Take This Piano And Shove It... Somewhere

[RoaringSilence]

I have lots of stories I could tell about my BPDw.  This one, though, is one of the more frustrating and a never-ending source of stress in our marriage.

A little background first.  1) My BPDw is a hoarder.  She can't turn down anything from anyone and attaches deep emotional attachment to all manner of junk. 2) She adored her daddy, who passed away 12 years ago.  3) In her mind her daddy would do anything for her.

About 7 years ago, when we were living in another town, an elderly lady had a baby grand piano.  She decided to move to another state to be closer to her children and grandchildren.  She decided to give away this piano.  It's size is such that you must have a large, open space to display it, something that is lacking in most modern houses (better suited to the parlors of 1920s and 1930s houses).  She offered it to several relatives and friends who all turned it down.  My BPDw went to visit her before she moved and she offered it to her.  Guess who accepted it?  We lived in a very small house at the time and had nowhere to put it.  She came home and told me that she accepted it.  I asked the obvious, where would we put it?  Of course, she flew into a BPD rage that lasted several days.

One of our neighbors who had space in her basement offered to store it for my BPDw.  That at least solved the immediate problem and calmed her down.  However, it is still in that same basement, we have moved to another city, and our current house also has no room for such a piece.

She brings this up A LOT.  "When are YOU going to move MY piano here so I can enjoy it?" "You can't ignore me forever." "I am going to have MY stuff." And of course "My daddy would have already moved my piano here for me."

Her daddy was a fine man who could do a lot of good things, but he couldn't alter physics.  He too would have pointed out the obvious, we don't have the space for that piano. 

She offers that it would be "a great birthday present" for her if I moved the piano to our house.  She says we could put in the garage.  Of course, the hoarder has the garage full of junk.  Additionally, that would not be good for the piano at all.

To add even more to this problem, her elderly mother has a pump organ and she wants to inherit this.  Great!

Of course, in classic BPD, this is all my fault.  Sigh.

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[Rockylove]

Wow!  That's a tough one, indeed!  I'm in a similar position.  My husband has 13 instruments of which he plays 2 (guitars) and I have the albatross!  I've an old upright piano that costs more to move than it's worth and I've already moved it 3 times.  My husband has a smaller piano (in much better condition)  Guess what?  Neither of us actually PLAY them!  I'm ready to give mine away just to make some space in our house.  He wants to build another building (with heat, power, a/c~~the whole 9 yards) so he can set up all the instruments and have a big electric jam, but the reality is that he wouldn't do it if he had the building anyway. 

My point is that there will always be something that he thinks will make him happier than he is, but he'll never fill the empty hole.  It's the "if only" syndrome.  The external things that are unrealistic will make me happy.   I've validated his feelings saying how nice it would be to have that luxury.  We're not in a position to build it so I don't even go there with the conversation. 

I don't have any really great words of wisdom for you... . just know that you're not alone.   

[arabella]

As much as she's a hoarder, will she let go of things if by doing so she is 'gifting' them to someone else who really needs/wants them? My only idea re your situation would be, if such is the case, to find a school/community/church group/student/whatever who really wants a good piano. Then maybe convince her how wonderful a person she would be to donate said item for such a good cause because, you know, it's just such a shame and a waste that more people can't enjoy the piano... . ahem.

If that won't work then... . umm... . You are stuck with the piano albatross. After 7 years I'm imagining that you've tried every form of logic there is. How frustrating!

Rockylove makes a good point though. If you didn't have the piano to harp on about then it would just be something else. Perhaps you could think of the piano as a blessing in disguise? It's currently the devil you know!

[Grey Kitty]

  RoaringSilence,

I know you can't shove the piano where the sun doesn't shine, no matter how much you want to! And you can't make her stop obsessing about it either.

I can give you a some practical suggestions though:

First, you can change your role in these conversations. If they escalate to the point of verbal abuse, start by addressing that. It is destructive to both you and your wife.

The easy way to do that is by setting a boundary in this form: If you verbally abuse me, I will leave the conversation. Notice the pronouns, and that the choices go with them. She can decide whether she wants to say verbally abusive things or not, and you can't influence her choice. You can choose not to stay there and listen to it, and she cannot force you to listen.

Many others have worked through this sort of boundary here before; this is the very short version. You can read a detailed workshop on boundaries here:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

It also sounds like she just goes round and round with this one. I'd recommend not taking the bait when she tries to bait you with it. Using logic to explain that there is no place for the piano hasn't worked after trying it how many hundred times now? Stop trying to do it that way.

Hmmm... . what problem do YOU actually want to solve? Because there are several "problems"

• She keeps asking you to move her piano into the house



• She has a ex-neighbor storing a piano on her behalf



• She hasn't cleared enough stuff out of the garage/house to make room for a piano (don't know if there would be room were she to get rid of stuff anyway)



• Her hording makes your house a disaster zone

Never mind which ones bother her the most, lets work on what we can do about the ones that bother YOU the most!

 GK

P.S. keep watching craigslist for a TARDIS you can buy 

[RoaringSilence]

Rockylove is correct, this is part of an "if only" syndrome.  There are several concurrent if only items going on, the piano being one of them.  That is one of the most frustrating parts of this entire relationship, there is always something missing,from her point of view.

I have tried the give it away to charity angle.  I have actually had a small amount of traction with it, but she never follows through and it eventually comes back to square one, that I'm the mean old dictator who won't let her have her piano.

Boundaries have been my go-to for most of our marriage.  Good points by Grey Kitty.  I've become pretty good at cutting off the rage verbal abuses, usually by excusing myself or calling out her name calling.  The daily nagging is another story.  The daily pity parties are also a problem.  I ignore it as much as I can for the sake of keeping the peace. 

So glad I've found this forum.  Good to know I'm not alone; however, I wouldn't wish what I go through on anyone.

[Grey Kitty]

Hmm... . what if she threw a daily pity party and nobody came  Seriously, you can just change the subject or excuse yourself from that conversation.

As for the nagging, as long as she thinks you could move her piano into a space it won't fit for her, she may well keep on nagging you.

Convincing her that there is no way to put that piano into this house, or that it would be damaged in a non-climate-controlled garage might be possible. I would try suggest S.E.T. on that. We've got a workshop on it:

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

I'll give it a shot for you:

Support:

I want you to be happy.

Empathy:

I understand how important to you it is to have the grand piano where you can enjoy it.

Truth:

This house does not have a room big enough to fit it in.

I'm not an expert at this and don't know your wife... . maybe you can do better. I'm sure you will have a chance to try it soon enough from the way you describe things.

[arabella]

Rockylove is correct, this is part of an "if only" syndrome.  There are several concurrent if only items going on, the piano being one of them.  That is one of the most frustrating parts of this entire relationship, there is always something missing,from her point of view.

I have tried the give it away to charity angle.  I have actually had a small amount of traction with it, but she never follows through and it eventually comes back to square one, that I'm the mean old dictator who won't let her have her piano.

Seems like chronic "if only" syndrome is fairly common. My H has it too! (Hey, the acronym for that is iOS - like Apple. If only I could afford the latest gadget upgrade... . )

If that's how the charity angle is going for you then I've got two thoughts: 1) you could organize a firm recipient who would be expecting it - no real way to back out, but you're doing all the work; and 2) if you go that route I'm betting you'll be hearing about how you gave away HER piano for the rest of your life.

[Chosen]

Sorry if this is completely related (because I'm the piano-player in my household  ), but my uBPDh is a hoarder too,.

My H doesn't throw things away.  Last year he threw a fan on the floor when he was dysregulated.  The fan broke.  He said he will take it to be fixed and refused to let me throw it away.  He never even attempt to get it fixed.  Seeing the fan reminds me of him dysregulated; I wonder if that reminds him as well.  But he was probably disassociated and don't remember things as they are... .

"Fortunately", I am not big on being neat and tidy, so I can just about accept it being there.  Of course, there are lots more of these instances, like piles and piles of unopened mail which he won't need (stuff from credit card companies, junk mail)... . now I just stuff them all into a bag and refuse to do anything with them.

I have once heard a theory which says that you can understand a person's emotional situation from the stuff they have.  The fact that our pwBPDs refuse to throw things away probably shows how they just stuff up their emotions, not wanting to organise their feelings, and their emotions are all over the place and tangled up.  Probably it's their character- if it's too hard to do (throw junk away, deal with emotions), I will just not deal with it.

[RoaringSilence]

Chosen, I believe it is related.  I've always wondered if her hoarding was related to BPD or if it was a totally separate issue.  From the replies, and the logic behind the replies, it appears to be a manifestation of BPD.  The piano in this case is just another item to collect.  The worst thing she collects is "hand-me-down" clothing for the kids.  People dumps bags and bags on her because she'll take them.  Much of the clothing the children will never wear (for instance, I can't imagine either of our children ever being classified as "husky", but yet we have husky clothing that she won't give away or won't turn down when offered to her).

[Chosen]

Husky clothing... . broken fan... . piano... . useless junk mail... . So what do you do about the clothes?  Do you hide them somewhere, do you throw them away?

Nowadays, when H refuses to throw away certain pieces of rubbish (like useless junk mail he's never read, or paper boxes he claims can be used for other purposes), and I know he won't notice it, I usually throw them away after some time... . and of course he never knows.  But for things like the fan I can't throw away because I can't replace a broken fan... .

[Rockylove]

I'm sitting here chuckling at this thread.  Our "living room" has 1 chair, 2 pianos, an antique desk (with a broken leg) that's engulfed in a sea of what the heck ever and one wall of built in book cases separated in half by a chimney & wood stove which is where our computers are.  If a total stranger came into our home, they would know in about 30 seconds that there are 2 distinct personalities in this house.  

I'll admit that I'm not a total neatnick, but seriously... . he's a hot mess!  We often joke about no flat surface being sacred, but I've put my foot down on which flat surfaces he may not defile!  This is my home too and clutter makes me nervous.  The funny thing is that he doesn't function well with clutter either!  He's always losing something which he will then count on me to find (I always seem to know where things are in all his mess) which leaves me scratching my head.     He NEVER puts anything away after using it (hedge clippers left out in the yard for 3 days in the rain) and then can't seem to find it when he needs it and runs around cussing and mumbling about it.  He said that some things need to be where he can see them or he'll forget about them (let's leave the once a month dog pills on the kitchen counter so I won't forget them) so consequently everything ends up piled over the top of each other and nothing can be found.  Endless piles of clothing on the floor, dresser, night stand, etc. not because he needs to see them, but because his drawers are overflowing with clothing that he hasn't worn in 20 years!  I have 1 dresser, 2 ft of hanging closet space (in a walk in closet) and 1 under the bed storage box for out of season clothes.  I've gotten him to talk about giving clothes to charity and he'll admit he's never going to wear them again, but he hasn't gotten around to doing it yet... . too much else to think about (like the 30 thousand football articles he has to read or he might miss something important!)

I'm ranting, but all of this is part of who he is and radical acceptance on my part is the best thing to keep me from wringing his neck over it!    :)oes it bother me... . YUP!  Can I do anything about it... . NOPE!  I'm not going to clean up his clutter because it's an endless task and I'd just wear myself out doing it (mentally and physically).  I've just had to make my boundaries clear on it and he's really been very respectful of them.

[RoaringSilence]

Oh, I totally understand the flat surface problem.  Every flat surface in the house collects anything and everything, even if it doesn't relate to the surface at all.  I am also counted on to find stuff lost in her own clutter, primarily her keys and her cell phone.

Early in our marriage I tried to throw away some old gift bags.  This triggered a holy rage.  If and when I do clean up around the house, she will look in the trash cans to be sure I didn't throw away anything "valuable".  She even one time emptied the outside trash can and searched all of the bags.  That doesn't mean I haven't successfully thrown away stuff and she not miss it.  I just have to put it in the trunk of the car and throw it away at work.

[Chosen]

The funny thing is that he doesn't function well with clutter either!  He's always losing something which he will then count on me to find (I always seem to know where things are in all his mess) which leaves me scratching my head.     He NEVER puts anything away after using it (hedge clippers left out in the yard for 3 days in the rain) and then can't seem to find it when he needs it and runs around cussing and mumbling about it.  He said that some things need to be where he can see them or he'll forget about them (let's leave the once a month dog pills on the kitchen counter so I won't forget them) so consequently everything ends up piled over the top of each other and nothing can be found.  Endless piles of clothing on the floor, dresser, night stand, etc. not because he needs to see them, but because his drawers are overflowing with clothing that he hasn't worn in 20 years!

Rockylove, I'm pretty sure I don't live with you, but it sounds like your H is my H's long lost brother!  And I also have the pleasant job of trying to find anything and everything, and most of the times I actually can find them.  My H never puts anything where they should be, and again never seem to remember where he left them... .