Is this inappropriate? uBPD mom undressed in front of grandchildren...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Let me preface this by saying I know, by my own standards, that I would NOT be ok with this. That's just me. However, I have no standard definition of normal because of growing up with a uBPD mother, so I really don't know if I'm wrong in feeling that this is wrong. I'd like to know everyone's opinions.

Around 2 months ago, my 4 year old and 1.5 year old nieces stayed at my parent's house to be babysat. The 4 year old went down for a nap in one room and the 1.5 year old went down for a nap in another room. The 1.5 year old was having a hard time falling asleep because it was her first time napping with her mom away.

My uBPD mom went in to comfort the 1.5 year old and help her to sleep as she was very upset and worried, crying etc. They had her on a twin bed with a step down "seating" bench that goes around it. The room was darkened quite well but you could still see pretty well as your eyes adjusted to the dim lighting. Around 20 minutes after the 1.5 year old has been put down for her nap, I poked my head in to see if she had fallen completely asleep and make sure she was alright, not knowing if my uBPD mom was still in there or not. I found my uBPD mom sitting on the floor in her bra and underwear, singing to my 1.5 year old niece while she tried to sleep.

Maybe it was hot in there (but it didn't seem that hot to me). I didn't say a word about this, but it made me VERY upset. I feel it's extremely inappropriate for grandma to be sitting in her underwear in front of the children, ever. What makes it worse is that she's quite overweight so it's not like her underwear covers more skin or there's nothing to show. It's all just a little too close close close family imo... . odd. Later, when the kids got up, my uBPD mom was wearing just a tshirt that barely covered her butt and some underwear, in front of the 4 year old granddaughter.

My uBPD mom has a problem with wearing clothes. She is always naked in front of me and sees nothing wrong with it. If I object, she tells me I'm a prude and discreetly probes WHY is it a problem as though there's something wrong with me.

I feel this type of exposure in front of the grandchildren isn't ok. If it were my kids, I would be SO ANGRY. That's my opinion... .

How do you all feel about this? Is it ok? Not ok? Totally weird that she did this?

[supergirl2]

Let me preface this by saying I know, by my own standards, that I would NOT be ok with this. That's just me. However, I have no standard definition of normal because of growing up with a uBPD mother, so I really don't know if I'm wrong in feeling that this is wrong. I'd like to know everyone's opinions.

Around 2 months ago, my 4 year old and 1.5 year old nieces stayed at my parent's house to be babysat. The 4 year old went down for a nap in one room and the 1.5 year old went down for a nap in another room. The 1.5 year old was having a hard time falling asleep because it was her first time napping with her mom away.

My uBPD mom went in to comfort the 1.5 year old and help her to sleep as she was very upset and worried, crying etc. They had her on a twin bed with a step down "seating" bench that goes around it. The room was darkened quite well but you could still see pretty well as your eyes adjusted to the dim lighting. Around 20 minutes after the 1.5 year old has been put down for her nap, I poked my head in to see if she had fallen completely asleep and make sure she was alright, not knowing if my uBPD mom was still in there or not. I found my uBPD mom sitting on the floor in her bra and underwear, singing to my 1.5 year old niece while she tried to sleep.

Maybe it was hot in there (but it didn't seem that hot to me). I didn't say a word about this, but it made me VERY upset. I feel it's extremely inappropriate for grandma to be sitting in her underwear in front of the children, ever. What makes it worse is that she's quite overweight so it's not like her underwear covers more skin or there's nothing to show. It's all just a little too close close close family imo... . odd. Later, when the kids got up, my uBPD mom was wearing just a tshirt that barely covered her butt and some underwear, in front of the 4 year old granddaughter.

My uBPD mom has a problem with wearing clothes. She is always naked in front of me and sees nothing wrong with it. If I object, she tells me I'm a prude and discreetly probes WHY is it a problem as though there's something wrong with me.

I feel this type of exposure in front of the grandchildren isn't ok. If it were my kids, I would be SO ANGRY. That's my opinion... .

How do you all feel about this? Is it ok? Not ok? Totally weird that she did this?

[Cassy]

Me and my roommates walked around in t-shirts and panties all the time. I'm more of a cardigan/parka/long johns girl these days, but I see no point in teaching young girls to be ashamed of their bodies. They'll see more at the beach, music videos and locker rooms. Entire cultures have thrived wearing less.

I'm going to say that if it's her house and she wants to be a nudist, she has that right.

I'm very big on people being allowed to do any legal activity they want in the homes they own. I'm almost afraid to add that if it was a teenage boy who was visiting it would be a different story, but I'm pretty sure you're next thread would then be about your naked mother and a teenage boy.

[G.J.]

I don't have a lot of experience with raising kids, so I cannot give an opinion from a clinical or really educated viewpoint... .

But I will say this:  Prior to getting a lot of therapy, having grown up in a BPD/NPD nuthouse -- as an adult, I had absolutely ZERO litmus test for what was normal and what was abnormal behavior.  In fact, if I thought something was abnormal, I had to check and verify with about 50 other people that I considered to be normal, to get their opinions.  And even THEN I still wasn't convinced I was seeing things correctly.

In retrospect, what I've learned, is that while I may not have TRUSTED my instincts -- they were GOOD.  All of the answers to my questions and concerns, I already had.  As a kid, I had just learned to quiet them, discount them, ignore them, explain them away, etc.  Once I stopped doing that, life has started to get a LOT easier.

You're the only one who knows the people involved, the nuances of the situation, etc.  If you think it was inappropriate, it probably was.  Sometimes the judgment call isn't in the "facts" -- often it's in the feelings, nuances, details, unspoken, instinctual parts of the story that can't really be explained or seen by outsiders.

I mean, I don't really see why your mother NEEDED to undress, so that right there seems a little strange to me.  I know some parents shower or bathe with their children in the bathroom with them when they're really young, just so they don't have to leave the child unattended.  If your niece is 1.5yo she probably won't remember it.  But I could see how this would feel creepy to you.

And like I said, what I've been learning about my own perceptions and judgments, is that if it FEELS creepy to me -- even if I can't explain it and anyone else might look at it as innocent -- I know these people, I know the back stories, I know the traditions and family norms -- and if I think it's creepy, there's a 99% chance that it IS creepy.

PS -- It's sad that your mother cannot respect your feelings and boundaries and put some clothes on around you, knowing that it offends her daughter.  Personally, I would be wildly uncomfortable if I knew I was offending someone by the way I was clothed, and I knew I could do something about it.  The best you can do is set boundaries with her, and not allow yourself to stay in the victim role (it isn't healthy for you).  I'd tell her that you won't visit her if she won't be fully clothed.  I would ask her to put on clothing if she disrobes in front of you, and if she refuses, I would leave her house.  And if she did it in my house, I would kick her out.  She's welcome to dress any darn way she wishes, but that doesn't mean she is entitled to subject you to it -- nor does it mean you're required to stick around for it.

You may be closely identifying with your nieces, due to the fact that she's subjecting them to the same behavior that disturbs you so greatly.  But at the end of the day, they aren't your kids and you can only set your own boundaries and do what's best for you.  And hopefully when they get old enough, they'll be able to set their own boundaries with her.  Might as well pave the way for them and teach her that she can't get away with not caring about other people's feelings and bulldozing everyone's boundaries! 

[lucylou]

Hi I just wanted to say it sounds very odd to me and i would have felt creeped out. My uBPD mother would swing between  the extremes of being a prude (ie bodies are dirty) to doing stuff like this  or pointing out my developing breast etc . I remember reading in a book i think it was called "the emotionally absent mother" but i might be wrong ,that children can find these things frightening. The child just sees a huge pair of boobs/ other bodily bits which to them are scary.She said it is a boundary violation to do this kind of stuff as children need to learn that bodies are private  and we all need to respect each others privacy, that then holds us in good stead later in life. When you think about how Borderlines have no regard for boundaries or peoples privacy it kind of fits with their thinking to do these kinds of things. I know my mother had no regard for my own privacy in fact your post has triggered off some stuff in me that maybe I need to write about so thanks for that      

Dont know what else to add but I feel you are spot on in your thinking.

[GeekyGirl]

My rule of thumb is, when it comes to parenting, you have to go with your gut instinct as to what's appropriate and what's inappropriate for your children. If you're bothered by your mother's lack of clothing, it's worth asking your mother from taking off her clothes around the children again or not put your children in a position where it could happen again.

Have you asked your mother (perhaps using SET) to stay fully clothed around the children? If not, how could you make it clear that it's not ok for her to be undressed around the kids?

Cassy has a good point too. If your mother is in her own home, she does have a right to wear whatever she wants. That's why it's up to you to decide what situations are ok and not ok for the kids, and make whatever adjustments you need to.

[MissyM]

If your mother is in her own home, she does have a right to wear whatever she wants.

  I greatly disagree with this statement.  There are small children involved, does that give her a right to do whatever she wants around them?  This is a boundary violation with small children.  My husband was raised by a BPD mother and I can see him saying that she has the right to do whatever she wants in her own house.  This is one of the many reasons my children are not allowed around his mother, she has no respect for the boundaries of others.  This would be considered by many therapists to be a form of covert sexual abuse.  Go with your instincts!

[P.F.Change]

How do the girls' parents feel about it? Did you decide to tell them what you saw?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[supergirl2]

Thank you Missy and PF Change. No I haven't told my sister about it, I really don't want to cause trouble/drama. Thankfully the girls see my mom only 2-3 times a year at most in a home situation like this, other visits are holiday situations where there are lots of people around.

I guess some consider this to be ok, for me it makes me very uncomfortable and I know how bothersome it was to me as I experienced it in my childhood and teen years. If she ever were to go further with the exposure in front of the girls at any age below 17, I would take no time in making sure this is known to their mom. It makes me really sad that I even have to worry about all this. I'm not a very religious person and yet that verse about the sins of the father falling on the sons of the father and the father's father and so on keeps running through my head.

[clljhns]

Hi supergirl2,

I haven't read all of the responses, so I apologize if someone has already said this. My first response was   ! This really triggered something in me. I have babysat my nephews on many occasions, and never stripped to my bra and underwear in front of them. I vacationed with one sister and her son for several years. We all stayed in the same condo or house together, but never did I enter any common space, or their private space in underclothes.

If this is a common practice in your mom's home, and the mother of the kids she babysat is aware of this and feels comfortable with this, then I could somewhat see this as status quo. However, everything in me is screaming that this is unhealthy! I think part of what really bothers me is that mom went into room with clothes on to comfort a child that was in distress. She is then seen with nothing but her bra and underwear next to child. I wonder if she was attempting to quiet the child in a manner that would bring her (mom)comfort? Did you share this with the child's mom? I think she needs to know to make the decision if this is okay with her.

I hope I am not creating mountain out of a molehill, but this disturbs me greatly.

Peace and blessings   

[TwilightVelvet]

It's not setting off alarm bells and I'm wary of using the idea of "sexual abuse" -- it's underwear or something you'd see at the beach, so I'm not sure I am seeing it as something dangerous. I think maybe it's a bit strange as in, why does she need to be in her undies right then? Was she in the midst of changing and got distracted? Was she hot, having a hot flash or something? Not sure.

I am definitely more on the side of teaching the correct body parts and not creating a sense of shame but that doesn't mean there are no limits to what is appropriate. If she had been nude I would be freaked out; underwear not quite so much especially since you said she has a history of clothing problems. If you know she does not like to wear clothes then you have to not let the kids be there just in case she decides to go around au natural.

My own sister is BPD and flips out over any kind of underwear or nudity of any kind. She's very very prudish about it but she will tell you all about the details of her marital relations and pretty much force it on you with you begging her not to tell you. really strange, eh?

[supergirl2]

Twilightvelvet, that is bizarre about your sister. She can dish out boundary violations but holds a more than necessary guard of her own.

With my mom, I don't believe she has harmful intentions, I think she just doesn't see anything wrong with it at all and does not understand when what she does makes other people uncomfortable. For her, if she doesn't understand another's point of view, then it has no validity at all.

I was trying to figure out the other day why her exposure made me uncomfortable at the age of 13+, why not younger, and then it struck me... we had a live in babysitter until I was 13 so she didn't have the chance to do this freely until the babysitter left, otherwise I probably would have been exposed to this kind of thing from a young age. However, thankfully I was not. What is a problem for me inparticular is that I'm bisexual. I do NOT see my mom that way, but her exposure is as wrong and disturbing to me as a teen being exposed to the same in an opposite gendered parent. My mom doesn't know I'm bisexual but I believe she has suspicions that she has made no efforts to hide. I'm pretty sure she thought I was gay for a while when I didn't date a guy for 2 years. The only reason I've never told her is because nothing is off limits to her and she needles anyone around with inappropriate sexual comments meant to embarrass you in front of others by talking about private parts of your body/or speculating on very human sexual feelings you might have just walking around in the world. She does this to myself, my dad, and my sister, always in front of other members of the family and she seems to get great enjoyment out of it. I know it would be her own personal field day to mortify me and make me uncomfortable if I told her and for that reason, I won't be telling her, ever, unless I end up with a female and therefore have to by necessity. She simply has no boundaries of any type in any facet of interpersonal relations.

[rebl.brown]

Supergirl,

hi, you answered your own question at the end of your last post.  "Nothing is off limits to my Mom" this is the real problem and can fold over into sexuality as well.  Children must be protected but this area is especially precious.  I don't  want to tell you  what to do because I only know a little of the story,  but you asked for opinions, I do think you should probably tell your sister, even if it does make things blow up.  My BPD mother sexually abused me as a young child and it has caused terrible sorrow all my life.  Some things were very blatant and obvious but lots of things were as you described, not in your face yet odd to someone else who might not understand the dynamics of BPD.  It is extremely upsetting to me as a woman that my own mother had no boundaries or respect for me and that included my body.  She had a way of using nudity to terrorize me and get at my helplessness and vulnerability.  I think if it made your skin crawl you should pay attention to that.  You don't have to make accusations, just tell what you saw and your concerns and then it will be up to your sister to decide what to do.  When you think of your mother and you as a young child did she do things like ignore privacy, use doctors to abuse you, take pictures, do inappropriate or uncomfortable things in the bath to you, shame you, talk inappropriately about her sex life?  I say this to say that this is the classic way women sexually molest children, it is different than men and is not always seen as such.  BPDs fly under the radar so well. What I've described seems so minor compared to the abuse friends I know have suffered, I only know that it nearly destroyed my spirit and took so much joy away for so many years.   I hope I have not upset you, please let me know how you are and how things go.  Protect the kids at all costs

[rebl.brown]

I reread your post, the behavior you described of your mother's abuse of all of you through shame and sexual talk is sexual abuse.  BPDs are even able to figure out how to sexually assault you without actually doing it physically though I'd bet she's done that in a sneaky way too if you thought about it.  I don't know what you think but if you talked to a therapist and told that story they'd tell you that is sexually abuse!  Put a stop to it.

[P.F.Change]

I'm sorry for what you went through, rebl.brown.

And, supergirl2, I am also sorry your mother's behavior has made you so uncomfortable. Most older children don't want to see their parents without clothes on, or to have their parents see them, regardless of the genders involved. It is a pretty normal part of growing up to adopt some boundaries about nudity and sex; most parents don't make sexual comments about their children or vice-versa.

I agree that your observation that "nothing is off limits" to your mom is probably accurate. People with BPD often don't see why other people should have boundaries. They lack an independent sense of self and often rely on others to provide an identity; enmeshment is often how this is achieved. That can't be done if everyone has healthy boundaries.

I think this statement is also important: "For her, if she doesn't understand another's point of view, then it has no validity at all." People with BPD often struggle with empathy. They may be less able to accurately identify other people's emotions than the general population, especially if they are in a state of emotional arousal themselves. It can be very difficult for someone with BPD to understand why something that is funny to them could be offensive to someone else--it must be the other person has no sense of humor. Or why nudity would make someone else feel uncomfortable--they must be a prude. I think the combined deficit in empathy and boundary skills leads to a lot of the conflicts we have with people with BPD. This is where tools like TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

can be handy, because they help us validate the other person's right to see things their way while asserting our right to see things our way.

Your sister also grew up with your mother and probably already knows she has no problem getting undressed in front of her family. Based on what you have said elsewhere, it's possible that your sister has her own set of issues as well. As a parent, I would probably want to know if someone caring for my child was doing something other people felt was inappropriate; still it is up to you to decide whether to try sharing this information with your sister.

Have you had any luck finding a therapist?

[TwilightVelvet]

The only reason I've never told her is because nothing is off limits to her and she needles anyone around with inappropriate sexual comments meant to embarrass you in front of others by talking about private parts of your body/or speculating on very human sexual feelings you might have just walking around in the world. She does this to myself, my dad, and my sister, always in front of other members of the family and she seems to get great enjoyment out of it.

That sounds like my sister in that she will bring up sex to anyone and everyone and start telling me, our mom, her own kids about her sexual life. She even emailed my father in law and said he should go on a sexual adventure with her, then she emailed my sister in law and told her she's... . well... . here is an excerpt:

You might be a hot looking woman I have no idea. If youre cute and hot looking

just ignore me ok? BTW, are you hot looking?

Never mind me ok?

Ok cool... if you ever want to talk about sex, let me know ok? I'm here and

I am queer! I AM GAY and I am love in life

Please dont hurt the gay woman cause we got laws here against gays now :D

LOVE YOU!

Did that make ANY sense? And it's just out of the blue, she sends this to my sister in law. My SIL was pissed at me and asking how she got her email -- I had cc'ed them all on some photos a few times. My sister's never gone that far before so I didn't expect that kind of behavior. I mean she crossed a serious boundary because my in laws now think I'm crazy because of her and look scornfully on my whole family. Stigma up the wazoo.

[TwilightVelvet]

I do also think that she is enjoying trying to humiliate or shame me and others about sexuality, nudity etc. Like your mom. My father actually did stuff like that as well though not in front of others. He would ask me about masturbatory habits, how it felt to masturbate etc. I mean that is the kind of sexual abuse that he did to me, as well as grabbing my butt a lot and little things like that. It was not an overt thing and in therapy years later a doc would say, "that's sexual" and I'd be like, "REALLY?" Like he had us tickle his arm so many times and stuff. I don't know if he was borderline (I don't think so) but my sister seems to have a really deep sense of guilt and shame over her body. She's intense about it and seems to project that onto others.

[supergirl2]

PF Change, thanks for your post. I haven't had calm in the house to go about looking for a new therapist unfortunately  It's maddening, but that's my priority for Monday. Something that has crossed my mind... . entering therapy to deal with all of this, is it going to be mostly supportive and stress relieving, or is it going to induce greater stress to look at my family life/childhood etc? If anyone who has done this could tell me how it went, that would be helpful. I'm going through aggressive medical treatment right now and need my immune system to be as strong as possible, which will greatly affect how and if I get well. Is it better to wait until all the health problems are lessened/gone to go about therapy to deal with living with this chaos all the time, or will it help lessen the stress I feel right now and actually HELP my health?

Twilightvelvet, What your sister is doing is NOT OK. Seriously... . just... .

What I do want to shed light on which may... . or may not... . apply, is what I noticed in her quoted email. Did she come out just recently before that email or come to terms with being gay not long before that email? Or does she seem to still struggle with accepting and being ok with her own orientation? For most people, the realization that they're gay or bisexual is accompanied by an "wow please don't let this be. I don't want to be... " moment. This may continue for weeks, months, even years. In time some people may stuff that fear down so deeply that even they believe they're straight/or they forget about it entirely and shut down the sexual side of themselves. Then... . THEN... . later, they realize they're gay or bisexual and with that realization often comes joy in finally knowing and understanding why they feel different. An "it's not your feet, you're wearing an ill fitting pair of shoes" type of realization. When people finally see and acknowledge their own orientation and feel ok with it, they can often react in a way that they want to tell the entire world. It can be like finding a missing puzzle piece they didn't know was missing, an unexpected treasure in the dirt that turned everything to green grass. I have mentored lgbt individuals and this pattern and reaction is extremely common. They finally realize what is "wrong" with them only to find out that it's nothing wrong at all, and that is often a liberating, exciting feeling of sheer happiness and freedom as well as a want to discover what they've been missing. On the other hand, some people express pride because of 2 common reasons: 1, it can be a reaction to an injustice. When a core and unchangeable part of yourself is not accepted by society, to have pride in it is the exact opposite. It's a response to show the world that not only is this ok, it's more than ok, I have PRIDE in it. And at the same time pride (in anything about yourself) is something that is untouchable and in-destructive no matter how hateful others may be or the opinions they may hold. But there's another side, and often when people have just realized their own orientation or just came out, it becomes they're IDENTITY. They realize "this part of me is good and awesome" and it becomes all of their focus, all of them, and all of how they present themselves to the world. This tends to go away with time as people learn to accept themselves and come to terms with their orientation and what it means to them. Being gay or bisexual, and this takes time to learn, is just a part of you and not all of you. It can have great influence on your life being a physiological component that determines what gender you spend your life with, but it's little more than that and you teach others how much to focus on it by how much you focus on it. Being labeled as gay or bisexual and having others define you in that way rather than who you are, is not a good thing. Projecting too much "pride" (like I noticed in your sister's email... . among the many other things that were wrong with that email, haha) can also be overcompensation for still feeling insecure about being gay as well. So many people struggle with completely accepting it even after they've accepted it, and the trick is to acknowledge it and know yourself, and let it be what it is. It doesn't need to be a label, your identity, a source of personal shame nor power, boundary breaking or anything else. Society makes a massive, mythical, idolized, distant, stupidly inflated deal out of sex and orientation, far more than what it really is. Your sister's email could be coming from any of the various forms of struggling with accepting herself, but her email and the things she's saying are just... . noo noo... . noo... . SO NOT OK... . and yes, weird. Totally weird. If she ever makes an inappropriately big deal out of being gay while using that to excuse her inappropriate sexual remarks, you could tell her "I don't think it's a big deal that you're gay though I commend you for accepting it and having a positive attitude, that must have taken strength to get to that point. I like to know you for you and you have a lot more to offer the world than your sexual orientation. I don't introduce myself as 'Hi, I'm "Sally" (your name), and I'm straight.' It's just a part of you and I understand that." Even if she gets mad, I bet you it'll open her eyes to acknowledging and hopefully shifting her focus to other positive qualities about herself that represent HER, not her biology.

[clljhns]

supergirl2

I am so sorry to hear about your health issues! I can't imagine the struggles you must be going through and with the family issues on top of everything else, must be exhausting. 

In answer to your question about starting therapy now or after health issues are resolved, I think only you will know what is best for you. I can tell you that for me, going into therapy was a wonderful release of emotions that I had bottled up for years. I ignored my childhood abuse and went on with life, acting as if nothing had happened. Once I faced everything and went into therapy, I found that I could make sense of things for once in my life. It opened up Pandora's box for sure, but then I could put those issues to rest and move on. I was able to move on in the sense that the surface issues were dealt with, but much still remained under the surface. I wish I had continued therapy longer, but felt so much better, I thought I was ready to stop. So, I have just started therapy again. This time I am committed to sticking with it to the end.

I don't want to make it sound as if there will be no end to therapy, or imply that you will need therapy for years. Only sharing my own experiences.

I hope this helps you. I wish you much healing and peace. 

[P.F.Change]

Is it better to wait until all the health problems are lessened/gone to go about therapy to deal with living with this chaos all the time, or will it help lessen the stress I feel right now and actually HELP my health?

Those are really good questions, and I think a lot of people ask that before starting therapy. It can be scary when you don't know what to expect.

I think therapy teaches people the tools they need to reduce and manage stress. Sometimes the work in therapy can be challenging and bring up some difficult feelings, that is true. It is ok to express any concerns about the possible emotional stress of therapy with your counselor. In my experience, some of the things brought up in therapy were stressful to think about, however that stress went away after a day or two, and it was not nearly as difficult later on in the process. I was learning to cope.

I look at it like a broken bone. If you break your arm, you need to go to a doctor to have it set and casted. It will hurt when s/he touches it, and there will be limitations because of the cast. But those are better than not going to the doctor at all. Otherwise the bone won't heal properly, you will be prone to having it re-injured, and the limitations will be long-term rather than temporary.

You are dealing with a lot at home, no doubt. To me it seems like you could use some professional support with that. Ultimately, though, you know yourself best and it is up to you to decide what you are ready to try.

PF

[PleaseValidate]

I'm more of the opinion of Cassy's- that it is never healthy to raise children, especially girls, to be ashamed of their own bodies.

Having said that, context is everything and you know your family better than anyone.

In my own experience, it never bothered me when my Grams or BPDMO changed clothes in front of me (except for maybe feeling a bit awkward in the moment, confused on whether I should look, etc.) I've had this discussion w friends raised by non borderlines and im always surprised at how few people saw their parents naked as a child.

It was only when BPDmo expected ME to take my clothes off in front of others that I had strong negative feelings, even when just in front of another woman.

[BabeRuthless]

This topic raises fear and repugnance for me, as we had related behavior in my family. I agree with those above who say to trust your instincts, and see the appropriateness (or not) of the event in the context of overall behavior and relationship.

My uBPD mother frequently walked around half or undressed with me as a child. My older half-sister pulled up her blouse and exposed her (very large) boobs to my twin sister's husband years ago. This same half-sister will go on and on, in front of her (mentally ill) teenagers, about their dad's sex drive, and how he always wants sex from her (sorry to sound so personal). She'll tell us how "horny" her husband is, and how he drags her to the bedroom, when she returns from a trip and he's been "deprived." 

Both my mother and half-sister will walk into a bathroom, pull down their pants, do their business, and use the TP without closing the door. My half-sister talks about body functions and hygiene in a way I find crude and overly personal.

For me, these behaviors represent a distressing lack of boundaries among my women relatives. Usually, I experience them as desperately needy and using their bodies/sexuality to get attention and affection. They also seem to want to be accepted, in all their messiness, and to "merge" with others out of a lack of self esteem.

When I was younger (and sometimes even now), I felt dismay and shame at these raw, pathetic attention-seeking behaviors... . I almost felt guilty to be a woman, and about having a female body. I also felt that, with my quieter and more intellectual personality, I  couldn't "compete" with female relatives who were behaving this way, or identify normal needs and get them met.

This topic is upsetting for me. But it's good that someone raised it... . it feels like a relief to discuss it in a safe place. 

[BabeRuthless]

Someone asked above if another poster's BPD parent ever took nude pictures, and it set something off in my mind about my uBPD mother. Not related to physical nudity or sex, but a kind of emotional nudity that my mother lives in. She tends to observe and verbally point out very raw, personal things about people.

Does this sound like something to others that a pwBPD might do? About 12 years ago, the day after my late husband had had his second or third brain surgery for a tumor, my mother took a picture of the back of his poor, torn up, sutured head and gave it to his parents. I don't know why she did this. And they expressed dismay that someone would do this.

Now that I'm remembering, I recall that the night before my wedding to my late husband (whose brain tumor had been dormant for years but had affected some functioning), my mother said to me, "How could you want to have sex with him?" I was hurt and appalled. Is this BPD behavior?

   

[clljhns]

Wow! BabeRuthless,


Uh. I am shocked by your mom's callousness. I think that all BPD's have a problem with filters. They don't seem to exist. I find that with my own uBPDmom, she had no ability to think before she spoke. Some of the things she said were unbelievably shocking. For example, when one of my sister's had separated from her husband, my mom had several conversations with him about their sex life! She then was all too happy to share this information with me and my other sister. I believe that my look of shock only fed her sick need to share the information. She misread my look to mean that I was equally shocked about the type of sexual encounters my sister had with her husband! I was not the least bit interested and was shocked that my mom had asked the question of my brother-in-law and that he even responded! Sick, is all I can say!

BPD's think of their needs in the moment. Almost like a toddler running around without the ability to control themselves. This is why we have parents to teach us to monitor ourselves and filter what we say and do. BPD's just did not learn this, or refuse to incorporate this into their make-up. I think that BPD's get a rush, almost a high, if you will, from exposing dark and disturbing secrets about others. I would see the joy in my mom's face as she would recount sensitive information, almost like she was vindicated for saying the terrible things that she did for many years about my sister.

I feel for you. I do. I completely understand your being perplexed over her actions. This is a healthy response to someone is definitely not healthy.

[supergirl2]

Is your last paragraph in reply to my orig. post or to baberuthless? Just clarifying, I'm not bothered if it's for baberuthless. <3

[clljhns]

supergirl2,

Sorry about the confusion!  Yes. The last post was in response to BabeRuthless.

Have you talked with your sister about what you witnessed? What are your thoughts on the various posts?

Peace and blessings