Help!

[Broken Record]

Hello all,

Long time reader, first time poster. So grateful for this site, thank you all who contribute. Boards like this seem to be the only place where people understand what you’re going through, such a place of respite.. I wanted to put up a post of my situation and get any advice.

So have been married for 20+ years, a very rocky and high conflict relationship (due to family drama) from the start which began with a teen pregnancy then another 2 not long after. My wife who I suspect has BPD and I had been fairly “stable” for a good 5 or so years of the 20+ years.

About 2 years ago, she had a complete personality change after a breakdown she had. I suspected that she was having an emotional affair - found a plethora of text messages, phone calls etc to a guy at the martial arts gym we go to. She said after a terrible life and marriage, she wanted to “work on herself”.

She said she needed space and time to figure stuff out and started attending the gym for 15-20 hours a week during weeknights (up from 1 hr a week). This guy she was texting / calling also attended the same amount. The interactions between them that I observed were not that of just friends.

I was severely codependent trying to fix the marriage. Changed my entire lifestyle and work habits (I was a chronic over-worker after years of almost poverty), lost a tonne of weight etc. At this stage our libidos had skyrocketed and we were at it like animals everyday. Needless to say, our relationship was in chaos. Many ultimatums were thrown by me of separation if she didn’t stop the affair etc, she denied it, said I was jealous and insecure, they’re just friends - she didn’t stop seeing him snd it just made things worse between us.

Took me a while but I stumbled across BPD and the light bulb went off. Our entire relationship made sense after that. I figured I had entered the devaluation stage.

Shes been seeing a therapist over the last year for her depression and suicidal ideations not to mention to slander me to anyone that’d listen so shes not been diagnosed, more receiving counselling / support.

I myself have been seeing a therapist (on her request to solve my “insecurity” issues), but its been helpful to work on my codependency. Reading A LOT and have been practicing validation techniques. Half way through walking on eggshells at the moment. I have a new found appreciation for psychology. Have told her she might have borderline and to ask for a diagnosis. She told me to go get a dx for narcissism in exchange

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[Broken Record]

Sorry didn’t seem to have posted in full…

Tried marriage counselling for 3 sessions, counsellor gave up and said you both want different things, going to be hard to move forward and gave up.

Anyhow, I’m at the point of giving up and separating after all the abuse, devaluation etc, her continuing the emotional affair (I believe the guy is her new FP, needs him for regulation and he feeds it).

Have broached separation with her a few times and it really triggers her fears of abandonment. “I hate you don’t leave me” rings a bell.

My main dilemma for me is my middle child is in the final year of high school, youngest still has a few years to go. Have been back and forth with wanting to wait it out until the middle one is done and still trying to get thinks working by some miracle, or biting the bullet and moving on now.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. TIA

[M604V]

Hi BR, welcome to the club. You’re among friends here. I’ll do my best to weigh in on what you posted because a lot of it resonates with what I’ve experienced. I’m the end this is just my opinion; take what you want and leave the rest, as they say…

Like you I’ve had a relatively rocky marriage. A lot of drama, turmoil and stress. It started from a place of weakness and never really gained its footing. It’s been an uphill slog for 15+ years. I love her and our children dearly, but I have to think that we’ve put a ton of miles in the marriage, a lot more than a “normal” couple.

Good on you for recognizing your own faults and weaknesses. We all have them, for sure, and figuring that stuff will certainly free you from a lot of unhealthy thinking.

One thing that came to mind is: *WHY* are you exploring these issues? What do you hope to find? For me the bonds of codependency were tough to break. I’m better but certainly not 100% healed. Point being I’ve noticed throughout my marriage that I would often engage in what I’ll call “back door codependency”.  Example: I attend therapy to learn and understand my codependency issues, but I’m doing it SO THAT SHE’LL NOTICE AND LOVE ME.  Is that really going to work? Am I doing it for the right reasons or am I just trying to buy her attention?

I too have seriously contemplating divorce. Both of are children are still young (11 and 8) and that definitely complicates things.I don’t want to be divorced, per se, and I don’t want to put my children through that. But, it’s not the worst thing in the world. Either way they’re going to model whatever our example is. Which example do I want to set: 1) mom and dad raised us at 30% capacity because they were too scared to face their own issues, or 2) dad stood up for himself and prioritized health and happiness over maintaining a bullsh!t status quo?

My folks weren’t very happy for most of my youth. Divorce was narrowly averted when I was 15 and they eventually split when I was in my mid 20s. From my perspective I can tell you that it sucked either way. Sure I was raised my two parents, but once they split I looked back at my youth and realized, “Oh, that was just a big show wasn’t it? None of that was real.”  Either way the divorce will be painful. At least divorcing now gives them a chance to recover, instead of looking back at a tumultuous youth and realizing that there’s nothing they can do to go back and make it better.

I’ve found that the more I’ve learned about myself, her, BPD, substance abuse, codependency, well, the harder it’s gotten. It’s like the more I’ve built myself up, learned, healed, etc. the more I can recognize this stuff for that it is: undeserved abuse and manipulation.

I’ve learned that the issues between us aren’t isolated aberrations but are part of a much larger pattern that I am incapable of breaking. *We* could work on them, sure, with a reasonable chance for success. But I think a key trait of BPD is the inability or unwillingness for the sufferer to acknowledge that they’re afflicted. Thus the chances for success are very very slim. In the meantime you’re doomed to chase your tail, destined to roll the stone up the hill only to see it tumble down again.

I love her dearly, but I’m not getting any younger. Neither are you. I’d love for her to make her peace with this sh!t and we can get to work on fixing it. Today. Now. I would stop everything to go on that journey with her.

But I can’t control the outcome, as much as I would like. It’s trite, sure, but marriage is a two way street. It’s simply IMPOSSIBLE to be in a healthy, functional marriage by yourself. It demands cooperation and it doesn’t sound like you’re getting it.

[Broken Record]

One thing that came to mind is: *WHY* are you exploring these issues? What do you hope to find? For me the bonds of codependency were tough to break. I’m better but certainly not 100% healed. Point being I’ve noticed throughout my marriage that I would often engage in what I’ll call “back door codependency”.  Example: I attend therapy to learn and understand my codependency issues, but I’m doing it SO THAT SHE’LL NOTICE AND LOVE ME.  Is that really going to work? Am I doing it for the right reasons or am I just trying to buy her attention?

I too have seriously contemplating divorce. Both of are children are still young (11 and 8) and that definitely complicates things.I don’t want to be divorced, per se, and I don’t want to put my children through that. But, it’s not the worst thing in the world. Either way they’re going to model whatever our example is. Which example do I want to set: 1) mom and dad raised us at 30% capacity because they were too scared to face their own issues, or 2) dad stood up for himself and prioritized health and happiness over maintaining a bullsh!t status quo?

My folks weren’t very happy for most of my youth. Divorce was narrowly averted when I was 15 and they eventually split when I was in my mid 20s. From my perspective I can tell you that it sucked either way. Sure I was raised my two parents, but once they split I looked back at my youth and realized, “Oh, that was just a big show wasn’t it? None of that was real.”  Either way the divorce will be painful. At least divorcing now gives them a chance to recover, instead of looking back at a tumultuous youth and realizing that there’s nothing they can do to go back and make it better.

But I can’t control the outcome, as much as I would like. It’s trite, sure, but marriage is a two way street. It’s simply IMPOSSIBLE to be in a healthy, functional marriage by yourself. It demands cooperation and it doesn’t sound like you’re getting it.

Thanks M604V. Appreciate your input and insight.

For me it was initially serious codependency that motivated me to improve myself in an attempt to fix the marriage. Now I feel its less so that and more keeping up my habits,  lifestyle and therapy for myself.

Coming from a family with divorced parents certainly gives you a unique insight. I myself an stuck in the fear that it will seriously jeopardise the final year of school for my middle child. Not to mention the worry of leaving them in the care of their mother in this state even though I know she has been an amazing mother to them.

Everyday I have to weigh the effect its having on my mental health and keep moving from milestone to milestone wondering if I can tolerate this situation for another year vs putting them through agony of a broken home.

Its a daily struggle, knowing shes leaving 3-4 hours a night to spend time away from the family just to regulate her pain through her FP.

Its painful to be invisible, be treated as if you’re nothing, a demon undeserving of love. I definitely haven’t been the best husband through the years. Her splitting episodes caused a lot of conflict with me not understanding where its coming from.

Agree with your sentiments, at this stage I’d give a limb to get on a path to healing the family together but alas I have come to accept it for what it is.

May I ask if you’ve also been split black at this point or still in the idealisation / devaluation dynamic? Is there another “love interest” in the picture in your situation?

[M604V]

Thanks for the reply, sorry for taking so long to write back.

Glad to hear that your therapy and self care are working. At the end of the day it is about you, you’re the only thing in this world over which you have complete control so there’s no better target for your attempts at healing. Does it feel weird to you though, that you’re not  working on yourself for the marriage but in spite of it?

I wrestle with that, like why am I living two lives and half-a$sing them both? Why not just break free from this lukewarm marriage and go 100% on the life I want?

Certainly no one can tell you what your priorities are re: your children, their living situation and their schooling. But I would ask you this (and myself at the same time): what’s the payoff? You suck it up, get them through their teenage years in one piece, then what? Is there a pot of gold waiting at the end of the rainbow?

You’re obviously aware that she’s having some type of affair, platonic or otherwise. How do you keep it together? How have you avoided launching into a homicidal rage? For me that would be the final nail. I’ve wondered whether or not she’s cheating, but realistically I doubt that’s the case. I don’t think she could muster the energy to engage in an outside relationship. I almost wish she would though, so at least a lot of this “gray” would then be made clearly “black”.  (What is “FP”, by the way?)

One thing that has helped me through the years is to fully consider the prospect of every possible outcome. For so long I denied the very idea of divorce or some other doomsday ending to this story. I’m doing so I really only availed myself of, say, 75% of all possible solutions, i.e. separation, counseling, religion but not divorce. So it was like I was limiting my options. Once I made my peace with *all* possible scenarios I could make decisions more clearly. And once I made some of this difficult decisions (like filing for a restraining order and removing her from the house when she relapsed on alcohol) I could see that they weren’t that bad. Unpleasant and unfortunate for sure, but the world didn’t stop turning.

Have I been “painted black”? Not sure. Not entirely sure what it means. We coexist, occasionally we get along and when the stars align she’s actually, like, into me. But I’ve stopped chasing those times when she’s into me. I feel reduced to a source of income and a convenient whipping boy. We’ve both been up for hours and she hasn’t yet spoken to me or otherwise acknowledged my existence. Within the next week we’ll have a fight, she’ll ignore me for four days, we’ll have makeup sex but will not talk about whatever it is we need to “make up” for. And around we go…

[Broken Record]

Glad to hear that your therapy and self care are working. At the end of the day it is about you, you’re the only thing in this world over which you have complete control so there’s no better target for your attempts at healing. Does it feel weird to you though, that you’re not  working on yourself for the marriage but in spite of it?

I wrestle with that, like why am I living two lives and half-a$sing them both? Why not just break free from this lukewarm marriage and go 100% on the life I want?

Certainly no one can tell you what your priorities are re: your children, their living situation and their schooling. But I would ask you this (and myself at the same time): what’s the payoff? You suck it up, get them through their teenage years in one piece, then what? Is there a pot of gold waiting at the end of the rainbow?

You’re obviously aware that she’s having some type of affair, platonic or otherwise. How do you keep it together? How have you avoided launching into a homicidal rage? For me that would be the final nail. I’ve wondered whether or not she’s cheating, but realistically I doubt that’s the case. I don’t think she could muster the energy to engage in an outside relationship. I almost wish she would though, so at least a lot of this “gray” would then be made clearly “black”.  (What is “FP”, by the way?)

One thing that has helped me through the years is to fully consider the prospect of every possible outcome. For so long I denied the very idea of divorce or some other doomsday ending to this story. I’m doing so I really only availed myself of, say, 75% of all possible solutions, i.e. separation, counseling, religion but not divorce. So it was like I was limiting my options. Once I made my peace with *all* possible scenarios I could make decisions more clearly. And once I made some of this difficult decisions (like filing for a restraining order and removing her from the house when she relapsed on alcohol) I could see that they weren’t that bad. Unpleasant and unfortunate for sure, but the world didn’t stop turning.

Have I been “painted black”? Not sure. Not entirely sure what it means. We coexist, occasionally we get along and when the stars align she’s actually, like, into me. But I’ve stopped chasing those times when she’s into me. I feel reduced to a source of income and a convenient whipping boy. We’ve both been up for hours and she hasn’t yet spoken to me or otherwise acknowledged my existence. Within the next week we’ll have a fight, she’ll ignore me for four days, we’ll have makeup sex but will not talk about whatever it is we need to “make up” for. And around we go…

All good, thanks for the reply.

Working on myself not for the sake of the marriage is whats provided me some semblance of a self-esteem but yes it does feel weird as I haven’t had any for as far as I can remember. A problem from childhood really, not so much as the marriage so I try to take the advice of those who do know self love and pretend it doesn’t feel strange (fake it till you make it type of thing).

The living life half assed is the limbo problem - stuck in indecision. A place where many of us tend to be including myself. You’ll make the right decision in your own time - thats something I’ve come to realise. In my mind the transformation is not unlike that required of a pwbpd where the pain of not changing surpasses the pain of change - thats when it’ll happen. Most likely it’ll also be when you’ve released yourself from the trauma bond that is your relationship.

Re. Keeping it together - I haven’t been. Its been a rollercoaster on the 5 stages of grief - losing the person who used to be your SO - the version that idealised you and made you believe you’re their world, they’re truly dead. I feel like I’m nearing the stage of acceptance and trying to figure out what that looks like for me.

FP - a Favourite Person. The person the pwbpd idealises and places into god status. They use this person to regulate their inner emotional turmoil. Quite often its a romantic partner but not always need be, could be a friend or family member. The pwbpd idealises them until such a point they realise the FP cannot live up to their standards so then proceeds to devalue them and forget they were anything good to begin with - a psychological pattern called splitting. Once you’re “painted black”, in their minds they see you as the devil and often wish not to acknowledge your existence.

You were likely your wife’s FP, idealised and now being devalued. A pwbpd always needs to latch onto someone to idealise to regulate themselves, its possible she may be idealising someone - if you notice shes in a good mood for no apparent reason, chances are shes had an interaction with an FP - it could still be you if at times shes calling you wonderful things and saying how much you mean to her.

I get that, I’m also just an ATM machine that holds the family together for a lack of better options. I expect my SO to cut and run as soon as she has secured a better option.

The make up sex you describe is likely from you triggering her fear of abandonment. I too notice that when I withdraw from my SO, she used to start initiating sex. Its a way to keep us in check so we don’t leave them.

Of course, don’t understand your full situation, just postulating from my experience. It seems your SO has issues with substance abuse - you setting boundaries was probably the best thing you could do - something I’m yet to establish. This FP attachment from my SO drives an addictive behaviour that is quite similar to substance abuse - can see when withdrawal happens and when she is “medicated” very clearly.

[M604V]

Yes, it is strange for sure. I’m sure those of “us”, those on the other side of BPD, have a lot in common. Self-care means/meant nothing to me. I had no idea what it was. I too learned from an early age that it was never about my relationship with myself. It was all about how other felt about me that determined how I felt about myself. I don’t have self-esteem issues in the traditional sense.  I don’t talk poorly about myself or anything like that, but I definitely struggle with determining what I deserve and want and drawing a hard line around those values.

My wife’s sobriety coincided with the early stages of my time with my current therapist. Well, no longer current because she recently retired. Anyway I remember her asking me “What sort of things do you do for yourself?” I replied with some basic hobbies and activities, stuff I enjoy doing. She quickly picked that apart, however, and revealed that even my hobbies aren’t pursued for my own pleasure. They’re done for the approval of others. Woodworking: I’ve never made anything for myself. Golf: I almost always golf with friends because I can’t say no to the invitation for fear there won’t be another one. I’m getting better, but old habits die hard.

I agree with you: change happens when it is the easier option. The more attractive of the two scenarios: grow and change or stay the same. I’ve spent many years waiting for the scales to finally tip in my favor. As long as I served and honored and obeyed, if I just packed my resume with good and faithful deeds then eventually the universe would shift, right? The order of things would line up just the way I want. I’m starting to accept that’s not how life works.

What are you doing to prepare yourself? I’m trying to remain peaceful, stay in control of myself and not expect things that probably aren’t going to happen. I’m trying to just be “dad” without being “husband”.  I’m trying to practice doing the things with the kids that I should have been doing along, except I was too busy chasing my wife around, or running from her, or trying to stamp out another fire.

I don’t know that my wife has any FPs. Her mother is probably one, to a degree. I always felt like they use each other for emotional validation. I may have been one at one point, but I can’t actually recall a time when I felt idealized or idolized by her. She tends to do the opposite of idealization. It’s like she writes everyone off. She’s very negative and pessimistic, perhaps with good reason. Her initial reaction is to find reasons not to get close to people or situations. She’s surrounded by a high, thick wall for sure.

She did have substance issues. I’m fact she probably still does but doesn’t fall into a traditional category. She’s been sober from alcohol for 3+ years but still has various meds prescribed to her. Downs cough medicine before bed. We have a cabinet full of various supplements, pills, etc. I suspect that she’s drawn to the idea of the quick fix, the magic little pill. I was so hopeful that sobriety would clear out a lot of the garbage between us. It hasn’t. It’s just as bad as it was then, just less chaotic.

[Broken Record]

Yes, it is strange for sure. I’m sure those of “us”, those on the other side of BPD, have a lot in common. Self-care means/meant nothing to me. I had no idea what it was. I too learned from an early age that it was never about my relationship with myself. It was all about how other felt about me that determined how I felt about myself. I don’t have self-esteem issues in the traditional sense.  I don’t talk poorly about myself or anything like that, but I definitely struggle with determining what I deserve and want and drawing a hard line around those values.

My wife’s sobriety coincided with the early stages of my time with my current therapist. Well, no longer current because she recently retired. Anyway I remember her asking me “What sort of things do you do for yourself?” I replied with some basic hobbies and activities, stuff I enjoy doing. She quickly picked that apart, however, and revealed that even my hobbies aren’t pursued for my own pleasure. They’re done for the approval of others. Woodworking: I’ve never made anything for myself. Golf: I almost always golf with friends because I can’t say no to the invitation for fear there won’t be another one. I’m getting better, but old habits die hard.

I agree with you: change happens when it is the easier option. The more attractive of the two scenarios: grow and change or stay the same. I’ve spent many years waiting for the scales to finally tip in my favor. As long as I served and honored and obeyed, if I just packed my resume with good and faithful deeds then eventually the universe would shift, right? The order of things would line up just the way I want. I’m starting to accept that’s not how life works.

What are you doing to prepare yourself? I’m trying to remain peaceful, stay in control of myself and not expect things that probably aren’t going to happen. I’m trying to just be “dad” without being “husband”.  I’m trying to practice doing the things with the kids that I should have been doing along, except I was too busy chasing my wife around, or running from her, or trying to stamp out another fire.

I don’t know that my wife has any FPs. Her mother is probably one, to a degree. I always felt like they use each other for emotional validation. I may have been one at one point, but I can’t actually recall a time when I felt idealized or idolized by her. She tends to do the opposite of idealization. It’s like she writes everyone off. She’s very negative and pessimistic, perhaps with good reason. Her initial reaction is to find reasons not to get close to people or situations. She’s surrounded by a high, thick wall for sure.

She did have substance issues. I’m fact she probably still does but doesn’t fall into a traditional category. She’s been sober from alcohol for 3+ years but still has various meds prescribed to her. Downs cough medicine before bed. We have a cabinet full of various supplements, pills, etc. I suspect that she’s drawn to the idea of the quick fix, the magic little pill. I was so hopeful that sobriety would clear out a lot of the garbage between us. It hasn’t. It’s just as bad as it was then, just less chaotic.

Did you enjoy doing those activities/ hobbies? If so, the acts in themselves may be fulfilling for yourself. Me personally I tend to enjoy some hobbies but in most cases it feels like I’m just ticking a box in societal standards.

The universe definitely doesn’t work that way, unfortunately no matter what you do, it has a way of kicking you in the nads over and over again. Part of “growth” is probably one answer I suppose.

If you’ve been idealised by a pwbpd, you’d definitely feel it. They treat you in a way you’ll never have been by anyone, not just romantic partners. I know there are different categories of bpd, but do you think your SO might be suffering from Complex PTSD not BPD? Apparently they look very similar, but a hallmark of bpd is to use people around them for emotional regulation, but again not passing judgement as I don’t know the circumstances, just some thoughts that came to mind.

What am I doing to prep? Just trying to focus on keeping myself together and improve my mental health. Yes it is a very strange feeling just playing dad and not husband. My wife sleeps in another room most of the week, being in the same living spaces just brings constant tension.