Oh wow...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Something pretty profound just hit me and I had to share with my Family.

I knew that back in the summer in July or so my BPDex had gotten a tattoo of a key on her wrist to hide scars from where she had cut.  Her "best friend" at the time, a girl she had met 5 months into dating me or so, who is also a lesbian (my BPDex was cheating on me with this girl as well) got a matching tattoo of sorts, another key but a different design, because "They were going to be friends forever". 

Well as mentioned in another thread I just posted, I did some digging today, and I saw a picture of the tattoo.  It was in fact a key, but it had the words, "Que Sera Sera" as well.  I recognized it as Spanish, but did not know the translation, that is until I just looked.  Urban Dictionary came up as one of the top results... .

"This is Spanish for 'what will be, will be.' This is something you say when you are stuck in a hopelessly unchangeable situation, but have come to accept, or even embrace the unchangability of it all. This is similar to the phrase 'it is what it is.'"

What is "it is what it is"'s definition on Urban Dictionary?

"A phrase that seems to simply state the obvious but actually implies helplessness."

I am floored.  My BPDex said, "It is what it is" ALL OF THE TIME.  I have posted here before about how she at times acted like SOMEONE ELSE was doing the things she was doing, like she was just along for the ride and dealing with consequences that someone else besides her had brought on herself.  I can still hear her say "It is what it is" as she shakes her head slowly and speaks in a defeated tone.

I feel like crying for the first time in MONTHS.  How can someone accept that their life will be full of chaos and hurt and lies and cheating forever? I see in my BPDex a broken, shattered soul.  And it is hard.

[Octoberfest]

Something pretty profound just hit me and I had to share with my Family.

I knew that back in the summer in July or so my BPDex had gotten a tattoo of a key on her wrist to hide scars from where she had cut.  Her "best friend" at the time, a girl she had met 5 months into dating me or so, who is also a lesbian (my BPDex was cheating on me with this girl as well) got a matching tattoo of sorts, another key but a different design, because "They were going to be friends forever". 

Well as mentioned in another thread I just posted, I did some digging today, and I saw a picture of the tattoo.  It was in fact a key, but it had the words, "Que Sera Sera" as well.  I recognized it as Spanish, but did not know the translation, that is until I just looked.  Urban Dictionary came up as one of the top results... .

"This is Spanish for 'what will be, will be.' This is something you say when you are stuck in a hopelessly unchangeable situation, but have come to accept, or even embrace the unchangability of it all. This is similar to the phrase 'it is what it is.'"

What is "it is what it is"'s definition on Urban Dictionary?

"A phrase that seems to simply state the obvious but actually implies helplessness."

I am floored.  My BPDex said, "It is what it is" ALL OF THE TIME.  I have posted here before about how she at times acted like SOMEONE ELSE was doing the things she was doing, like she was just along for the ride and dealing with consequences that someone else besides her had brought on herself.  I can still hear her say "It is what it is" as she shakes her head slowly and speaks in a defeated tone.

I feel like crying for the first time in MONTHS.  How can someone accept that their life will be full of chaos and hurt and lies and cheating forever? I see in my BPDex a broken, shattered soul.  And it is hard.

[snappafcw]

This hits close to home. I say it is what it is all the time when I suffer with things like depression etc... .But anyway my ex also has a tattoo on her side that says "Live life without regret" That kind of angers me now because I assume she doesn't care if she hurts people she will just do what shes got to do.

Hang in there October its normal to take a backward step I started having nightmares again myself you just need to ride it out. Keep making the positive progress you have been

[Learning_curve74]

I feel like crying for the first time in MONTHS.  How can someone accept that their life will be full of chaos and hurt and lies and cheating forever? I see in my BPDex a broken, shattered soul.  And it is hard.

If somebody has a lack of self-worth, wouldn't that make it very easy for them to give up any attempt to change their lot in life regardless how difficult? Wouldn't this reasoning also extend to cover people who stay in abusive or toxic relationships?

As opposed to broken and shattered, I prefer to say they are wounded and damaged. As are many of us, and many of us may have had hidden wounds we brought into the relationship.

I know that I had issues with being invalidated my whole life by my father and in need of parental love. So the BPD love was a great stand in for a parent's unconditional love, and I tried to give myself self-validation by attempting to rescue my exBPDgf. And she continues the same cycles because she is like your ex believing this is the most she deserves and it is what it is.

[Learning_curve74]

I actually think there is value in seeing "it is what it is" as long as it isn't followed with an apathetic can't-do attitude. It is fine to acknowledge the situation, which isn't the same as saying nothing can be done.

[Octoberfest]

I feel like crying for the first time in MONTHS.  How can someone accept that their life will be full of chaos and hurt and lies and cheating forever? I see in my BPDex a broken, shattered soul.  And it is hard.

If somebody has a lack of self-worth, wouldn't that make it very easy for them to give up any attempt to change their lot in life regardless how difficult? Wouldn't this reasoning also extend to cover people who stay in abusive or toxic relationships?

As opposed to broken and shattered, I prefer to say they are wounded and damaged. As are many of us, and many of us may have had hidden wounds we brought into the relationship.

I know that I had issues with being invalidated my whole life by my father and in need of parental love. So the BPD love was a great stand in for a parent's unconditional love, and I tried to give myself self-validation by attempting to rescue my exBPDgf. And she continues the same cycles because she is like your ex believing this is the most she deserves and it is what it is.

I identify with this. I think I saw rescuing my BPDex as giving me value as well... .which is one of the reasons it was so hard to walk away. I thought if I just tried harder I would succeed. To the second sentence, it is just so hard for me to understand them not seeing that their ___ty reality is a direct consequence of THEIR actions.  It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

[babyspook]

Octoberfest,

I know I'm a newbie here but as for moving on after many failed relationships in my life, I feel like a Dr. Phil.     Anyway, I'm not sure if I interpreted your first post correctly but it sounded like you did "some digging"?  If I read it right, you're doing some kinda archeological work on the past maybe?  If so, why?  What good does that do you?  I personally had to stop deciphering past events and searching for clues as to what went wrong and why.  It's a futile effort.  All that does is bring me back there again and we all know there's no future in the past.   Once again, I hope I understood your post correctly but if I didn't, then I sincerely apologize.

[Learning_curve74]

I identify with this. I think I saw rescuing my BPDex as giving me value as well... .which is one of the reasons it was so hard to walk away. I thought if I just tried harder I would succeed. To the second sentence, it is just so hard for me to understand them not seeing that their ___ty reality is a direct consequence of THEIR actions.  It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah, I know you've probably read the description of the "lonely child meets abandoned child" schema interaction that user 2010 posted which has become a classic here... .that really explained a lot between me and my exBPDgf. I am a very self made person; most of the things I have in life I had to work very hard for even my own happiness and having great friends. But that also means that I judge myself harshly and a lot of my perception of self-worth is wrapped up in what I do and accomplish. So when I fail, then I judge myself unworthy. I am trying to learn to avoid that trap.

You hit the nail on the head by saying it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. A pwBPD doesn't often see the cause and effect connection between their dysfunctional behaviors and the typical outcome of abandonment. It's a very childlike strategy of denial and splitting. And to be fair, even though many of us are carrying and compassionate, we too can engage in denial and splitting. That is why on the boards here it's often emphasized that we understand our part in the "dance".

[Turkish]

I actually think there is value in seeing "it is what it is" as long as it isn't followed with an apathetic can't-do attitude. It is fine to acknowledge the situation, which isn't the same as saying nothing can be done.

My T asks me what I feel about certain things, how I am doing with all of this, and I reply that, "it just is, and I'll deal with it... .like I have everything in my life."

I get that some people saying that, especially a BPD, implies an unspoken helplessness, but I agree with you, LC, that some of us don't fight, we accept, fix (if possible), and move on to better things.

FYI to Octoberfest, a Spanish phrase someone told me (my X is Hispanic): "le gusta la vida mal." Which is like saying, "She/he likes the bad life."

It might be my parting shot when she leaves the house, depending upon how that goes... .now she's walking on eggshells around me right now, and I must say that it feels good.

[Turkish]

Yeah, I know you've probably read the description of the "lonely child meets abandoned child" schema interaction that user 2010 posted which has become a classic here... .that really explained a lot between me and my exBPDgf. I am a very self made person; most of the things I have in life I had to work very hard for even my own happiness and having great friends. But that also means that I judge myself harshly and a lot of my perception of self-worth is wrapped up in what I do and accomplish. So when I fail, then I judge myself unworthy. I am trying to learn to avoid that trap.

I fell a bit into the trap of being too much The Provider in my r/s with my X... .she even accused me of this. But I felt, and I told her, that I couldn't count on her to do x, y, z, so of course I had to do it. It wasn't just me. I almost begged her for the better part of a year to research the new car we'd buy, and she made a half-hearted effort at best. I finally did it all myself, decided on it, included her fully in the test drives, final decision (though I put down almost all of the money), let her watch me negotiate the awesome deal we got. Two weeks after that, she told me it was over, then the affair, getting rid of it two weeks later. *sigh* One just can't win with a child sometimes.

She even asked me the other night for some financial advice (I felt like telling her to ask her little college jock bf her questions... .but I didn't want to start a fight).

I'm the parent now more than ever. With my somewhat elderly mother, too, though I stepped back from the that role a bit in the past few years, letting my mom live on the edge because that is what she chooses to do. I signed on for 2 kids, and ended up with 4. Good grief!

[Octoberfest]

Octoberfest,

I know I'm a newbie here but as for moving on after many failed relationships in my life, I feel like a Dr. Phil.     Anyway, I'm not sure if I interpreted your first post correctly but it sounded like you did "some digging"?  If I read it right, you're doing some kinda archeological work on the past maybe?  If so, why?  What good does that do you?  I personally had to stop deciphering past events and searching for clues as to what went wrong and why.  It's a futile effort.  All that does is bring me back there again and we all know there's no future in the past.   Once again, I hope I understood your post correctly but if I didn't, then I sincerely apologize.

When I said digging I meant I did some snooping really- looked at her facebook page. Why? I don't have a good answer.  Morbid curiosity I guess. 

I've been told over and over by my mom that it isn't going to do me any good to think about all of this as much as I have and continue to. That I should get out and do things instead.  You are right in the regard that I am not going to find something hidden in the past that explains everything away or makes it OK.  I dwell so much and think and wonder so that I can process- I got tired long ago of being out, going about my day and having something someone says, or a place I drive by, or something I see, trigger me and dredge up an especially painful memory concerning my BPDex that sends my mood crashing down.  So I think and ponder in an effort to combat those triggers head on.  I dwell on the greatest instances of hurt not because I hope to find something that explains it away or makes it ok, but rather to come to terms with it and accept it in a way that is less harmful to myself, so I do not run into that specific trap when I am out and about living my life.

A side note- She also got a dog right around the time we split, something she used against me by telling me that, "Oh <your replacement> and I got a dog and we are thinking about moving in together".  At this point in time, although I don't know for sure, I'm pretty sure my replacement (the guy she was cheating on me with at the end) isn't in her life anymore, nor is the one after that.  Anyhow, she named the dog Kuma.  Given the eeriness of the translation I posted in this thread I googled "Kuma" and found my way to wikipedia where it told me "Kuma" had a few different meanings in different languages.  Totally coincidentally, it means "Cu*t" in Swahili.  I got a pretty good giggle out of that, for reasons I don't fully understand.  Call me sick I suppose.

[Octoberfest]

I actually think there is value in seeing "it is what it is" as long as it isn't followed with an apathetic can't-do attitude. It is fine to acknowledge the situation, which isn't the same as saying nothing can be done.

A thought occurred to me as I was going back through this thread- Of course, it is good to be grounded and be able to acknowledge and accept ones current reality, because what follows after is where you formulate your plan to get where you want to be. 

With my BPDex however, that second critical part is missing.  The "it is what it is" is IT.  There is nothing to follow... .it my BPDex giving up the reigns (read: responsibility) of her actions/behavior. 

When we would split and talk after she would say things like, "it breaks my heart to lose you but it is what it is"... .to which I think, "well, no, actually if you hadn't of cheated and lied things would be just fine."

I see it more as my BPDex's way of passing up responsibility for her actions and the realities she finds herself in because of them, and instead attributing them to life having dealt her a cruel hand, i.e. it is what it is.  Or what will be, will be. 

[goldylamont]

i just had to let go completely of wishing or wanting my ex to take any responsibility or act in any way as if our r/s meant something to her.

here's what i know for myself--the r/s definitely meant something to me, and i'm proud of that. the r/s definitely meant something to her, at least much of the time, regardless of how fake and toxic she acted towards the end and afterwards.

but you know, her behaviors have forced me to downgrade her completely in my mind. and i'm saying this now not to talk isht and not to sling mud. this is actually a painful thing to do as this was someone i once had so much respect for. so, i just need to dismantle this respect since it doesn't serve the reality of who she is, and i like being real.

sadness and grief are emotions that slow you down (or the stronger depression will literally make you stop). and you (rightfully) feel sad now Octoberfest because your body is letting you know that you still need to let go of something. so, if you don't do it yourself, eventually you're going to get a signal from your sadness "hey buddy, slow down and let go. let me flow out so you can move on to another emotion".

and what you need to let go of is the notion that your xBPDgf is someone that meets your standards of integrity, honesty and character. she isn't this person. she is not and will never, ever meet your standards.

you're not doing it to be mean, you must do it to be balanced. always ask your sadness "what do i need to let go of?".

... Anyhow, she named the dog Kuma... .Totally coincidentally, it means "Cu*t" in Swahili.  I got a pretty good giggle out of that, for reasons I don't fully understand.  Call me sick I suppose.

So, is Kuma a b*tch?  sorry, i couldn't resist. that's a hilarious story Octoberfest 

[Octoberfest]

i just had to let go completely of wishing or wanting my ex to take any responsibility or act in any way as if our r/s meant something to her.

here's what i know for myself--the r/s definitely meant something to me, and i'm proud of that. the r/s definitely meant something to her, at least much of the time, regardless of how fake and toxic she acted towards the end and afterwards.

but you know, her behaviors have forced me to downgrade her completely in my mind. and i'm saying this now not to talk isht and not to sling mud. this is actually a painful thing to do as this was someone i once had so much respect for. so, i just need to dismantle this respect since it doesn't serve the reality of who she is, and i like being real.



sadness and grief are emotions that slow you down (or the stronger depression will literally make you stop). and you (rightfully) feel sad now Octoberfest because your body is letting you know that you still need to let go of something. so, if you don't do it yourself, eventually you're going to get a signal from your sadness "hey buddy, slow down and let go. let me flow out so you can move on to another emotion".



and what you need to let go of is the notion that your xBPDgf is someone that meets your standards of integrity, honesty and character. she isn't this person. she is not and will never, ever meet your standards.

you're not doing it to be mean, you must do it to be balanced. always ask your sadness "what do i need to let go of?".

... Anyhow, she named the dog Kuma... .Totally coincidentally, it means "Cu*t" in Swahili.  I got a pretty good giggle out of that, for reasons I don't fully understand.  Call me sick I suppose.

So, is Kuma a b*tch?  sorry, i couldn't resist. that's a hilarious story Octoberfest 

Wow... .you hit on a lot of things that really speak to me.

I do think a lot of my continuing grief is that I formed such a strong image of my BPDex in my mind as being a good, respectable person with integrity.  I had to; with all of the cheating and lying, I had to make her the victim and the other players in the game the sole villains. Having to confront the reality that the person I fell in love with (the only person I've ever fallen in love with) is NOT respectable, is NOT loyal, does NOT have integrity, is NOT honest is incredibly hard and very uncomfortable.  I still find myself today getting uncomfortable when friends call her a slut or a bhit for the things she did to me, and a part of me fires up to go to her defense... .the same friends who I came to myself and told about all of the cheating and lies.

I also think you are right in saying I still need to let go of something.  I think that something may be what I discussed above... .but I have yet to be able to really get a grasp on it.  Cognitive dissonance... .that is the term I was looking for.  To have had such a high opinion and thoughts of my BPDex, and to see a different reality in her actions.  A mental battle ensues trying to eliminate the difference, and it isn't easy when you are trying to hard to hold onto someones' love.

Also I believe the dog is a boy.  That bit I threw in is neither here nor there, just me being upset and lashing out anyway I could.

[Turkish]

I do think a lot of my continuing grief is that I formed such a strong image of my BPDex in my mind as being a good, respectable person with integrity.  I had to; with all of the cheating and lying, I had to make her the victim and the other players in the game the sole villains. Having to confront the reality that the person I fell in love with (the only person I've ever fallen in love with) is NOT respectable, is NOT loyal, does NOT have integrity, is NOT honest is incredibly hard and very uncomfortable. 

Mine had the gall to call herself a "woman of character" in an email the other month, and all but said I was not a man of character. What a loon.

I still find myself today getting uncomfortable when friends call her a slut or a bhit for the things she did to me, and a part of me fires up to go to her defense... .the same friends who I came to myself and told about all of the cheating and lies.

Mine aren't pulling any punches now. One of them previously showed some mercy due to me sharing with him the BPD (and we "diagnosing" his lost sister, it fits her well), but now he is just mad at her. Same with my T. Still, I feel this need to show compassion and mercy. I hate it!

[Octoberfest]

I do think a lot of my continuing grief is that I formed such a strong image of my BPDex in my mind as being a good, respectable person with integrity.  I had to; with all of the cheating and lying, I had to make her the victim and the other players in the game the sole villains. Having to confront the reality that the person I fell in love with (the only person I've ever fallen in love with) is NOT respectable, is NOT loyal, does NOT have integrity, is NOT honest is incredibly hard and very uncomfortable. 

Mine had the gall to call herself a "woman of character" in an email the other month, and all but said I was not a man of character. What a loon.

I still find myself today getting uncomfortable when friends call her a slut or a bhit for the things she did to me, and a part of me fires up to go to her defense... .the same friends who I came to myself and told about all of the cheating and lies.

Mine aren't pulling any punches now. One of them previously showed some mercy due to me sharing with him the BPD (and we "diagnosing" his lost sister, it fits her well), but now he is just mad at her. Same with my T. Still, I feel this need to show compassion and mercy. I hate it!

It sucks... .to be treated so poorly, with such little respect, and to still want to support them and to have a weakness for them. 

My BPDex even told me on a few occasions that she wasn't a good person. One time she told me, "Forget about me.  I was never good for you.  You are so much better of a person than I could ever dream of being, and as sad as that is, we both know it is true.  So just forget it ok.  Forget about all of the garbage I brought into your life and go be that amazing man that I know that you are". 

My reaction?

I wanted to tell her, "You CAN be as good as me! I can help you!".

Here she was, being honest and forthright for a rare moment, and I wanted to dive further down the rabbit hole, all for a person who caused me more pain and grief than anyone ever before.

[snappafcw]

Octoberfest my girlfriend wrote all that stuff word for word to me too when she was breaking up with me via txt message. I have heard all of your horror stories over the months and i'm starting to think the less I know of what happened the better... .

[Conundrum]

It sucks... .to be treated so poorly, with such little respect, and to still want to support them and to have a weakness for them.  

My BPDex even told me on a few occasions that she wasn't a good person. One time she told me, "Forget about me.  I was never good for you.  You are so much better of a person than I could ever dream of being, and as sad as that is, we both know it is true.  So just forget it ok.  Forget about all of the garbage I brought into your life and go be that amazing man that I know that you are".  

My reaction?

I wanted to tell her, "You CAN be as good as me! I can help you!".

Here she was, being honest and forthright for a rare moment, and I wanted to dive further down the rabbit hole, all for a person who caused me more pain and grief than anyone ever before.

I think that at your young age it is very important for you to truly internalize that her actions say substantively little about who you are as a man. I know that it is difficult to accept, because you feel diminished when cheated on--but her actions only trivially resemble run-of-the-mill tawdry deceptions. There are deeply rooted psychological components present, that go way beyond the reasons why allegedly normal women cheat. This is heavy stuff to have to deal with at such a young age. In fact, IMO, it's too much of a burden for a young man to have to carry around. To let the pain go, and accept that she didn't per se cheat "on you," that you weren't her target--is very difficult to accept.

Women with BPD who possess traits similar to your x, wreak havoc, and always cause collateral damage. It's their nature. But do not feel shame over feeling compassion towards them--they truly are torn asunder by conflict and shadows. What you've probably learned already from all of this--is that desiring to save a damaged woman, will bring the dogs of war raining down upon you. Accept them for who they are--or do not. It's an important lesson to learn.

[Aw511]

This thread hits so close to home. My ex still says things like "can't dwell on it" and "things just didn't work out" and it just blows my mind. I want to shake him and scream and say YOU DID THIS! Last week  I said to him if you truly believe things just "didn't work out" that's really sad, and it is. He can't take the blame. He needs to think we "both made mistakes" in order to have hope for his future. He has said so many times during and after our relationship how he doesn't deserve someone as good as me. I feel sorry for him. I have a feeling this is how his life will always be. God bless his  twisted soul... .

[bruisedbattered]

"Que sera, sera"... .

I have a good friend, who knows what I went through with my BPDxgf.     He saw a therapist when he was younger for his own personal issues, but explained to me what his therapist had told him. 

  He was told about "Buddy Syndrome".

It's when someone basically becomes buddies with their illness, using it as a crutch, and justification to do as they please.  This is exactly how my xgf approaches everything, her ilness is her buddy.   Her fault?  of course not, never... .   We all have problems, how nice it would be to accept them as part of who we are and not accept responsiblity for our actions!   Im often jealous of BPD... ., but I know its all a facade, and they are in fact empty, shallow, and ugly people in  their hearts.

NC 6 weeks.

BNB.   

[Octoberfest]

It sucks... .to be treated so poorly, with such little respect, and to still want to support them and to have a weakness for them.  

My BPDex even told me on a few occasions that she wasn't a good person. One time she told me, "Forget about me.  I was never good for you.  You are so much better of a person than I could ever dream of being, and as sad as that is, we both know it is true.  So just forget it ok.  Forget about all of the garbage I brought into your life and go be that amazing man that I know that you are".  

My reaction?

I wanted to tell her, "You CAN be as good as me! I can help you!".

Here she was, being honest and forthright for a rare moment, and I wanted to dive further down the rabbit hole, all for a person who caused me more pain and grief than anyone ever before.

I think that at your young age it is very important for you to truly internalize that her actions say substantively little about who you are as a man. I know that it is difficult to accept, because you feel diminished when cheated on--but her actions only trivially resemble run-of-the-mill tawdry deceptions. There are deeply rooted psychological components present, that go way beyond the reasons why allegedly normal women cheat. This is heavy stuff to have to deal with at such a young age. In fact, IMO, it's too much of a burden for a young man to have to carry around. To let the pain go, and accept that she didn't per se cheat "on you," that you weren't her target--is very difficult to accept.

Women with BPD who possess traits similar to your x, wreak havoc, and always cause collateral damage. It's their nature. But do not feel shame over feeling compassion towards them--they truly are torn asunder by conflict and shadows. What you've probably learned already from all of this--is that desiring to save a damaged woman, will bring the dogs of war raining down upon you. Accept them for who they are--or do not. It's an important lesson to learn.

Thank you for your words. The biggest struggle I have had in my young life thus far has been BELIEVING what I know to be true.  I know enough about her past, about her experiences even before we met, and I have kept close enough tabs on her since we split 7 months ago to know that, yes, she didn't cheat specifically "on me".  She does it with everyone. The behavior that I witnessed has continued with the others after me.  So I know this... .but the emotional part of me has a hard time believing it. 

I learned so much from my experience with my BPDex- I still am.  I would never say that I am grateful that it happened; but because it did I have to try and take what positives I can from it.  I do wish that my first ever relationship, and the first time I fell in love, had not been with my BPDex, and that I had not had the experience I did set the tone for what I know thus far... .but what can you do, but try and do it better next time.

I fell into the trap of thinking I could finally give myself some value by "saving" my BPDex. The truth is I DON'T WANT a partner, a wife, who has the past that my BPDex does, nevermind all of the things that are going to happen in her life in the future.  I am so blessed to be free- I have the opportunity to find someone who I can actually respect, who others can respect, where there isn't baggage, and where there is trust.  It is just hard to see that always.

[fromheeltoheal]

it sounded like you did "some digging"?  If I read it right, you're doing some kinda archeological work on the past maybe?  If so, why?  What good does that do you?  I personally had to stop deciphering past events and searching for clues as to what went wrong and why.  It's a futile effort.  All that does is bring me back there again and we all know there's no future in the past.   

Yes, and a brighter future is created by learning from the past.  We're not going to 'figure out' a borderline, but speaking for myself, I had extremely strong emotions both ways, many ways, in that relationship, stronger than I've felt in a long time, and the lessons that stick with us are the ones with a lot of emotional content.  And the only useless pain is the pain we don't learn from.  Over the last year and a half my focus had shifted from all her, to us, to nothing but me, and it seems, now that I've got my feet back on the ground, that all my priorities have changed and I'm seeing life through a different lens, a better one, the relationship was a huge wake-up call if nothing else, but the objective reflection on events from the relationship once I was emotionally detached have taught me a great deal about myself.

On the original topic, my ex used to say "don't say how things are going to be" all the time, which meant a couple of things: first, she really didn't know how things were going to be since the chaos is such that she can't have sustainable emotions or viewpoints on virtually anything, and second, the forced spontaneity without commitment kept me on edge and she knew it; there was no sitting down and talking something through, reaching an agreement, and moving forward, it was always 'don't say how things are going to be.'

[goldylamont]

I think that at your young age it is very important for you to truly internalize that her actions say substantively little about who you are as a man. I know that it is difficult to accept, because you feel diminished when cheated on--but her actions only trivially resemble run-of-the-mill tawdry deceptions. There are deeply rooted psychological components present, that go way beyond the reasons why allegedly normal women cheat. This is heavy stuff to have to deal with at such a young age. In fact, IMO, it's too much of a burden for a young man to have to carry around. To let the pain go, and accept that she didn't per se cheat "on you," that you weren't her target--is very difficult to accept.

Women with BPD who possess traits similar to your x, wreak havoc, and always cause collateral damage. It's their nature. But do not feel shame over feeling compassion towards them--they truly are torn asunder by conflict and shadows. What you've probably learned already from all of this--is that desiring to save a damaged woman, will bring the dogs of war raining down upon you. Accept them for who they are--or do not. It's an important lesson to learn.

Conundrum thank you for this. It feels good hearing you say this. And we all have to learn to depersonalize the experience. Take responsibility for our part in it, but depersonalize toxic repetitive parts that they brought to the r/s.

Also I wanted to comment on dealing with hearing others refer to my ex in a negative light--this was 2 sided for me. In one way it was validating and allowed me to see that she had issues on her own, that other men in my position were being hurt and often behaved with less tact than I had although I had much more at stake. But of course the flip side to hearing negative stuff about my ex was that it was hard to *not* take it personally because, at least for me this was someone who I had shared several years of my life with. Although I disagreed with her I did trust her. I just don't want to think that I invested so much time in a "whore", c-word, s-word/b-word good god all the words, her ex's, a couple of my friends, some of hers have called her. I never would have started a r/s with someone of this character so seeing her get this reaction from others was both shocking but also painful. She didn't act like that when we were together--difficult and emotionally abusive, I'll admit to that but it's almost like she acted better while we were in our r/s then just lost it as we were breaking up.

So, I think it was important for me to hear these things so I could understand the reality of the situation. However I also feel the need to see that I wasn't all bad and she wasn't all bad (at least while we were together) because it's important for me to see some value in the time I spent in the r/s, regardless of how she now portrays things. It may be important to tell your friends that while you do want to know the truth from them, that you'd appreciate it if they choose their words wisely. Our devaluation needs to be done on our terms and with as much respect as we can muster for the other, and with utmost and 100% respect for ourselves.

[necchi]

she is not and will never, ever meet your standards.



Thank you this is something i needed to  realized