Dont know how to stop a fight with my BPD...

[panchito]

Hi. Last Fiday a fight started between me and my wife BPD. Actually it all started by my fault. Something I’ve made (but a normal day thing) that anyone would be pissed off, but with a BPD it just gets her completely pissed off, over the marks pissed off.

Anyway, as soon has it all started I knew I was heading for an entire week fight!  Because, even if I recognize my mistake and apologize it seems it is never enough. I mean, actually she always says she just needs me to say I’m sorry. Nonetheless, because of her black and white thought normally she ends up still throwing a lot more things at my face. Normally I end up losing  my mind, myself, because she gets so out of proportion offending me and making me feel like hit, humiliating me, etc, etc. I must say at a certain point I finally crack and end up shouting at her and saying not so pleasant things (I think I suffer from Intermittent explosive disorder and I’m trying to address it. Nonetheless I’m not the most resistant person I know to verbal aggression, particularly if these are so unfair and disproportionate) although I can assure you that there is great difference on the things I say:

          - Normally I criticize her present behavior against me. Like “stop making me this”, “stop calling me this, because you also do a lot of $%&/ mistakes, as everybody”, “you have no fu&%$ right to call me this”, “who the f%$& do you think you are”... .

          - On the contrary her offenses are meant to show what a failure I am as a person, a husband, a son, friend, etc. Normally she uses any type of past confidence I’ve made her as a way of cracking my self esteem and entering my psychological defenses.

Well, the problem is that then the whole cycle begins.

1)   Normally, after a few dayas, when she sees me sufficiently beaten (emotionally exhausted) she normally  takes the initiative to ask me to give her a hug or something like this…(it is very difficult for me to do so because at this moment I really do not feel like it, however if I do not do it the whole fight starts again).

2)   After the hug we normally resume the normal day life like it never happened (It is hard for me to do so, but because I know she will not ask for forguiveness herself nor she will recognize she blown out of proportion, I prefer this than to be kept in the fighting vortex).

3)   When It finally seems everything is peaceful again she always ends up confronting me with the same type of questions: “Are you not going to ask me for forgiveness for those awful things you told me?” “How can you be so proud and twisted not to be humble enough to recognize you were so unfair to me and that you completely lost your mind this time and you treated me like hit”?

4)   I’m a person who believes in conflict resolution. So I normally try to explain her in a good way that I recognize I’ve said some nasty things but it is not fair that she is making it all like if it was me who did this all the way and that maybe she should also consider my feelings and ask me for forgiveness for somethings she also did or said.

I normally try to show that the guilt is on both of us and that we both should decide if not asking each other form forgiveness and leave like that, or in alternative we both should be recognizing the pain we have caused over each other (actually I feel this is noble from me, because the things she normally says to me are a lot more destructive and unacceptable than mine but, nonetheless, I try to consider our responsibility for the fight on even terms, to make it easier for conflict solving)

5)   Nonetheless she always ends up answering me that actually it was all my fault, that she’s perfectly sure “did nothing this time” to justify my reactions…And that she as absolutely no reason to recognize nothing to me. For her I was the one that started the whole thing because I lost my temper, so why would she have to ask me for anything but more than for me to ask her for forgiveness!

6)   At this time is where I insist that it is not fair for me that she expects me to assume all responsibility, besides it is even more unfair that she expects for me to recognize I was the one that mistreated her while I also feel very ,mistreated myself and she does not even want to recognize it (sort of an unconditional surrender).

Morover on the few times I ended up doing just that (asking for forgiveness and recognizing 100% responsibility), to try and stop the fight, she then punishes me with her. “I cannot forgive you so easy”, “You went too far this time”, “I don`t know how long it will time me to forget this, this time”, “How can Y ever trust you again”, “Give me time to again be able to look at you as I used to”! How come?

7)   Nonetheless, I do not recognize 100% fault and ask her for her forgiveness, she starts to offend me again, because I’m so damn proud I’m not even capable of recognizing I’ve ruined it all, and I’ve mistreated her in so many ways, and that for me It’s all about winning and nothing more matters to me. She always says that “this time” she is actually sure she did nothing wrong.

Even If I try to confront her with an factual example of any brutal thing she told me during the fight, she allaways end up saying: “Well, who wouldn’t explode ,after all that you made me go thru! (Yes! Its mindblowing! It’s insane!).

8)   So what normally happens is that I feel like in a absolutely no win situation here:

a)   If I do what she wants:

       

       - I’m validating her bad behavior and her verbal violence and disrespect (there were some times she even got physical, and of course, justifies it all the same way…).

       - I’ll feel violated and abused by this person and I end up feeling a lot of interior rage against her…

       - And in the end she will then use my “forced” recognition of fault to keep mistreating me a little more (she does not know how to meet me half way. It’s her way out and nothing in the middle, and then, when I going her way like she wanted, not happy with that, she ends up “running her car” over me!)

b)   I stick to what’s fair and to my values:

   

         - I do not give her more than what is right and fair and that is I deny myself to assume all responsibility, while politely reminding her I’m willing to accept half share of the fight responsibility and that although I recognize I’ve hurt her I would also need for her to know she also made me feel quite bad herself (which is actually quite an effort for me, as normally the truth is that the things she says to me are absolutely enormous compared to mines and take me a lot of time to cope with, besides she is the one that always starts the fights (I’m actually always trying to avoid fights, not creating them, as you can imagine).

         - As always she ends up more raged than before. Again, she starts splitting against me, and all the cycle starts again, meaning a never ending fight for a few more days.

I’m sorry for the extension of this post. I must say that I’m in the middle of one of these fights at the moment. I’ve even started to search for an apartment for me and I’m seriously considering divorce this time, because I cannot stand this fights much longer.

This current fight is lasting since last Friday and I’m so tired at this moment. I really don’t know anymore what to do. I’m exhausted and I just want her to stop, but not if it costs me to lose my self respect and having to assume all responsibility. Moreover after all the mistreatment she made me go thru!

Anyone has experience with this. Has anyone found the answer how to manage  to get out of this no win situation her in a way that is acceptable for us nons?

Many thanks.

Panchito

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[panchito]

H've tried hard to avoid "forbiden" words on my post. Notheless it seems that one or two got away.

For that I apologise to the forum!

Thanks

Panchito.

[wjc]

I know exactly what you are going through.  I also have a wife that has BPD.  She doesnt know she does or at least would never admit it.  I am in one of those week punishment cycles myself.  This time also my fault because I tried to do what any normal married person can do and that is show my wife how something feels for herself so she might then understand how it feels to me when she does it to me.  In this case it involves disciplining of my 8 year old son.  My wife ALWAYS gets in between my son and I when I try and correct him.  She assumes the spokespersons role and the attorney role for my son.  She ALWAYS tells me  that I am wrong in front of him, and allows him to feel that I went to far if I raise my voice.  The funny thing is she does far worse with him, sometimes to the point of raging on him, and if I even think about even saying something as simple as please try to calm down... . then the rage turns on to me and I will suffer for weeks... . have it even thrown in my face years later.  I know the pain, the frustration, the mental exhaustion you are going through.  Who do we turn to?  We cant tell anyone because it makes things worse, plus for me I never want to tell anyone else because I dont want them to think bad of her.  When she is fine she is wonderful, beautiful and the love of my life someone I can not live without.  The problem is that I only get that person may be two or three weeks out of each month and may be for three months straight.  Almost every holiday is ruined, every birthday, every event... . even today on valentines day im being punished.  Why because I exploded after she barrated me for hours over something blown way out of proportion. Sure I said something I regret and apologized for.  I said in anger that she made me so agry I just want to break your face.  Did I?  no of course not, I never ever laid a hand on her nor any woman or man for that matter.  It was just anger built up and steaming out.  My wife however frequently punches me wehn she is in her rage, in fact this time she punched my arm just above my wrist and made a brusie 4 inches in diameter, to make it worse when she saw it she then tells me how weak I am, ahow sensitive I am like my mother, because I brusie easiily.   I sat thinking to myself how many hours, how many days, how many moments have been waisted on these arguments.  Someday I am going to be facing my final moments and think to myself what a waste of time.

Today of course I bought her a card for valatines day... . because thats what you are supposed to do for the one you love.  It's always hard to find one that describes our life together, one that doesnt drip with things that I will never experience in my marriage.  Of course it is still sitting on th table because she says she doesnt want a card from me because Im such a horrible husband.  So buddy I feel your pain today.  This is the life ofsomeone who decided to stay married to the one he loves who only loves him back whne she can.

[Perez]

Panchito,

I feel for you, this is very similar to the experiences of myself and many on this forum.  The inability to apologize, to take responsibility for behavior, to meet your spouse half way, are all hallmarks of BPD traits.  From reading your post, it seems that you understand that although you may bear some responsibility for a specific episode starting, the reaction and the resulting drama are not your fault.

I was exactly where you are.  Some lessons learned from this forum and Walking on Eggshells are:  Do not JADE (Justify, Attach, Defend, Engage).

When it starts getting bad, walk away from the argument.  Take care of yourself and leave the conflict.

[joshbjoshb]

Friend

Coming down from a very big fight, which I did caused somehow, but def. wasn't responsible for the crazy rage that followed, I'd say that even if you didn't master all this validation stuff, you can still simply look at her and say "I refuse to answer you if this is the way you talk to me".

Simple.

Do it once. Twice. If needed, get up. But you must be consistent with this otherwise she will sense it and come raging all over again.

And for g-ds sake stop taking her rages to heart! You say you are emotionally beaten. This is horrible! Why are you taking it to your heart if you know she has mental issues.Would you be offended by a preschooler? I hope not!

You must start working on yourself, friend, to be above that. And yelling back doesn't help.

Say to yourself, and then to her:

I refuse being part of yelling at each other. If you wish to discuss things in a civilized way, I am game. If not, I am simply not responding to you.

Good luck!

[panchito]

Hi,

Many thanks to you all. Wjc I'm sorry that you are on the same boat that I am. And Peréz and joshbjoshb, many thanks for your great advice.

I could not get back to you sooner because my house is not too big and my Wife, by being so jealous and controlling, does not let me enough private space to answer the forum (I do not want to get caught).

Last Friday afternoon, by no reason whatsoever, my wife stopped splitting and cooled down, and eventually we manage to spent a nice weekend (well, as nice as It can get when you're walking in eggshells).

However the problem is that my wife actually is expecting to "have that talk with me" in which she is expecting me to "apologize for all the harm and mistreat I've submitted her the past week" (yes, as surreal has it might seem!). Until now, I've told her that I would be available to talk with her about it but I would be doing it has soon as we both recovered from the wounds of the past week. This way I've managed to get some time to come up with an idea of what I'm going to say to her... .

So... . I really would thank a piece of advice on this one!

- My wife wants me to recognize I'm the cause of everything and for me to apologize.

- I do not see that’s a fair trade, because actually, I held her rage burst responsible for the arguing to get so extensive in time (one week) and also in proportion. Besides her content attitude of not assuming no responsibility, just playing her victim role, and demanding for me to completely surrender to her accusations, made it very difficult to solve the conflict and end up the blood spilling!

So... . How can I make her think I'm validating her feelings and recognizing my share of responsability, without end up feeling abused and invalidated myself.

If I do not do this the right way, the most likelly thing to happen is that the all arguing will start again (driven from her incapacity to assume her part of responsibility and my reluctance to assume all responsibility and humiliate myself like she wants...

Any Ideas  *? ?Thanks a LOT!

[Perez]

Panchito,

As far as validation is concerned, think about validating the fact that she is hurting.  Be careful of going any further than that.  It will not do any good to "validate" that you were the cause of last's week problems.

As far as the apology is concerned, that is a difficult topic.  From what I have been reading some BPDs switch on their own and do not demand the apologies.  My wife is very different in that she requires an apology to keep the relationship going.  Of course these are one-way apologies.  Either I had conditioned her that way with my responses or she was always that way, in either case, the relationship comes to a dead stop without the apology.  I have started a boundary where I will not apologize beyond a specific action I undertook that was wrong.  No more generic apologies about not loving her enough, not taking enough interest in her life,  making my hobbies more important that her, etc.  Since I have started this boundary our relationship has gone to a complete standstill.  Few fights but no communication or intimacy.