This small thing would help...

[really]

I have said it on this board before but half a dozen words from my ex telling me when it is that she started her relationship with my replacement would help me move on.

I asked numerous times.   Got no response.

Have done nothing to interfere in her new relationship, have not been vindictive or done anything to reveal her lies and cheating to the people in her life... .  

But simply to know when (relative to all the statements of love, commitment and having a family together) it started would do a lot to help me leave the sorry mess in the past.

To type the words "it started [insert date]" does not seem a big task.      She manages to hold down her job, function with the rest of the world... .  How can typing those few words be so impossible.       She knows that I am aware she cheated.  Whatever shame / guilt etc she feels is already there.  How can typing a few words exaccerbate it.

Knowing the truth would set me free.  I know it to my core.

[id-crisis]

Knowing the truth would set me free.  I know it to my core.

She probably knows that instinctively and isn't ready or capable or compassionate enough to set you free

[Jay08]

Yea but why would that help you?

Fact is she did start a relationship with him. You dont need her to tell you that, when you already know it.

I know the feeling though, its closure you want.

She doesnt want to give you it, by giving you closure it ensures you move on and she risks losing you for good in her mind. Shes not going to let that happen.

If you really do need to know, why dont you figure out yourself? Do some snooping, ask a mutual friend, then let it go brother.

[BentNotBroken]

If she is anything like my BPD ex, it doesn't matter what she says. Everything out of her mouth is either a lie or a manipulation. Everything. I wish I were exaggerating, but I found out the hard way many times.

You will never get closure from a BPD. They are incapable of the emotional maturity to respect you that much. It's part of the disorder.

[really]

It cannot be because she does not want to let me go... .  she got engaged to the guy, tells me she "loves him more than anything or anyone"... .   of course she said the same about me... .  

The reason I want to know is simply to work out when it was during the roller coaster ride that I lost her.   She was talking about having a family with me right until the end and only 2 days before she ended it went out of her way to reassure me her mother was ok about the fact I was divorced (as result of ex wife's adultery 8 years before).

For my own peace of mind I simply want to know when those statements were just lies... .  she dragged me through a year and 4 months of mess with her previous relationship.  

In basic terms I want to know how few days / weeks it was just her and me...  I suspect none... .  I suspect triangulation (read definition) occured right through our relationship.

She manages to cover up her deception very well so no one else will know.

Sometimes there are things in life that are are important to others and which cost you nothing.    This is important to me.  The truth from her costs her nothing.

[FindingMe2011]

I have said it on this board before but half a dozen words from my ex telling me when it is that she started her relationship with my replacement would help me move on.

She knows that I am aware she cheated.

If you are aware she cheated, and she already knows this. Im not sure, how knowing all the details is going to help you out. Is this what you are waiting for to start your grieving? Your going to have to allow yourself, to feel your way through this one, sooner or later, and begin to let go. Pain is hard to deal with, I feel ya, been there. Bringing yourself to face this head-on, is the only healthy way. Everything else is going to lead to more dysfunction.

Whatever shame / guilt etc she feels is already there.  How can typing a few words exacerbate it.

If she is BPD, then she lives daily with these feelings. You on the other hand, are just starting to feel the pain that you have buried your entire life.  Interactions with her, at this point, are going to do you more harm than good. Its time to take care of the person, you least know how to take care of, YOU. Stay close to friend/family.

Knowing the truth would set me free.  I know it to my core.

The words you type, tell me you already know. There are many here that can help you navigate through this. Start being honest with yourself, and your healing begins. I wish you well,   PEACE

[really]

FindingMe --- yes I know she cheated.   What I don't know is when it started.   We are all different.  I have been grieving for a long time already.  There is simply one thing that I need to leave it completely in the past.     One small thing.

[FindingMe2011]

It cannot be because she does not want to let me go.   she got engaged to the guy, tells me she "loves him more than anything or anyone".    of course she said the same about me.  

The reason I want to know is simply to work out when it was during the roller coaster ride that I lost her.   She was talking about having a family with me right until the end and only 2 days before she ended it went out of her way to reassure me her mother was ok about the fact I was divorced (as result of ex wife's adultery 8 years before).

Seems as if you were heading for a repeat performance, possibly. Maybe one day you can consider this 'dodging the bullet".

The truth from her costs her nothing.

Maybe it does. In the black and white thinking, this makes her all bad. To a person with a part time self, this is annihilation, or death.  If nothing else you are showing her how important this is to you, and this is her tool to control you, and keep the dance going, for now and your feeding right into it.  I wish you well   PEACE

[AmericanTemplar]

But why do you need to know?  Are you trying to figure out what it is that YOU did to drive her to cheat on you?  There is no rationale to any of it other than her BPD.  I don't see how any piece of information beyond that is going to change anything.  How would that piece of information set you free?  I don't get it... .  

[FindingMe2011]

I have been grieving for a long time already.

And the fact that we are all different (and also, a lot the same) tells us there is no time line for our healing. Where do you think you are in the grieving process?

What I don't know is when it started.

There is simply one thing that I need to leave it completely in the past.     One small thing.

Over time it will fade, but chances are you will remember in some form or fashion, as you should. You seem to be in denial/ bargaining.  Breaking a trauma bond, is much in the same as morning the death of a loved one, Its a loss, and a painful one, I understand. Learning how to lean into the pain, instead of finding ways to avoid it, will pay big dividends. The more you do this, the easier it gets. This is the way to move forward, not hearing some date. Chances are pretty good, you could come up with a date, and its probably fairly close.  I wish you well, PEACE

[really]

The date is pretty important.  I am in a financial mess as a result of committing to a business as a result of her telling me she was absolutely committed to us and telling me she needed me.    As a consequence I am now on the other side of the world and living with my parents. 

I don't want her to feel any worse than she does (although she has absolutely no remorse whatsoever).  It would simply help me understand whether it was just one big lie from start to finish or whether there was a short period where there was no one else involved.

I have tried not to go over this in my mind.        That is the one thing I need not to.   

[seeking balance]

The reason I want to know is simply to work out when it was during the roller coaster ride that I lost her.   She was talking about having a family with me right until the end and only 2 days before she ended it went out of her way to reassure me her mother was ok about the fact I was divorced (as result of ex wife's adultery 8 years before).

This is a simple false belief on your part - you are assuming you and she see the relationship the same way... .  pwBPD "act as if" many times... .  but under the surface a lot is going on you may not have ever realized and your ex may not have the ability to understand much less articulate to you.

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening.

When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits.

Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.

For my own peace of mind I simply want to know when those statements were just lies... .  she dragged me through a year and 4 months of mess with her previous relationship. 

are you sure you are not just upset that YOU made this choice to go through this only to be discarded?  I know for me, I certainly got stuck being angry that I went through chaos only to be tossed aside once it should have gotten easier.

In basic terms I want to know how few days / weeks it was just her and me...   I suspect none... .  I suspect triangulation (read definition) occured right through our relationship.

knowing this does not change the fact the relationship is over - it is just your brain holding onto something to avoid going into the full letting go... .  letting go is very hard and very sad and we all do it when we are ready. 

She manages to cover up her deception very well so no one else will know.

ahh... .  well, people know - but they are not nearly as emotionally effected as you... .  thus they may not act like they care.  I know this frustration well as my ex is basically still friends with my past friends - do they know the truth, yes... .  but they are not nearly as invested as me.

Sometimes there are things in life that are are important to others and which cost you nothing.    This is important to me.  The truth from her costs her nothing.

If she could tell the truth you probably wouldn't be on this website.  Think about it - you are asking a mentally ill person with an unstable sense of self who uses maladaptive coping methods (black/white thinking, etc) to simply survive - do you really think this admission would cost her nothing?

I am sorry you are hurting really - and I don't say these things to hurt you.  I so wish I could take away your pain... .  but only by leaning into it - accepting that you may not ever know all the facts leading up to your breakup and choose to let go.   No, it isn't easy - but it will give you peace when you can accept this.

Your ex is mentally ill - what you want is not possible.  Just because she is still alive doesn't mean she is capable of giving you closure.  My good friend's husband died suddenly about the same time my ex left (for the last time)... .  I realized at some point that she and I had more in common in our grief process because neither of us had a neat, tidy closure for our grief.

Hang in there,

SB

[BentNotBroken]

It hurts. It sucks. And she will never give you what you seek.

In her head, the infidelity didn't happen. At this point she probably believes that it was you that cheated on her. How is that possible? BPD is a MENTAL ILLNESS, and a very serious one. Only a tiny bit away from true psychosis.

You could have been the best guy/gal in the world, and the best SO in the world and it would not matter to a BPD. As soon as they get triggered enough, and their own abandonment fear takes over, they will move on to the next one, painting you black with all of their negative emotions and behavior. They cannot accept that the problem is them, hence they almost always blame someone else for the demise of their relationships.

Was it all just a big lie? Yes and No. BPD's operate primarily off of what they are feeling "at the moment." At the moment she said she loved you, she felt it. Nine seconds later, the feeling might have changed. A month later when she raged and said I was a worthless POS, she felt that too. The next morning when she apologized for the rage, she felt that too. Later that day when she raged again, she raged because she felt like raging at me... .  and so on... .  ad infinitum.

It is a little hard to wrap your head around, because it doesn't make rational sense. How could someone be so flaky? That is the nature of the disorder, BPD's are unable to properly regulate their emotions. With BPD feelings=facts. If they feel it, it must be a fact. With non-BPD's, facts or our perception of facts usually influence our emotions, not the other way around.

[really]

Knowing the truth would help me.  I know it would.  I told her that it would help me move on.   She made it clear she is happy in her new relationship.  I don't have BPD (probably some pretty major reactive depression for the last year yes but BPD no) so I struggle to understand it.   

It didn't have to end this badly.   A few mins from her to end things with some openness and honesty.    Yes, and of couse I know that is the problem with the disorder.

I need to get off these boards now.  I really appreciate the support but I need to get clear of all things connected with BPD for a while.

When she fell in love with me (or felt it for that moment), she told me to read the following poem as it summed up how she felt about me... .  

Reading it still makes me sad.

You walked lightly into my life.

Captivating and lovely to my mind.

At first, I never cared to know who you were.

Now I do not even know who I am without you.

You kissed me,

I felt my world change.

You held me,

I felt my heart awaken.

You loved me,

and my soul was born anew.

You walked lightly into my life.

Now my heart knows who you are,

and every breath

and every step I take down lonely roads,

your hand is my staff,

your strength my shelter,

your passion my awakening.

You walked lightly into my life,

and all my pain you took as your own,

and all my fears you cast into the sea,

all my doubt lost in your eyes.

You walked lightly into my life,

and no matter if you choose to stay or go,

my life is forever changed.

Just because you loved me for a moment in time

and because I choose to love you for the rest of mine.

It was the last line that I believed more than anything and that was the thing that kept me.   It was as Seeking Balance said the reason I went through chaos... .    end result was that i was tossed aside once it should have gotten easier.

[seeking balance]

Knowing the truth would help me.  I know it would.  I told her that it would help me move on.   She made it clear she is happy in her new relationship.  I don't have BPD (probably some pretty major reactive depression for the last year yes but BPD no) so I struggle to understand it.   

The truth is she cannot be the one to save you.  You are expecting a mentally ill person to save you right now - can you see this?

Let's start at the beginning maybe to see if we can help you understand... .  take a look at the criteria for BPD - what criteria does she have that makes you think she has BPD in the first place? 

[myself]

Assume the worst, hope for whatever 'best' would've been, and leave it in the past.

What else can you do? She's not giving you the answer (and may not ever do so), and as others said, who knows if whatever she said would even be true. Cut yourself free from this. As painful as it may be, accepting it for what it is and moving on is best.

While some details are missing, you see the bigger picture, right?

[id-crisis]

It cannot be because she does not want to let me go... .  she got engaged to the guy, tells me she "loves him more than anything or anyone"... .   

They typically like to keep the door open in case they need future rescuing or supply! 

[really]

The door is closed... .  I am on the other side of the world, I burned my boats so there was no way back there.

Johnny, why do I want to know that... .  I know it changes nothing.  it would simply help me know when in the timeline of the roller coaster it went wrong.   Day one is probably the most honest answer.

"Assume the worst, hope for whatever 'best' would've been"  There is no worst or best.  It would certainly hurt more if it was earlier than later but perhaps more understandable.  I certainly don't want to rage at her.   I don't even want to communicate with her about it.   

Anyway, I did truly love her so I need to simply let her live her life and learn her own lessons along the way.

I genuinely feel sorry for her.  It was my life that fell to bits in the process of her affair but I can rebuild those pieces.   Not easily but one day I think 85% of the pieces will be back together.   Never whole again.   

[seeking balance]

You are right... .  day 1 is the answer.

[ExTreme]

Cdb-

It might be a good idea to factor in that you were having unprotected sex with yet another pwBPD during this time. The shards of mirror have turned fractile.

[really]

Extreme... .  yes fully aware of the health issues which is another reason I wanted to know... .  I thought I was in a monogomous relationship with someone who wanted it to be a life long one.   There was a point not too far from the end of the relationship when I thought she might be pregnant.   She was spotting etc.   

Bit confused about your last comment.   Shards of mirror have turned fractile.   Understand what it means literally but not sure about the context?

[Jay08]

It cannot be because she does not want to let me go... .  she got engaged to the guy, tells me she "loves him more than anything or anyone"... .   of course she said the same about me... .  

I can tell you right now what she says and what she does are completely different. Just because she "loves him" does not mean anything. Did it mean something when she said that to you then ripped your heart out? Read thru some stories here and you will see a similarity. They keep tabs on their exes, keep little sentimental things on their exes, and will even lash out if she finds out you are dating again. She "owns" you in her head, and when the time comes where she sees that she is "really" losing you, you will then be contacted for a recycle attempt or ego boost, especially if her relationship is on the rocks.

The reason I want to know is simply to work out when it was during the roller coaster ride that I lost her.   She was talking about having a family with me right until the end and only 2 days before she ended it went out of her way to reassure me her mother was ok about the fact I was divorced (as result of ex wife's adultery 8 years before).

My friend, you said it yourself, you lost her. It really does not matter when. But did you even have anything to lose? Was she really yours? It is very unfortunate for all of us that we dated someone who was emotionally ill, but the fact is this girl will do the same thing to her replacement that she did to you. This i can tell you is fact. And if it ends sooner than later, you will be reengaged. I know exactly why you want to know. You think it will help you let go, but sometimes ignorance is bliss, what if she was having an affair for a large percentage of the relationship, even during your good times together, do you really want to know that?

For my own peace of mind I simply want to know when those statements were just lies... .  she dragged me through a year and 4 months of mess with her previous relationship.  

They were all lies, because whatever she said she did not follow through with. She was a liar. You are a good person and not a liar. Think back about all of the times you had a hunch she was lying, or a red flag popped up you ignored. I was also dragged through drama of her past relationship, and you and I both made a mistake and got involved with somebody who was obviously still dealing with baggage from a past relationship. That is dating 101, you do not do that. And we did.

In basic terms I want to know how few days / weeks it was just her and me...  I suspect none... .  I suspect triangulation (read definition) occured right through our relationship.

Suspect it because its probably true. They can not handle being alone. There were many times i would leave her house to get a text from a mutual buddy that she just left, after she told me she was going to bed! If i did not stay with her and stood my ground about it, she would find someone else. They can not be alone, it is a fear that can not be helped. You were most likely triangulated. Want to hear something messed up? The weekend before me and her officially broke it off, i stayed with her the entire time and took care of her. But i worked days, and whenever i was at work, she had her replacement over until i got off. Then i went and slept with the liar. How degrading is that? That killed my pride when i found out.

She manages to cover up her deception very well so no one else will know.

They all do, they are very smart at manipulation. You can not outsmart a psychopath. At times i thought i did. I knew something was wrong, and i even set up the stage to catch her. But even when i caught her, she still managed to bullsh1t through it. They have been doing this a very long time, they may not be the brightest at math, or science, or any booksmart, or even street smarts. But when it comes to keeping you around and covering up their tracks, they know how to play this game better than you and i.

Sometimes there are things in life that are are important to others and which cost you nothing.    This is important to me.  The truth from her costs her nothing.

Like i said, do you want to know the truth? The truth might set you free, but it also might set you back. Hearing she had an affair even at the times you were most in love with her might set you 2 steps back brother. If she doesnt want to tell you, leave it alone. Do not beg for it or even ask anymore. She enjoys stepping all over your need for this, and you let her. Honestly, the best chance to get your answer, is to go NC. Once she thinks you dont care anymore, she will get upset and probably tell you to piss you off.

[FogLight]

I also wondered when my ex started her secret relationship with the replacement, but I have my suspicions about it and that's enough for me.  It's done from my end, so it doesn't really matter.  You'll find that out yourself and you'll truly begin to feel this way when you turn your attention to yourself, your own personal growth. She doesn't hold the key to your happiness, I promise you that.

[gina louise]

 really

I get it.

You want, or feel a need for a "HAH I KNEW IT!" moment and a victory dance. For finally trusting your gut. For "getting" your ex to DO what YOU want... .  in the end.

I too have reason to believe my stbxBPDh (uBPD (w/NPD traits)) cheated on me numerous times with at least 5  or more women over the 4 years we had together. Much of our time was LD so he could justify his indiscretions by claiming we were never exclusive (in HIS mind) or that I was just "someone he was seeing"... .  (along with a few others?) Yet to my face he'd swear that we were exclusive, I was his one and only-he'd NEVER cheat. Swear he'd never cheated. EVER. Period. Offended mightily at the very idea!

But for my H... .  out of sight meant out of his mind. And off his radar. Especially if I was a few counties  away or even in another state. In His mind-he was "single" at that point. That's all that mattered.

Don't sweat it.  Assume the worst and grieve it. Trust your intuition. You will never have the full disclosure you seek. Nor will I. That Truth would make them the "bad" people they deeply fear that they really are.

Sorry, man.

GL

[Confusedandhurt]

really,

I went through something similar.  When I found out that my ex cheated on me during the r/s, I insisted that we sit down and talk about it.  For months, she pushed it off and said she wasn't ready.  When we finally talked about it, she gave me her speech that it was wrong and would never happen again.  Right to the end of relationship, she wouldn't spend more than 5 minutes answering any of my questions.  It wasn't until I learned about BPD that I discovered why.  She is totally incapable of being vulnerable and having empathy.  I suspect your ex is the same, which would explain why she won't tell you when her current relationship started.  To do that would require empathy for what you're feeling and would require her to be vulnerable enough to tell you the truth.  She likely can't do either, so you will likely never get the answer you are seeking.  I'm sorry that neither of us can get the answers we need, but as others here have said, the disorder always wins... .  

Very sorry for your pain.  This group cares.

[sam-2012]

Hello Really,

    I really identify with your feelings and thoughts. When i broke up with my BPDexgf, I would like to know things like that for my BPDexgf. Since this was an emotionaly abusive relationship that  sucked me dry, it was normal me wanting to know the truth and wanting explanations for weird stuff e.t.c. What i understood over time (Not much time since i am 3 months NC) is that even if my BPDexgf responds to my questions ... i won't believe her. She will either say something to hurt me or manipulate me. She has a serious metal illness that affects her close relationships. Any sort of contact i harmfull for me and some times i found and still find my mind playing tricky games to me (call to see if she is OK, call to ask for the truth, call to confront her) just to speak to my exBPDgf. So i do not call her and when i have the urge to do so ... i call a friend or post here, then my friend or people in this board ll remind me how messy this relationship was and what a big damage caused on me and my life.

I believe that even if you ask, you will never know the truth and you give her again power over you which is something i believe that you don't deserve and won't help in your healing.

Keep posting my friend.