Wondering if She Has BPD and What I Should Look Out For

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

    Hi everyone, I'm going to try to be intentionally vague and after a little while I may delete this post to avoid detection; my soon to be ex-wife has been diagnosed with depression our whole time together and I'm beginning to think after talking to some friends that she may suffer from BPD.  I'd love to know if these fears are founded, and what I should look out for in our divorce process and having my 3 children spend the weekdays with her moving forward per our custody agreement.

    We met young and she's always had minor obsessions with things (certain shows or movies is a real good example, can watch harry potter a million times, couple other things too), she always said she was depressed but being a very young adult myself I didn't give it a whole lot of thought.  Her mom was dysfunctional, always causing drama, she told me her dad sexually abused her on one occasion as a child, and as a result I didn't want a relationship with her family and thought I was protecting her by getting her away from them.  She hasn't had contact with any of these people to my knowledge in many years.  One time while we were young I tried to break up with her and she attempted suicide using some kind of pill, I think advil, took ~20 or some she said.  I always felt like it was a call for help but I did want her to get help and called authorities who sent fire and rescue out and she was baker acted.  A cop that night told me to leave and never look back but I felt so damn guilty, especially since she was out of her family's life at this point, so I went to her at the hospital, helped her, and we continued a relationship.  She ended up getting pregnant about a year after this and though I had a lot of issues with her I did the right thing and married her.  In tantrums she had broken stuff of mine, used to refuse to let me leave the house when I wanted to cool down by blocking the door.  Things calmed a bit after our first kid was born and we had a good routine going and were around my family a lot which I think helped. 

    Fast forward a few years and she threatened to leave me if I didn't buy her an expensive new couch and give her another kid.  I, being an idiot gave her both those things.  As this was happening she started getting very secretive, I remember going to grab her phone for her and she freaked out, she was always texting and her friends were mostly people with dysfunctional relationships or divorced women who didn't seem to give her very good advice (basically f men stuff it seemed).  I thought maybe she was having an affair but she didn't leave the house very often so I ended up letting it go and getting over it.  When we were younger she had pitted me against another guy she liked, she would text him all night, flirt with him, who knows what else, she would say I'm jacob and he's edward from Twilight which she obsessed over or vice versa, and I wish I had more courage then but every time I tried to leave she'd threaten self harm leading up to the event of the pills.  After she had our final kid she just shut down and refused to do anything, wouldn't clean up after herself, wouldn't get up, wouldn't show up to work leading to her losing two jobs, etc.  She had gotten in to the habit of doing bad things then ignoring me for a week then going off on me for anything I had done in the past as a way to prevent from accepting blame for the situation.  This became an alternating week thing until I dreaded being in my own home. 

   Finally I found out from a collections agency she was hiding $20k in credit card debt, when I confronted her she blamed me.  I told her I wanted a divorce.  She stated it was my fault because "she couldn't talk to me about money" which is not true by the way.  I also found out she had stopped paying any bills and my credit is ruined.  Now for a week she was sad but decent to me as we're quarantined and in the same home (trying to get it sold currently), but after a week she started going out spending the night or staying out till 4am  almost every night.  I do the laundry so I get to see that the thongs came out of storage and I believe she's having sex with at least one if not many other men; she's also hanging out with a bad crowd she met recently that hang out in an area notorious for drugs.  I had thought she was using drugs (meth), because she stopped sleeping, stayed out all night and started becoming incredibly mean and cold to me, but a friend suggested maybe she's manic which in researching led me to believe maybe she has BPD.  I had at one point asked if she expected us to end up this way and she stated she had been thinking of divorce for 2 years (around the time of the couch/kid incident).  I believe she orchestrated this and has hated me for some time but continued having kids with me and putting up a front. 

    I'd love some advice about what I can expect next and what I should worry about with the kids, but also if I'm right in my thinking this is potentially BPD.  Thanks so much and I appreciate any feedback anyone can give,

[anonymous111111]

    Hi everyone, I'm going to try to be intentionally vague and after a little while I may delete this post to avoid detection; my soon to be ex-wife has been diagnosed with depression our whole time together and I'm beginning to think after talking to some friends that she may suffer from BPD.  I'd love to know if these fears are founded, and what I should look out for in our divorce process and having my 3 children spend the weekdays with her moving forward per our custody agreement.

    We met young and she's always had minor obsessions with things (certain shows or movies is a real good example, can watch harry potter a million times, couple other things too), she always said she was depressed but being a very young adult myself I didn't give it a whole lot of thought.  Her mom was dysfunctional, always causing drama, she told me her dad sexually abused her on one occasion as a child, and as a result I didn't want a relationship with her family and thought I was protecting her by getting her away from them.  She hasn't had contact with any of these people to my knowledge in many years.  One time while we were young I tried to break up with her and she attempted suicide using some kind of pill, I think advil, took ~20 or some she said.  I always felt like it was a call for help but I did want her to get help and called authorities who sent fire and rescue out and she was baker acted.  A cop that night told me to leave and never look back but I felt so damn guilty, especially since she was out of her family's life at this point, so I went to her at the hospital, helped her, and we continued a relationship.  She ended up getting pregnant about a year after this and though I had a lot of issues with her I did the right thing and married her.  In tantrums she had broken stuff of mine, used to refuse to let me leave the house when I wanted to cool down by blocking the door.  Things calmed a bit after our first kid was born and we had a good routine going and were around my family a lot which I think helped. 

    Fast forward a few years and she threatened to leave me if I didn't buy her an expensive new couch and give her another kid.  I, being an idiot gave her both those things.  As this was happening she started getting very secretive, I remember going to grab her phone for her and she freaked out, she was always texting and her friends were mostly people with dysfunctional relationships or divorced women who didn't seem to give her very good advice (basically f men stuff it seemed).  I thought maybe she was having an affair but she didn't leave the house very often so I ended up letting it go and getting over it.  When we were younger she had pitted me against another guy she liked, she would text him all night, flirt with him, who knows what else, she would say I'm jacob and he's edward from Twilight which she obsessed over or vice versa, and I wish I had more courage then but every time I tried to leave she'd threaten self harm leading up to the event of the pills.  After she had our final kid she just shut down and refused to do anything, wouldn't clean up after herself, wouldn't get up, wouldn't show up to work leading to her losing two jobs, etc.  She had gotten in to the habit of doing bad things then ignoring me for a week then going off on me for anything I had done in the past as a way to prevent from accepting blame for the situation.  This became an alternating week thing until I dreaded being in my own home. 

   Finally I found out from a collections agency she was hiding $20k in credit card debt, when I confronted her she blamed me.  I told her I wanted a divorce.  She stated it was my fault because "she couldn't talk to me about money" which is not true by the way.  I also found out she had stopped paying any bills and my credit is ruined.  Now for a week she was sad but decent to me as we're quarantined and in the same home (trying to get it sold currently), but after a week she started going out spending the night or staying out till 4am  almost every night.  I do the laundry so I get to see that the thongs came out of storage and I believe she's having sex with at least one if not many other men; she's also hanging out with a bad crowd she met recently that hang out in an area notorious for drugs.  I had thought she was using drugs (meth), because she stopped sleeping, stayed out all night and started becoming incredibly mean and cold to me, but a friend suggested maybe she's manic which in researching led me to believe maybe she has BPD.  I had at one point asked if she expected us to end up this way and she stated she had been thinking of divorce for 2 years (around the time of the couch/kid incident).  I believe she orchestrated this and has hated me for some time but continued having kids with me and putting up a front. 

    I'd love some advice about what I can expect next and what I should worry about with the kids, but also if I'm right in my thinking this is potentially BPD.  Thanks so much and I appreciate any feedback anyone can give,

[worriedStepmom]

Hi, Welcome to BPDFamily.  It sounds like you're in a really frustrating situation.

It's hard to tell from your post if your wife might have BPD or not - and none of us are qualified to diagnose anyway.  Have you read Stop Walking on Eggshells, by Randi Kreger and Paul T. Mason?  That's helped a lot of people see if they recognize themselves in those descriptions.

In the long run, it might not matter.  It sounds as if your wife, at the very least, has severe depression. 

If you're exploring the possibility of divorce, the first step is to talk to a lawyer and find out what to expect legally in terms of asset and debt division and custody.  The lawyer can tell you what is standard - this may or may not be what you ask for or end up with.

The second step is to start documenting her behavior around you and the kids.  Document the division of labor with the kids.  If she's officially a stay-at-home mom, is she actually taking care of them?  Who takes them to the doctor/dentist?  Who does bedtime routines and makes them lunch/dinner?  Who is helping with virtual schooling right now (if they are old enough for that)?  Who organized playdates (in the old days, when we could do that)?  In the evenings, who is interacting with them (quality time)?  Document if wife displays bad behavior directed at the kids (and their reactions) or towards you in front of them.   All those kinds of things will prove what kind of a parent she is, and what kind of a parent you are.

I'd also recommend that you find a counselor for yourself, if you aren't seeing one already.  I'm able to see mine via telehealth appointments, so you could probably do that too.  A counselor can help you talk through what you are experiencing and find strategies to help improve your daily life.  Mine also offers help with parenting skills, so I can better support my kid with anxiety and my stepdaughter whose mother is undiagnosed BPD.

You can do this. 

[anonymous111111]

Hi, thanks for the information, I've never considered seeing a counselor, I have a hard time opening up to people about my personal life and I generally feel good and very optimistic about the future, I just don't think I'll trust anyone again and would rather live alone than risk going through something similar.  I also get angry about how she's handled everything and what she's done but I think I've done a very good job at hiding it since she loses it if she feels like anyone's criticizing her.  We've signed divorced papers for an uncontentested divorce and I'm happy with the terms, unfortunately the courts here are shut down due to the virus so I haven't been able to file, and then after filing it takes a couple months for a final hearing.  I appreciate your advice and will keep it in mind though, thank you,

[ForeverDad]

Just about everything you mentioned I experienced too.  Your spouse is very much like mine was though my ex's symptoms grew over the years, she was more of a child abuse survivor in the early years.  Some exceptions were that mine was fiscally frugal, maybe there was an emotional affair not sure, and immediately after I became a father she started distancing from me.  Almost like she had to choose between "her" child or me.  Partly because I as a father then reminded her of her abuser stepfather.  But we had been married for over a decade and she knew I wasn't like him.  But she couldn't or wouldn't discern that emotionally.  Then when our son got close to the age she was (3yo) when her SF entered her family she stared reliving her childhood terrors through him.  The marriage imploded.

Don't concern yourself overmuch about a specific diagnosis.  The acting-out Personality Disorders (there are four or five - Narcissistic, Borderline, Histrionic, Paranoid, Antisocial) can vary in intensity, there can even be traits observed of more than one PD.  That she sometimes can seem normal is not unusual at all, the erratic behaviors and mood swings are indicators of serious problems.  If this makes it easier to assess, then here are a couple questions that should put you in the ballpark...  Is the marriage and her parenting healthy and functional?  Or is it unhealthy and dysfunctional?  Overall that general indicator will speak volumes.

You don't have to stick with the first counselor you meet.  Just like every other skilled profession, there are inexperienced ones and experienced ones.  I recall the first counselor I went to spent three sessions focusing on my FOO (family of origin) background and never once offered suggestions or strategies on how to address my spouse's extreme behaviors.  Yikes, I never went back.  I see see another counselor later, but I found the remote (but anonymous) peer support here immensely helpful.  (I've been here since my son was 3 years old and now he's an adult!)

What you will find is that it is hard to stand up for yourself — and what you know is good for the children too.  But you can unlearn the passive habit of appeasing or apologizing for everything.  You will find good examples of strong boundaries.  Most of us had boundaries backwards.  Boundaries are typically resisted by a disordered person.  As you found out the hard way.  Boundaries are for us.  How so?  One simple example is, "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."

[anonymous111111]

Thank you, I appreciate the advice, I think right now it's hard to find any leverage to set boundaries but hopefully I can feel more empowered to do so after the divorce is finalized by the courts.  I'm hoping since she seems to have moved on quickly that she'll marry quickly and find a new long-term punching bag

[MeandThee29]

I agree, the diagnosis might not matter if the agreement is ready, and you will be divorced when the courts return to full capabilities. In my area, they are still taking uncontested divorces because the judges are still working, but they aren't doing any face-to-face other than emergency orders. With kids involved, of course you will have ongoing issues. Hopefully you have a really good attorney. I didn't have custody issues, but the divorce process was really, really difficult. The legal professionals I chose thankfully were outstanding individuals.

Maybe not now, but I recommend getting some kind of help for yourself one way or another, even if it's through a support group. My attorney's practice actually offers a free online group with a therapist that has been helpful. About half of the people there are men. The topics for discussion are always very practical even for those who just listen.

I realize that we women generally process this different than men, but for me, some of the most healing things were just getting out there again with people in general. I was doing a lot of volunteer work before the virus hit, and still keep in contact with friends from that via text and Zoom. I am older and have zero interest in dating, but having good times with friends has been wonderful. A few know the whole ugly story, but most don't. They know that I am divorced, but I focus on the present with them.

You'll get there!

[PeteWitsend]

...
    I'd love some advice about what I can expect next and what I should worry about with the kids, but also if I'm right in my thinking this is potentially BPD.  Thanks so much and I appreciate any feedback anyone can give,

First of all, yes, I would say there's obviously something else going on here beyond mere depression.  If not full-blown BPD, than on the spectrum.  The suicide attempt - in response to your leaving - is one red flag.  The spending/hiding debt, impulsive behavior, & potential drug abuse & cheating, are others.

I hope you documented the latter, and provided those to your attorney.  I feel like if not, this is something you need to stay on top of, and potentially fight for full custody if those behaviors continue; to the extent she neglects your children, or she puts them in harm's way through negligence or reckless actions you should be documenting all this and preparing to go back to court. 

During my divorce, I was torn between fighting for more custody, and getting it over with as little conflict as possible.  Figured I would "keep my powder dry" in case it came to having to fight for more custody down the line, and wait to see if she made mistakes that harmed our kids, in which case, I'd be on better grounds for a fight. 

Looking back, I honestly can't say whether I made the right decision or not.  I know some that took the approach of hammering out every detail at once, figuring that the more they won up front, the better the position they'd be in down the line.  Others that ended up in bad situations because their divorces took so long they ran up against "real world" problems. for example, in one case the judge - fearful of COVID-19 apparently - is threatening to dismiss their whole case on the eve of trial, and forcing them to hire a private judge to conduct it.  This was a divorce that started at the same time as mine, roughly a year and a half ago. 

As far as what you can expect next... we had written in regular appointments with a child psychologist to help them deal with the transition and spot any behavioral issues.  According to my kids' T, things typically settle into a post-divorce stable period that lasts a couple years.  Then there will be some significant changes, usually around 2 years; job changes, or relationship changes, may result in major changes to the custody routine. 

We have had some minor conflicts and issues; as far as I know, nothing "actionable" that would require going back to court.  My BPDxw's BF yells at my kids a lot, according to them, but yelling - as abusive as it may be - is not something by itself courts will base a change of circumstances on in this state.  I'm just keeping all this in a word file, recording dates and other issues to help me document issues.  Hopefully I'll never need it, but I would rather be prepared. 

As it is now, the COVID-19 quarantine seems to be putting some stress on everyone, but as far as I know, all the adults here still have our jobs, just working remotely.  Not sure what comes next.  For me, it will be 2 years post-separation this fall.  2 years post-divorce next spring. 

Thank you, I appreciate the advice, I think right now it's hard to find any leverage to set boundaries but hopefully I can feel more empowered to do so after the divorce is finalized by the courts.  I'm hoping since she seems to have moved on quickly that she'll marry quickly and find a new long-term punching bag

If she's already going out late and staying out late, I think the chances are good she'll find someone else rather quickly and try to settle down with them.  But this means you need to be more vigilant as to who she's bringing around your kids.

in my own case BPDxw had a new guy within a couple months, and let him move in a month or so later.  He "works from home" and so never really leaves.  It looks like he bought himself a brand new giant pickup truck shortly after he moved in... and I heard from my kids he forced her mom, my X-MIL to move out.  This was somewhat ironic, since a year before our divorce, BPDxw insisted we bring her mom to live with us, since she was "all alone here" and "had no family support."  And BPDxw was always fighting with my mom & extended family, baselessly claiming she was afraid my mom would abuse our kids, and trying to isolate me from my parents and extended family.  Her new BF forced her own mom out after a couple months.

Also ironic, BPDxw would do nasty stuff like throw out the gifts my mom would send to our kids.  They told me her new boyfriend told them if their grandma (ie BPDxw's mom) sent them any more gifts he'd throw them right in the garbage. 

What goes around comes around, I guess... 

BPDxw seemed to think she was getting under my skin, or making me jealous by playing coy with the fact that she had a BF, he was picking our kids up from school, etc. but I never responded.  I was happy to be away from her, and happy someone else would have to bear the BPD-behavior.  My only concern was, and continues to be, for my kids. 

[livednlearned]

I'm so sorry you've had to go through this, anon. Betrayal is tough to get through.

About anonymity, this particular board doesn't show up in search results. I was concerned about computer privacy with my ex, and almost didn't post too. He was a former trial attorney with cyber expertise but the info I learned here was invaluable. Hope you grow comfortable being here.

You may as well treat it like BPD because that helps you cover all bases, including how she could behave during a contentious divorce. All the specific relationship and communication skills that you can learn here and from others apply whether she's severely depressed or BPD.

What is she like with the kids?