Do I go through with the deal or not?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm sure everyone has been waiting... . holding their breath to see how the deal making a trip worked out. 

She is supposed to be back later today.

Some mid grade grumpy texts came in about me not answering my phone... telling her what to do... etc etc... .   No truth to any of her claims.

These are exactly the kinds of behaviors and texts that she agreed to not do in return for me signing cars into joint ownership.  Monday is the day I was going in to do this... . I think she has to be with me.  Our next marriage counseling is on Tuesday. 

So... . need some opinions on going to counseling with the "proof" of why I didn't sign over and try to work it out there.

Or should I go ahead and sign over so I can show a record that I kept both "deals"... . and she busted both.  At that point... . my deal making is over... . and I can skip the drama until she has been drama free on Sundays for a long time... . and no texts for long time.  Although I'll have to define that somehow... . or probably should.

I lean towards option 2... . so that this will clarify things to marriage counselor.  I'll still be blamed somehow... .

Thoughts?

[formflier]

I'm sure everyone has been waiting... . holding their breath to see how the deal making a trip worked out. 

She is supposed to be back later today.

Some mid grade grumpy texts came in about me not answering my phone... telling her what to do... etc etc... .   No truth to any of her claims.

These are exactly the kinds of behaviors and texts that she agreed to not do in return for me signing cars into joint ownership.  Monday is the day I was going in to do this... . I think she has to be with me.  Our next marriage counseling is on Tuesday. 

So... . need some opinions on going to counseling with the "proof" of why I didn't sign over and try to work it out there.

Or should I go ahead and sign over so I can show a record that I kept both "deals"... . and she busted both.  At that point... . my deal making is over... . and I can skip the drama until she has been drama free on Sundays for a long time... . and no texts for long time.  Although I'll have to define that somehow... . or probably should.

I lean towards option 2... . so that this will clarify things to marriage counselor.  I'll still be blamed somehow... .

Thoughts?

[an0ught]

Hi formflier,

These are exactly the kinds of behaviors and texts that she agreed to not do in return for me signing cars into joint ownership.  Monday is the day I was going in to do this... . I think she has to be with me.  Our next marriage counseling is on Tuesday. 

the whole crux with BPD and with us making deals is that we are dealing with a counter-party that is not able to control their behavior. We are probably more aware than our counter-party that they will not be able to perform. Still we are entering into agreements. Who is to blame 

The whole point about boundaries being under our control is eliminating the counter-party risk for those things that matter a lot to us. Now discussing and agreeing on boundaries can make sense as it makes clear where the lines are. But at the stage of recovery where your relationship is at the moment assuming that she will be able to stick to every letter of the contract would be naive. Still there may be progress in that the situation is not escalating or is recovering faster. An important benefit of these deal is that when there are consequences it is clearer why they are there and we are less often or strongly blamed (not saying there will not be some fig leaf blaming  ).

We are not expecting teens to toe the line perfectly and we are not expecting them to grow up overnight either.

Or should I go ahead and sign over so I can show a record that I kept both "deals"... . and she busted both.  At that point... . my deal making is over... . and I can skip the drama until she has been drama free on Sundays for a long time... . and no texts for long time.  Although I'll have to define that somehow... . or probably should.

Is this about judging her? Is this about protecting yourself from your own emotions and you want to be more objective? Is she behaving different? How do you thinks she sees her own efforts?

[formflier]

 

Is this about judging her? Is this about protecting yourself from your own emotions and you want to be more objective? Is she behaving different? How do you thinks she sees her own efforts?

Good question... . for me... . this is about clarifying in the counseling room who is able to deliver and who is not.  It's about that in real life as well... . but my immediate concern is how I present myself and help to move marriage counseling to the point where it helps or that we stop wasting our time with that. 

So... on the one hand I believe that I am under no obligation to go through with the car signing and could say that I' willing to do it in the future if there a couple text bomb free weeks or something like that. 

But that still opens things up to JADEing about why I didn't and all that... . doesn't leave things nice and crisp.

What I think I'm going to do is go through with the transfer... . and there will be no wiggle room about my "compliance". 

Sure... . she can blame me for her actions and all that.

This is what I figured would happen with the deals... . and I'm ok with this outcome... . not mad at all.  Just trying to analyze the best moves to make so there is a chance for "productivity".

Her behavior was medium grade b___ing and moaning this morning.  I did SET quite a bit... . seemed more natural this morning (I've been practicing during the week by myself).

Oh... . and she took the kids to another church this morning... . no choices for me... . tried to spin it as what "I want" even though it is the deal she imposed.

And about 3 or 4 minutes of a closed door rant about our relationship that I was in error that I heard because she told me not to listen and closed the door.

So... . maybe behaving a bit different... . but not much.

There was no thankfulness about going on the trip.

I think she sees her own efforts as trying to figure out how to put up with my BS that I bring to relationship... . she said something like that this morning.  Said that people can't be forced to change so she will have to figure out how to deal with it.

(So... check my SET)  I acknowledged her frustration... . then said that I could see that anyone in that situation would feel frustrated... . and then stated that I agree we are all responsible for our own behavior. 

Holding my breath on my grade! 

So... . my final answer is that I think if you substituted the word reality for "judging"... . when you asked about judging her... . that would be an accurate answer for me.  I just want to deal with the reality that I can make and keep deals and she can't.  That needs to be clear for me, her and the marriage counselor.  If I have fully complied with my side of the deal... . then there is nothing for me to argue about or JADE... . I can sit back and listen to whatever stories she will come up with for why she didn't do her part.

There is history here... . in past counselings I was advised to love her and let things slide... . I ended up reinventing myself several times into exactly what she asked for... . then she would b___ and moan about the way I was.  I'm not doing that anymore.  Reality matters to me... . if that blows up the counseling... . the marriage... whatever... . I'll stick with that value. 

Thoughts?

[formflier]

Hey... . one last thing for everyone to consider... . as your guys are thinking of advice.

I'm probably a bit extreme on the "reality thing".  Over 20 years and thousands of hours of military aviation (now you get where the name comes from... . ) have taught me to ignore feelings... . focus on the facts (your instruments... what was said on radio... . what the Landing Signal Officer said... what was said in the briefing... . etc etc.

I'm sure I will soften over the years... . but to me... . this is "core" issue. 

Toss in some PTSD from some lovely fires and other lovely experiences... I'm sure living with uBPDw has also contributed... . and this is an interesting situation to unravel.  In many situations I have had I believe with all my heart that I am alive today because I focused on the facts... . ignored the feelings... . and acted appropriately to deal with the emergency... .

So... . when I have a "emergency" in my marriage... . I run hard to facts and reality... . going anywhere other than that is extremely uncomfortable.

Hows that for a little more spice to the situation... .

[formflier]

So... the roller coaster is back. 

Yesterday morning was challenging to say the least.  We went to a pig roast/political event in the afternoon.  It was a great time... . lots of people talking to her and complimenting her.

After that... . she has been on top of the world for all of last evening and night... . seems to be keeping going this morning.

When I say top of the world... . this would be behaving like there was never a problem between us... . very close... "just like old times".

Hmmmm

Maybe another thing to get comments and advice on from the board... . it would seem that people staying with those with BPD need to have a two tracked mind.  Be ready to act appropriately when the crazy comes... . but also when the person you fell in love with shows up... . be ready to enjoy that for all its worth... . knowing at some point it will come to screeching halt...

[an0ught]

Nope, waiting for bad times to return is not good enough.

Validation - grounding in reality. Regulating some over the top positive emotions. Providing accurate emotional feedback.

Boundaries - your stuff vs. my stuff. Your problem vs. my problem.

Self care - building buffers (regulation behavior, food, sleep, financial).

Continuous working on increasing overall resilience of ourselves and the pwBPD.

You won't be able to prevent a down move and probably trying to do so would be walking on egg-shells. You want it however to be more shallow and a faster bounce back.

[formflier]

Got it.   Luckily the good times continue and none of her actions in good times are going after boundaries.  In other words... . I don't see any sneak attacks.

Nope, waiting for bad times to return is not good enough.

Validation - grounding in reality. Regulating some over the top positive emotions. Providing accurate emotional feedback.

Boundaries - your stuff vs. my stuff. Your problem vs. my problem.

Self care - building buffers (regulation behavior, food, sleep, financial).

Continuous working on increasing overall resilience of ourselves and the pwBPD.

You won't be able to prevent a down move and probably trying to do so would be walking on egg-shells. You want it however to be more shallow and a faster bounce back.

[formflier]

Signed over!

Things were a little "tense" when she was in my office before we went down to sign.  I would say pensive...

We also were getting some tags renewed... . so there was a pile of paperwork for cars to work through.

She all of a sudden wanted to talk about financial difficulties in rental houses and that kind of thing.  I expressed that I would like to focus on getting cars right and work on that issue later.  She didn't argue... . but i don't think I said that as "gently" or "evenly" as I should.  I'm sure I came off as irritated. 

One of our many issues is that she wants to discuss and deal with several topics at once... . I would much rather deal with just one... . especially if there is paperwork and getting it right matters!

Thoughts on how to redirect things to the task at hand... . and not invalidate in the process?

[an0ught]

She all of a sudden wanted to talk about financial difficulties in rental houses and that kind of thing.  I expressed that I would like to focus on getting cars right and work on that issue later.  She didn't argue... . but i don't think I said that as "gently" or "evenly" as I should.  I'm sure I came off as irritated. 

Don't take it personally or see it as related to your negotiation. It is not about you or your deal although I completely understand how this can be irritating. Sudden topic changes often are a sign of splitting due to emotional excitation. So validation of whatever anxiety, insecurity or fear is at the moment present may help. Then without judgment going back to the topic that needs dealing with. In summary - SET.

[ziniztar]

Sudden topic changes often are a sign of splitting due to emotional excitation.

That's interesting. The other day my dDPbf was talking about his ex and how he sometimes misses her. I validate that because I can understand that he misses some of her influences and she meant a lot to him. He was talking about it and wanted to cry, got a little teary and sad, and all of a sudden he couldn't anymore. He said (which I think is really really really interesting self awareness) "wow this really is the borderline at work here, I want to be sad about this but I can't. I don't feel anything anymore, all of a sudden. It's gone." And it really was.

Next time I'll try to SET a little bit more - although I have to say that I don't like talking about her all night so there's an end to that as well .

[hurthusband]

"wow this really is the borderline at work here, I want to be sad about this but I can't. I don't feel anything anymore, all of a sudden. It's gone." And it really was.

I chuckled at that.  Partly because its a realization that we all see, and its interesting to see when they see it.  Part of it sounded like some Robert Downey Jr. role where he plays a smarmy sociopath who is trying to be sympathetic.

Its funny and sad because unlike a sociopath, they want to feel and care.

[formflier]

I'm seeing it... .

So... . "honey I see you are concerned about the credit card debt, i'm concerned about that as well, we will work on how to deal with that tonight after dinner"

SET... . maybe I got the empathy part... . although the truth part seems a bit odd... . any suggestions on what might have been a better SET?  Especially the T.

She all of a sudden wanted to talk about financial difficulties in rental houses and that kind of thing.  I expressed that I would like to focus on getting cars right and work on that issue later.  She didn't argue... . but i don't think I said that as "gently" or "evenly" as I should.  I'm sure I came off as irritated. 

Don't take it personally or see it as related to your negotiation. It is not about you or your deal although I completely understand how this can be irritating. Sudden topic changes often are a sign of splitting due to emotional excitation. So validation of whatever anxiety, insecurity or fear is at the moment present may help. Then without judgment going back to the topic that needs dealing with. In summary - SET.