Think I'm going to drop some bombs tomorrow

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I think I could be joining the Leaving board soon. 

I agreed to see my BPbf tomorrow night for dinner.  It will be the first time in exactly 3 weeks since I've seen him.  Today I send him an e-mail asking him why he had asked me to dinner with him.

He send a text to ask if he can call me.  I've had him on my reject list since 13 November.  23/24 I've had my phone offline.  There are over 20 rejected calls from him when it was online.  An hour or so after he asked if he can talk to me, I agreed but told him that I am not very talkative.

He phoned immediately.  It was 7 minutes of not much of anything really.  It was hard for me to talk to him again after 3 weeks of doing relatively well without him and his crap.  He told me that there was no hidden agenda for him wanting to take me to dinner and that "nothing has changed in my life since I last saw you". < I didn't ask if it had.  He said he got my e-mail last week (I suggested therapy) and wanted to make sure we are "on the same page".  I asked him what he means by that and he then asked me "what do you want from me?  What do you hope to get from this?" This is once again his classic BPD speak for "I don't want this relationship" and "We're just friends"  I've heard it before.  It is also his way of keeping his options open in a way that won't make him feel like the bad guy the day his ex should divorce and come back to him (fat chance) or his fantasy girl should fall for him (not unless he wins the lottory).

I am going to try to make it for dinner tomorrow night, but I might find the whole thing too upsetting and not see him at all.

The bomb I am going to drop is to let him know that I have seen his browser history and that he goes to his ex's facebook every day and sometimes 2-3 times a day (they aren't facebook friends).  It's almost 5 years since they broke up.  How much longer is he going to go on like this?  Seems to me as long as he is breathing.  He's obsessed.

I am also going to let him know that I opened his ipad 3 weeks ago and saw that he had been watching a porn video of a girl that looks like his fantasy girl/ex housemate.  He's been looking at this particular video throughout the whole year (since she moved out). How many guys watch the same porn video that many times?  He is obsessed with her and even more obsessed with his ex and has been watching pregnant porn now that she is expecting (although I won't bring that up).

Dinner is going to be interesting. He will probably serve me confusion for starters and crap and lies for the main course.  Followed by gaslighting for dessert.  I'm not looking forward to it.  Truthfully, I am scared.  Not just of his reaction, but also my own as I've kept a lot in for a long time.

Last week I mentioned to him in an e-mail that I think it is time for him to consider going for therapy and maybe also change his anti-depressant.  No reply to that.  He will wake up to an email tomorrow telling him that if I do join him for dinner it could well be the last time he will ever see me as everything is now so messed up that I just don't know if I'll ever have any good feelings towards him again.

What kind of an reaction can I expect from him?  Are there any particular words I should avoid using?  Really needing advice.

[Perdita]

I think I could be joining the Leaving board soon. 

I agreed to see my BPbf tomorrow night for dinner.  It will be the first time in exactly 3 weeks since I've seen him.  Today I send him an e-mail asking him why he had asked me to dinner with him.

He send a text to ask if he can call me.  I've had him on my reject list since 13 November.  23/24 I've had my phone offline.  There are over 20 rejected calls from him when it was online.  An hour or so after he asked if he can talk to me, I agreed but told him that I am not very talkative.

He phoned immediately.  It was 7 minutes of not much of anything really.  It was hard for me to talk to him again after 3 weeks of doing relatively well without him and his crap.  He told me that there was no hidden agenda for him wanting to take me to dinner and that "nothing has changed in my life since I last saw you". < I didn't ask if it had.  He said he got my e-mail last week (I suggested therapy) and wanted to make sure we are "on the same page".  I asked him what he means by that and he then asked me "what do you want from me?  What do you hope to get from this?" This is once again his classic BPD speak for "I don't want this relationship" and "We're just friends"  I've heard it before.  It is also his way of keeping his options open in a way that won't make him feel like the bad guy the day his ex should divorce and come back to him (fat chance) or his fantasy girl should fall for him (not unless he wins the lottory).

I am going to try to make it for dinner tomorrow night, but I might find the whole thing too upsetting and not see him at all.

The bomb I am going to drop is to let him know that I have seen his browser history and that he goes to his ex's facebook every day and sometimes 2-3 times a day (they aren't facebook friends).  It's almost 5 years since they broke up.  How much longer is he going to go on like this?  Seems to me as long as he is breathing.  He's obsessed.

I am also going to let him know that I opened his ipad 3 weeks ago and saw that he had been watching a porn video of a girl that looks like his fantasy girl/ex housemate.  He's been looking at this particular video throughout the whole year (since she moved out). How many guys watch the same porn video that many times?  He is obsessed with her and even more obsessed with his ex and has been watching pregnant porn now that she is expecting (although I won't bring that up).

Dinner is going to be interesting. He will probably serve me confusion for starters and crap and lies for the main course.  Followed by gaslighting for dessert.  I'm not looking forward to it.  Truthfully, I am scared.  Not just of his reaction, but also my own as I've kept a lot in for a long time.

Last week I mentioned to him in an e-mail that I think it is time for him to consider going for therapy and maybe also change his anti-depressant.  No reply to that.  He will wake up to an email tomorrow telling him that if I do join him for dinner it could well be the last time he will ever see me as everything is now so messed up that I just don't know if I'll ever have any good feelings towards him again.

What kind of an reaction can I expect from him?  Are there any particular words I should avoid using?  Really needing advice.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Perdita,

You might want to pause before confirming your dinner plans in order to ask yourself why you accepted his invitation in the first place.  I could be wrong, but I sense that you are avoiding the real issue.  Are you searching for an excuse to break up with him?  If so, why do you need an excuse?  Perhaps it would be worthwhile to sit with your feelings to see if you can discern what is really going on.

LuckyJim

[Perdita]

Hi LuckyJim,

No, I am not looking for an excuse.  If you've been reading my posts then you'll know that I actually have plenty of reason to break up with him.  What has pushed me over the edge 3 weeks ago was when he drove 4-5 hours to go see his fantasy girl and has been covering it up.  98% of our arguments have been about him and the time he spends alone with this gold digging tramp.  The first 7 months of our r/s I never even thought anything strange about him taking her to breakfast every weekend ALONE or even their dinners nor the fact that he would buy her little gifts all the time (only started to buy me gifts in January after she moved out of town).  I was being the stupidly "cool" gf that didn't want to be the type to say "hell, no, stop taking her out". 

BPD is bad enough without having to deal with fantasy obsessions.  I'm tired of being hurt and humiliated over and over again and nothing ever changes.  Of course, he insists that she's just like a "sister" to him and that it's crazy for me to think he's not over his ex.  I never had proof before, now I do.  Sister my A$$.

[Lucky Jim]

Perdita, If that's the way you really feel, then what is stopping you from breaking up with him?  LJ

[Perdita]

LuckyJim,

Nothing is stopping me and by tomorrow this time I might well have done it.  I guess I am just anxious about how it will go down. 

[vortex of confusion]

Nothing is stopping me and by tomorrow this time I might well have done it.  I guess I am just anxious about how it will go down. 

I wouldn't bother bringing up the stuff about the Ipad or videos or obsessions if you intend on breaking it off. Prepare yourself to break it off and leave it at that. If you bring up too much stuff, you will give him fodder to chew on, twist, and then spit back at you.

Make up your mind how you want things to go and then try to prepare yourself mentally.

[harbour]

Nothing is stopping me and by tomorrow this time I might well have done it.  I guess I am just anxious about how it will go down.

I wouldn't bother bringing up the stuff about the Ipad or videos or obsessions if you intend on breaking it off. Prepare yourself to break it off and leave it at that. If you bring up too much stuff, you will give him fodder to chew on, twist, and then spit back at you.

Make up your mind how you want things to go and then try to prepare yourself mentally.

Totally agree!

What is the point in bringing up and discussing these issues, if you've had enough anyway. If you do that it may seem that you still have hope he will change and are willing to give him another chance. How many chances after that? You have been nice and tolerant and put aside your own needs to keep it going for how long, two years? Maybe it is about time you start being nice and true to yourself. If you go on in a relationship where you have to put yourself aside to keep it going, then the time will come when there is not much left of you, and then you don't have more to give. And when you get out of it, it may take years and years to recover.

[Samuel S.]

Perdita, you have found proof that he is obsessive with his porn and other signs of BPD in this guy. When you mentioned about his need to get therapy, his reply was no reply. In other words, his reply is no, or he does not want to admit it to himself or you, that he needs therapy.

It just seems that he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to have his distractions and to play a cat and mouse game with you, which is totally unfair to you.

My heart goes out to you! You deserve a quality relationship which is obviously he is unable to supply!

There is also another way to look at your situation. He probably would not want to have a relationship with someone who is exactly like he is!

[Perdita]

Thank you everyone for the replies. 

It just seems that he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to have his distractions and to play a cat and mouse game with you, which is totally unfair to you.

Samuel, I have to put the gold star on your forehead for this one.  It is so spot on what you say. 

Well, I did see him.  ":)inner" was McDonald's drive thru.    I didn't order.  Can't believe I dressed so nicely for McD.  Soon became obvious why we weren't going for a proper dinner.  His fantasy girl was in town until recently and as per usual his salary has been spend on her.   Old story this.  Some good news though is that her drug habit has been exposed and finally her innocent church girl act is done with.  It is such a relief to know that everyone can now see that I have not been the crazy one all this time when saying she leads a double life. Big down side is that he has been talking to her "a lot" since she got out of rehab.  Helping the damsel in distress.   I have a nasty feeling that she is going to be moving back in with him once more because he told me it won't bother him if I do start seeing other guys.  Really? 

I confronted him about her once again and he tried to gaslight me as usual.  I mentioned the porn video and although he was surprised he did NOT deny that he was watching that particular porn because the girl looks like his fantasy girl.  I don't think he realized how much he revealed when he said he would never want to sleep with her "because she'll just drive me crazy".  He added, "It's like Pamela Anderson.  Every man would love to f*** her, but won't if they actually had the opportunity.     Sounds to me like he was saying "I want to, but I know she'll be too much of a hassle".  Great.  I feel so much better . . . NOT.

Then I dropped the big one.  His obsession with his ex.  Now this really got him, because Mr Smooth Talker suddenly was speechless.  We were driving the whole time and when I mentioned this, he just couldn't look me in the face at all.  He turned his face away and was looking out the car window.  This went on for about 15 minutes.  It took him about 15 minutes before he finally tried to smooth talk me about this too, but he did a lousy job at it and I could tell that even he knew it.  I asked him if he feels he never got closure with her and he didn't answer.  When I asked him how he feels about her now he claimed that he feels "nothing".  Then the gaslighting.  He tried to convince me that I am reading something into nothing.  Really, visiting her facebook everyday even though you broke up 5 years ago?  I know I really caught him off guard with this.

Then he pulled the same thing he did a year ago.  He told me that I will always "find something" and spin it around in my head into something that it is not.     Meaning the thing with his ex and fantasy girl.  Really, I am imagining things?  No, I think I have been too spot on about too many things and this must scare him half to death.  I should have been a PI.

The thing that really upset me throughout this was when I asked him if I am more important to him that his fantasy girl considering that she has always just used him while I have always done everything I could for him.  Also, considering his relationship with me had been intimate and he didn't have this with her.  I asked "who have you shared more of yourself with".  He wanted to know "Emotionally?"  I said "yes" and he replied "you".  I felt like punching him when he said that "you both mean a lot to me".    

I mentioned to him about last year when he had a very bad accident and I moved in to help him 24/7 the first 3 weeks and did everything for him non-stop around the clock while she refused to help out by even washing a damn spoon for him (literally).  Then as soon as he was able to go out I sat at home while he took her to dinner.  His reply to me tonight about this?  "So what's wrong with that?"  I said "I did all the hard work for 3 weeks, but then she got the reward".  He just said "Well, she didn't have to do anything for me to take her to dinner".  He just doesn't get it.  Please can someone tell me if I am being unreasonable for being hurt by what he did?  :'(

I am glad I got this off my chest, because I've been carrying this around the whole year and it's been slowly killing me.  It amazes me how much of my feelings for him have changed.  I look at him so differently now.  Being on this board and taking a 3 week break from him has really lifted the fog for me in a huge way. 

The whole time I was with him today (about 90 minutes) I was thinking about all of you and felt strong in the knowledge that I have support here.  Thank you!  

[vortex of confusion]

I mentioned to him about last year when he had a very bad accident and I moved in to help him 24/7 the first 3 weeks and did everything for him non-stop around the clock while she refused to help out by even washing a damn spoon for him (literally).  Then as soon as he was able to go out I sat at home while he took her to dinner.  His reply to me tonight about this?  "So what's wrong with that?"  I said "I did all the hard work for 3 weeks, but then she got the reward".  He just said "Well, she didn't have to do anything for me to take her to dinner".  He just doesn't get it.  Please can someone tell me if I am being unreasonable for being hurt by what he did?  :'(

You are not crazy and you are not being unreasonable. It is perfectly reasonable to be hurt by that. I hate it when they say and do things that make us feel crazy or unreasonable.

I had a similar situation around our anniversary (before I discovered these boards) and have questioned whether or not I was justified in being upset. The back story is that we had experimented with an open relationship. Our anniversary was coming up so I told him that all I wanted for him to plan a date and take me on a date. I originally asked him to arrange babysitting too. The girls and I worked it out with my mom so he was off the hook for that once again. Anyway, his "plan" was to take me to dinner and the thrift store. But, he didn't pick a restaurant. We spent 20 minutes going back and forth about where to eat. And then, the whole time the discussion was about our relationship and it predominantly negative. Not two days later, he finds out that one of his online female friends is going to be in town. He got so excited about it and all he could talk about was where to meet her and what they were going to do and whether or not they would get physical. I was livid. He ended up not meeting up with her but he seemed perplexed as to why I would be upset. Frankly, I began to question whether or not I was being reasonable. Open relationship or not, I found his going on and on about this other woman to be very rude and very insensitive. I was accused of having a double standard and a whole bunch of other crap. It is amazing the things that they say and do to get us to question ourselves. There have been so many times that he has made me feel like I was being completely unreasonable when the facts were that I was actually being pretty cool about it all.

[Perdita]

Not two days later, he finds out that one of his online female friends is going to be in town. He got so excited about it and all he could talk about was where to meet her and what they were going to do and whether or not they would get physical. I was livid. He ended up not meeting up with her but he seemed perplexed as to why I would be upset. Frankly, I began to question whether or not I was being reasonable. Open relationship or not, I found his going on and on about this other woman to be very rude and very insensitive.

 WOW, Vortex!    I've never been in an open r/s (well, I only found out later that I was . . .), but I know this was terribly insensitive of him especially with the anniversary.  I'd be livid too.  In fact, that's what I thought even before I got to the part were you say "I was livid".  I've seen this in mine too.  How excited he gets about his fantasy girl.  It is so hurtful to not be appreciated and respected.  This seems to be one of the most common threads with BPD: they don't see how much we do for them or they do but just don't care.

I was accused of having a double standard and a whole bunch of other crap. It is amazing the things that they say and do to get us to question ourselves. There have been so many times that he has made me feel like I was being completely unreasonable when the facts were that I was actually being pretty cool about it all.

The double standard comment had me going     I've come to the realization that mine probably isn't capable of seeing my side in any situation.  I guess most or all of them are like this. 

Hope you are doing OK, Vortex. 

[Perdita]

Sidenote:



Harbour, your inbox is too full to receive new messages.  You need to delete some messages first. 

[vortex of confusion]

 WOW, Vortex!    I've never been in an open r/s (well, I only found out later that I was . . .), but I know this was terribly insensitive of him especially with the anniversary.  I'd be livid too.  In fact, that's what I thought even before I got to the part were you say "I was livid".  I've seen this in mine too.  How excited he gets about his fantasy girl.  It is so hurtful to not be appreciated and respected.  This seems to be one of the most common threads with BPD: they don't see how much we do for them or they do but just don't care.

I have never quite understood that disconnect. I don't know any woman or man that wouldn't get a little jealous if their partner got that excited over somebody that wasn't you. I am not a jealous person as a rule but some of the things that my husband has done has sent me over the top and has made me wonder if I am just and unreasonable and jealous person. Am I being too possessive? Am I unreasonable? What is wrong with me? He acts like it is all so normal and that I must be really messed up and confused to be so upset.

The double standard comment had me going     I've come to the realization that mine probably isn't capable of seeing my side in any situation.  I guess most or all of them are like this. 

Hope you are doing OK, Vortex. 

I think they pay lip service to everything and try to put on an act but underneath it all they are incapable of connecting the dots.

I am okay. I am trying to process all of the things over the years that I told myself I was being unreasonable about when the reality is that I wasn't being unreasonable at all. I had lots of facts to back up my feelings. I wasn't pulling stuff out of my butt because I am just another unreasonable and insecure woman. I am still with my husband but am slowly trying to detach and make an exit plan. It will take time as we have 4 daughters.

[Perdita]

I have never quite understood that disconnect. I don't know any woman or man that wouldn't get a little jealous if their partner got that excited over somebody that wasn't you. I am not a jealous person as a rule but some of the things that my husband has done has sent me over the top and has made me wonder if I am just and unreasonable and jealous person. Am I being too possessive? Am I unreasonable? What is wrong with me? He acts like it is all so normal and that I must be really messed up and confused to be so upset.

Exactly the same with mine.  His behaviour and thinking on this is so outrageous, but he acts as though it is perfectly normal and what the heck is wrong with ME! 

I have also never been a jealous person.  They trigger this stuff in us and then they step back and ask "what's wrong with you?"  Go through that over a long enough time period and we all start asking ourselves "what is wrong with me?"  That right there is when they gain the upper hand and we lose our power in the r/s.

Vortex, there is nothing wrong with you and there is nothing wrong with me.  We gave our hearts expecting the same in return and instead they handed us ice.  :'(

I think they pay lip service to everything and try to put on an act but underneath it all they are incapable of connecting the dots.

I think you might be right.

I am okay. I am trying to process all of the things over the years that I told myself I was being unreasonable about when the reality is that I wasn't being unreasonable at all. I had lots of facts to back up my feelings. I wasn't pulling stuff out of my butt because I am just another unreasonable and insecure woman. I am still with my husband but am slowly trying to detach and make an exit plan. It will take time as we have 4 daughters.

I think the more we realize something is wrong and actually verbalize it to them and then back it up with facts . . . well, this is when they seem to graduate from BPD school and show us what they are really made of.

Vortex, keep working on your exit plan.  You will get there one day and I look forward to reading about it.