Where to Draw the Line?

[Parents! Get help here!]

Any way I say this is going to most likely make me seem like I am a biotch because nobody knows the whole story and it would be too long to type. The cliffs note version is (although I think I've conveyed some) my ex fought me tooth and nail when I wanted to get our DD help even dating back from when she was a toddler (almost kicked out of daycares, labels distruptive, etc), I knew something just was not right. I left him when DD was just shy of 9 and vowed to finally do just that – get her some help.  We first shared 50/50 custody of both kids (one week on, one week off) up until about two years ago when DD was 12 and the ex could not handle her anymore and gave me full legal and physical custody with every other weekend visits to him claiming she’d have a better life with me. This after she had friends in the house who stole $500 of fantasy football money my ex was hiding under a mattress in his bedroom.  I had no problem with this because he and I have a different way of parenting our kids. He is more lax than I am. Especially with our DS. After living with my DD and being exposed to everything I’ve been exposed to, I make it a point to try and do things right by my DS so as not to repeat history if at all possible. Because things were getting really bad even every other weekend when DD would visit him, he stopped allowing her to even come over to stay anymore. This has been since September of 2012.

Anyway, this is where I might come off in a bad light. DD hasn’t been calling me since she has been at the RTC, but is calling him. And he has reached out to the RTC to tell them to include him on everything going on related to DD. Aside from being a little gun shy over the fact that he has tried to sabotage my efforts in the past to get DD help, I feel that since he IS her father, I guess its ok. However, I do want to reach out to DD’s therapist and case manager to just kind of clue them in him but I don’t know how to approach it without coming across as the reason why DD has trouble. Because YOU KNOW they look for ANYTHING to blame the parents. I’m really not like that at all. I’m just worried he’s going to impede the process somehow someway. He wanted nothing to do with her. Fought me on getting her help for years. Constantly criticizes how I do things. Tries to turn DD against my DH, etc.

Should I just back off or should I say something to the RTC?  I feel sad DD isn’t calling me. It does hurt a bit. And I have to think there is a reason she is calling him. And I’m sure he once again is making promises that she can come back there to live like he has before. This is actually the second time he’s given me full custody and this last time I said there will be no going back. He messes with her head.

Oh and he called me last night to tell me that DD said she got into a fight yesterday, but that it wasn’t her fault. He said the therapist confirmed this. Some girl there has major anger issues and while my DD and another girl were allegedly playing cards, this girl kept taunting them by throwing ice and other things at them and even threw something heavy that missed DD’s head and hit and broke a window. The girl had to be restrained by 3 men and she punched on in the face. I got no call about this. Should I make a fuss about that? Apparently DD is allowed three calls a week in fact. After therapy which is twice a week and a general one. She’s called my ex twice already this week… )o:   It just bothers me. She warned me she’d be calling him and not me since “I put her in there”.

[raytamtay3]

Any way I say this is going to most likely make me seem like I am a biotch because nobody knows the whole story and it would be too long to type. The cliffs note version is (although I think I've conveyed some) my ex fought me tooth and nail when I wanted to get our DD help even dating back from when she was a toddler (almost kicked out of daycares, labels distruptive, etc), I knew something just was not right. I left him when DD was just shy of 9 and vowed to finally do just that – get her some help.  We first shared 50/50 custody of both kids (one week on, one week off) up until about two years ago when DD was 12 and the ex could not handle her anymore and gave me full legal and physical custody with every other weekend visits to him claiming she’d have a better life with me. This after she had friends in the house who stole $500 of fantasy football money my ex was hiding under a mattress in his bedroom.  I had no problem with this because he and I have a different way of parenting our kids. He is more lax than I am. Especially with our DS. After living with my DD and being exposed to everything I’ve been exposed to, I make it a point to try and do things right by my DS so as not to repeat history if at all possible. Because things were getting really bad even every other weekend when DD would visit him, he stopped allowing her to even come over to stay anymore. This has been since September of 2012.

Anyway, this is where I might come off in a bad light. DD hasn’t been calling me since she has been at the RTC, but is calling him. And he has reached out to the RTC to tell them to include him on everything going on related to DD. Aside from being a little gun shy over the fact that he has tried to sabotage my efforts in the past to get DD help, I feel that since he IS her father, I guess its ok. However, I do want to reach out to DD’s therapist and case manager to just kind of clue them in him but I don’t know how to approach it without coming across as the reason why DD has trouble. Because YOU KNOW they look for ANYTHING to blame the parents. I’m really not like that at all. I’m just worried he’s going to impede the process somehow someway. He wanted nothing to do with her. Fought me on getting her help for years. Constantly criticizes how I do things. Tries to turn DD against my DH, etc.

Should I just back off or should I say something to the RTC?  I feel sad DD isn’t calling me. It does hurt a bit. And I have to think there is a reason she is calling him. And I’m sure he once again is making promises that she can come back there to live like he has before. This is actually the second time he’s given me full custody and this last time I said there will be no going back. He messes with her head.

Oh and he called me last night to tell me that DD said she got into a fight yesterday, but that it wasn’t her fault. He said the therapist confirmed this. Some girl there has major anger issues and while my DD and another girl were allegedly playing cards, this girl kept taunting them by throwing ice and other things at them and even threw something heavy that missed DD’s head and hit and broke a window. The girl had to be restrained by 3 men and she punched on in the face. I got no call about this. Should I make a fuss about that? Apparently DD is allowed three calls a week in fact. After therapy which is twice a week and a general one. She’s called my ex twice already this week… )o:   It just bothers me. She warned me she’d be calling him and not me since “I put her in there”.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Verbena]

I wouldn't trust either your ex-husband's or your daughter's version of the fight that occurred.  The people who are running the RTC can tell you what did or didn't happen. 

And yes, I would fill them in on the background of your ex-husband where it pertains to your daughter's problems by just giving them the basic facts.  I'm sure they are used to their patients playing one parent against each other, which is what your DD is doing, especially when the parents are divorced. 

Your DD is punishing you for putting her in a RTC (even though she put herself there) and manipulating her father. 

[raytamtay3]

I know she is (manipulating). It's just so frusterating. DH is even fueming that NOW he decides to be a part of her life and he's worried that he'll screw things up as well.  This is my thing. This is what I've been trying to accomplish for so long. I am consumed with worry he's going to mess things up and she isn't going to get the proper help because he's in the background feeding her crap as usual. Grr!

[raytamtay3]

They want to set up our family therapy. I need opinions if it should be me, my ex and my DH or just me and my DH attending considering she lives with us and that's where the current conflict is. But they are including the ex in the emails! So now he knows about it.

[Verbena]

I would say family therapy should include all of you, but that could just add more stress.  I am guessing your ex will portray himself in a completely different way to the therapists which will only aggravate you more.  So I would go with just your DH. 

Even if you don't give the RTC people the information about custody/ your ex turning over DD to you because he can't handle her/ his efforts to block you from getting her help all these years, they are not stupid.  They will figure him out sooner or later. 

You really can't control anything your ex does.  He may very well be feeding your daughter's manipulation, and he is trying to manipulate you as well.  Again, I would take anything he says is going on at the RTC with a grain of salt and limit your contact/discussions with him regarding your daughter's treatment--at least for now. 

I feel for you having to deal with your DD's father.  This sudden interest in her welfare may soon pass anyway if he realizes he might have to actually parent her. 

[Being Mindful]

Since you have physical and legal custody what power do you have with him having contact with the RTC and therapists? I wouldn't advise you to keep him from her, or her from him, but can you limit that he has information directly from the RTC. If so, does that help the situation or make it worse? Also, I wouldn't tell the RTC that her problems are because of him. State the facts only about the family dynamics.

And finally, I hope this isn't too harsh but the reality is that all of us have had an adverse and positive affect on why our kids are here. We all have to take responsibility for what we could have done different, and then change ourselves to help our kids.

[theplotthickens]

You are so right in that they look for any excuse to blame the parent.  It might help to let the staff know that your ex has sabotaged treatment efforts in the past and that you and he have a high conflict relationship. Emphasize that you want your daughter to get the help she needs, and that you are hopeful that everyone is on the same page at this point. Your concerns sound valid.

It is your right to set a boundary that your personal struggles and issues be kept private from your ex.  That desire is perfectly understandable!  Exes are known for taking personal information, twisting it, and using it to their advantage.  I wouldn't want my ex knowing anything personal about me -  he would use it to create drama and to play the blame game. 

My ex and my 17 yo are cut from the same cloth; they are both high conflict, take no responsibility for anything, and are explosive and manipulative.  He will go years without calling or seeing her, but shows no remorse at all - in fact, he will start criticizing my parenting right away and act as if he is the perfect parent. My ex told  my dd that all mental health professionals are "quacks" and that I am just trying to get her hooked on 'drugs.'  The insults are really so laughable and sad at the same time.  The exes are SURELY challenging to deal with!  I hope you can insulate yourself against your ex to some degree, as he does not sound healthy.

[MammaMia]

Raytam

Geeezz... . just when you thought things could not get any more complicated! 

I doubt your ex is in this for the long haul.  Your dd is manipulating him and then using him to try to manipulate you.  I am also glad dh has decided to support you in this.  You need him.

I would agree to share information about your ex with the staff.  A heads up will save time and effort for everyone and focus directly on the problem. 

Another layer of craziness.  I am sorry.  Hang in there.  You are doing the right thing for your dd.

[raytamtay3]

Thanks so much for all of your replies. I was/am really stressing about this. I feel like I've put so much blood, sweat and tears into this process only to have him once again try and make things worse.

He text'd me how the RTC needs to accomodate him and his schedule! I said no, they need to accomodate us and our schedule because she lives with us. He said how he's been in talks with the CM.

He does not care about DD. He only wishes to make my life worse. I know him. He is still mad I left him and hates the fact I am remarried. He tries everything and anything to sabatoge my marriage by putting thoughts in my DD's head. He was verbally abusive to her. Would cause a scene when she was with her friends. Called her every name in the book when we shared 50/50 custody and pretty much gave up on her, yet she flocks to him. I have always tried to foster a relationship between the two but I question why does she feel that she deserves that from him?  

He said this is a family thing and doesn't want DH involved!

I hope you are right that they will see through him because he is good. Hell my family had no idea how he treated me because I never said anything. They thought he was such a great guy.  

It's just hard guys. I want my DD to get the help she needs. Not have someone who should be supporting the process impeding it. I feel defeated again.

[raytamtay3]

I sent this email to the case manager. I really tried not to sound harsh.

CM,

I tried to leave you a message, but your voice mail is full.  I wanted to give you a little background. DD's father gave me primary and legal custody back in September, 2011 because he could not handle her. Up until that point we shared 50/50 custody. One week on, one week off. He was suppose to have her every other weekend and has not even done that. He has tried to impede my attempts to get her help for years. I wanted him to have minimal involvement in this process as for the past few months, he and her stepfather have butted heads and her father makes it a point to feed that fire every chance he gets. One of our goals is to restore peace in our home. I make it a point to never say anything negative about Ex in front of my kids, so please make sure that DD does not know I reached out to you on this matter.  I'm not sure how we could even filter his involvement now that he's been included in everything via email and communications with you.  I do want to foster a relationship between DD and her father because it is critical to do so, but not at the expense of making things worse for us at home.

[pessim-optimist]

I think your e-mail to the CM was a good start... .

I am not positive, but doesn't your full legal custody allow you to make decisions about your DD w/out the input of your ex? If that's so, I would go so far as to request the RTC NOT share any e-mails w/your ex, and only give him information that they are absolutely obligated to share by law and only if/when he requests it.

If I were in your position, I would try to set up a meeting with them to calmly explain the situation in addition to the e-mail:

"I want us all to be informed and on the same page, so we can be effective in getting help for DD

1. Ex has no legal or physical custody. He had every other weekend visitations, but voluntarily stopped seeing her in September 2012, because he could not control her and did not want to be around her.

2. In the past, he sabotaged my efforts in getting her help, DD knows this and is likely to try to turn to him for support and get out of the necessity of the treatment in RTC, and to play one off the other - please be aware of this dynamic. (I already have signs of this - she stopped calling me because "I put her here" and is going for support to dad (who historically was against getting help for her, so she may have fantasies of him being able to rescue her from RTC).

3. I want to foster ex's r/s w/DD, AND at the same time want to prevent his interference with effective treatment for her.

How can we accomplish that?"

I'd ask questions and let them tell me what they are obligated to do by law, and if it is possible, I would completely exclude him from the process with the exception to his visits/calls to DD. (how would they treat - let's say an uncle of hers? - What kind of access would a relative with NO LEGAL custody have?)

And I'd take it from there... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Ray

Your DD is trying to split you and your ex. The RTC will see right through this move on her part. She is very good at getting what she wants and she wants out. It is good you told them about what was going on. Focus on your dd. Leave your conflict behind you with your ex. See what she is doing. Don't react to that by getting into a power struggle with your ex.

[pessim-optimist]

 

Ray

Your DD is trying to split you and your ex. The RTC will see right through this move on her part. She is very good at getting what she wants and she wants out. It is good you told them about what was going on. Focus on your dd. Leave your conflict behind you with your ex. See what she is doing. Don't react to that by getting into a power struggle with your ex.

Just posting to clarify -  I hope my previous post did not imply a power-struggle with the ex. I'd leave him be as well.

My intention was for you to be able to take the ex out of the equation regarding the RTC (to clarify with the staff).