fragile woman. I'm sure I've mentioned it before but it's not a physical thing, it's a mental thing. I think it is because I know she has the ability to inflict huge amounts of damage by the flick of a switch, because she has many times before. When there is contact it affects me for several days, nights sweats come back and the insomnia is particularly horrible, not too mention the mental gymnastics. I am at the drs soon so I may discuss with him going back onto long term anxiety meds. I was on them for around 7yrs before following a work accident but felt like I needed to carry on with them, I think I know the reason why now. I stopped taking them a while back now but I think I may need to reconsider. I actually did an anxiety test at work tonight and it says I am severe. The weekend was pretty horrible and I'm glad to be back at work. My friend suggested I listen to some nature meditation videos so I'm going to try that too.

 I am eager to start it again; just waiting to see if I get approved for insurance or else I will have to pay myself. Not easy with my finances the way they are now, especially with the added expense of childcare that I have just incurred. However, since taking a break from therapy for the last three months, I found that the last messages I got (which were full of blame and also some paranoid ramblings) produced an anxiety attack that made me nauseous.  

How does that work? If you dont mind me asking. You have to be approved for health insurance, is that what your saying IAR? I'm not trying to sound ignorant but I honestly have no idea how it works. In the UK you go see dr and they refer you to whoever and it's all free, the only downside is waiting times. Besides this you can go to private clinics but they cost a lot.

So theres a link between your reaction and being in therapy. It may be beneficial you going back to therapy then if possible, maybe it was that extra bit of support that was helping you cope with it better?

  I think I view all contact from my ex as an attempt on his part to "get something". If he is being nice, it's because he is feeling that talking to me as if nothing ever happened is what will work to get me to contact him. If he is blaming me or accusing me, it's because he is feeling angry and in victim mode (he pretty much lives there) and feels that throwing shade at me will get me to respond. I see all his messages as attempts to elicit a response and/or invoke some type of emotion in me, whether that is guilt, anger, sadness, fear, etc.- all the elements of "FOG" and more. 

I can sure relate to that. I always feel that my ex contacts when she needs something or when things are going crap for her. I think her self entitlement boils down to her believing I am her property and I will do her bidding when she sees fit, I am her b**** in her head. When things are crap I am just a "thing" to direct her anger towards, completely deserving of course.

  My ex has traits of other pd's besides BPD, also, including all the criteria for Paranoid Personality Disorder and some of the anti-social traits. Some of the fear and anxiety I feel surrounding him comes up with no contact at all- I just know what he has been capable of, and also I don't know what he might be capable of (he has surprised me before with his level of violence and vindictiveness). He was extremely violent towards me and a few other women. I still look in the back seat of my van before I get in it just to make sure he isn't there. 

I've never looked into the paranoid PD but I've recently come to realise my ex has all traits of ASPD, well except being able to maintain long term relationships, looking back though it may have been my naivety that was maintaining it. Yes, you said before about his violence. No woman should have to put up with that and you have my sympathy. There was violence with my ex too, not a lot but I have been in hospital twice, I too worry what extremes she may go to.

  The other day I had someone call me at work (on a Monday night after 5 pm) and I didn't know who it was, so I refused to answer the phone. I had a CPTSD anxiety reaction then, too, and it turned out to be someone calling me about the application I put in for assistance with daycare (I wasn't expecting that call after business hours). My first thought was it was either him on the phone or someone he put up to calling for him, and I could not emotionally handle taking the call. 

I dread checking my phone everytime I wake, it is horrible and I wished I did not have one. The last time she emailed I dissociated right there and then, I had my phone in my hand at the time, I had to remind myself to breathe. The last text I sent her, I could not control my hands and struggled to type it. What we both just wrote pretty much says it all.

  I hate that another person is able to provoke such a reaction in me physically, mentally, and emotionally and it seems that it is instant and I have no time to even do anything to stop it. It's like the reaction you have when you are driving and someone almost runs into you- you can't stop your heart from jumping in your throat, it just happens. 
 

Yes it does just happen and it is horrible, I feel as though I have no control and like yourself I hate the fact that somebody has that much control over my emotions knowing that they have already taken enough of me.

LT.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hmmm, maybe this is something I can talk through with Mary then. It is pretty embarrassing to be a grown man that is petrified of a small fragile woman. I'm sure I've mentioned it before but it's not a physical thing, it's a mental thing. I think it is because I know she has the ability to inflict huge amounts of damage by the flick of a switch, because she has many times before.

Yes, it's the psychological harm that is so scary. It's the memory of harm caused and the fear of more harm to come. That is where therapy is so crucial, because if you have a good therapist who can really help you work through the traumatic stuff then it doesn't hold the same power over you anymore.

How does that work? If you dont mind me asking. You have to be approved for health insurance, is that what your saying IAR? I'm not trying to sound ignorant but I honestly have no idea how it works. In the UK you go see dr and they refer you to whoever and it's all free, the only downside is waiting times. Besides this you can go to private clinics but they cost a lot.

Oh, don't get me started on the state of health insurance in the US ! Most people only get health insurance if their employers offer it. The employer pays a percentage of the cost and then the employee pays a percentage of the cost just to have the insurance. In many cases the insurance is still not affordable. For instance, when I was working full time at my job, it cost me $260/month just for insurance coverage. It was cheaper for me to just pay for a walk in clinic visit if I got sick (that costs about $80 to $100). Depending on what kind of insurance it is and how good the coverage is, you will pay a certain amount when you go to the doctor. Some treatments/tests/medications are not covered by insurance or have to be approved. An insurance company may choose to only cover two weeks of a residential mental health treatment center, for instance, and if you can't pay out of pocket for the cost, you just have to leave.

Each state has some form of insurance that certain low-income families may qualify for- this is what's known as Medicaid. I applied a couple of months ago and was denied, even though I am a single mom with a child that I support. My income was over the limit of $1329/month. I recently applied again as my income dropped (I live off my tips as a server, and we are always significantly less busy in the summer months). I am hoping to get approved. I had to send in check stubs and all type of other verifications of my rent, utility cost, child care cost, etc. S3 and I have been without insurance of any kind for two years. I had to pay out-of-pocket for his last checkup.

So theres a link between your reaction and being in therapy. It may be beneficial you going back to therapy then if possible, maybe it was that extra bit of support that was helping you cope with it better?

Oh, absolutely. In just a few months she saw progress in me that I didn't realize in myself. Gradually the sessions became less and less about my ex and more about me. I still had/have issues, but the focus came off of him, his problems, the damage he caused and how caught up I was in trying to figure it all out, and became focused on me, immediate issues that I had (anxiety, feeling overwhelmed and stressed) and we uncovered some of the roots of my low self-esteem and my tendency to let others run over me and/or feel responsibility for others that is not mine to bear.

I can sure relate to that. I always feel that my ex contacts when she needs something or when things are going crap for her. I think her self entitlement boils down to her believing I am her property and I will do her bidding when she sees fit, I am her b**** in her head. When things are crap I am just a "thing" to direct her anger towards, completely deserving of course.

Exactly how I feel. My ex's mother actually told me that he views me as his "property"

've never looked into the paranoid PD but I've recently come to realise my ex has all traits of ASPD, well except being able to maintain long term relationships, looking back though it may have been my naivety that was maintaining it. Yes, you said before about his violence. No woman should have to put up with that and you have my sympathy. There was violence with my ex too, not a lot but I have been in hospital twice, I too worry what extremes she may go to.

Have you ever looked through the library at the Psychology questions and answers section? There are some comparisons in there of BPD to various other PD's/conditions. Here is one on BPD vs ASPD: Comparison: BPD vs ASPD

and one on PPD vs BPD: Comparison: BPD vs PPD.

It's pretty interesting to read about.

[Longterm]

 

  if you have a good therapist who can really help you work through the traumatic stuff then it doesn't hold the same power over you anymore. 

That right there is crucial for me. The games have officially begun and I have received threats today, triangulating and gas lighting in full force right now. It is imperative I lessen the hold she has on my emotions and I'm thankful I can talk this out in a few days with Mary.

  don't get me started on the state of health insurance in the US 

I find it very hard to grasp how that all works, it sounds very complicated and worrying. We have insurances for work here but that is if you have an accident etc. This way you can get paid for time off. It is optional though. Any emergencies or health conditions we just go to a hospital, Dr or walk in centre. There is no cost whatsoever and I understand why foreigners come here for operations and treatment. The NHS really is a godsend but at breaking point and this is why appointments can be so long. I had 5 surgeries after my accident and waited 5mths each time, it was a long process but I'm thankful to even be in work, let alone stand up. The NHS is a good thing.

  Gradually the sessions became less and less about my ex and more about me.

I bet that felt good, to talk about your own needs and wants for a change and I'm guessing that's what helped you to react less to him. I have read so much about the need to shift focus onto ourselves, it is just so alien to me, you give me hope though 

  Have you ever looked through the library at the Psychology questions and answers section?

I have just had a brief look and I will definitely be doing more reading over there. It is all so confusing though don't you think? I have finished reading Mary's book and have started reading it again. Malignant narcissism fits like a glove, it is uncanny and I have all sorts going through my head right now. The ASPD fits too, not to mention the BPD. There is a reason Mary suggested that book. I'm starting to feel like I am still in huge amounts of denial regarding my exes behaviour, maybe all the tears are coming from somebody who is not simply reacting, but from somebody who knows exactly what she is doing? The sadism is present, I have seen it with me and also with my daughter, my friend has seen it too. Anyway, I'm waffling on. There is something wrong, there's no doubt about that and that's the key thing I guess.

Thanks for sharing those links.

LT.

[Harri]

Hi Longterm.  Joining in here with you and IAR.  

I too have c-PTSD and have been in trauma therapy.  Like IAR said Mary can help you with developing grounding skills and techniques that will help you.

You mentioned you might try meditation and I think that is great.  Given my anxiety and even my dissociation, I found things like walking meditation to be more useful and doable for me.  Also sometimes mindfulness works better with anxiety reduction and management for some people.  Mindfulness can be applied to anything really, even work tasks where you focus on each movement, sensation etc as you experience it while trying to clear your mind of anything else.  Walking meditation/mindfulness involves being more conscious of each step, the feel of the ground/floor, how each muscle in your thing, calf, foot, toes works and feels.   One of my favorite times to do it is while washing dishes.  I love the feel of the water, the dishes, the scent of the soap, etc.  Mindfulness can also, in time, be used to get comfortable sitting with uncomfortable feelings and looking at them in a more neutral way as if an observer.

Check out:  Triggering, Mindfulness and Wise Mind

[Longterm]

  Harri

  You mentioned you might try meditation and I think that is great.

I too think this would be very good for me. At the end of Mary's book there was suggested YouTube channels to watch but also meditation links and it was something I plan to do start the weekend. I am very forgetful at present but I'm pretty sure the author suggested 40mins a day meditating. She also mentioned getting in touch with nature and this is probably why I have sought the outdoors since things imploded. I was thinking I could maybe try and fit it in daily but it means being more regimented in my daily schedule, weekends are fine but it's work/sleep in the week.

I wash plenty of dishes, I am fairly positive I have shown the kids how to do it but they don't seem to grasp it (don't want to more like)  but Yes, I could integrate meditation and mindfulness with other activities, either indoors or out.

I took a lot from that post, thank you 

LT.

[I Am Redeemed]

Harri,

My former therapist taught me that mindfulness exercise. She called it a "body scan", and she had me tighten each area of muscle before relaxing and concentrating on nothing else but that particular area and how it felt. It did work to calm me. She also recommended practicing mindfulness while driving (not the body scan part, just bringing thoughts to the here and now- she said to focus on what you are doing in the present (i.e, the street in front of you, the cars around you, the steering wheel, etc) and not let your thoughts wander to anything but the present moment- if they do wander, just recognize it and bring them back to the here and now.
 
The body scan thing is something I can do anywhere- in line at the grocery store, sitting on the couch while having morning coffee, in the car before I go in to work. It doesn't have to take very long- ten minutes, even five can have a calming effect.

[Harri]

   about the kids washing dishes.  I think it is a hard sell.  I never liked washing dishes until I got a job working as a 'kitchen aid' (aka dishwasher/potato peeler) in a nursing home while going to school. 

The thing I like about mindfulness is that you can do it anywhere like IAR said and yes, even a few minutes at a time can help.  Walking in nature sounds perfect too.

LT, have you had a chance to try this week?

You might find this article helpful to read:  Managing Emotional Flashbacks I don't know if emotional flashbacks applies to your experiences or where Mary will take you with this, but some of the things listed can help you when you are caught up in the emotional and physical reactions you have described.  If it does not apply, please disregard. 

Are you still having contact with your ex or has that eased?

[Longterm]

Hi Harri.

  LT, have you had a chance to try this week?
 

No yet no, my head is literally spaghetti right now dealing with everything that is going on, it is utter madness at present. I am still planning to begin the weekend though.

  I don't know if emotional flashbacks applies to your experiences 

Oh yes unfortunately. I do plan to talk to Mary about this tomorrow. Thanks for the link, I'll have a look 

  Are you still having contact with your ex or has that eased?

Not directly no, but believe me when I say she is trying very hard to get a reaction out of me.

LT.