Can you rebuild trust?

[5min]

I get told I need to "fix this" and I "need to rebuild trust". So, can a person ever truly rebuild trust in the eyes of a pwBPD if they change reality to suit their emotions?

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[Sandb2015]

Yes please, I heard this too much and actually believed I was solely responsible for the trust thing.  I thought (convinced myself) I vacuumed all the trust out and will now star from zero and build it.

Thank you 5min.

[Wrongturn1]

I fell into this trap as well, until I eventually figured out that my uBPDw is not capable of trusting me, herself, or anyone else in the world for that matter.  Your actual degree of trustworthiness has nothing to do with your SO's trusting you or not - it's all about their emotions at any given moment.

[itsmeSnap]

Hello everyone

I get told I need to "fix this" and I "need to rebuild trust"

Does your partner ask this?

I heard this too much and actually believed I was solely responsible for the trust thing

We are supposed to show ourselves as trustworthy to some extent Sandb2015, but as far as trust in a relationship it takes two to tango, and I think 5min question touches on this as well: "can we do all the work? should we?".

When learning to dance you can have her hop on your feet to lead and show the moves but they have to at least lift their own weight or you're going to be straining after a few songs and still be hearing complaints of "I can't dance with you".

Your actual degree of trustworthiness has nothing to do with your SO's trusting you or not - it's all about their emotions at any given moment.

As someone with trust issues myself I can understand why this is so hard to navigate Wrongturn1. Others have asked how to "reassure" the pwBPD they're not cheating, how to make them "believe their compliments" and such, its a very common issue.

Last night I saw a sports reality show, the competitor would not have any of her peers' advice or help, she thought it was not worth it for them to risk their own "progress" for her.

When she started "winning" she was far more amenable to advice and help.

I think there's something to that effect, emotions twist our perception/reaction of it, even in nonBPDs, you can imagine BPDs going far overboard over smaller stuff, but I think the same applies.

if they won't believe us when they're dysregulated, can we make/let them be "happy" with something else so they will then believe us? have you gotten "through" to them (as in, trust you or welcome your advice/compliments) at some point?

Rethorical questions btw. What do you think?

[Sandb2015]

I do think that a more healthy minded person will won't fixate on distrust.  I have lied and been caught, it had to with texting my child's mother because she wouldn't stop dragging me in and how I gave her money, I knew it would cause havoc and eventually subside.  My love would eventually go threw my phone and think it was an emotional connection and that still idea she has gives her nightmares and is the heart of her episodes still today.  I couldn't convince her otherwise.

I have lied, no excuse.  Not big to me, very big to her.

The mistrust was there already and caused secondary cycles... .

Two to tango, yes.

We as nons want to be trusted when the wall of mistrust is higher than we can climb whether we tainted the dirty pool or not.

Can we say forgiveness as a precursor to trust, gaining some trust?

Can we start a thread on forgiveness from pwBPD?

[once removed]

i think if we have done something to damage trust, its incumbent upon us to rebuild it. whether that can be done depends on a lot of factors like really understanding how trust was damaged in the first place, and the magnitude of how the person we damaged trust with felt.

I get told I need to "fix this" and I "need to rebuild trust".

what is the "this"? its a very important part of the "how".

[Sandb2015]

One problem, it’s a rational and logical problem which directly conflicts with BPD it seems... .

When it’s possible to prove and it’s proven, the underlying lie that of course was switched around becomes unprovable in a BPD.

The original lie and all the imaginary stuff that went along with it or a byproduct of it that becomes a monster as opposed to the original mouse.

Yes, a lie is a lie and gaining trust becomes an almost impossible task. You end up tying to negate the big imaginary monsters under the bed. 

My love would accuse me of not being at work, she thought she was a psychic, so convinced. I got a security feed to show her I was there and she shrugged.

Trust takes time if it’s been broken and being consistent and thoughtful is key.  I would try to prove her every accusation, including the things she dreamed and said they happened or will.  Self fulfilling prophecy.

Dishonesties with sincere reasons that put you in a bad light and expose yourself is perfect position to catch a beating from a person with no empathy.

Sorry is a sorry and it should eventually be heard if sincere.

I became Sisyphus in my struggle and will continue to gain trust.

[5min]

I continually get called a liar and I have. It was to keep from having one of her episodes. I was "managing her reality" as she puts it. There in is the conundrum. If I don't do some form of filtering, then the episodes will increase in frequency and escalate to a point I can no longer tolerate.

On the point of rebuilding trust, I agree it has to be rebuilt. It is one sided though. I can not trust her to act in a civil manner, to not rage and to not hit. I feel all is lost. I'll never be able to rebuild her trust of me or mine of her.

[Sandb2015]

Good morning 5min,

"Episodes"--dysregulation, freakouts, the turn, impending storm etc... .

When that would happen to me, it would cause fear like watching a large tree falling towards me and my feet are stuck to the ground, the tree is falling very slowly and only catastrophe, disaster is coming. That caused desperation and I would apologize, capitulate, admit all perceived wrongdoings, defend, become angry, justify, and sometimes get angry.

Nothing to do, only have the tools to not make it worse, they are just words it seems that do come from some unfiltered place, it's our reaction that makes a fire roaring most of the times.

I was called a liar many times and the most simple, innocuous things, sincere feelings, kindness, etc., were meant with "I'm a liar".  We want so badly to turn that around, we start thinking we are just liars and want to get past that to be seen as the loving, caring, sincere people we are my the ones we love, some recognition.

We don't know exactly what they are feeling at that time and we think-I thought my words can change that.  I learned not to internalize the words and definelty not react as to get drawn in, it passes.

[itsmeSnap]

I feel all is lost. I'll never be able to rebuild her trust of me or mine of her.

Absolutes can be the bedrock of a decision well taken, or they can be a wall in the way of our true desires.

This is a hard choice to make, if you are still on the fence about it maybe not to make it tall and out of reinforced concrete just yet?

why do you feel there's no coming back from it?

It is one sided though

how so?

[once removed]

what sorts of things did you lie about? big things? little things?

[Sandb2015]

Good afternoon once removed,

Who are you asking, all of us?

[5min]

When I say all is lost …, I am reminded by her outbursts that she is not changing and feels she is not the one to change. She will never trust me. I can not trust her to behave.

One sided is that any change, any fault, and issues to work through are all mine. She claims nothing is her fault ever. She has a need to lay blame and makes sure everyone knows it is not her fault.

I am in my 50s. When I think about life in 10 or more years, I have no desire to spend any time being bitched at, handed my a55, or live in fear of a violent episode. So from that perspective, it is time to build that wall.

[5min]

I have no idea what "this" is in terms of what I am to fix. I can not fix the marriage that takes both accepting their part and I can not fix her mental illness.

As for lies, she would rant about her X until one day the line blurred and I have taken the brunt of the rants ever since. She goes on about other women, their looks, affairs, etc. tearing them down and going on about how she is much better to the point I don't talk about the people I work with. So I "hide women" in her eyes. I've not had an affair.

Then there is gas lighting. I finally realized the hours of ranting and tearing me down is gas lighting. I can't live in her world.

[once removed]

any update 5min? how are you doing now?

[5min]

Nothing changes. I am still the cause of all her problems. Our D is back at college so I expected an episode. Right on time I have hell to pay. There can be no trust with someone who is physically violent. 

[udontexist]

any update 5min?

What are you getting out of this relationship? Why are you in it?

[5min]

A lot of time has passed since I last posted, however there is no change with the rage, outbursts, accusations, and the constant litany of what I've done wrong along with what everyone else has done to her in the past. She never forgives. There is some jab daily which she says is just her saying how she feels. I guess she fills like being an ass. 

[5min]

I don't know why I stay in it. Maybe codependency. I get nothing out of it. Just a life of hell. Any bit of joy is stamped out. I was listening to Rick Warren. He said pain is the means to growth. I can't imagine what can be so important to learn as to be worth going through this BS.

[once removed]

A lot of time has passed since I last posted, however there is no change

youve found a support group. why not use it 

seriously though, nothing changes without changes. you love a very difficult person. its going to take a concerted, supported effort.

[PeteWitsend]

I get told I need to "fix this" and I "need to rebuild trust". So, can a person ever truly rebuild trust in the eyes of a pwBPD if they change reality to suit their emotions?

I would say "No."

Like Wrongturn1 said, they're not capable of trusting themselves, so they can't trust other people.  In your case, I'd say your partner has just latched on to those terms because they've seen they can effectively control you that way.

If their goal is to address their own anxiety and fear of abandonment, they try to achieve this by putting the burden on you (i.e. whoever is close to them), and making you responsible for it.  But really, they're asking the impossible of you, since nothing you do can really prove you're trustworthy... after all, you might be honest at this moment, but who's to say you won't lie and violate their trust tomorrow?   

You're essentially being asked to fill a bottomless pit.