Getting past my own bitterness, I am part of the problem

[Parents! Get help here!]

I spend a lot of time in the "Why me" realm in dealing with our BPD Daughter.  She has moved back home along with her son.  My wife and I really just want to be alone and not have to worry about raising another young child (which may ultimately happen).  It isn't just about sharing our house.  We gladly take in my brother when he travels from the west coast to visit for a couple of months, but then he contributes.  She refuses to clean up after herself.  She wants to party every weekend and leave us with the baby.  She "can't" work because she is the "busy mom of a toddler".

So, this builds up.  I recognize many of her traits in myself as I was a teenager, but somehow, I managed to push through them.  I went through periods of anger and major defiance.  But, I basically had to raise myself as my parents were pretty much MIA my entire childhood.  So, it was either learn how to survive or starve.  I am guessing that this did not make me the most empathetic parent that ever lived.  Even now, I will use sarcasm to make a point (probably not helpful).  Today, we noticed that an oven mitt was left on the driveway.  My wife asked why it was out there.  Our daughter said that she was using it for a spell.  I rolled my eyes and said, "At least it was for something important."  My sarcastic reflex is so strong that I often just have to hold my tongue in most conversations.  But the things she says can just be so outrageous. 

She had moved out for 10 years, moving to the UK.  Those 10 years were amazing for us.  We were able to repair much of the damage that was the relationship with our family by her.  When she came back 7 months pregnant, my panic attacks returned and we were, once again, shunned by the rest of the family.  I really can't blame them.  She has stirred up a lot of trouble via social media and in person.  I often work from home and have had to give up my home office for her bedroom and can't even work in the living room because she won't respect that I need to be on the phone.  So, I am sequestered in the master bedroom to work.  Even then, she will walk right in uninvited or try to pass off the baby.  So, yeah, I am resentful and it bleeds over.  She doesn't seem to have a problem closing her bedroom door and playing video games while her baby cries in the other room (expecting us to tend to the baby).  We have started texting her to let her know that the baby needs attention instead of taking care of him for her.  Obviously, she hears him since he is in the next room, but waits for us to inform her.  If she parties all night, she just expects to be able to nap all day the next day, so we have started making plans to go out the day after she parties.  Then I start finding myself being sarcastic again about parental responsibilities.

OK, enough rant.  I am trying to learn from this group to be more reflective.  Thanks for being patient and listening to my ramble.

[DadFromFlorida]

I spend a lot of time in the "Why me" realm in dealing with our BPD Daughter.  She has moved back home along with her son.  My wife and I really just want to be alone and not have to worry about raising another young child (which may ultimately happen).  It isn't just about sharing our house.  We gladly take in my brother when he travels from the west coast to visit for a couple of months, but then he contributes.  She refuses to clean up after herself.  She wants to party every weekend and leave us with the baby.  She "can't" work because she is the "busy mom of a toddler".

So, this builds up.  I recognize many of her traits in myself as I was a teenager, but somehow, I managed to push through them.  I went through periods of anger and major defiance.  But, I basically had to raise myself as my parents were pretty much MIA my entire childhood.  So, it was either learn how to survive or starve.  I am guessing that this did not make me the most empathetic parent that ever lived.  Even now, I will use sarcasm to make a point (probably not helpful).  Today, we noticed that an oven mitt was left on the driveway.  My wife asked why it was out there.  Our daughter said that she was using it for a spell.  I rolled my eyes and said, "At least it was for something important."  My sarcastic reflex is so strong that I often just have to hold my tongue in most conversations.  But the things she says can just be so outrageous. 

She had moved out for 10 years, moving to the UK.  Those 10 years were amazing for us.  We were able to repair much of the damage that was the relationship with our family by her.  When she came back 7 months pregnant, my panic attacks returned and we were, once again, shunned by the rest of the family.  I really can't blame them.  She has stirred up a lot of trouble via social media and in person.  I often work from home and have had to give up my home office for her bedroom and can't even work in the living room because she won't respect that I need to be on the phone.  So, I am sequestered in the master bedroom to work.  Even then, she will walk right in uninvited or try to pass off the baby.  So, yeah, I am resentful and it bleeds over.  She doesn't seem to have a problem closing her bedroom door and playing video games while her baby cries in the other room (expecting us to tend to the baby).  We have started texting her to let her know that the baby needs attention instead of taking care of him for her.  Obviously, she hears him since he is in the next room, but waits for us to inform her.  If she parties all night, she just expects to be able to nap all day the next day, so we have started making plans to go out the day after she parties.  Then I start finding myself being sarcastic again about parental responsibilities.

OK, enough rant.  I am trying to learn from this group to be more reflective.  Thanks for being patient and listening to my ramble.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

Hi DadfromFlorida
Welcome to the group. I am glad you found us. It sounds like you are in a miserable situation. You say you are part of the problem. That is good news because it means that you can change part of the problem.  What is it you want to change about yourself? How can we support you in doing that?
Hugs
Faith

[DadFromFlorida]

After reading Walking on Eggshells and many of the posts here, I realize that we don't have it as bad as many others.  At least our BPD Daughter has never used drugs.  She is very sensitive to medication is the only reason. Having a place to vent has already helped a little.  But, I would love to learn to respond to her without being judgemental or sarcastic.  The problem is that she purposely will throw verbal jabs at us or provide too much information about her sex life in order to shock us.  That totally disarms me and I just close down and want to get away from her.  I also consider myself to be ultra-rational, so when she starts talking about how she is a witch, my first reaction is to be dismissive.  I want to be helpful, but I don't want to appear to agree with her on this stuff or enable it.  Although her money spell works really good, just in the opposite fashion.  It seems to suck money right out of us quite efficiently.   

[FaithHopeLove]

But, I would love to learn to respond to her without being judgemental or sarcastic. 

It seems to me like you are using sarcasm as a weapon. When you do that the other person often feels dismissed and invalidated, a person with BPD even more so. I wonder if this article will help you to better understand how your daughter might feel when you turn up the snark. See if it makes sense.

Don't Be Invalidating

[Lollypop]

Hi DadFF

I join Faith in welcoming you!  

I would love to learn to respond to her without being judgemental or sarcastic.

A tough one I know. Even a raised eyebrow was enough to tip my son into a negative reaction. I smile when I give this advice to you: be light as a fairy. I learnt how to say little and listen more. Any conversation started by me was about trivial matters, like the weather. I stopped talking to my son about problems.

The problem is that she purposely will throw verbal jabs at us or provide too much information about her sex life in order to shock us.  That totally disarms me and I just close down and want to get away from her.

You’re not on your own. My jaw used to drop open. My son would overshare. In my early days, I didn’t know how to respond correctly so learnt the best thing I could do was say nothing or just Oh. Now I’ve better interaction skills and personal limits I can decide if I want to partake. His oversharing has got better with us but I’m sure it’s a problem with others particularly when he’s stimulated. He can’t help the way he behaves. I can change how I react to him.

I also consider myself to be ultra-rational, so when she starts talking about how she is a witch, my first reaction is to be dismissive.  I want to be helpful, but I don't want to appear to agree with her on this stuff or enable it.

I totally get this. My son has certain ideas that seem very immature. He’s like a toddler in some quite distinct ways. He’s super sensitive, has a sense of entitlement and feels his extra special. This feeling of difference is important to him. He has wacky ideas about supplements.

Your daughter is an adult and is responsible for herself and her baby. For her to behave like an adult she needs to be treated as one. Gently with love and validation.

You need better boundaries (these are 6 feet thick concrete and always come with consequences - you will not hit me kind of thing) and limits which are flexible and more about daily living.

I got strategic and clever. Instead of keep on financing him and hoping he was different I changed my approach.

I learnt the interaction skills I needed to improve my relationship with my son, and listened to him most of the time so I understood him better. Then I got myself a 3 point plan so I could focus and not sweat the small stuff.

I offered free bed and board but gave my son no money. Not for cigs, phone, or anything. He wouldn’t look for a job, refused treatment and benefits. He resisted being an adult. What could we do? Does this sound familiar? We changed approach and left it up to him to work through his problems while I provided some stability.

We weren’t prepared to finance my sons life and his bad choices. We were prepared to emotionally support him while we gave him responsibility for his life. Every problem that arose, I’d ask “is this my problem?” No, then I’d place it gently in his lap.

How old is your daughter? How does she financially support herself?

What do you and your wife want to happen?

I suggest It’s time to take back control, gently. Each of our situations are unique, this is me and not you. I hope you gain something from my experiences.

LP

[DadFromFlorida]

I join Faith in welcoming you!

Thank you.  This type of forum is a much-needed device as I am a hot mess under a stable facade.

A tough one I know. Even a raised eyebrow was enough to tip my son into a negative reaction. I smile when I give this advice to you: be light as a fairy. I learnt how to say little and listen more. Any conversation started by me was about trivial matters, like the weather. I stopped talking to my son about problems.

I am taking in as much information as possible, using reflection, not invalidating, empathy, etc.  We are making good progress in a very short time.  But, it is also during a fairly peaceful phase.  Recently, I was able to frame her complaints about money problems that helped her to grasp that it really isn't that bad.  She (for now) only has food stamps and a little temporary cash assistance, but she has no rent, car payment or any obligations or debt at all.  I told her that millions of people (including myself) would love to be in her position.  I told her that if she were to get a job, the money would represent pure disposable income.  How many people can say that?  It was a breakthrough.  She is going on an interview today for a seasonal job.

How old is your daughter? How does she financially support herself?

Our daughter is 31 and her son will be 2 in October.  Her son has a defibrillator in his chest so is special needs.  He was approved for SSI last week, so she will be getting 2 years of back pay plus almost $800/month going forward.  This is great news as I see so many people getting rejected for SSI.  Her son's health has improved so much, I was really skeptical if he would get it at all. 

What do you and your wife want to happen?

Now that she will be getting some cash, we want her to use it to get a place of her own.  In that way, we can enjoy our relationship at a short distance and be available to help our grandson without being acting parents.  When she moves out, we plan to sell our house and buy a travel trailer.  We can cut our expenses this way and be more capable of financially assisting when needed.  We lived in a travel trailer before and really enjoyed it.  After my brother had a heart attack 3 years ago and lost his wife to sepsis, we decided to buy a house again so he could stay with us for a while.  He recovered and got his own RV and started traveling.  We had a few seconds of alone time when our daughter announced that she was getting divorced and was 7 months pregnant and needed help getting from the UK to home.

The travel trailer is our goal for retirement and it is small enough to dissuade anyone else moving in (boundaries).

Thanks again for the feedback.

[PeaceMom]

Dad,
Lolly has given really good descriptions to us all about helping DS become independent while strengthening their bond in a healthy way. You might want to check out her posts.
I wanted to comment on the use of sarcasm. PwBPD are laser equipped to detect sarcasm. It’s uncanny. Not even an ounce of sarcasm slips by them. I’ve used it as a weapon when I feel something should be glaringly obvious to my DD. I did a NonViolent Communication online study where I learned the Greek definition of “sarcasm” is “to Tear Flesh”. Ouch! That is a visual that really made me stop and think. I try to slow down and formulate a response that is honest and heartfelt. Sarcasm is rarely heartfelt.
What do you think?

[DadFromFlorida]

RE: Sarcasm.  I get it.  I am doing my best to curtail it.  I have recognized that it is not helpful for our relationship.  Sometimes I slip.  53 years of being this way makes it hard to change overnight.  I suspect that it will always exist to some degree as it is part of my developed personality.

[PeaceMom]

Dad Fla,
Things can change fairly quickly when we stop reacting to their crazy talk and start responding in a thoughtful slow methodical way. I feel like my DD19 udbpd is always a firecracker that anyone or anything can ignite, but I’m choosing not to be that spark. My daily goal is not to let her pull me into the mud wrestle pit.
Glad you have joined us and that’s terrific about your daughter get much needed government assistance.

[Lollypop]

Hi fla

Now that she will be getting some cash, we want her to use it to get a place of her own.  In that way, we can enjoy our relationship at a short distance and be available to help our grandson without being acting parents.  When she moves out, we plan to sell our house and buy a travel trailer.

You’ve got a plan!  And it sounds like a good one.

For us, a time deadline would not have been useful. We had to go at sons speed. He was very depressed. His main problem was he couldn’t manage his finances so that took a long while with baby steps. He was easy overloaded when there was more than one thing going on. For instance, getting himself into a steady work rhythm and learning to cope with work commitments is one big thing in itself. I didn’t want to have to finance him once he was independent because we have our own life and plans, plus a younger son who is still in education. It look a lot of patience and looking back perhaps I could have been more confident in his abilities. His slow move to independence was in phases.

are you just going one step at a time or do you and your wife have a preferred timeline?

She is going on an interview today for a seasonal job.

How did it go?

LP

[livednlearned]

The fact you are so self-reflective and aware of your own qualities is impressive. It bodes well for you 

You are also aware of the need for boundaries, which is no small thing.

It sounds like you want her to get a job so she has money to spend on herself?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[DadFromFlorida]

are you just going one step at a time or do you and your wife have a preferred timeline?

  Of course the temptation would be to say as soon as she gets the money, but I think I will encourage her to get financial planning assistance.

How did it go?

It ended up being an interview for a volunteer job.  It would be for Friday - Saturday and I am not encouraging that.  We don't mind babysitting for her to get herself some spending money, but for a volunteer gig, not so much.  If it were just one day a week, I wouldn't mind.  I am sure that you can imagine how that discussion went (immediate volatility, then acceptance and understanding our point of few a few hours later).