Validation

[SlyQQ]

Just watched the validation video do this all the time ( years ) without much success often BPD need the emotional turmoil ( they become addicted to it a little like soldiers can  and regardless of what tact you use they will explode because they want/need to he does not adress this at all and somehow implies there is some simple technique to manage it ( i have found calming validation understanding just leads to a worse explosion because they want to be yelled at, hasnt your BPD said something like hit me to you when all her other avenues have failed ) or will just goes aways an cuts herself because she needs the emotional outlet and validtion does not provide it, what i am trying to say is there is a lot missing here

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[tristesse]

HI Slyqq

I think some BPD's it works  beautifully for, depending upon the severity of the illness. My DD is like yours, validation does not usually help, occasionally it is successful, but like you expressed, she seems to need to the rage, she needs to be yelled at, she needs that outlet. In answer to your question about, does she ever say things like, just hit me. YES, she practically begs, she tries to draw me in, she will even do something like scream in my face and poke me, or destroy something by smashing it, anything to get me to engage in physical battle.

So I believe there are pieces missing too, but all we can do is the best that we can with what we have to work with. It is exhausting, I know and understand, but if we give up, what do our children have?

[SlyQQ]

yes well there is a WORLD of difference between a highly emotional / dysregulated person an BPD a lot of people get confused though one of the tennants of BPD is no one understands me you dont know who i am plus if you are currently devalued or black your validation will sound like hitler saying i see where you are coming from it is a wonderful technique for non BPDs for BPDs it is like playing with a loaded gun

[pessim-optimist]

I hear your frustrations and I agree that it all depends on the particular person w/BPD and what/how they respond to, it also very much depends on the particular situation you are facing with them. Sometimes it's time to walk away rather than to inflame the situation with attempts to validate.

Validation is only one of the many tools. A very important one, yes, however, if you've got yourself a hammer, great, not everything is a nail to be hammered, though. You may need pliers, measuring tape, a screw-driver etc.

In addition, some people w/BPD are in so much pain that they want to be heard and they don't notice if our deliverance is perfect or clumsy. Other people w/BPD tend to see right through the 'formula' we are using and they need much more finesse for us to be successful.

It does take time to learn when and how to apply validation, give yourself the time and patience that you need... .

And - last but not least: give yourself the credit for having found the situations in which validation doesn't work - that's half the work!

[SlyQQ]

Yes have learnt all the tools the hard way an a lot of the time nothing works was trying to help other people because there is nothing in the video pointing out the obvious flaws and that a deeper understanding (as you pointed out ) is required to have some success validation is very dodgy

[pessim-optimist]

Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing, is this the video you are talking about?

https://bpdfamily.blogspot.com/2013/06/validation-encouraging-peace-in-BPD.html

The above one is presented by Alan Fruzzetti, Ph.D. who is a clinical psychologist and some of his main focuses are BPD and validation.

[SlyQQ]

PHDs are a dime a dozen he needs to qualify his statements 

[Aussie JJ]

I'll try here,

When first starting out with validation, it is hard to 'get' the feeling that is  being expressed, is it afraid, scared, anger?

For myself I am seeing someone who i think i scared of XYZ, what if the underlying emotion is anger that they are suppressing, I validate them being scared?

This is a double whammy, your validating the wrong emotion and that will cause anger to get more and more pronounced. 

"I get that your feeling scared at the moment and that's ok", as opposed to, "I get that your feeling angry at the moment and that's ok."

What have we just done, we have invalidated the FEELING.  feelings = facts to a pwBPD.  Automatically this can trigger a rage, escalation as we have not understood the feeling that is beign expressed, we have tried and that can be seen however to the pwBPD we are talking to we have just told them what to FEEL. 

Sometimes when this occurs we do make the situations worse.  *raises hand*

As below, they are tools, a tool also might be the statement I have seen on the staying board a lot, "Help me understand what your feeling at the moment?" 

Something that is going to also cause conflict as you don't get it, with time hopefully they will express those feelings better and you can validate better.  Sometimes this just doesn't work, use another tool, walk away, disengage, don't enable the behaviour of being yelled at. 

Each to there own, validation has been found to be one of the core things that is required to assist a pwBPD to express themselves in a more articulate manner.  In therapy the psychologists are trained and have years dealing with these specific scenarios.  We are friends/family/partners.  It takes practise to understand and implement however validation is maybe a better tool to use when calm as opposed to deregulated to start with. 

Hope this helps. 


AJJ.

[js friend]

Slyqq~ this is sucha good question about validation and pwBPD trying to goad us to get the confrontation.Im glad you brought it up.

My dd19 is more receptive to validation when she is calm and she has come to me or I can see that something is troubling her. I have often used it during phone conversations and it has worked very well then to soothe her, but at other times when she is just looking for an argument or when  she is dsyregulated i find that validation doesnt work at all, if anything it just winds her up even more.My dd doesnt cut or threaten sucide. I think she is like your dd and gets some excitment from causing emtional turmoil.She has become an emotional bully. I believe that she gets her emotional release and thrills this way because she once said to a friend that going down the wrong path often looks more exciting and "being good is boring" so it says it all.

Sometimes I think she cant go a day with arguing with someone... .anyone will do. Usually it is exbf, but if he isnt available it can be just about anyone. She will try to goad me or anyone else nearby into an argument with her, or try to get them literally to pick sides and If she sees that I wont carry on the conversation because it is getting us nowhere, she will often resort to attack mode and begin to  make personal remarks about me.She talks about how she is being disrespected all the time, yet has no trouble being crossing others boundries and being abusive to others most of the time and never thinks about their feelings.If her young children are upset she will even tell them that they are being  "silly" "dramaqueens" and "big babies"  so they have no validation from her taking their feelings into account which is another thing that often worries me.

... .And  her favourite thing to do at the moment. If she is not gettnig the response she wants from me is to mimic me. She soes it to my face  when she is trying to provoke me into an argument. She will start elaboratory coping my voice and facial expression to get a response

... .yet SHES the one who talks about being disrespected