Getting the Silent Treatment...

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've always been the rescuer, the placater and the peace maker.  My mother was vicious over Christmas.  She caused a major scene in a store, then raged for over half an hour.  I sat pretty unresponsive, unable to believe some of the comments that she was screaming.  One thing I have learned is that she can only be happy when she reduces me to tears, so I didn't give her the satisfaction.  She ended up going home early with her husband-leaving another scar upon the holidays. 

I had NC for nearly 2 weeks before I could speak to her.  When I finally did, she claimed that she had been "kidding" in the store (she had snatched an item from my hands).  She did offer a very weak apology for her rage.  This was followed by an fb message to me saying that I needed to take responsibility for some slight that I did over 1 1/2 years ago.  I didn't respond.

Now it is very quiet, not typical behavior for her.

I am trying to stay out of the FOG.  I know as soon as I cave, I will be deluged with my supposed failings again. 

I hate all the games we have to play.

[Legacymaker]

I've always been the rescuer, the placater and the peace maker.  My mother was vicious over Christmas.  She caused a major scene in a store, then raged for over half an hour.  I sat pretty unresponsive, unable to believe some of the comments that she was screaming.  One thing I have learned is that she can only be happy when she reduces me to tears, so I didn't give her the satisfaction.  She ended up going home early with her husband-leaving another scar upon the holidays. 

I had NC for nearly 2 weeks before I could speak to her.  When I finally did, she claimed that she had been "kidding" in the store (she had snatched an item from my hands).  She did offer a very weak apology for her rage.  This was followed by an fb message to me saying that I needed to take responsibility for some slight that I did over 1 1/2 years ago.  I didn't respond.

Now it is very quiet, not typical behavior for her.

I am trying to stay out of the FOG.  I know as soon as I cave, I will be deluged with my supposed failings again. 

I hate all the games we have to play.

[Sitara]

she claimed that she had been "kidding" in the store

I've heard this same excuse more times than I can count.  Was it also followed by a "you need to be less sensitive"?  It's a way to deflect responsibility and leaves you feeling invalidated.  It was her way of saying to me I had no right to be angry because she didn't really mean it.

Now it is very quiet, not typical behavior for her.

Silent treatment was my mom's go-to, so I'm fairly inoculated to it, and generally enjoyed having a break from her drama.  We could go for months without talking - and I thought this was normal.  I can understand how painful it is especially being a new behavior - it's petty, it's passive-aggressive, and hurtful (kind of a way to withhold love).  It is considered emotional abuse.  And it hurts.

I know as soon as I cave, I will be deluged with my supposed failings again.

Stay strong and hold those boundaries!

I hate all the games we have to play.

The best way I've been able to come up with to describe my relationship with my mom is that it's like a card game: the deck is stacked in her favor, and the rules are constantly changing to ensure she can't lose.  There's no way to win a game like that - and so I refused to play.  I suppose an alternative would also be play a different game - one of your choosing!  But yes, I agree, I get tired of feeling like it's all just a game of trying to maneuver pieces so that one person has an advantage.  I just wanted it to be a partnership - more like a team sport.

[Legacymaker]

Sitara,

You always sound so strong!  I agree the cards seem to always be stacked in her favor.  I told my t that I would just like to know the woman that so many other people adore. 

My youngest son gives me the impression that my mother has been "talking" to him recently.  We tried to explain a little to him last night, letting him know that we are aware of the backstabbing behaviors that she illicits and we hope that he will tell her he doesn't want to be put in the middle.  Our goal is not to turn him against his grandmother (who he adores) but it is time for me to start standing up for myself.  I don't usually tell my kids of my families behavior problems.  We really do try to keep it away from them (even as adults).

In an attempt to have a family, I have protected the behaviors of many family members.  They have been on platforms so long and now I always end up looking like the bad guy when the ivory towers begin to crumble.

Except with my own spouse/kids-I'm not sure I can even visualize a relationship that is an equal partnership!

[Sitara]

"Stubborn" is a more accurate description for me. 

Honestly, I'm pretty much done with my FOO, and focusing on my life.  I have a fair amount of BPD fleas I'm working on, and I find that, at least for now, I do better at remembering to focus on them when I come here and read and interact with other people.  Listening gives me perspective and reminds me what I'm working to prevent my kids from feeling.  I can often remember the correct course of action I should be taking when I have time to sit and look at it on the computer, preparing my responses, but trying to remember exactly how I should react when my 4 year old is pushing my buttons in the heat of the moment is harder.  So the more I think about things on these forums, the more I can modify my behavior in real life, and hopefully one day it will just become second nature to properly react to him.

It's hard to know what you should tell your kids.  I think about that all the time - what do I tell him, how much do I tell him.  He remembers her from before our move, so sometimes he talks about her and sometimes says he misses her, but so far we haven't had to do any real deep discussions about it.  And my youngest doesn't even know who she is - despite living near her for the first year of his life, she probably saw him twice briefly.  I still have time to figure out what to tell him.  I'll probably be honest, but walking that line of being honest without bad-mouthing her is hard.

Definitely stand up for yourself.  I hope talking to your son helped him understand.

[Legacymaker]

The sad part for me is that she was a really great Grandmother when the boys were little.   Two of our sons are very close to her.  The other has always been painted "grey", moving towards black.  I'm not really sure when things got worse.  My husband and I can recollect years of arguing between her and I, her and my brother, her and my step-dad etc.  The past few years our sons have started to notice more of her "queen/witch like" behaviors.

The kids can't disagree with anything or she overrides their opinions and makes them feel stupid.  She had the nerve to call one of them ignorant.

Over Christmas our oldest was introducing his new girlfriend.  My mother told her, she thought he was gay when he was younger.  It is a very sensitive topic for him as he was bullied in high school about it.  (He is a very gentle and quiet kid).  Even after he told her it was innappropriate, she kept laughing at him.  He was really hurt.

The middle child took a beating when she projected her own behaviors onto him.  She got his brothers to gang up on him, then quietly stepped away.  She loves playing them off against each other.

My girlfriends often remind me that the kids are intelligent and that they probably are aware of more than I tell them.

The youngest did validate that they are noticing some odd behaviors lately.  I don't know if age is bringing out the worst in her or if she is just plain mean!  I do think the idea of her own mortality, is making things worse.  She is 70 and has been told she has a heart aneurysm.

[Sitara]

The sad part for me is that she was a really great Grandmother when the boys were little.

I thought this was true before she started babysitting for my oldest at the age of 1.  But she would ask a lot of questions she should know like, "I don't know what to feed him," "I can't get him to take a nap," or do age-inappropriate things with him and overreact when he didn't play the ways he wanted him too.  My husband eventually got a point where he would regularly say to me, "Are you sure you weren't raised by wolves instead?" because she was always asking simple questions about basic baby caretaking. 

I think my mom likes the preschool age because they're old enough to do everything you say but not quite old enough to say no or demand they do their own things.  Although I noticed a tendency with her to just want them around but not really do things with them.  When she'd take him for a weekend, it would sound like all he did was watch movies while she was in another room doing her hobby, or she'd have the slightly older girl cousin over at the same time to take care of him.  She would have my niece get him breakfast or tell her to play with him or put him to bed.  So basically the typical BPD behaviors: she wants them to do what she wants them to when she wants them to do it, and all other times she wants them to leave her alone and play quietly.

It was kind of a wake-up call for me, seeing her behavior from a different perspective.  Most of my happy memories of my mom are from this same age period, before she feels like I abandoned her for school or tried to become my own person or whatever.  But seeing her behavior with my son made me realize that things probably weren't quite what they seemed.

I've also noticed she has a gender-bias with the gkids.  She favors the girl over the boys.  She would tell me there was something wrong with my nephew for doing typical little boy behaviors.  The boys are also a lot harder to get to sit still and play quietly.

She got his brothers to gang up on him, then quietly stepped away.  She loves playing them off against each other.

I hate his behavior.  Like she has to make everyone feel as angry and unsettled as she feels.

I don't know if age is bringing out the worst in her or if she is just plain mean!

My mom is getting worse with age, but I don't know if it's age itself or that I'm "abandoning" her more and more (i.e. going to school, getting married, having kids, buying a house without her permission, etc.)

[lost and found]

Legacymaker and Sitara,

A lot of what you said really resonated with me. The accusations of "you're too sensitive", the silent treatment, having to excuse odd or malicious behavior, holding back tears because you know they enjoy seeing you cry. When you see it written down the abuse is really obvious. When you are living it in the moment sometimes it's less obvious.

Legacymaker, my heart really went out to your kids over  those stories, especially for your son introducing his new girlfriend and being shamed and teased by his grandmother. How embarrassing and difficult.

My kids are 12 and 14 now, and we decided to just tell them the truth about my family. We moved away when they were very little because of the roller coaster treatment of family visits turning into screaming fights followed by little contact. My family can and will continue to fight even if you don't fight back, or they will just fight with each other. I didn't want the kids exposed to that, plus my mother wasn't very interested in her grandchildren and I didn't want them to feel that coldness. My mother-in-law is a very affectionate grandma and we chose to live closer to her. Now have to travel 2,000 miles to visit any of my family, and we set up beforehand reasons to leave if we need to make a hasty exit. As the kids got older they were of course much more aware of all this, so I have told them the truth as gently as possible, that several of my family have mental illness issues that they deal with, that we want to still see them but that if we need to we will take a break and go back to visit the next day. The kids seem ok with that and my mom does ok with it too. I think she is able to handle small doses of the kids much better than feeling like she has to keep on ongoing relationship up and running. I just don't think she has the emotional resources to deal with children.

[arky]

I've always been the rescuer, the placater and the peace maker.  My mother was vicious over Christmas.  She caused a major scene in a store, then raged for over half an hour.  I sat pretty unresponsive, unable to believe some of the comments that she was screaming.  One thing I have learned is that she can only be happy when she reduces me to tears, so I didn't give her the satisfaction.  She ended up going home early with her husband-leaving another scar upon the holidays. 

I had NC for nearly 2 weeks before I could speak to her.  When I finally did, she claimed that she had been "kidding" in the store (she had snatched an item from my hands).  She did offer a very weak apology for her rage.  This was followed by an fb message to me saying that I needed to take responsibility for some slight that I did over 1 1/2 years ago.  I didn't respond.

Now it is very quiet, not typical behavior for her.

I am trying to stay out of the FOG.  I know as soon as I cave, I will be deluged with my supposed failings again. 

I hate all the games we have to play.

1. I can totally relate. I have always been the peacemaker with my mother, as well. To the point where I often feel like my needs are neglected altogether, which is incredibly frustrating and demeaning for me. Though my mother likes to play the innocent do gooder in public, she has been so relentless behind closed doors that I have been in tears. It was pretty awful when I still lived under the same roof.

2. I have immense FOG when I go NC. I would love to be permanently NC, but I can never seem to get there. In fact, she has called me twice while I'm typing this. I am trying to avoid her, at the moment.

I guess my point is, our situations seem very similar. I'd love to hear more on your story. I am exhausted with my own mother and reading stories that reflect similarities help me deal.

[Legacymaker]

Lost and found,

Are you living overseas?  My husbands family is all in England.  I know how hard it is on kids.  My biological father suffers from Schizoaffective Disorder (BiPolar/Schizophrenic).  He was well medicated and did fine through most of my kids childhood so I decided not to tell them.  He had a severe breakdown, threatened my son and disappeared.  I had to put an APB out on him and keep my kids locked in the house until they located him.  THAT is definately not the way to break a mental disorder to your teens!  At this stage the boys are 26, 24 and 21.  I hesitate to discuss my mothers probable dx with them.  They are already concerned about genetics and the possibility of passing challenges on.  I too have lived away from allof our family members for many years.  Separated partly by distance, partly by career and partly because we wanted to raise our sons with little interference.  We usually saw each of our parents about once a year.

Sitara,

Your post got me thinking about the interaction my kids had with my mom.  She would take them for 1 week a year.  She doesn't get out of bed until 11a.m. so I know that activities didn't start until after lunch.  Her husband comes home at 4.  The kids use to like going there, as they got older though, they said it was "boring" and they never did anything.  She was pretty good about planning an outing at least once while they were there but I don't think they did many other activities during the day.

She retells the story of my middle child crying for a whole week because he couldn't separate from me.  It is usually said very scornfully (this is the one she is challenged by), he was about 4 at the time.  The youngest clung to her leg for most of the week at about the same age, yet that story is remembered with great fondness.  Just interesting.

Arky,

I am glad you are moving forward and making a life for yourself.  Caller id is a wonderful gift.  I also have a list of excuses for getting off of the phone.  You can look back through my other posts for more details on our relationship.  I think you can just click on my name to view my other posts.  Hearing others stories helps us understand that we are not alone.  I hope you are finding many good ways to take care of yourself.  I found meditation and yoga to be very helpful.

[sandraD]

I also have a mother that when I was young and would get upset over the cruel things that she said to me would always tell me that I should quit being so sensitive and therefore my feelings were always invalidated by her.  I do not remember a time in my young life when she said she was sorry for verbal abuse, or physical abuse and when I grew up and left home, she tried to say the same things to me and I would avoid talking to her for several days and funny all that talk about being too sensitive never came up again.  When we are young we have to depend on our mothers and dads to take care of us and that is when they feel free to dump all their crazy on us.  I think the only reason that I turned out half normal is that I had a wonderful paternal grandmother that always gave me unconditional love and she always encouraged me and I had a maternal grandfather that was that way towards me as well and I dearly loved him.  He was the best grandpa anyone could have!  Thank goodness for grandparents like them that see there are problems and really try to help their grandkids!  I miss both of them so much and I would give anything to be able to go and sit and talk with them today.  They were a lifeline to me! 

[Nana15cool]

To everyone that has posted so far, thank you! Every story you told, every example you have given I had lived through also. I am 56 years old. I was 54 before I was told my mother could have BPD. I am still unravelling and learning everyday how having a mother like this has effected every aspect of my life. When I read posts that sound like me I want to cry for the shear joy of knowing someone else understands!

[Legacymaker]

Nana,

I am 50.  I too have only just discovered some answers!

[lucyhoneychurch]

Nana and Legacy - just turned 51 earlier this month. Got informed at age 40 about these abuses and the truth helped me override many things since that time.

Sisterhood amongst these horrific battles is a life saver.     

[lost and found]

I'm 51 also. I've worked with a therapist for a couple of years and she is the one that identified this for me. I've always known something was wrong and had people validate that, but she really was able to pinpoint what was happening and put a lot of memories that seemed kind of odd into perspective. So many things from my childhood make sense now.

Legacymaker, that must have been so difficult to go through with your dad. There is no right or wrong way to approach this with our kids, is there? Every family has different situations to deal with. We live in the states, just in different parts of the country. We see my family about once a year at this point too.

[delaney]

I am currently getting the silent treatment. I try to view it in the most positive light. I have a break from her constant whining, complaining, guilt tripping and victimhood. I feel no obligation to contact her because she isn't contracting me. She knows I'm angry with her for how she treated me last time we spoke, and this is enough for her to ignore me. I'm not allowed to be angry, it's judgemental. 

My oldest is 12 and she's a sweet forgiving child who wants to get along with everyone. I worry about how my mom will treat her as she gets older, especially reading stories like Legacy's. I foolishly used to think that my mom was only mean to her kids but she was rude to my daughter last summer during her visit over a game of cards. Yeah, my mother was losing so she was rude to a child. I still can't believe how immature that was and regret not defending my daughter more. Instead I just ended the game and my mother went over to my brother's house to bad mouth me. Later he lectured me that "she's hardly ever in town, it seems like we could get along for just a few days."   

Anyway, the only time she's a good mom or grandma is when someone is under the age of two. And even then... . I remember when I'd have them watch my kids when they were babies and it was always my younger siblings were watching them, feeding them, dressing them. My mother didn't seem to actually do anything with my kids. In hindsight it was wildly irresponsible for me to send my kids over there. I always had to go through the house and try to track down all their clothes and toys. My mother never knew where anything was. But I was so enmeshed at the time and my normal meter was so very broken.