Borderline Mates: Narcissistic vs. Codependent

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Okay... . so I'm looking for clarification on something I think I might have just figured out... . and subconsciously known all along. Maybe it's why I'm taking this "break up" so well.

A little necessary background: I was helping him out of the goodness of my heart because I was involved in an abusive relationship almost two years ago. I felt I needed to rescue him. As a future Psychologist, I acknowledge that I am codependent and will be seeking therapy very soon. Things quickly escalated between us when he idealized me. I was taken aback as it was a new friendship and he was getting over his ex, so I think that's why he thought he'd met "the one". I was acting like his narcissistic, abusive ex and resisting his efforts. He even begged me to "make him" see me. I refused.

Then, as we got to know one another more, I slipped into his world and fell for him. My defenses must have been wearing off. I actually started trying to invite him over because he said he wanted to come, but couldn't, only to be repeatedly blown off. HERMIT. I even brought him medicine when he was sick and left it on his patio so he wouldn't have to see me. He seemed taken aback by this and started avoiding me, though he thanked me and asked why I was so sweet... . or why was I f**king up his dreams of having found another girl like his ex?

Things came to a head and he said he wasn't ready to move on and didn't want to hurt me, but that I was a great person who needed to focus on school, work, and finding a good guy. I was taken aback. I said some ugly things and that I wished I'd never helped him. (He'd f**cked with my feelings. I had reason to be mad. He didn't see it that way... . ) The damage was done, I think, at that point. He saw me as self-serving, in his mind, and dumb for having fallen for his crap this long.

He really retreated, though I sent a sweet message apologizing, after saying he was sorry. He text me once a week over Christmas break and started ignoring me, so I played his game back. Big mistake in Borderline land. I so adamantly wanted to believe he could be saved... . if I only tried harder. Wrong.

Once back at our college in January, he continued to contact me, but wouldn't respond further. Now I know he was just checking to see if I was still hooked. I grew tired of his ___ and told him he could respond and quit playing games, or lose my f**king number. He perked up then. And, it all makes sense now. He came to me a week later, saying he wasn't sure before, but he now knew and was willing to try to get better. He said he was on his knees, begging for my help.

He said he was going to take baby steps and go for a walk with me. And, eventually dinner. Then, a few days later, I blow up at him for posting he wants to take a girl to dinner and yet, he's going to have to "try" to take me. We argue, he says it isn't serious, and he disappears.

The next week, he goes into full throttle out of nowhere to idealize me. He's ready to come over and snuggle in the snowy weather. He's saying he wants to be waking up to me soon. Blah, blah, blah. But, he ultimately doesn't come. We literally talked about him coming over for 30 minutes. He would make excuses and I'd get frustrated and tell him to go to sleep if he didn't want to come. He said goodnight.

I sensed him pulling away - codependent - and sent him a message saying I would be there until he was ready and yadda, yadda. No response. He started making excuses about his phone messing up and just stupid stuff. He still texted me every day about his depression and I made the mistake of asking him to dinner on a whim. BIG MISTAKE. He told me he was drunk, then said that he was sorry for being such a messed-up person, and he knew we'd be a great fit. But, he was broken and shattered and not getting fixed anytime soon.

I sent another sweet message, saying not to apologize. I was there. Wrong thing to do.   He ignores me for two days, then he texts me about being upset and I got hostile with him because I was having a bad day and he totally disregarded my feelings and was cold. He then, laid a whopper on me. He told me he didn't think we'd ever be more than really, really good friends, saying he hadn't been sure, but he was sorry and there was never a spark.

All the hurt I had endured over four months came spilling out. I told him that he goes after psycho women that abuse him to recreate the abuse he endured as a child and I couldn't help that, though I had tried to, and and I thanked him for f**king with my feelings when he knew I cared.

He said he knew talking to someone like me would be bad and that he was sorry I "got" feelings hurt, but he had said he wasn't ready. He said I got my revenge and to stop texting him. He eventually said I was selfish, wanting to only turn him, convert him and want him to be with me. (Turn him?)

Later, after my emotional, What the heck, I cared about you message, he said that was exactly why he didn't want this... . because that's not what he needs. He said to "enjoy my spread for deception and fairy tale lies"? And, he hoped I found a good guy who wasn't messed up and whose signs I read right.   He ended it by saying I got upset when I didn't get my way and I need to prepare for life and that this would be his last message. He said goodbye.

I finally get it. It's like his last message reveals everything. He said I was trying to turn, convert, and get him. But, it's almost like he was trying to turn me into an abusive partner he could be with by driving me batty and provoking me to act out at him to get the abuse he needs to feel secure.  The "reading the signs" part was just a jab at my inability to lash out at him when he wanted me to by being aggressive and "making" him as his ex did.

Borderlines, or the kind he is that is addicted to narcissists, seriously feed off of the abuse because it makes them act to keep their partner. When you're loving and understanding with them, it's like it makes them realize that it's their responsibility and problem. They'd rather have someone abuse them instead of actually facing it and acknowledging their intimacy/self worth issues.

That's why he was hopeful it might actually work when I started getting hostile toward him. He thought "Yay, she's treating me bad... . it reminds me of my ex... . maybe there's hope." Then, when I didn't come through because it was momentary frustration at his behavior, he got frustrated with me and ultimately decided we would only be friends.

It's such a mind-f**k, but there's some logic to their chaos. It's just a logic beyond what we can see. It's disordered.

I think it's why he warned me in the beginning. He knew that he would repeatedly try to make me get upset by ignoring me, keeping me on the hook, and saying he wanted to come over, but couldn't, in hopes of "provoking my narcissistic side" that would demand his worshipping and good behavior. Instead, I was loving and accepting = no motivation to deter from his hellacious existence and a reminder that I wasn't going to enforce his "bad views" of himself, but unknowingly reminded him of his problem.

That's why he was so crazy about the narcissist. She made herself out to be the Goddess of all women and withheld intimacy, which makes him uncomfortable anyway, while relaying how lucky his "bad self" was to have her. This just kickstarts a Borderline's need for validation and creates a kind of competition to win her validation. If she's not giving it, then she must be amazing and not falling into his trap of an existence.

It's mind-blowing.

I guess my question is... . why do some Borderlines stay with codependents and others only with narcissists? Some like more of a challenge? He's literally obsessed with this woman. He feels like he'll never get over her. So, in essence, the only woman he'll be with again is someone that can put her to shame, abuse-wise? He sees her as some God. Maybe because he gets validation so easy from everyone else and not so much from her?

You can really get lost thinking about this. It just makes me question why he even talked to me in the first place... . but I know it was because I was so easy. I'm a codependent. I was an easy target. I was loving and gullible.

So, narcissists force the Borderline to back-burner their needs in exchange for the narcissists' and that turns them on/hooks them?

It really makes me happy I'm out of that. Part of me wants to shake him and be like "You are going to live a sad life! Wake up!"

One question I'd like to end with is this... . what makes the difference between a narcissist and a codependent that's frustrated? Why do they worship the other and are so quick to paint the loving codependent black? They know that one isn't bluffing while the other is?

Something to ponder... .

[misssouthernbelle]

Okay... . so I'm looking for clarification on something I think I might have just figured out... . and subconsciously known all along. Maybe it's why I'm taking this "break up" so well.

A little necessary background: I was helping him out of the goodness of my heart because I was involved in an abusive relationship almost two years ago. I felt I needed to rescue him. As a future Psychologist, I acknowledge that I am codependent and will be seeking therapy very soon. Things quickly escalated between us when he idealized me. I was taken aback as it was a new friendship and he was getting over his ex, so I think that's why he thought he'd met "the one". I was acting like his narcissistic, abusive ex and resisting his efforts. He even begged me to "make him" see me. I refused.

Then, as we got to know one another more, I slipped into his world and fell for him. My defenses must have been wearing off. I actually started trying to invite him over because he said he wanted to come, but couldn't, only to be repeatedly blown off. HERMIT. I even brought him medicine when he was sick and left it on his patio so he wouldn't have to see me. He seemed taken aback by this and started avoiding me, though he thanked me and asked why I was so sweet... . or why was I f**king up his dreams of having found another girl like his ex?

Things came to a head and he said he wasn't ready to move on and didn't want to hurt me, but that I was a great person who needed to focus on school, work, and finding a good guy. I was taken aback. I said some ugly things and that I wished I'd never helped him. (He'd f**cked with my feelings. I had reason to be mad. He didn't see it that way... . ) The damage was done, I think, at that point. He saw me as self-serving, in his mind, and dumb for having fallen for his crap this long.

He really retreated, though I sent a sweet message apologizing, after saying he was sorry. He text me once a week over Christmas break and started ignoring me, so I played his game back. Big mistake in Borderline land. I so adamantly wanted to believe he could be saved... . if I only tried harder. Wrong.

Once back at our college in January, he continued to contact me, but wouldn't respond further. Now I know he was just checking to see if I was still hooked. I grew tired of his ___ and told him he could respond and quit playing games, or lose my f**king number. He perked up then. And, it all makes sense now. He came to me a week later, saying he wasn't sure before, but he now knew and was willing to try to get better. He said he was on his knees, begging for my help.

He said he was going to take baby steps and go for a walk with me. And, eventually dinner. Then, a few days later, I blow up at him for posting he wants to take a girl to dinner and yet, he's going to have to "try" to take me. We argue, he says it isn't serious, and he disappears.

The next week, he goes into full throttle out of nowhere to idealize me. He's ready to come over and snuggle in the snowy weather. He's saying he wants to be waking up to me soon. Blah, blah, blah. But, he ultimately doesn't come. We literally talked about him coming over for 30 minutes. He would make excuses and I'd get frustrated and tell him to go to sleep if he didn't want to come. He said goodnight.

I sensed him pulling away - codependent - and sent him a message saying I would be there until he was ready and yadda, yadda. No response. He started making excuses about his phone messing up and just stupid stuff. He still texted me every day about his depression and I made the mistake of asking him to dinner on a whim. BIG MISTAKE. He told me he was drunk, then said that he was sorry for being such a messed-up person, and he knew we'd be a great fit. But, he was broken and shattered and not getting fixed anytime soon.

I sent another sweet message, saying not to apologize. I was there. Wrong thing to do.   He ignores me for two days, then he texts me about being upset and I got hostile with him because I was having a bad day and he totally disregarded my feelings and was cold. He then, laid a whopper on me. He told me he didn't think we'd ever be more than really, really good friends, saying he hadn't been sure, but he was sorry and there was never a spark.

All the hurt I had endured over four months came spilling out. I told him that he goes after psycho women that abuse him to recreate the abuse he endured as a child and I couldn't help that, though I had tried to, and and I thanked him for f**king with my feelings when he knew I cared.

He said he knew talking to someone like me would be bad and that he was sorry I "got" feelings hurt, but he had said he wasn't ready. He said I got my revenge and to stop texting him. He eventually said I was selfish, wanting to only turn him, convert him and want him to be with me. (Turn him?)

Later, after my emotional, What the heck, I cared about you message, he said that was exactly why he didn't want this... . because that's not what he needs. He said to "enjoy my spread for deception and fairy tale lies"? And, he hoped I found a good guy who wasn't messed up and whose signs I read right.   He ended it by saying I got upset when I didn't get my way and I need to prepare for life and that this would be his last message. He said goodbye.

I finally get it. It's like his last message reveals everything. He said I was trying to turn, convert, and get him. But, it's almost like he was trying to turn me into an abusive partner he could be with by driving me batty and provoking me to act out at him to get the abuse he needs to feel secure.  The "reading the signs" part was just a jab at my inability to lash out at him when he wanted me to by being aggressive and "making" him as his ex did.

Borderlines, or the kind he is that is addicted to narcissists, seriously feed off of the abuse because it makes them act to keep their partner. When you're loving and understanding with them, it's like it makes them realize that it's their responsibility and problem. They'd rather have someone abuse them instead of actually facing it and acknowledging their intimacy/self worth issues.

That's why he was hopeful it might actually work when I started getting hostile toward him. He thought "Yay, she's treating me bad... . it reminds me of my ex... . maybe there's hope." Then, when I didn't come through because it was momentary frustration at his behavior, he got frustrated with me and ultimately decided we would only be friends.

It's such a mind-f**k, but there's some logic to their chaos. It's just a logic beyond what we can see. It's disordered.

I think it's why he warned me in the beginning. He knew that he would repeatedly try to make me get upset by ignoring me, keeping me on the hook, and saying he wanted to come over, but couldn't, in hopes of "provoking my narcissistic side" that would demand his worshipping and good behavior. Instead, I was loving and accepting = no motivation to deter from his hellacious existence and a reminder that I wasn't going to enforce his "bad views" of himself, but unknowingly reminded him of his problem.

That's why he was so crazy about the narcissist. She made herself out to be the Goddess of all women and withheld intimacy, which makes him uncomfortable anyway, while relaying how lucky his "bad self" was to have her. This just kickstarts a Borderline's need for validation and creates a kind of competition to win her validation. If she's not giving it, then she must be amazing and not falling into his trap of an existence.

It's mind-blowing.

I guess my question is... . why do some Borderlines stay with codependents and others only with narcissists? Some like more of a challenge? He's literally obsessed with this woman. He feels like he'll never get over her. So, in essence, the only woman he'll be with again is someone that can put her to shame, abuse-wise? He sees her as some God. Maybe because he gets validation so easy from everyone else and not so much from her?

You can really get lost thinking about this. It just makes me question why he even talked to me in the first place... . but I know it was because I was so easy. I'm a codependent. I was an easy target. I was loving and gullible.

So, narcissists force the Borderline to back-burner their needs in exchange for the narcissists' and that turns them on/hooks them?

It really makes me happy I'm out of that. Part of me wants to shake him and be like "You are going to live a sad life! Wake up!"

One question I'd like to end with is this... . what makes the difference between a narcissist and a codependent that's frustrated? Why do they worship the other and are so quick to paint the loving codependent black? They know that one isn't bluffing while the other is?

Something to ponder... .

[misssouthernbelle]

You know what I think it is... . Narcissists are the only people heartless enough - no offense - to mind-f**k Borderlines into thinking they're not important. This intoxicates the self-absorbed Borderline by stealing them from their madness and making THEM enmesh with someone that presents hisself/herself as superior, making the Borderline feel good, as they think they're bad self is lucky to be in this equally-disordered person's proximity!

What a mind-f**k. 

The BPD was quoted desperately asking women who would "steal him from the edge" after he cut me - his loving lifeline - out of his life. I think I may be onto something.

Loving people can only quell them so much. Mix them with a Narcissist and they think they've found happiness because it's no longer about them.

Yet, he accused me of being selfish? When that's exactly what he ACTUALLY wants? Lol. 

[Turkish]

I  was the only CD  mine was with.  She left me for what appears to be a much younger narc.  She was in a r/s  with one before me who cheated on her and left her.  it devastated her,  and like you said. She did whatever she could to win him beck,  even the friends with benefits thing until he left her forgood. I  suspect her new one will blow up in her face at some point and she'll be similarly devastated. I  think narcs  provide that easy validation of a BPD's  worth.  it also  triggers the CD  tendencies of some BPDs,  as is the case with mine.  Which is the other side of obtaining self worth.  

Edit: when I thought it was going to work out, she told me all about him... . as if she were seeking my approval (sick). Said he was in foster care. I said that FC and adoptive kids are rife with PDs (being adopted, I am qualified to make this statement), and that she should be careful as he was probably not what he seemed, may have an attachment disorder. I left it at that.

When we got home, she was on the computer... . she came in my room and told me that she thought she had some kind of attachment disorder. I didn't respond.

I checked the browser history later and she was looking up "Foster care disorders". So in a really weird bit of mirroring, she was convincing herself that she had an AD (true) in order to bond and attach to him! This is a very mentally ill person... . so high functioning otherwise, but I know what lurks beneath. I was, and may be, the closest thing to an adult she was and ever will be with. No wonder we had so much trouble, as I fought her emotional childlike bursts almost from the beginning. We both idealized having a family, though, which is why we lasted so long, so that was immaturity on both of our parts.

[misssouthernbelle]

I  was the only CD  mine was with.  She left me for what appears to be a much younger narc.  She was in a r/s  with one before me who cheated on her and left her.  it devastated her,  and like you said. She did whatever she could to win him beck,  even the friends with benefits thing until he left her forgood. I  suspect her new one will blow up in her face arty some point and she'll be similarly devastated. I  think narcs  provide that easy validation of a BPD's  worth.  it also  triggers the CD  tendencies of some BPDs,  as is the case with mine.  Which is the other side of obtaining self worth.  

Holy tolitto. You're right. It is easier because they don't have to constantly ask for it. Just being in that person's presence is intoxicating.

I think that's what happened in my situation. He's more comfortable as a CD. I would get cold from everything he put me through and he'd become codependent. I would then be loving as I always am and it would backfire and reverse the whole thing.

You know what... . I think he was trying to be codependent, but he couldn't because I'm not a narcissist and there was no abusive "spark". He's still messed up from her so bad that - like he told me - he needs only another narcissist to meet his needs. Being loving only made him uncomfortable, though he tried. He actually told me that it scared him too much, though it was the biggest comfort in the world sometimes.

I just hate that he cut me out suddenly because I was hurt. I know he's sick, but I know it's a serious mental illness. In the end, I was painted black.

[misssouthernbelle]

Edit: when I thought it was going to work out, she told me all about him... . as if she were seeking my approval (sick). Said he was in foster care. I said that FC and adoptive kids are rife with PDs (being adopted, I am qualified to make this statement), and that she should be careful as he was probably not what he seemed, may have an attachment disorder. I left it at that.

When we got home, she was on the computer... . she came in my room and told me that she thought she had some kind of attachment disorder. I didn't respond.

I checked the browser history later and she was looking up "Foster care disorders". So in a really weird bit of mirroring, she was convincing herself that she had an AD (true) in order to bond and attach to him! This is a very mentally ill person... . so high functioning otherwise, but I know what lurks beneath. I was, and may be, the closest thing to an adult she was and ever will be with. No wonder we had so much trouble, as I fought her emotional childlike bursts almost from the beginning. We both idealized having a family, though, which is why we lasted so long, so that was immaturity on both of our parts.

Wow! I'm at a loss... . that's crazy. But, I mean, are we supposed to expect less? Yes, though codependent, a lot of Psychologists would argue that we don't have a problem at all. Actually, they'd say it was too much of a good thing, that is unfortunately tied in with negative views of the self.

He never had childlike outbursts... . he preferred the silent treatment, projection, and gas lighting. Those are hard to see, even when you're not enmeshed.

What you said really makes me question though... . I wonder if he lied all along about her abuse because he knew I came from an abusive relationship?

He got to where he would be triggered mentioning her... . and talking about what she did to him... . maybe because it was because it was really the abuse he inflicted on her, but had projected onto her? Or, maybe it reminded him of how he had lied to me in the beginning and how disordered he was to have to do that to "bond/mirror" me?

Sheesh.   

[seeking balance]

codependent or narcissist both depend on external validation to feel "worthy."

pwBPD mirror to give stability to an unstable sense of self.

narcissists and borderlines play into each other as elegantly as codependents and borderlines.

It is a win/win in the house of dysfunction no matter the combination.

[Waifed]

I thought I read somewhere that a borderline eventually destroys a narcissist.  Something to the effect that the narcissist tries to control the borderline and becomes shamed and crazy because they cant make the borderline worship them.  Am I off here?

[musicfan42]

Please refrain from typing in red font misssouthernbelle. It makes it very hard to read the text.

That's an interesting perspective waifed. I'd like to hear more about that.

[seeking balance]

I thought I read somewhere that a borderline eventually destroys a narcissist.  Something to the effect that the narcissist tries to control the borderline and becomes shamed and crazy because they cant make the borderline worship them.  Am I off here?

destroys might be a bit harsh - but I think I get what you are asking in terms of the relationship eventually failing.

The borderline eventually may mirror a part of the narc. that is less than charming, thus the dynamic is now flawed.  Once flawed, both try harder to get "perfect" balance back, but that is not sustainable and more narcisstic injuries occur, etc.   Member 2010 has an excellent description on this somewhere.

[whatathing]

I thought I read somewhere that a borderline eventually destroys a narcissist.  Something to the effect that the narcissist tries to control the borderline and becomes shamed and crazy because they cant make the borderline worship them.  Am I off here?

I read somewhere that the rare opportunities that a narcissist has to reach beyond his strong defense system and develop some awareness of the emptiness, neediness, low self esteem that feeds all his r/s patterns, is to be broken down the way you said. That´s the only time when he realizes how damaged he is, and how little empathy he has, and how his self idealized image was false. But even then, he can easily fall back into denial and build the false image again. It´s a short window of opportunity, when he loses his own game and is wounded and surprised by it, and if he doesn´t grab that opportunity questioning himself, he goes back into the same pattern again. I think that I, not being NPD but having some traits, felt the same with my uBPDexgf.