Wanting mom to have done something deemed “Unforgivable”

[Depression = 72% of members]

It’s a strange topic title I get it, but in the hurt places of my soul I wish mom would have done something worse to me to appease this stupid guilt.

My FOO is living in the delusion that if I just forgive mom and the family can experience growth and transformation.

I’m kind of mad today bc I did a terrible job keeping boundaries with my dad. He was able to tell me that my sister says mom is heartbroken and that she is worried about her health.

My parents are divorced! I got mad bc I said to dad why the heck do YOU care if I’m NC? This is bc you feel bad for my sister.

They work together.

He said this effects family dynamics.

again I did a  job of enforcing boundaries and FOG rolled on in.

It worries me that I think I’ve come a far way in learning boundaries and limit setting... but if I’m bad at it with my dad who is pretty “normal” how the  will I do a good job with mom.

I’m afraid my whole life is going to be this awful game of tug of war. How can a person who has all or nothing thinking ever be respectful of a LC relationship (unless you life far away)

[Imatter33]

It’s a strange topic title I get it, but in the hurt places of my soul I wish mom would have done something worse to me to appease this stupid guilt.

My FOO is living in the delusion that if I just forgive mom and the family can experience growth and transformation.

I’m kind of mad today bc I did a terrible job keeping boundaries with my dad. He was able to tell me that my sister says mom is heartbroken and that she is worried about her health.

My parents are divorced! I got mad bc I said to dad why the heck do YOU care if I’m NC? This is bc you feel bad for my sister.

They work together.

He said this effects family dynamics.

again I did a  job of enforcing boundaries and FOG rolled on in.

It worries me that I think I’ve come a far way in learning boundaries and limit setting... but if I’m bad at it with my dad who is pretty “normal” how the  will I do a good job with mom.

I’m afraid my whole life is going to be this awful game of tug of war. How can a person who has all or nothing thinking ever be respectful of a LC relationship (unless you life far away)

[Methuen]

Hi imatter

Hmm.  I think understanding the importance of boundaries is the easy part.  But I think learning how to apply them on our feet and in the moment is hard.  One reason it's hard is because we have to keep our own emotions under control to think both rationally and fast on our feet if we are going to be able to hold our boundaries.

I think you are doing fine.   I think that because you already recognize you broke your own boundary with your dad.  And it sounds like you are annoyed at yourself for it, because it engaged you in more drama which you are trying to avoid.

I'm guessing you're motivated enough after this round, to able to hold your boundary better next time.  You actually "get" what the problem was.

Plenty of people don't recognize that they need boundaries...because they are so enmeshed they can't see their role in the problem, and they need to change themselves before the relationship can improve.

Family dynamics are not your fault either.  Resist the temptation to JADE with your family, cs. as we all know, it doesn't work.  Responding with silence to that kind of stuff (in text or email) brings me the best results with my mom.  Responding with anything else just engages the BPD, and rewards them for their "hooks", and so their bad behavior continues.  So you got "reeled in" this time.  It was in person, and this happens to everyone.  We're all human.

So cut yourself some slack, friend.  Don't beat yourself up. Forgive yourself, let it wash down a river like a leaf, and just learn from it.  

Maybe instead of putting negative energy into ruminating about this, put that energy into reflecting about how you could have held your boundary with your dad instead.  That will be good practice for next time, and a way to move forward, and feel better today.  I'm learning to BREATHE, BREATHE, BREATHE, slow things down, and "don't react on an emotional level with my mouth".  Use the brain instead to remember my skills from this board.

He was able to tell me that my sister says mom is heartbroken and that she is worried about her health.

OK.  This is not your fault, but you already know that.  It wasn't a fair thing of him to say, and he shouldn't have said it.  Think of this as a bigger leaf, and let it float away down the river too.  Once it's around the next bend in the river, it's gone and not yours to think about any more.  I'm learning that we gotta just "let go" of those triggers and stop reacting to them.  It gets easier once we get the hang of it.
 

[Harri]

I’m kind of mad today bc I did a terrible job keeping boundaries with my dad. He was able to tell me that my sister says mom is heartbroken and that she is worried about her health.
My parents are divorced! I got mad bc I said to dad why the heck do YOU care if I’m NC? This is bc you feel bad for my sister.
They work together.
He said this effects family dynamics.
again I did a    job of enforcing boundaries and FOG rolled on in.

Let's break this down.

What boundary did you do a  job with?  Can you write it out here?  What do you think you could have done better? How did you get drawn in?  I am not sure I see the situation in the same way you do.

Some of what I am hearing in your post is that there is still a lot of attachment in what other people think about you and say.  I don't mean that you are doing anything wrong, just pointing out an area you might want to take a look at.

Your father is right when he says that the action of one person can affect family dynamics.  It happens in healthy families and it happens even more and to a greater extent in enmeshed families.  I went through the same thing with my brother and father after I moved out of the family home and 'betrayed' my mom.  The thing is, it is a family dynamic that needs to be broken for your own health.   That may mean that your father and sister see you as the bad one.  Can you be okay with that?  I struggled there for a long time but as I became more and more differentiated, it got easier to cope with.  Let them have their opinions and beliefs.  Yes, it hurts and it sucks.  Yes, it is not fair.  Life hurts and sucks sometimes and sometimes it is incredibly unfair.  None of that means you are flawed and none of that means that their opinions and beliefs about you are true.   

What do you think would take away your guilt?  Or justify the choices you have made?  Seriously.  Lets talk about that.

[Imatter33]

Hi imatter

Hmm.  I think understanding the importance of boundaries is the easy part.  But I think learning how to apply them on our feet and in the moment is hard.  One reason it's hard is because we have to keep our own emotions under control to think both rationally and fast on our feet if we are going to be able to hold our boundaries.

My journey toward a more healthy emotional detachment is ongoing and I thought I was farther along. I am a highly emotional person, but I can see how if I do not learn how to do the detaching I will be forever under FOG and a host of other emotional turmoil.

I think you are doing fine.   I think that because you already recognize you broke your own boundary with your dad.  And it sounds like you are annoyed at yourself for it, because it engaged you in more drama which you are trying to avoid.

Thank you M.  You are right and I appreciate the encouragement.

Family dynamics are not your fault either.  Resist the temptation to JADE with your family, cs. as we all know, it doesn't work.

I am finding it hard to know how to respond to anyone. BPD or not. Again I think it's because I have not emotionally detached. I am also realizing I am trying to sweep a lot under the rug with my Dad. (H stated the other night, "I can't believe you've spent no time in counseling talking about you and your dads relationship) He is right. It feels a bit like a vice, (BPD probs on one side, the rest of the world on the other, pressing in and well I wanted to skip past issues with Dad.

BPD or not I haven't learned great communication from either parent and well I think I am giving my dad too much of a "he's normal pass." In actuality he has been checked out of my life up until my daughter was born, and we never talked of family dynamics, because I never saw him. Hanging out was the equivalent of a meal and a hug.
We have both pinpointed that some of the issue was FOG from Mom not allowing me to have a relationship with him, but that is not the whole thing, and I've got to find a way to work out my true feelings about his sudden emergence in my life. I need Boundaries with him too.

So cut yourself some slack, friend.  Don't beat yourself up. Forgive yourself, let it wash down a river like a leaf, and just learn from it.

trying...  

Maybe instead of putting negative energy into ruminating about this, put that energy into reflecting about how you could have held your boundary with your dad instead.  That will be good practice for next time, and a way to move forward, and feel better today.  I'm learning to BREATHE, BREATHE, BREATHE, slow things down, and "don't react on an emotional level with my mouth".  Use the brain instead to remember my skills from this board.

MUST READ 1000 times again. 

OK.  This is not your fault, but you already know that.  It wasn't a fair thing of him to say, and he shouldn't have said it.  Think of this as a bigger leaf, and let it float away down the river too.  Once it's around the next bend in the river, it's gone and not yours to think about any more.  I'm learning that we gotta just "let go" of those triggers and stop reacting to them.  It gets easier once we get the hang of it.
 

THANK YOU M.

Let's break this down.

What boundary did you do a  job with?  Can you write it out here?  What do you think you could have done better? How did you get drawn in?  I am not sure I see the situation in the same way you do.

Boundary that I wish I had enforced was: I will not talk about my relationship with other family members except with that person directly.
A while back FF (another poster) gave advice that it is best to not let your family know the status of your relationship with another, if they do not support your boundary. So I think I should have texted my dad before he came over, Hey, not talking about family stuff, this is a time for you and granddaughter) I know he would have respected it.

Some of what I am hearing in your post is that there is still a lot of attachment in what other people think about you and say.  I don't mean that you are doing anything wrong, just pointing out an area you might want to take a look at

.
Very very correct Harri.

Your father is right when he says that the action of one person can affect family dynamics.  It happens in healthy families and it happens even more and to a greater extent in enmeshed families.  I went through the same thing with my brother and father after I moved out of the family home and 'betrayed' my mom. The thing is, it is a family dynamic that needs to be broken for your own health.   That may mean that your father and sister see you as the bad one.  Can you be okay with that?

I SO WANT TO BE BUT I AM NOT THERE YET. My sister sending me a letter assuming bs about the quality of my heart sent me in a tailspin this week

I struggled there for a long time but as I became more and more differentiated, it got easier to cope with.  Let them have their opinions and beliefs.  Yes, it hurts and it sucks.  Yes, it is not fair.  Life hurts and sucks sometimes and sometimes it is incredibly unfair.  None of that means you are flawed and none of that means that their opinions and beliefs about you are true.   

What do you think would take away your guilt?  Or justify the choices you have made?  Seriously.  Lets talk about that.

My mother was controlling and has a rage issue. I think to justify my NC my family needs her to have commited a worse offense. Of course we all have our own experiences of her, but I want them to understand that my mom messed up her relationship with me enough times to warrant my nc. It didn't just appear one day bc i had a baby, and its not bc I am afraid of her being around the baby.
I also deserve to have relationships in my life that build me up, and Mom does not do that point blank.

This does not feel like a big enough reason (even to me) sometimes.
To answer your question Harri, I want someone else in my family to admit that mom emotionally scarred them too and tell me I am not selfish.

UGH did I really just type that

[Methuen]

...but I want them to understand that my mom messed up her relationship with me enough times to warrant my nc.

Question:  have any of your family (which you are so desperate to want to understand why you are NC) witnessed your mom raging at you?

I ask because my uBPD mom always picked times when she could get me alone.  Always!   I was married 31 years before my husband witnessed an episode.  After he saw her in action with his own eyes, he understood me, finally.  But 31 years was a long time...

Until he witnessed it, he couldn't possibly understand (it didn't matter how good a job I did of describing it).

So I ask you, has your family (whom you are so desperate to understand your NC with your mom) witnessed one of these episodes?

Conversely, have they ever been a target?  OR, have you ever witnessed one of them being a target of her rage?

If she's only raged at you...don't take it personally.  Take it as a complement, cs they tend to rage at the one they feel safest with.

In my experience, my family had to see it to believe it, because uBPD mom is so different when she is not dysregulated/raging at me.

Just curious.

I'm going to challenge you with a question now.  Forgive me if I'm off the mark for your situation (because I don't understand your story well enough). While it would be really nice if your family understood and supported you, ultimately is that the most important thing?  Or is it enough for you to know intrinsically that your "truth" is real, that you have the support of others at bpdfamily who have had similar experiences, and realize that others (such as your family members or friends) can't understand the NC if they haven't experienced her rages and dysregulated behavior personally?  

I know that my mom's friends "don't get" it.  I know they pass judgement on me.  In the beginning it bothered me a LOT.  Several months later it bothers me less.  I think it gets better.  I just keep trying to move forward in my life.  I'm LC with my mom, and emotionally detached (probably still in progress).  Two steps forward today, 1 step back next week.  But still moving forward.

I'm hopeful for you imatter.

[Methuen]

Ick...ran out of time to modify in the last post. 

My last comment: I think it's easier for me than for you, because I'm not trying to pursuade other family members to understand NC.  It's her friends that will judge me, not family.  I don't have any family to judge me.  I'm it, and sometimes that sucks too 'cause the buck stops with me, and she's all my responsibility. 

But, could it be that trying to get support of your other family members is a kind of triangulating?  For your benefit because you are really needing the support after all the negativity she has brought to your life?

Maybe it will just take time for YOU to be OK with your own feelings? 

I know you will work hard to keep your boundaries with your family.   Eventually a new equilibrium will hopefully form in the family dynamic with your new boundaries.  It will take time, but I'm hopeful it can get better because I have read lots of stories on this site where it has.

I'm hopeful for you imatter.

[Notwendy]

I can understand your frustration. But family dynamics are strong and complicated. I don't think there's anything my mother could do that would change the fact that her family and my father ( who is now deceased) would not forgive. She has the ability to present herself in "victim" mode and they rally to her side.

They also mainly know me through her narrative of me, so I am not sure they would see it any other way.

She's also skilled at making sure nobody outside the immediate family sees her in her abusive mode. She can snap into "angelic" in an instant. She's a different person with others.

Don't feel badly about having done poorly with your boundaries. I think it takes practice and even now, after practice, I can still question myself. If everyone else thinks my mother is "wonderful" then the problem is me, right? No it's not. What she's done really happened, it's just that denial on her part is strong. She's portrayed any issues we've had as just mother-daughter issues. If I just came around to her family's point of view, all would be fine.

I too perceived my father as the "normal" one and saw her as the main problem. He was basically my only stable parent and I loved him. It was very hard to have boundaries with him.

I think it helps to work on your own perception of things. People will misjudge you. My mother's family and friends have misjudged me. My father did. But we should not have to tolerate being treated poorly in order to feel accepted and loved by our family.

[zachira]

You are wondering about this desire you have to want your mom to have done something "unforgivable". I find what you are expressing quite normal under the circumstances. You are tired of the tug of war with your mother and family members over being NC with your mother. I have had the experience with family members with BPD and friends, where they have done something so terrible that I want nothing more to do with them, and can keep them at a distance/or not in my life at all without any regrets or feelings of guilt, and maybe this is what you are seeking for yourself and possibly your father and other family members, that nobody has to feel guilty about not interacting with your mother because of what she has done?

[Imatter33]

Long post alert:

Methuen and NotWendy  

I hope that emoji can convey the gratitude I have in my heart for your thoughtful and helpful responses.

Lately I have been feeling scared to utilize the forum (I wanted to deactivate) because this stuff is so so personal, but then I post and am met with validation and support.

we should not have to tolerate being treated poorly in order to feel accepted and loved by our family.

 

my sn is IMATTER. so this sentence just reiterates to me that the above sentence is everything.

Have any of your family witnessed your mother raging?


Yes. I believe her rage is entirely different for each sibling.Especially as we became adults.


Have any of your family witnessed your mother raging at you?

Not recently.

A while ago I posted about the very strange relationship my mom has with her God. She has the perpetual desire/demand to. have her kids support it. That support to her means never question any strange behavior she presents, and never question the authority of whatever pastor she is following at the moment. And if she had her way, we would all just treat her like a biblical authority and "do church with her" whatever that means.

My mom is very financially unstable and oftentimes living on the brink of homelessness. It got to the point where helping her financially meant possibly just filling her pastor’s pockets.

Her rage that I am privy too  is about how her children (but mostly me)  make her feel about her decision she’s made with God. I don’t know what that sentence means.
I feel like it’s been that way my entire life and my mom has never made a”decision with God”.

It felt in the past  like I had no solid ground to work with in terms of boundaries because I am spiritual and I would find myself just praying that God would help her. My personal faith I believe was getting manipulated somehow.

But anyway at the core of her and I’s relationship only ...is an Existential matter of opinion.

I believe that for a long time she has compartmentalized relationships with each one of my siblings. We all have different views on faith some of my siblings have boundaries in which God is not a topic of discussion at all.

I never made that boundary while we were still talking and I realized through counseling and this board that was the one boundary I needed to make years ago.

It’s the only topic that she wants to discuss because staying in the present moment equals the “carnal” realm for her. (sigh)

By processing all that here I went NC because I  got super tired of of her relentlessness on this topic with me, and the rage that went with it hand in hand.  I went NC because I did not have a boundary. (Big learning thing here)
This is the very thing I feel guilt over. That NC for this reason is not good enough. GUYS. I am putting this together.

 IT doesn't matter if it's big enough to anyone but me and my immediate family![/b]

I don’t know if my siblings deal with that part of her personality or not.
In processing this I see how my desire to have them understand is futile.

My husband said yesterday that none of the relationships with my siblings currently are close .
but I told him we have this sort of bond from childhood (trauma) that I’m having a hard time shaking. It's not healthy though and I deserve better.

Also hugely important

Mu husband has seen and been the victim of existential rage and he is furious over what he has seen happen in the past. He is beyond pissed about a recent comment she made  shortly made after my daughters birth.

Over this year of NC I’ve learned so much about the disorder and the importance of setting boundaries to which a relationship with Mom could be possible, but my H does not share in any hope for improvement with me at this time.
 I'll spare his exact words.

My hope lies in becoming a better communicator with my husband with my dad and everyone.

Perhaps down the road (this could be years down the road ) I will have learned what I need to do to Restore some faith in my abilities with my husband and then be able to resume A LC with mom.
I feel his ultimatum-like stance is out of his need to protect himself and us. I was upset naturally but I have a clearer outlook today and I respect and love him.

For now it is looking like NC it will be permanent for the sake of my marriage.
 He needs to see me use the skills and be stronger before he enters in the risk of inviting mom back into our lives even a little bit.
I also said long ago, I am not wanting a relationship with mom if it doesn't involve my H and daughter because I see no point.

H's personal feelings are an incredible vulnerable piece of information that really isn’t my family’s business.

 Harri asked if I could be comfortable being labeled something that is not true of my character.

I think I have to get  comfortable in being labeled cold and stubborn to save my nuclear family. To respect our privacy.

I do have you guys to share with and it feels vulnerable and scary but I thank you for being there for me.
 

[Imatter33]

maybe this is what you are seeking for yourself and possibly your father and other family members, that nobody has to feel guilty about not interacting with your mother because of what she has done?

You nailed it Z, but I just posted a lot of realizations. Thanks for this response. 

[zachira]

I am glad my response was helpful. What I am about to say may or may not be helpful. I often marvel how the people for whom I have the highest regard, people who are truly humble, have healthy self esteem and plenty of loving relationships in their lives, have the healthiest boundaries: They see people for who they are most of the time, and seem to easily disengage from the worst people without much effort. Those of us who grew up with a mother with BPD, are manipulated as children to feel guilty if we don't put our mother's needs first and to forget about our own needs. I feel that I am on a life long learning curve, of getting who is who more quickly, and then setting appropriate boundaries. You are wondering how not to feel so badly when your family disrespects your boundary of no contact with your mother. My therapist gave me a great tip which has served me well: She told me to mindfully observe the interactions while in the presence of people that disrespected my boundaries, and I found that doing this has helped me to see the interactions for what they are and to make considerable progress in not being so emotionally engaged in the moment and in the future with these type of people and behaviors. I think that those of who grow up with a mother with BPD often try to have some kind of reciprocal conversation with those who enable the people with BPD, and it just doesn't work.It is so difficult for them to understand what is going on when they do not witness the behaviors of the mother with BPD and/or have any understanding of how we are affected.  Have you ever done any mindfulness practices and do you think they are/might be helpful?

[stellaris]

"It’s a strange topic title I get it, but in the hurt places of my soul I wish mom would have done something worse to me to appease this stupid guilt."

I really get this.  In my family, it was my mother who drove all the craziness, and it was all raging, neglect, verbal abuse.  These things are very hard to pin down, because the constant subtext is "You deserved it,".  And it is mixed in with things that were genuinely loving, so it gets very confusing, .  And feeling unloved by your mother - that's too terrible for a child to contemplate, so the natural response is to take it on board.  "If I deserved the love, I also deserved the abuse," 

However, just once, my father snapped and beat me.  It was a horrible experience, but at the same time, it was the thread that let me unravel the whole mess.  It was clearly over the line, way over the line, and of course these things don't come out of nowhere.

Eventually I came to realize that physical abuse is really just emotional abuse made concrete.  I have suffered far worse pain and injury in my life than that beating, but what mattered was not the physical pain but the intent behind it.  "I intend to hurt you."  This was my father one time, and my mother every day."

So eventually I came to realize that her love was, at best, limited.  It was not the nurturance of a mother for child, but the greed of a dragon for gold.  I was a possession, not a person.  I was to be there for her, not her for me. 

This is still really hard to accept, but at least it gives me clarity.

[Notwendy]

stellaris, your posts could be my words. Occasionally my father would lose his temper. He didn't beat me ( hard to beat a girl) but he could hurt verbally. But he was also the loving parent.

So eventually I came to realize that her love was, at best, limited.  It was not the nurturance of a mother for child, but the greed of a dragon for gold.  I was a possession, not a person.  I was to be there for her, not her for me.



This has been even clearer to me since my father passed away. I believe he was the glue between my mother and me if there was any, for at least she probably had to pretend somewhat to care about me when he was around. She shows zero emotion to me- I am basically just useful to her. She tolerates me because she enjoys the status of being a grandmother and she still has to deal with me if she wants contact with my kids.

We are LC, and there is very little connection between us. However the only way for her to reconcile this to save face is that, it has to be my fault. I don't try to argue this or explain it to her family. I have pretty much decided to not let what they think of me bother me as much as I can. It's sad sometimes.

[Person2]

My personal faith I believe was getting manipulated somehow.

I  got super tired of of her relentlessness on this topic with me, and the rage that went with it hand in hand.

Trespassing on another’s personal faith is in some ways the ultimate intrusion, don’t you think?

[SepiaScarf]

I just wanted to say how much I loved this post/thread. I completely understand the guilty feeling that creeps up and is always whispering in my ear but it wasn't really that bad. I have to constantly remind myself that I did not imagine her rage and accusations. I have to remind myself not to accept them at any level, it does not matter how "bad they were", because they exist and no one deserved them on any level.

SS

[Imatter33]

 In my family, it was my mother who drove all the craziness, and it was all raging, neglect, verbal abuse. [/b] These things are very hard to pin down, because the constant subtext is "You deserved it,".  And it is mixed in with things that were genuinely loving, so it gets very confusing, . [/b] And feeling unloved by your mother - that's too terrible for a child to contemplate, so the natural response is to take it on board.  "If I deserved the love, I also deserved the abuse,"  

Stellaris, I don't know that I had thought of the subtext being you deserved it, but after the havoc that a fight or rage left me feeling I can see how this is exactly what I was learning.
Another subtext, if you loved me you would listen and help me with my pain and if you don't then you deserve it.

So eventually I came to realize that her love was, at best, limited.  It was not the nurturance of a mother for child, but the greed of a dragon for gold.  [/b]I was a possession, not a person.  I was to be there for her, not her for me.  [/b]

This is still really hard to accept, but at least it gives me clarity.

Harder still I think is the (un) intentionality  of that dynamic because of the disorder but it does not...it does not...it does not make it okay.

The limited love I have received from my mom has made me feel seen and even listened too at times, but it just never holds. This makes me so so sad. I know many can relate. And to pull some knowledge of BPD in, its the times I am being idealized that feel like love.  Idealized for "really hearing"  for "understanding her heart." for offering good advice, for doing her taxes, giving her groceries, taking her to dinner" letting her vent about the past for hours. Devaluation is just around the bend.  

I just wanted to say how much I loved this post/thread. I completely understand the guilty feeling that creeps up and is always whispering in my ear but it wasn't really that bad. I have to constantly remind myself that I did not imagine her rage and accusations. I have to remind myself not to accept them at any level, it does not matter how "bad they were", because they exist and no one deserved them on any level.

I am in awe of your way to succinctly say this SS.
I have been surprised all day at the replies given and hearing how its helping others is so very worth the work of me getting some of this out!  

Trespassing on another’s personal faith is in some ways the ultimate intrusion, don’t you think?

P2: WOW. Thanks for posing it like that to me. Wow.

I often marvel how the people for whom I have the highest regard, people who are truly humble, have healthy self esteem and plenty of loving relationships in their lives, have the healthiest boundaries: They see people for who they are most of the time, and seem to easily disengage from the worst people without much effort.

I have seen this happen by a handful of healthy people and I when I see it I feel like I have witnessed magic. I know it can become accessible to me when my boundaries are strong Brene Brown said "Healthy boundaries allow me to make  kind assumptions of others.

You are wondering how not to feel so badly when your family disrespects your boundary of no contact with your mother. My therapist gave me a great tip which has served me well: She told me to mindfully observe the interactions while in the presence of people that disrespected my boundaries, and I found that doing this has helped me to see the interactions for what they are and to make considerable progress in not being so emotionally engaged in the moment and in the future with these type of people and behaviors.

Can you give me an example?

I think that those of who grow up with a mother with BPD often try to have some kind of reciprocal conversation with those who enable the people with BPD, and it just doesn't work.It is so difficult for them to understand what is going on when they do not witness the behaviors of the mother with BPD and/or have any understanding of how we are affected.

Zacharia, This is where my sister is at right now.
But i know she has witnessed and been wounded by certain behaviors, but there is no acknowledgement.  She is trying to put on the big rescuer pants and turn a blind eye. I worry about her mental health but you are right, there is no understanding of my feelings from her. I could save myself a lot of turmoil if I stopped wishing she would listen. Accept her stance and respect my own boundary of not discussing mom. I will not be replying  further to her letter either because I already told her that nothing will be changing.

Have you ever done any mindfulness practices and do you think they are/might be helpful?

I am not good at them. I forgot to breathe the entire time my dad and I were talking.

[zachira]

For a long time, I could not do mindfulness either. I had to go to therapy to be able to stay present in the moment: feel my feelings and body sensations. In the beginning, it was extremely painful as I was flooded with uncomfortable feelings and body sensations, and I needed my therapist to help me stay in the moment without getting overwhelmed.
You asked me for an example. Instead of just talking with the person, I observe how I feel inside. If I notice the feelings and body sensations, then I am aware of how I am feeling, which helps to process what is going on inside of me and let the uncomfortable feelings go that belong to the other person.  Does this help? I find it difficult to explain mindfulness. Basically the interaction is about being an observer who does not let the other person dump their uncomfortable feelings they cannot handle onto you.

[Spindle0516]

Hi IMatter!

I have loved following this thread. And since I first saw your username, I have loved that as well.

You Matter. How you feel matters. Your thoughts, your beliefs, your own self confidence matters. Your relationship with your husband matters. Your baby matters. How YOU feel about God and your own spirituality- that matters as well.

This sentiment- it is one that I have been repeating to myself and to my husband a lot. We have been burdened with guilt and a feeling of obligation to care for his mom. But when we do this, we stop caring for ourselves. We forget that we matter.

My husband matters. His voice and his individuality matters. I matter. Time with just him matters. Our relationship matters. Our future family matters.

And unless we can remember this, we all lose. No one wins. Not our BPD's. Not our extended families. Not ourselves.

You are allowed to feel whole and to be supported and surrounded by the people who help you be the best version of yourself.

It doesn't mean that things aren't complicated sometimes. And that there will not be chaos. But remembering that we matter, that we as individuals have value, it is essential for us to take all the necessary steps we need to take to establish boundaries and to figure out what our own values are and to figure out who and what lifts you up and makes you feel whole.

You are not alone. None of us here really are and that has been such a beautiful gift to discover, isn't it?

[Methuen]

What a great conversational thread this is.

If you weren't here Imatter, this conversation wouldn't have happened.  We like having you here...it's so nice that we all get to help each other and try to figure this out together.  

Happy sigh.

[Imatter33]

You Matter. How you feel matters. Your thoughts, your beliefs, your own self confidence matters. Your relationship with your husband matters. Your baby matters. How YOU feel about God and your own spirituality- that matters as well.
My husband matters. His voice and his individuality matters. I matter. Time with just him matters. Our relationship matters. Our future family matters.
And unless we can remember this, we all lose. No one wins. Not our BPD's. Not our extended families. Not ourselves.

You are allowed to feel whole and to be supported and surrounded by the people who help you be the best version of yourself.
You are not alone. None of us here really are and that has been such a beautiful gift to discover, isn't it?

I almost encapsulated your entire response Spindle. But I'll read it all again. Just seeing  your point about losing if we don't remember that we matter rings absolutely true.

So close to losing it in tears. (in the good way)
I have had some of the most emotionally exhausting days over the weekend and some blowups. And some failures (in the moment) but here I am thankful it all happened so I could continue learning.
Thank you everyone.

In positive news, I restated a boundary to my sister because at the end of the day the proclamation of the boundary is what we all have to work with.
Whether that be in texting form, letter form, phone calls, or in person. Sometimes proclaiming the boundary is the hardest part when conditioned in the past by fear.
I realize I can restate the boundary as many times as necessary if I can communicate it in love (not defense) and if I do not JADE. Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain.

Methuen-
Thank you. We can figure it out together. How beautiful.

[Spindle0516]