Depressed/Tired/Sick of it All

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Feeling depressed.

My mom had a pretty severe stroke last week. I'm the only adult child that lives in the area so I am the one responsible for assistance and supervision and visiting. When she has a health issue, I'm in the front line dealing with ambulance, doctors, hospital staff, and coordinating and communicating everything to my 3 siblings that live far away. I have a demanding job, and by Thursday I had to let the eldest sister handle some logistics by phone because I simply couldn't work and juggle it all at the same time. The logistics are still changing... .many many texts and phone calls each day. I feel depressed and foggy, but have work responsibilities that can't be put off.

The ex meanwhile has initiated a campaign around us getting married, it started about 6 or 7 weeks ago. Some here know the background already, he is HF, and he tries, been in T for more than 8 years now,  but even with all the improvement I don't trust the push-pull stuff.  He continues to work with a T and shows some continued impressive improvements in his coping skills.

I just don't feel excited about his breakthroughs anymore.  Well, I feel happy for him and I think each step helps him, but as it pertains to the push pull, I don't take it too seriously. Meaning I don't go into joy/rapture mode when he announces he wants to get married and is ready for a commitment, again.  It's more like, Oh... .that again.   But, it's sad to have a person around who in theory you would want a life with, promoting your commitment and marriage, but knowing not to take it seriously cause he will feel much different in a couple of months.  Though he assures me, once again... .it's different this time.    He is also perfectly fine if I just want to be on my own and date or do whatever for a year, he assures me he's not going to jump on dating sites and he's not going anywhere.  (don't really one way or the other) That actually sounds like a pretty healthy offer, if you think about it.   I'm not sure why I don't jump on that immediately... .?  Instead, I just feel sad and I've not taken him up on that offer, yet.  And I keep seeing him most weekends. 

If I'm so convinced he will never be stable enough to marry or live together, then what am I doing choosing this?  Am I just avoiding moving on with my own life?  Why?  I actually feel really good when I'm not mired in this stuff with him, I feel relieved to be on my own and free of it all. When he comes back, even if it were with 100 percent health... .I'm just r/s fatigued with him and I think I'd be like... .Oh, you again, big sigh... .

Is he getting healthier and I'm freaking out cause I don't know what to do with him if he does get more stable?  How would I know?  It always (so far) changes in a few months. No reason to assume it won't this time. Of COURSE!

And, even if it were some real healing and more stability... .thinking about it... .it still doesn't feel so good.  I don't even... .care? If he got 100% healthy and was stable right now and there was a way to verify that, and it was verified... .I think I would just feel like, Oh... .hmmm.  Do I even WANT to be with you anymore?  Much less married?  Isn't that weird?   I'm not sure how to express it.

There's no figuring this stuff out when I feel this way.  He actually has provide some help and support with my mom having had the stroke, but at the same time, his presence creates a lot of work in my brain that I find draining.  So even without his assistance, I may be more able to cope better on my own, even when things get tuff with crises etc. than with his presence. His presence is... .  I don't know... .draining... .even though he's being supportive and nice.     

Just have to sit with it.  When things calm down I'll feel better and more grounded and will see things more clearly.

I know this pattern he has. He will want to get married, until he doesn't feel that way anymore. Then, he won't want to do that anymore. If I DO marry him, then I have to go through that shift WHILE married to a man that doesn't feel like he wants to be married to me until his feelings shift and he feels okay with it again.   I'm not sure THAT ever will change.  Yuck. I'm so so so so tired of BPD.   I have not seen any studies showing that THIS dramatic shift in feeling toward attachment figures ever goes into remission.  Cutting and other self-harming behaviors, yea, they remit with DBT etc.  I get it. They get better. But THIS feeling based stuff in intimate relationships, I've not seen a study indicating this goes away or goes into remission. I think it's just handled better, or not.  But it's always there. As a partner, you just have to learn to take care of yourself and live through it if you choose to stay.

[MaybeSo]

Feeling depressed.

My mom had a pretty severe stroke last week. I'm the only adult child that lives in the area so I am the one responsible for assistance and supervision and visiting. When she has a health issue, I'm in the front line dealing with ambulance, doctors, hospital staff, and coordinating and communicating everything to my 3 siblings that live far away. I have a demanding job, and by Thursday I had to let the eldest sister handle some logistics by phone because I simply couldn't work and juggle it all at the same time. The logistics are still changing... .many many texts and phone calls each day. I feel depressed and foggy, but have work responsibilities that can't be put off.

The ex meanwhile has initiated a campaign around us getting married, it started about 6 or 7 weeks ago. Some here know the background already, he is HF, and he tries, been in T for more than 8 years now,  but even with all the improvement I don't trust the push-pull stuff.  He continues to work with a T and shows some continued impressive improvements in his coping skills.

I just don't feel excited about his breakthroughs anymore.  Well, I feel happy for him and I think each step helps him, but as it pertains to the push pull, I don't take it too seriously. Meaning I don't go into joy/rapture mode when he announces he wants to get married and is ready for a commitment, again.  It's more like, Oh... .that again.   But, it's sad to have a person around who in theory you would want a life with, promoting your commitment and marriage, but knowing not to take it seriously cause he will feel much different in a couple of months.  Though he assures me, once again... .it's different this time.    He is also perfectly fine if I just want to be on my own and date or do whatever for a year, he assures me he's not going to jump on dating sites and he's not going anywhere.  (don't really one way or the other) That actually sounds like a pretty healthy offer, if you think about it.   I'm not sure why I don't jump on that immediately... .?  Instead, I just feel sad and I've not taken him up on that offer, yet.  And I keep seeing him most weekends. 

If I'm so convinced he will never be stable enough to marry or live together, then what am I doing choosing this?  Am I just avoiding moving on with my own life?  Why?  I actually feel really good when I'm not mired in this stuff with him, I feel relieved to be on my own and free of it all. When he comes back, even if it were with 100 percent health... .I'm just r/s fatigued with him and I think I'd be like... .Oh, you again, big sigh... .

Is he getting healthier and I'm freaking out cause I don't know what to do with him if he does get more stable?  How would I know?  It always (so far) changes in a few months. No reason to assume it won't this time. Of COURSE!

And, even if it were some real healing and more stability... .thinking about it... .it still doesn't feel so good.  I don't even... .care? If he got 100% healthy and was stable right now and there was a way to verify that, and it was verified... .I think I would just feel like, Oh... .hmmm.  Do I even WANT to be with you anymore?  Much less married?  Isn't that weird?   I'm not sure how to express it.

There's no figuring this stuff out when I feel this way.  He actually has provide some help and support with my mom having had the stroke, but at the same time, his presence creates a lot of work in my brain that I find draining.  So even without his assistance, I may be more able to cope better on my own, even when things get tuff with crises etc. than with his presence. His presence is... .  I don't know... .draining... .even though he's being supportive and nice.     

Just have to sit with it.  When things calm down I'll feel better and more grounded and will see things more clearly.

I know this pattern he has. He will want to get married, until he doesn't feel that way anymore. Then, he won't want to do that anymore. If I DO marry him, then I have to go through that shift WHILE married to a man that doesn't feel like he wants to be married to me until his feelings shift and he feels okay with it again.   I'm not sure THAT ever will change.  Yuck. I'm so so so so tired of BPD.   I have not seen any studies showing that THIS dramatic shift in feeling toward attachment figures ever goes into remission.  Cutting and other self-harming behaviors, yea, they remit with DBT etc.  I get it. They get better. But THIS feeling based stuff in intimate relationships, I've not seen a study indicating this goes away or goes into remission. I think it's just handled better, or not.  But it's always there. As a partner, you just have to learn to take care of yourself and live through it if you choose to stay.

[Forward2free]

Sorry to hear about your mum's stroke. It's emotionally draining and it feels never ending when you're in the midst of making arrangements. You're doing well to be able to share out some jobs to your sibling. Is there more that the other's can take on to help you with?



With regards to your relationship, it sounds like you are polling for the answer, but from my point of view as I read it, I think you already have the answer.

I have been listening to Brene Brown's The Power of Vulnerability cd's and she said that when you are polling for answers, you are ignoring your gut feeling. What does your gut tell you? Do you think your gut has the right answer?

[Rose Tiger]

Hi Maybeso, you and I were dealing with detaching a while back.  Although my ex made a couple attempts, I didn't respond.  I think it finally sunk in that he just isn't capable of caring about another person in a healthy way.  I still pine for the initial person he pretended to be, so attentive, so caring, so kind.  Such a con.  What's that old saying?  Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.  I have no desire what so ever to get back on that merry go round.  The constant 100% focus on his stuff, exhausting.  These relationships do such a number on us because we were so trusting, so open and then whammo.  It is very difficult to think about being that open with someone else.   

Aren't I all joy and sunshine?  Lol.  Someone else said it recently, getting in touch with feeling feelings is hard on the sad parts but to be able to feel real joy versus some washed out pale version, that's the pay off.  And it does come occasionally, real happiness, real feelings.  I suppose that's the gift of being with these disordered individuals give to us.  Detaching is in phases.  Physically, then emotionally.  It takes so long!  But look how far we've come!

[connect]

Hey Maybeso,

So sorry about the stroke - it's tough - been there myself with my mother many times and I can totally relate to what you are going through. If you want to PM me on any of that stuff then feel free - dealt with it for 6 years. You may find that she is more emotional now after the stroke, my mother went from being rather strong/silent/tough to someone that cried at the drop of hat, although the tears could be forgotten just as fast afterwards. My advise is to keep on with the physiotherapy. The hospitals here focused on the recovery rather then retraining the undamaged parts of the brain to take over the role of the damaged parts. Get all the physical therapy you can and pay for as much extra as you can on top. I made the mistake of trusting that once a week was fine but she needed more then that. The earlier and the more you can do, the better are her chances of regaining mobility once she is stable.

As for your man - well I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. It IS exhausting, the uncertainty, the push pull, the other shoe hovering. I think that you should do what makes you feel good RIGHT NOW. With all this stress from your mother you are bound to feel vulnerable. If you need to lean on him then lean on him, if you need a cuddle then get one from him, if you want someone to talk to then talk to him. I dont think you need to make any promises or decisions to him right this second with all of this going on with your mum. Maybe you can relieve yourself of thinking about that for a while. Maybe say to yourself - yes you will think about the proposal but not for another week or two, and in the meantime just see your man when you want and get what you want from him. Comfort - distraction - whatever. With whats happening with your mum... .it's your turn to take what you want from him I feel.

[DragoN]

Maybeso,

With the upset emotionally dealing with your mom and your focus split between her and your fiance it's pretty understandable you are depressed and sick of it all.

Oh... .hmmm.  Do I even WANT to be with you anymore?  Much less married?  Isn't that weird?   I'm not sure how to express it.

That's your answer, but you are not listening to your gut are you?   

You know, but are not willing or ready to feel it.

[123Phoebe]

Hi MaybeSo,

I'm so sorry to hear about your mom and hope that you find your equilibrium soon

[Phoenix.Rising]

Hi MaybeSo,

I'm sorry you are feeling depressed.  That is no fun.  I hope the situation with your mom is improving. 

So what are you doing to take care of you?  Sometimes I may need to go to bed earlier, or listen to some soothing music, or read a funny book.  What makes you feel better that is positive?  I also like to walk outside. 

Take care.

[Suzn]

Hey Maybeso, sorry to hear this about your mother.    My goodness you have a lot going on, maybe it's time to cut yourself some slack and step back from any major decisions and take care of you. Your mother and your job seem to be your priorities and just one of those priorities at the present time would be stressful for anyone!

It sounds as though you are struggling with the fact that you really need a solid sense of support right now for yourself and your bf hasn't consistently been this for you. It also sounds like it could be a little disappointing if, or when, he changes his mind about wanting to be married again even if you say no.

Do you want to give this a year? If not, do you think you two can remain friends? If so, you could put this on the back burner and focus more on your mother and your job. A healthy partner would understand either way even though it may be difficult.   

[P.F.Change]

Sorry to hear you're feeling down. You have got a lot going on right now, it is understandable that you would feel stressed. Good job reaching out for support and being honest about what you are feeling. Are you in touch with a therapist or other professional about the depression you are experiencing?

... .Thursday I had to let the eldest sister handle some logistics by phone because I simply couldn't work and juggle it all at the same time.

Sounds like a smart idea. Nobody can be all things at all times... .delegating responsibilities can be a good way to look after yourself.

I just don't feel excited about his breakthroughs anymore... .Meaning I don't go into joy/rapture mode when he announces he wants to get married and is ready for a commitment, again.  

Honestly that sounds like a step toward healthier detachment. Someone enmeshed might wish the other person would change so that he can finally meet their needs. Now you have taken a step back... .maybe you can see his breakthroughs are HIS breakthroughs... .they don't have to have anything at all to do with you or who you are or whether you can be happy. He will have breakthroughs or he won't, they will stick or they won't. Your own choices do not have to be dependent on them either way.

But, it's sad to have a person around who in theory you would want a life with, promoting your commitment and marriage, but knowing not to take it seriously cause he will feel much different in a couple of months. Though he assures me, once again... .it's different this time.

I hear a little bit of wishing that Bad BF will see the light and become All Good forever. Perhaps I am mistaken. At any rate, in reality, there is just one man. He has positive qualities and also a disorder. Who we want to be is not necessarily who we really are, the same is true for who we wish others to be. Hard to have a relationship with a theory. You have awareness that for him feelings=facts. He probably really does believe things are different this time. But you have seen the pattern. You know that feelings change, and you know how you feel when they do. It is really up to you whether you want to continue in the relationship knowing this.

He is also perfectly fine if I just want to be on my own and date or do whatever for a year, he assures me he's not going to jump on dating sites and he's not going anywhere.  (don't really one way or the other) That actually sounds like a pretty healthy offer, if you think about it.   I'm not sure why I don't jump on that immediately... .?  Instead, I just feel sad and I've not taken him up on that offer, yet.  And I keep seeing him most weekends.  

I'm confused... .what is the offer? How has this gotten turned around to where he is the one offering you the chance to keep him? If you want to "be on your own and date or do whatever," why do you need the permission of your "ex" BF? And if you do choose to see other people, he can decide for himself whether he does the same or keeps holding on hope of getting back together with you. He doesn't really need your permission, either. I don't think it sounds like a "healthy offer" at all, really. It sounds like the desperation of a person who wants someone else to be responsible for his happiness. Again, maybe I'm mistaken. But that's what I hear.

If I'm so convinced he will never be stable enough to marry or live together, then what am I doing choosing this?  Am I just avoiding moving on with my own life?  Why?  

That's a really great question that only you can answer. If I were to venture a guess, I would say fear. What do you think? Is there something you are afraid would happen if you made a different choice?

I actually feel really good when I'm not mired in this stuff with him, I feel relieved to be on my own and free of it all. When he comes back, even if it were with 100 percent health... .I'm just r/s fatigued with him and I think I'd be like... .Oh, you again, big sigh... .

His presence is... . I don't know... .draining... .even though he's being supportive and nice.    

So... .on your own, you feel good, relieved, free. When you are with him, you feel fatigued and drained. Right now, today, while you are stressed out about your mother and your work responsibilities, which would better help you to take care of yourself? Take away his feelings and his needs and his intentions from the equation. It is okay to ask for what you need. If you need space, a truly supportive friend will understand and give it to you gladly.

And, even if it were some real healing and more stability... .thinking about it... .it still doesn't feel so good.

Even thinking about it doesn't feel good. Again, is there any reason you have to think about it right now? Is this an urgent, pressing matter that demands your immediate attention? Or can you say, "You know what, I really don't have the energy to even think about this right now. I am going to focus on other things, and if this issue comes up again down the line I will consider thinking about it then. But right now I need to take care of me."

I like what was said above about listening to your gut. You do already know the answers, MaybeSo. There is a lot going on for you right now... .it is ok to take a break and prioritize. And do keep reaching out.

Wishing you peace,

PF

[patientandclear]

Hey there MaybeSo  

Your entire post makes complete sense to me.

It IS sad to have a person who theoretically -- absent a disorder that you know is at work & not resolved (you know that from ALL of his past patterns and you know it from the research, which I take the same lessons from as you do -- no indication that intimacy issues get resolved) -- would be a marvelous life partner, offering to be that, and having your darn wise mind sticking itself in there saying "but you know ... .once he has this, he won't feel great all the time, and he'll start to wonder if this r/s is why, or if something else would make him feel better."

No reason in the world to think your wise mind isn't correct.  :)arn it!  And you're too smart and well-informed to let some other impulse override your wise mind.  So no wonder you're sad.  The excitement such an overture would have elicited from you in the past was connected with your wise mind not having achieved such complete insight and dominance in your internal conversation.

The problem is that he feels now that the r/s will make him feel better.  (Interestingly, not just the r/s, but, marriage.  Like he wants to lock it in.  That impulse alone makes this sound so much like another loop around the BPD track, doesn't it?)  And as long as you haven't said yes, he can maintain that idea.  But once you say yes ... .and then he feels bad again ... .suddenly the marriage is not the answer anymore.  And then there's the question -- what is?  As you know.

It was not long ago that he was negatively comparing your wonderfulness (which we all see!  You are phenomenal, it's so clear ... .) to some imaginary effervescent woman who was kind of like that other woman he'd been seeing but different because she, the perfect woman, would not only be bubbly like that short term ex gf but also amazing like you ... .The One is all things.  That was so recent.  No wonder you cannot take this at face value.

My ex just showed me in a deeper way how impossible all this is.  He briefly revealed to me that he realized he has an attachment disorder.  (He is not in therapy, he figured this out watching a movie about someone with an attachment disorder.)  And it really shook him up.  A lot.  He told me a bit about that, then shut down hard.  Fast forward just a couple weeks.  We've been discussing our own r/s dynamic a bit in the past two weeks.  He informed me that he doesn't think he has anything to fix, apropos of that whole attachment disorder thing, and he's ready to move forward!  Into the next exciting chapters of his life!  Ever onward!  And he has a new life philosophy, which is that it is all OK.  It turns out we (people, not just him and me) shouldn't try to hold on to each other -- that's a false hope, and not even good and healthy.  We should just stay together as long as that's convenient, and then when life's pulls and attractions separate us, we need to let go without clinging.  He has this all worked up to the level of a quasi-Buddhist-sounding values system and he is really happy with it.

Of course this is completely antithetical to what he said he felt for me and hoped for himself when he was courting me, and it might feel like enlightened growth since those days of enmeshment and merger, except that two weeks ago at a deeper level, he was in touch with the fact that he pushes away people who love him & whom he loves due to panic and fear.

But he cannot stay with that insight, and he starts rationalizing what he does as a defense mechanism, as a vaunted positive value.

It makes me realize it's futile.  I have to love him at some distance that allows for him to abandon me periodically.  And just like you, that makes me feel awfully sad.  But there doesn't seem to be another choice.  And yes, it means not reading into the massive pull efforts that they make, what we would like those to mean.

You know more about all this than anyone on here ... .I find it so helpful that you post as you are working it all through, and I learn so much from hearing how you feel & how it plays out with him.  Thank you.