Toxic Parents - it takes two

[Our abuse recovery guide]

It's been a while since I posted. I blamed a lot of my childhood trauma on my mother who was verbally and emotionally abusive. My father was the quiet "neutral" one who was my friend but mostly used me as a buffer for my mother. I took her abuse, but I fought back with the encouragement of my father which just caused my mother to lash out even more in anger. Anyway, I've had a sober look at my father and I almost wonder if he isn't even more toxic - he just hid it because my mother was the hysterical one.  Here are a few things;
1. When I pointed out abusive behaviour towards one of his grandchildren, rather than responding, he simply turned the volume of the radio up in order to end the conversation.
2. He has recently been generous with me in a way he never was before (it took one of his friends urging him to do so, as well as other family members to push him into it) and now he keeps acting out and when I call him on it he asks me whether I'm grateful for what he has done for me. He recently told me that I had only thanked him twice for what he had done. (that's a lie - I have actually thanked him more often and it's even in writing but I'm not gonna argue).
My father is a child and I'm starting to realize why I really didn't trust men at all for so many years. I have since met men who have very different approaches to generosity and helping people. I now realize that my father is probably the least generous person in the entire family and when he does do something for someone he makes sure that you "pay." The thing about him though is that he seems like a very even tempered person, I just feel as though he needs others to express his anger for him. These are the types of men I've dated unfortunately.

[caughtnreleased]

It's been a while since I posted. I blamed a lot of my childhood trauma on my mother who was verbally and emotionally abusive. My father was the quiet "neutral" one who was my friend but mostly used me as a buffer for my mother. I took her abuse, but I fought back with the encouragement of my father which just caused my mother to lash out even more in anger. Anyway, I've had a sober look at my father and I almost wonder if he isn't even more toxic - he just hid it because my mother was the hysterical one.  Here are a few things;
1. When I pointed out abusive behaviour towards one of his grandchildren, rather than responding, he simply turned the volume of the radio up in order to end the conversation.
2. He has recently been generous with me in a way he never was before (it took one of his friends urging him to do so, as well as other family members to push him into it) and now he keeps acting out and when I call him on it he asks me whether I'm grateful for what he has done for me. He recently told me that I had only thanked him twice for what he had done. (that's a lie - I have actually thanked him more often and it's even in writing but I'm not gonna argue).
My father is a child and I'm starting to realize why I really didn't trust men at all for so many years. I have since met men who have very different approaches to generosity and helping people. I now realize that my father is probably the least generous person in the entire family and when he does do something for someone he makes sure that you "pay." The thing about him though is that he seems like a very even tempered person, I just feel as though he needs others to express his anger for him. These are the types of men I've dated unfortunately.

[Goldcrest]

I can relate to this. It's tough when you realise they are both abusing you in different ways because then you have to contend with double the loss. I adored my father growing up but he gaslighted and idolised my mother. Some of the terrifying arguments we witnessed where she would put herself in grave danger, were never discussed afterwards and never were we taken to safety. We simply didn't exist in that moment. It was like we were regarded as an audience without feelings. The next day when they made up and were like lovesick teenagers we would still be traumatised but they would behave as if nothing had happened.

The money thing I can relate to to. Money is love in our family and my mother has never worked or had any independence financially. My father controls it all. She is shopping addicted so will waste money like you would not believe. If I ever get anything from them - which is rare - boy do I have to thank them constantly and be reminded of what "they have done for me". It's interesting what you say about your dad needing someone to carry his anger for him. I have wondered this about my father. That he chose my mother because she carries all the rage and damage that he can't own or express? What is your mum like with money? Is your dad generous with her?

[HappyChappy]

That must have been difficult for you. It’s common for someone with BPD to marry a passive person, because their will has to prevail. I also had a passive father and NPD older brother. The fights between my NPD and BPD scorched the earth, it was hell. But also , all my worst abuse was when I was left alone with the BPD / NPD as the youngest. Meaning I was angry that his passive approach and the fact he allowed me to get unfair treatment, just so he had “an easy life” but I’ve now gone full circle. I know he wanted to divorce, but stayed to protect me and my sister. I don’t think you can ever win if a BPD is in the dynamic. Also partners of a BPD can get PTSD which means they then avoid any triggers (e.g. turning up the radio). Don’t forget you and your father would have been groomed for many years before your childhood memories kick in. But that said, I don’t know your parents or you. I just know I got upset with my father , as you are, but now I’m at peace with it. Wishing you peace.

[caughtnreleased]

Hi Thanks for the response. I begged my father to get a divorce when I was younger and he was in such deep denial of my suffering that he would just laugh off everything i told him. It was extremely damaging to have one parent be abusive and the other to invalidate all my suffering. He latches on to my mother because she is actually the stronger more independent and social one. She also feeds him (food) in a way that is really unhealthy. Like he is a baby almost. He just sits there and gets fed. It's like a weird eating disorder she has. She gives him all the food that she denies herself because she is afraid of gaining weight. That too was a problem when I grew up. My father's appetite was always the most important in the room. I had to fight to feed myself. My mother always wanted me on a diet. 

In this latest exchange with my father where he accused me of being ungrateful I decided to suck up my anger and give him what he wanted which was gratitude. He was really happy - it felt as though I had given a man dying of thirst a drink of water. Rather sad.

[HappyChappy]

caughtnreleased
Does your mother have BPD ? If so, this means your father's emotional needs will not have been met, which can cause mental health issues, including eating disorders. Maybe being fed by your mother was his only way of getting effection, or your mother's way of showing it ? But you're right it is odd.

My father was also in denial which angered me for a while. That was until I read that the common way to deal with an undiagnosed BPD is FIFO, fit in or f off. To fit in you have to use denial , unless you were all aware of the tools on this forum. Where you aware of the diagnosis ?
Do you think things would have been better or worse if your father just disappeared for good ?

What do you think will give you closure on your frustrations towards your Dad ?

[caughtnreleased]

Hi HappyCHappy,
These are great questions. There is no diagnosis of my mother having BPD but she has very strong traits somewhat coupled with narcissism... so I go back and forth. My mother NEVEr showed any vulnerability and any time anyone did show vulnerability she attacked. So I'm not sure if this narcissism or BPD. THe one moment that indicated to me how sick she was, was a time when I was 8 and she raged at me in front of my grandfather who later took me on his lap and sat with me for a while as I calmed down. The next day my mother came to see me with a suspicious and mean look in her eyes and told me that my grandfather had told her that I was shaking. My mother's eyes narrowed at me and suspiciously asked: "Why were you shaking?" as if I had somehow betrayed her. I had no answer for her as I was not even aware that I had been physically shaking from that abusive episode. Everyone was in denial of my mother's behaviour. The one glimpse that an adult realized something was wrong was that episode with my grandfather who clearly tried to tell my mother that what she was doing was harming me. 

My father especially denied everything. He blamed her bad behaviour on the fact that she came from a different culture than his. That was his only explanation. When I would F off as you put it - which I started to do in my 30's - as in really create a rupture where I refused to stay with them when I was in town - my father's job was to pull me back in, to come talk to me and convince me to "fit in". I realize this was the job he had done all along. He kept me from f-ing off sooner. No one's emotional needs were met in our family.

How can give closure towards my dad? It's hard because I know that none of his needs are met, and it feels weird for me, his child to meet his emotional needs. A friend of mine who lost a parent recently did remind me though that our time with our parents is limited and that we need to let a lot of things go. It's what I'm working on. I don't really know how to continue following up with him. it's awkward because his reaction really was like someone who was dying of thirst. I suppose just expressing my gratitude to him whenever he does things for me will give him a lot of what he needs and has never gotten.

[caughtnreleased]

Hi HappyChappy,
I also just realized what you are saying re: fit in or f-off. And my father choosing to stay. I don't know what would have happened if he had asked for a divorce. I remember once when I was really very young, maybe three or four, my mother and him were in a heated argument. My father was gesticulating as he shouted, and as he gesticulated his hand may have come very close to her. She feigned being hit by him. She threw herself onto the floor screaming that he had hit her. Although I was 4 years old, I remember how incredibly wrong this was, and that my mother was a liar. This was also in front of my sister who remembers it exactly this way. Children see through the lies of adults. Imagine there had been a divorce. I don't know. I sometimes wish that if he had left I at least would have been validated by an adult who agreed that my mother's behaviour was unacceptable. He never did that. He mostly just went along with it all. It has caused me to not trust myself. The effect was for me to be gaslit.

Thanks for pointing these things out. People don,t always do harm on purpose. They sometimes do the best they can with what they have.

[HappyChappy]

People don,t always do harm on purpose. They sometimes do the best they can with what they have.

Good point.  But a punch hurts just the same whatever the reason behind it.

My father also insisted we all “fit in” and “keep the peace”. My mother was also from another country, but he was at a loss his whole life as to why his wife was the way she was. I read a BPD will chose a partner in the way a con artist chooses their target. They look for easily manipulated men, who tend to be honest, loyal and do the right thing i.e. stick with them and clean up their mess. The issue we kids have, is they are loyal to their BPD before their kids, as their partners have groomed them before we ever arrive. I like to remind myself my Dad was a good man he was just corrupted. Would any of that be true of your father ?

The other common mix is a BPD/NPD combo like Bonnie and Cyld or Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor, which would have been worse, trust me. They super enable each other or at continually at war. What really helped me was learning about radical acceptance, have you looked at anything like that or Gestalt theory (a form of acceptance). Do you have access to a Therapist ? Failing that chocolates fountains with marshmallows also help.