first therapy session ... what to say / do?

[deflated]

Hi

My wife and I are going into couples counseling next week.  The session is with her individual therapist (who I believe is a psyhcologist, will confirm later).  I've asked to have a 1:1 with the therapist beforehand because I want to make sure I can get along with her, get a sense of what her plan is and whether I think she's right for "both of us" to see together. 

Since coming across the boards, the articles I've read on this condition and how well it relates to our situation, I'm pretty firmly convinced that at a minimum she has borderline personality type, and probably the full disorder.  Its a challenging time, on the one hand I feel like a lot of questions from the course of our relationship are answered - on the other hand I feel like a LOT of new questions just got opened up.  I'm also concerned that I dont know how much her individual therpaist has picked up on in their sessions.

Which brings me to the point of this post.  I'm trying to work out how to present my concerns to her (soon to be our) therapist in a way that will be taken seriously, and not just as some kind of attempt by a husband to deflect blame prior to the couples session.  From what I've heard of their sessions, the therapist has so far made a number of observations to my wife that suggest she's identified BPD symptoms are present, however I'm also aware that my wife is minimizing a number of her issues as well.  [ mainly relating to alcohol consumption and food consumption].  There's a flip side to this obviously, in the sense that my wife's behaviour is less extreme over the last few years than when we first met.  There was a big dissociative break a few months back ( which resulted in her latest round of therapy) but prior to that things had been going "ok". [ well... . many crises in her life, many outbursts, many explanations to me why I'm the cause of half the world's problems etc etc].

So ... . any suggestions?  I want this issue on the table, somehow, in our couple's sessions so that we might get some movement on it.  Long term, the best thing for my wife if she has this condition is to get appropriate help.  That may or may not result in us staying together. 

[Love Is Not Enough]

I also saw a psychologist with my uBPDgf. She was seeing his wife individually who is a counselor and deals with a lot of BPDs. My T is a counselor who works in the same office. That is a lot of T's 

So... .

My T was the one who suggested the whole BPD thing after hearing about the burning/cutting. So she was cordinating with the husband and wife team. No one ever told my gf about BPD. I do not think her current T has either. As far as I know, my gf has never heard of BPD.

Even with all of that it didn't work out. The pshycologist was very submissive and would never call her out on any of her crazy ideas. Someone yesterday on a post called it playing judge and that is what I wanted. I wanted him to validate me by telling her she was in the wrong. She blew up a few times and I could tell he was scared of her. It never got us anywhere and I do not think MC is a great idea until they are further into recovery. We stopped going after about 6 sessions.

My gf also stopped seeing the wife individually because all she did was bring up past hurtful things (so she claimed). That T did not focus on DBT. I finally got her to someone who specialized in DBT and it is going much better now. Although I still do not think my gf is ready for MC yet after 6 months of DBT. Maybe in another year or so it will be helpful. I just focus on myself now, enforce my boundaries and work the tools from here. My life is MUCH better now.

Good luck and I hope things improve for you so you can join us on the staying board 

[gary seven]

Dear Deflated:

To briefly answer what to say/do?  OBSERVE.  LISTEN.

Walk carefully when you "share" a therapist who already has an ethical, moral  and medico-legal/privacy allegiance to your wife, in terms of the doctor-patient relationship.

When you get a chance to speak, the "cleanest" thing to do is ask her therapist to recommend a neutral, third party person to do your couples' work.  Many good therapists have good colleagues they refer to on a regular basis.

You should have your own T. 

Like LINO says, you need to build your own boundaries, take care of yourself first.

My personal experiences with MC have been horrible.  Now my spouse wants to start up again, desperate to "save the family."  What it does is delay the inevitable.

You have my support, whatever you choose to do.  Sometimes it's like singing a duet with someone you have never met:  you gotta learn as you go along thru the tune.  BTW, I can't sing worth a lick.  Even my cats meow when I start up!

[deflated]

Hi guys

Thanks for replies here.  I did go to the psychologist a couple weeks back and had "an interesting hour" with her to say the least.  She did preserve some boundaries about what she's able to say about my wife and their therapy, [ ie she didnt flat out agree "yes your wife has BPD"] , however I left there thinking that we're on the same page .  Which is a bit weird I suppose, but it seemed like she implicitly agreed with what I was saying.

I discussed the desire to have a different therapist for MC, and came away agreed with her psych that was what we'd do.  Next thing, my wife goes in to see her and demands we both see her!  I now think we are going to go down the same path as last time we are in MC, which is that in the therapist's attempts to be neutral and validate both of us, my wife will decide the therapist is no good and end it (end MC that is).

So... . first joint MC is next week.  In the interim between our ( my wife & I ) original discussion about why we need to get to MC, I've spent some time addressing the SPECIFIC issues she raised as the 'cause of our problems'.  Its early days, but the findings so far are that basically its not making a difference .  Its so confounding : someone says " you never do X / Y  / Z" , so you literally do X / Y / Z in a context that doesnt make it obvious you're doing it in response to a complaint, over the course of a couple months, and ... . nothing.  The problems are not XYZ.  They are now A,B,C !  I guess thats part of the deal with this condition right?

Its crazy, since I've been aware of this forum, and relating to my wife with this knowledge in place, it has been both good and bad .  Good in some ways, that I'm not taking the exchanges as personally as in the past.  Bad in that it makes me think there's no real long term chance for a substantive relationship here - and we are 8 YEARS in !#@%@#%?

Had this awesome interaction this morning in bed that went like this:

deflated: " Spend 10 minutes - show me I'm a priority in your life"

wife: " I'm too busy, you can have 5"

... .

that ended up with

wife: "You're a f**** ass" and silent treatment for remainder of day.

So I'm thinking about it later while I'm doing the garden [ wife too busy to help], cleaning the house [wife too busy to help] etc, and thinking what the heck ? Wouldnt a normal response to the original question about the 10 minutes be completely different to this?  like "sorry I'm so busy , will make it up to you " ? Not a debate on the number of minutes that are appropriate, and whether I've got 'insecurities' that lead me to say things like that? Followed by a "its your fault, you're an ass" and silent treatment?

ARRGHHHH... . Anyway, guess I needed to vent that out.  I'm really intrigued what's going to happen with this psychologist.  Kind of hope it goes well one way or the other .  By that I mean : either she's able to somehow break through and get constructive things happening ( a ray of hope?) OR somehow she can prod toward an amicable ( or dare I say "safe" parting of ways.  I know it wont stay amicable, but it would be nice to be able to exit stage left without potential financial / career / social annihilation occurring at the hands of my wife... .

[gary seven]

Deflated:

It's an awful thing to say, but welcome to the un-merry-go-round (which is how I see it) with a spouse with BPD.

I talk to my T about the ups and downs, and by having learned to set boundaries,   I am actually able to see a bit clearer and sometimes even anticipate the next cycle (up or down, in or out).

It takes me a lot of energy and self-control and support from my closest friends to keep focused.  She would be horrified to know I have confidences outside of our marriage: that is to say I have a few close people I share this story with.  It blows their minds to hear it; I have kept it hidden for 11 years.

Shortly we are going to embark on another try at MC.  I assented the last time, and I think I got something out of it, however she made a new enemy to hate.

As one spends some time looking at all the facets of the boards--even ones you don't think are relevant--you can begin to absorb the sense of the many facets of this illness/condition/disorder, and you may see some of your exact story repeated here by another person... . makes it very eerie, but affirming that you are not wrong for having your feelings.

Like when I read about your garden:  I have the same problem in the garden at my house that my kids and I made.  She'd rather sit out on the patio and smoke than get involved, despite all of our invitations.

[deflated]

Gary 7

Eerie - that is definitely one way to describe it.  I just feel so naive.  I have a very close friend who's an MD , who in the early days of our relationship said to me that she has 'borderline traits'.  I was so stupid- I thought he meant 'behaviours that are on the border of being something significant'.  I never looked into it any more.  And then I find these boards and eerie is EXACTLY how I'd describe things .   I've spoken to him since and realized the error of my ways. 

So many stories that just line up with exactly what I'm seeing or have seen over the years.

As I sit here in bed with my wife asleep in the other room following what has to be the world's worst attempt at a marriage counselling session, what I really dont understand is her response.  No desire to talk about the session. No desire to talk about anything.  Just ANGER .  So angry she cant even talk to me.  Its nuts.  I've been with her for 8years. Only two days ago I spent an hour dragging her back from the edge over a fight she had with her "best friend" - a fight which was started because the friend dared to ask her to _not_ detonate on a shop assistant at a local store over a perceived potential sleight .  That session took about an hour, she went through all the tears, anger, "my friend is going to leave me routine" ... . and now BOOM ! its me thats the problem.  (again).

I mean... with this MC session I expected some resistance from her, some assertion of a desire from both of us to make things work, some statement of what we see as worth saving and what we like about things.  None of that happened.  No sign whatsoever of a lightbulb moment where she might see anything wrong from her side ...   Nothing. Just "f*** you its your fault".  What a waste of time (the 8 years, not the 1 hr to demonstrate it succinctly... )

[gary seven]

Deflated:

We had our first session last week.

I was very hesitant and somewhat guarded, but participatory and pleasant. 

Then we took a family vacation to the beach for the holiday.  The last vacation over Thanksgiving blew up.  This one only a small eruption or two.  Mostly quiet, and mostly kid-focused.

She was saving the big issues for nighttime: I wrote them down to share with MC at our next visit. 

Read slowly so you can see the blamer (her)  blaming the blame (me), in traditional BPD style:

"You (me) let my Dad move all of the basement contents while I (she )was in the hospital that destroyed all my (her) organization "

"The whole house is an absolute mess and why am I (she) wasting time at a program when I (she again) could be doing all the things I (she again again) need to be un-doing at home?"

"You (me) writing a list of things to discuss these issues is a waste of time."

And I can empathize about trying to control their rages in public: we had the misfortune of being thrown out of one town because she crossed the line.  Literally.

On her more minor rages, I am sorry to say if I got a chance to breathe while she pounded on someone else, I sort of let her go at it.  I know that isn't the right thing to do, but how much can a person take?