serious concerns for gd8

[qcarolr]

gd brought up very distressing topic that has been troubling her for over a year. triggerd by two sisters, one her age and one a year younger. she has been unable to talk about until earlier this week. tonight she was hiding in her room with laptop, lights out. she responded violently when i said needed to see what she was searching. i have all blocks on this browser. she got the biggest knife from kitchen drawer with threat to kill me if I looked it up. dh took knife away, we sat and assured of our love no matter what her behaviors are. rubbed her back, she settled quickly.

this has to do with story from sister year younger and some kind of inappropriate sexual exposure. i talked with the mom about this when it came up during a playdate over a year ago, got info from child services that i forwarded to her. i am distressed that i did not supervise their play more diligently, and allowed gd to have a few playdates at their dad's house in our neighborhood. they moved last summer. gd misses them a lot.

something to do with her research project on frogs an toads triggered this a couple months ago. she would not talk about it until this week. she was searching for a picture of her pet toad when this all came up. now this secret searching and threat of violence.

Need your thoughts and prayers for guidance in dealing with this. for my own childhood sexual abuse issues to stay out of the way. to know who in my support network here to reach out to and still respect gd's intense distress.

qcr :'(

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[swampped]

I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this, qcr.  No great wisdom here, but if gd8 is asleep now, I would hope you could go to sleep too, and save the thinking about this for the morning.  Could you discuss the issue with her therapist on Monday?  It was not clear to me---do you know that something happened to gd8 one year ago, or was it to one of the other girls?  And have you figured out how the frog triggered her?  I hope you can sleep, get to church tomorrow morning, and find some peace.  The Lord knows you deserve it.  You will be in my thoughts and prayers tonight.      Swampped

[js friend]

 

Wow qcarolr,

Im so sad to hear of this latest development. It must have been a very scary time for you all, gd included.

I wonder if this outburst could have been triggered if your gd found info on the reproduction of the frogs during her reasearch. You know sometimes One thing leads to another on these internet searches.

I think you handled it really well by staying calm yourselves and reassuring gd through her distress.

Gd obviously is trying to squash these memories and needs to talk about what happened. It seems like your gd has soo much fear there bottled up inside her that somehow you will have to bring it out into the open and make her see that it is ok to talk about and she wont be rejected or judged or disbelieved.Is there someone at school you could speak to that gd likes and trusts maybe a favourite teacher or a child counsellor.

I think talking to gd's T as swammped has suggested is an excellent idea for a first step.

Maybe gd also needs reassureance that her friends who have moved away are safe and not being harmed.Would you be able to talk to the girls mom to find out what has happened since they moved away. 

[Gidget]

So sorry qcarolr,

You sure go thru a lot also sorry for your own childhood trauma it must be really hard and scary for you. I am sure not a therapist here to give you the guidance but maybe actually seeing and feeling the issues you felt when you were young might give you the very insight to how to approach gd. How to reach out and talk about these issues. Good Luck and I hope all is ok with gd. Don't blame yourself for that playdate.

[qcarolr]

I did sleep last night. Gd has been sharing many small bits over the past couple weeks about what seemed like innocent playground stuff that may be part of triggering her fear and curiosity. Someone is using the 'F' word and talking about what it means. A particular boy is trying to kiss the girls at recess and ending up in the principal's office. She has talked about the little song being sung but in a more explicit way: A and B sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g;... .  Sometimes she substitutes the 'f' word in place of kissing. I have tried to be non-reactive to this.

I checked the history on the laptop after she went to bed. She was watching utube "Spying on people having sex" and live birth videos.  I know her sister friends were present at the birth of their baby brother, who was a new infant when gd first met these girls. He is almost 3 now. She was writing notes. She said to me when I took the computer she was wanting to understand what s-e-x was about.

Looking back I wish that my response had been quieter and more mindful and listening. I realize that I have been very distracted this past week with her home - worrying about how to spend time with her mom at Christmas, fitting work into my schedule without child care, etc.

The best approach I can take this week is to allow gd to tell her story as it comes up from a mindful, open, loving place. Stay in the moment, no judgements or discussion or advice giving. I understand this - now to stay in that mindful, calm place to snuggle and listen. I suggested this approach to dh before he left for work this morning. Storytelling.

I also have many memories around this age of curiosity and game playing with friends. Experimenting with kissing a boy, playing doctor, often with my siblings and a group of our friends. It was pretty open and not secretive. My dh also has some stories about exploration and curiosity during this 'middle childhood' stage. When did the shame take over?

Dh took the knife threat as a personal, deliberate attack toward me. My belief is this is a display of the deep shame gd feels about the whole topic of physical contact. From all the learning I have done with many resources, including those here, these threatening behaviors are much more an acting out against herself than against me. It is a more extreme version of her calling herself stupid and punching herself when she makes a mistake, any mistake.

How did she get to this place? Such sadness I feel that I failed in protecting her in our home. From my own inconsistent, high emotional behaviors as well as her mom's. And my responses to her mom. Perhaps she has also experienced exposure to sexual behaviors or pornography in her mom's room that I am unaware of. I have to let gd tell her story. Stop trying to mind read and make all these assumptions. Gd's life experiences are hers, and I can help her bring them into the open and make them a part of her narrative - her story. I need the T to help me understand the safe way to be there for gd.

I did leave a message last week with the T about the stories gd was sharing about school, and her focus on this topic. GD has an appt. on Tuesday. I will leave another message if I get a private moment today while gd is at play. Then I need to trust the T to know how to manage this in therapy. I have an appt. with her on Friday. I have an appt with my T on Tuesday. Dh and I are talking quietly together about how to approach this.

qcr

[Esperança_Hope]

Qcarolr, I´m sorry gd is so threatened with the knife and so on. Of coarse she ´s shamed.  nothing else, ok? it´s not personal. GD loves you so much and trust a lot .

What a situation! I don´t know what to say. You´re doing well. Let´s see what Gd ´s T will tell you o next Friday!  I know is not good to make assumptions but i´d care about YOU assumptions because you are very clevar and you learned a lot with all this BPD cross we carry 

I think this desire to know about sex is expected. She is 8 and all this studies ecc... makes her ^really extremely curious about it all. But please don´t feel you failed. Never! Please qcarolr this will not help amnyone... .and you don´t deserve this bad feeling. Don´t forghet children has high imagination, fantasies! It´s freudian.  Maybe she saw sexual intercourse , maybe not. My feeling is she is excited because  she is begining to have this issues in her mind. Keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Let me know about Friday´s gd´s T, ok? love you

[peaceplease]

qcr.

  I hope you are feeling better today.  You have kept your gd safe.  You are in my thoughts and prayers that you are guided with words of wisdom when talking to your gd.  IMHO, think the knife was that she was so shamed and really did not want you to see what she was looking at.

Her T will be able to guide you with this.  Please do not blame yourself.

Please let us know how it went with T.

peace

[Thursday]

Hi q-

I just hate to hear of your GD's distress. I think with a kid this age you just never know but I would, if I were you, be diligent at getting to the truth (and I mean finding out if she has been molested, or finding out what she has seen, what she knows, what misinformation she might have).

I talked to my nonDD about the nuts and bolts of sex when she was only 7. She asked about how a baby gets into a mother's stomach and I answered. It was SO hard- like a leap off a cliff. I didn't look her in the eye to make this an easier discussion and I had no road map. My parents never said anything to me about sex and I was determined not to be so stilted and unable as they were in my own parenting.

It is my hunch that your GD grabbed a knife and threatened you  because she has seen similarly aggressive behavior from your BPDDD when DD has wanted you off her back.

This all needs to be weeded through in therapy. I think it would be a great idea for your gd to understand that these sorts of difficulties are what her therapy is FOR.

Maybe none of this is as bad as your projection that she might have been abused. To me it sounds more like she has seen something... .(her internet search) that scared her and she knows from her perspective that sexual questioning, talk, etc. is taboo to discuss.

Can you talk to her without having to be face to face? In a darkened room maybe side by side in her bed on a rainy day? (I wouldn't associate this with sleep as it might be too scary for her to settle down afterwards) Using lots of validation, lots of encouragement of your love for her as others here have said. But I wouldn't expect that reminding her of your love will necessarily break the barrier she has built up. Maybe telling her it is your job to figure out what is going on with her can help you find an opening.

:'( :'(

thursday

[qcarolr]

Met with pdoc this morning. Regular follow up visit. Gd and I talked in car on way there. Gd started conversation asking about people with road rage - we have experienced this in the past. This led to how scary angry people are. I tried to follow her lead in this conversation to see where it would go. She brought up how scary drunk people are and this is from experiencing her mom's bf's at our house, and her mom. Talked about the porn on the computer and how she asked me to take it away - and she told me to destroy that computer! But she would miss her cool math games!. Talked about making it safe with new software at computer store - let them make the computer safer and we would always do computer together.

She also shared about times her grandpa and I feel scary to her. When I yell; when dh grabs her arm when she is acting out.  Talked about safety a lot in all her environments.

I brought this all up with pdoc. He let her play angry birds on the kindle while we talked - he usually does not allow games in his office.This helped gd to have a way to be in control of how involved she was in conversation. Also shared about her bad dreams, fears of someone killing her pets (fish, toad), intruder fears. I understand why transistion to bed is so hard for her!

primary domains for gd (pdoc's word) are ADHD and Anxiety. There are issues at school in both these areas. He talked about the impact of meds on PTSD/anxiety and ADHD. WE will continue the inutniv and do a trial of adderall. He is a very cautious pdoc - adding only one med at a time and trying to do it when child home to be monitored by parents, not teachers.

Gd seems more relaxed today. She will have her T appointment on Thursday. I will see T alone on Friday. Will continue to listen for gd to open talking about this. Curious how the T will approach.

qcr

[js friend]

Im so glad that your gd is able to communicate what her fears are qcarolr. So good to address this emotion.

When my children were little I brought a childrens book called "I feel scared" that we all used to read together quite often. I dont know if its still around but if it is, it is a good little book to have at home.

[qcarolr]

We do have a book like that. I will ask gd if she wants to read. she often says no, it makes her fears worse.

Pdoc was thinking something tiggered all this - PTSD reaction. Will have to work through it with patience. Sadly, I am struggling with my own feelings in this.

Conflict now - T appt not tomorrow. It is thursday and gd has her horse riding camp. I want her to go this is her favorite activity, very therapeutic, she really feels safe and loved by instructor.

Gd is jumping rope around the kitchen, drawing pictures of her fish, eating popcorn -- really too wound up to go to sleep. 10pm here. Not wanting much to do with me tonight. Dh is handling an on-call emergency from his work - plumbing. And he has to be at work 2 hours early - 6am. He is going to bed.

Playdate with friend from her class. First time. Hope it works out - the mom calling in morning to arrange. gd is soo bored.

Gotta go.

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Gidget]

Good Luck qcarolr sounds like your making some head ways talking to her. Good that she is opening up to you. This porn stuff on these computers sicken me they need to me made illegal. Worry about my granddaughter on there although my daughter seems to really monitor her, you can't monitor them day and night.

My daughter slept with me until the age of 10 always had trouble sleeping in her bed. She also voiced to me once she didn't like the way my brother touched her and to tell me to never touch her again. That was in 5th grade she always had trouble communicating her feelings to me. I asked her if anything ever happened she said just tell me. I did and also told my mother. I always worried that something more had happened. As an adult she always voiced she didn't like him.

Thank God you gd is letting these feelings out to you and sharing them I realize how much my daughter and I never really communicated. I have to take some responsibility for that. Wish they had the computer 35years ago when she was young I could have had so much more insight by looking things up. Well I vowed I will no longer beat myself up but move forward trying to talk now. Hadn't heard from her since Xmas little disappointed but will hope.

Stay strong you sound like a loving and great person who must be really exhausted! Hope you have a better New Year I wish for one every year

Take Care

[qcarolr]

Update: things are better with gd. She started Adderall for her ADHD a week ago. Increased dose today. She is so much more focused. She also had a playdate last week and today with a friend from school that went well. Gd spent 2 hours cleaning her room before her friend came today. Put all her little treasures in gallon zip-lock bags, put them in a big tub stashed under a table in my home office (along with a couple of other tubs). She can look through the bags to find what she wants without dumping it all on the floor.

This is the first time EVER that she initiated this, and asked me to stay out of her room while she did it. She let me vacuum before we left to pick up her friend. They had a great time for 4 hours - no conflicts, no jealousy, no whining... .

Gd is also reading everything she can get her hands on. Magazines, her books, over my shoulder when I am on my computer (limits my time here!)... .   When cleaning her room today she came out several times to say, Grandma I keep reading a book instead of picking up. She is so surprised with herself.

I think her friend made a quick comment last week on how messy gd's room was. I am in awe of her ability to put this into positive power to clean up instead of letting it bog her down. My DD (her mom) would have never invited the friend over again. Gd wanted her to come and cleaned up her room. What a nice feeling gd got when here friend said nice things to her about it today.

What an awesomely normal parenting experience for me!

Gd has her next T visit on Thursday. I will update again after that.

qcr

[mggt]

Dear Qcr, So happy for your gd when they have a good day we have a great day saying prayers she will stay on track 

[Thursday]

Sounds like the Adderall is doing well for her... . seems like she really "feels" the difference in focus she is experiencing and she likes it! Such awesomeness! 

[qcarolr]

Well Tuesday was a total meltdown disaster after school for gd. The 10mg of adderall was too much. She had bad headache starting in afternoon at school; she did not eat much during day and refused food or drink at home; by 4pm she was compulsively tracing horses from a book, not doing it to her satisfaction, cried and traced until 7pm. Would not allow any kind of comfort. Was hitting, scratching me. Finally got her to take some advil at 7 and  her headache started to get better. She at least drank some water, accepted my hugging hold until she calmed down enough to sit with DH and watch TV. She wanted me to be out of the room, so I read in the next room.

She has not been going to sleep until 11pm. SHe is so tired. Then school that day must have added to the fatigue plus the stimulation... .

Cut her med. back to 5mg yesterday and got her in to see both T and pdoc today, He has added clonidine to help her sleep, leave at smaller dose of adderall and watch for any mood changes. The hard part is the attention effects are so good. Got positive feedback already from her teacher after only 2 days, and see this at home too. She is doing OK tonight. We will see how bedtime goes.

Gd is old enough to participate in the sessions. The T gave gd some anger management flash cards and shared that gd is afraid she will hurt her pet toadlet. She so loves this toad. Has told me of her nightmares that someone is going to kill it. My belief is that dreaming contents are really aspects of ourselves. She must feel on the edge of out of control. And it must feel so bad for her. So very very very grateful for this excellent T, and for dh to be willing to participate.

Will let you all know how things go tomorrow.

qcr