Suicide threats

[Parents! Get help here!]

My 29 year old BPD daughter threw a mega tantrum today because I had invited my other daughter and her family to stay overnight as they had a very early appointment in the morning (they live out of town). It got worse and worse until she started threatening suicide, having already asked me why I didn't just kill her now since I seemed so determined that that was what I wanted to happen. I ought to say that my other daughter has indeed been horrid to her in the past so she has some basis for antipathy. I'm afraid that by the time the suicide threats came I already felt I could hardly cope with any more emotional pressure and asked my other daughter if she'd mind not staying after all. Was I wrong to do that? How much pressure should I be prepared to endure before giving in? I felt I just wasn't coping at all but now feel a failure because of having given in. Or was I in fact doing the right thing? How do I know?

PS I posted this before but I think I put on the wrong discussion board. Sorry, I'm a bit new to this still.

[Danae]

My 29 year old BPD daughter threw a mega tantrum today because I had invited my other daughter and her family to stay overnight as they had a very early appointment in the morning (they live out of town). It got worse and worse until she started threatening suicide, having already asked me why I didn't just kill her now since I seemed so determined that that was what I wanted to happen. I ought to say that my other daughter has indeed been horrid to her in the past so she has some basis for antipathy. I'm afraid that by the time the suicide threats came I already felt I could hardly cope with any more emotional pressure and asked my other daughter if she'd mind not staying after all. Was I wrong to do that? How much pressure should I be prepared to endure before giving in? I felt I just wasn't coping at all but now feel a failure because of having given in. Or was I in fact doing the right thing? How do I know?

PS I posted this before but I think I put on the wrong discussion board. Sorry, I'm a bit new to this still.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Butterflygirl]

I have to remind myself over and over again that my son is a sick person. He has been using the guilt card since he was four years old. "Mom, why can't I get new shoes like my friend. Don't you love me?" That was just round one. He is now 44.

Walking on eggshells is a great analogy. We can either save ourselves and send our children on there way, or we can carve out enough alone time to recharge our batteries and go back into the trenches once again. I am saving my money to go to Switzerland again. I have to go that far to get away from his threats of suicide. I no longer worry that he will do it. I do understand that he really does feel like dying. But he is 44 and gone through hell. If he hasn't done it by now he is not going to

Put as much time and money as you can into re-charging your batteries. I had a friend who had 10 children and actually sold her house and moved where they could not find her. She is my role model. [They tracked her down after about 5 years.]

My prayers are with you.

Butterfly Girl

[meantcorn34]

Hi Danae,

I think that being a mom to both your daughters by remaining neutral is a good lesson for each of them. Giving in to tantrums can seem like the best and easiest option with my son , but doesn't help either one of us really. My therapist tells me that no one else in my son's life will ever let him treat them the way he does me, and if he tries, he will lose everyone and/or go to jail. So not allowing my son to manipulate me is the gift that will keep on giving long after I am gone.

Still a work in progress.

[meantcorn34]

Can't figure out how to edit or add on so here I am again. I didn't mean to leave out the suicide threat. When my son threatens suicide, almost always when he doesn't get his way, I ask if he needs to go to Crisis and prepare to drive him there, but I do not give in to his manipulation. He usually says never mind and that's the end of it.

I can't speak to your daughter's situation, whether she has attempted before, etc. You are the expert. I can only share my experience.

[lbjnltx]

Hi Danae,

I'm sorry that you are in the middle between your 2 daughters.  Giving into demands after threats of suicide teaches that if they threaten we will give in... .not something we want to reinforce.

It  sounds like you may need to spend some time learning about boundaries to protect yourself and limits to protect your daughter from herself.

Communicating Boundaries and Limits

If you are ever truly concerned that she will follow through on a threat this information is valuable:

Tools:  Dealing with threats of suicide and suicide attempts

lbj

[Danae]

Thank you for your replies. I find that in theory I completely agree that I shouldn't give in. But in practice, how does one cope with the pressure of the moment when it is all so intense and the threats so real? My daughter says the worst moments of her life are when I walk out on her when she is feeling like this because it convinces her that she has a genuine reason for feeling hopeless and abandoned, and every time I do it just increases her conviction that life is not worth living. Her parting shot to me last night when I said I'll see you in the morning was that she might not be there - said with hopelessness, not anger. In fact I slept on her floor to prove that I took her seriously (I've never done this before but felt that she was she shouldn't be left. It was that or call emergency services).

[lbjnltx]

Thank you for your replies. I find that in theory I completely agree that I shouldn't give in. But in practice, how does one cope with the pressure of the moment when it is all so intense and the threats so real?

When we have these kinds of situations we have options Danae.  Using skills before a situation goes into crisis is the best way before.

Validate her feelings.

Use SET statements if/when our boundaries are challenged.

Ask validating questions.

Enforce boundaries.

If a threat to harm is present call crisis personnel: hotline, predetermined safe person, 911.

If applicable take her to ER.   

My daughter says the worst moments of her life are when I walk out on her when she is feeling like this because it convinces her that she has a genuine reason for feeling hopeless and abandoned, and every time I do it just increases her conviction that life is not worth living.

Can you set boundaries to enforce in these situations? 

Her parting shot to me last night when I said I'll see you in the morning was that she might not be there - said with hopelessness, not anger. In fact I slept on her floor to prove that I took her seriously (I've never done this before but felt that she was she shouldn't be left. It was that or call emergency services).

Emotional blackmail is not ok Danae, it keeps you both stuck in an unhealthy cycle.

Are you and/or your daughter in therapy?

lbj

[madmom]

I wondered the same thing, are you and your daughter in therapy together?   I too have a daughter, and at times have slept in a bed with her, had her sleep on the floor of my room by my husband and I's bed out of fear of what she might do.  We did family counseling and that helped us communicate better and set up boundaries, crisis plans etc.   The emotions and fears for our children are so hard to deal with and the idea of one wrong move and maybe they won't be here anymore keeps us caught in a vicious trap of illness.    Please let us know how things turn out.  We are here to offer you help and support.

[Danae]

Thank you for your helpful replies. They've been really encouraging as have some of the resources on the website about boundaries, triangulation etc. Since I wrote that piece she seems to have stopped for now on the suicide bit and instead is now trying to pull me apart for all sorts of supposed misdemeanours. Where I could see I had done something wrong, unwise or insensitive, I apologised but tried not to go beyond that where she was making wild accusations (though I'm sure I did say more than I should have). However, she refuses to accept any apology and says I'm  totally out of control, schizophrenic, nasty, cruel, disgusting etc etc . She refuses any apology because according to her it is not genuine, or my tone of voice or body language or the words I use are wrong (the reason seems to change constantly). I've received three pages of emails about how awful I am as well as about 100 venomous texts over the last of day or so, all telling me how dreadful I am and how long am I going to keep up this charade and prevent her having her life back. It's all completely loopy of course and I'm just so exhausted all I can really do is just ensure she has what she needs and go away again (she's been largely stuck in her room for months). Yes, she is seeing a therapist but refuses to have any medication. I have a number of people I talk to as necessary including a family therapist who I'm seeing again tomorrow to try and sort some of this stuff out. My daughter refuses to take part in family therapy although we tried a few sessions last year, but I think I'll go along tomorrow armed with all the texts and emails I've received so the therapist can see what's going on.

[Kate4queen]

Thank you for your helpful replies. They've been really encouraging as have some of the resources on the website about boundaries, triangulation etc. Since I wrote that piece she seems to have stopped for now on the suicide bit and instead is now trying to pull me apart for all sorts of supposed misdemeanours. Where I could see I had done something wrong, unwise or insensitive, I apologised but tried not to go beyond that where she was making wild accusations (though I'm sure I did say more than I should have). However, she refuses to accept any apology and says I'm  totally out of control, schizophrenic, nasty, cruel, disgusting etc etc . She refuses any apology because according to her it is not genuine, or my tone of voice or body language or the words I use are wrong (the reason seems to change constantly). I've received three pages of emails about how awful I am as well as about 100 venomous texts over the last of day or so, all telling me how dreadful I am and how long am I going to keep up this charade and prevent her having her life back. It's all completely loopy of course and I'm just so exhausted all I can really do is just ensure she has what she needs and go away again (she's been largely stuck in her room for months). Yes, she is seeing a therapist but refuses to have any medication. I have a number of people I talk to as necessary including a family therapist who I'm seeing again tomorrow to try and sort some of this stuff out. My daughter refuses to take part in family therapy although we tried a few sessions last year, but I think I'll go along tomorrow armed with all the texts and emails I've received so the therapist can see what's going on.

Oh wow, this sounds just like what my son used to do. It was so overwhelming and I was just so afraid all the time that I couldn't see anything past trying desperately to put out fires, stop him upsetting his siblings and my husband, and just keep everything quiet. Of course it didn't work because every time I gave way on something or attempted to argue or defend myself he'd just come back with another load of issues.

I read and I learned that actually what he was doing was reflecting all his issues back on me. Once that became obvious-and with the help of a therapist, I learned not to get engaged and to try and stop getting drawn into his panic and drama.

Deep breaths, taking time to think through my response, not responding immediately-gave me the breathing space to quietly put my boundaries in place.

Of course things escalated when we did that because he was so terrified, but we stuck to our guns, refused to accept all his issues were ours, attempted to validate him and gradually detached.

It's not easy, but you have a right to peace and to set boundaries for yourself. The fear, obligation and guilt our kids throw at us makes us panic as well. You have to step back and out of it. It won't help either of you if you jump in and drown alongside them.

[MammaMia]

Oh yes,my son does the exact same thing to demean me.  We cannot take it personally, as it is part of the disorder.  PwBPD project on to us all the hatred they feel for themselves.  By telling us we are worthless, stupid, incompetent, and incapable of love, they feel better about themselves.  My son has even told me how I have Munchausen by Proxy.  I am mentally ill and trying to get attention and sympathy by PRETENDING he is SICK... .but fortunately, EVERYONE is able to see through my facade, and they all KNOW I AM THE CRAZY ONE, not him. There are times I wish I could laugh out loud at his accusations. Problem is, it is so incredibly sad that he really believes this, that it is not funny.

I have found the best way to handle these outbursts is to say nothing. Just listen. Above all, do not argue with a person who has BPD. It is futile. If forced into conversation, I just say something like "I am sorry you feel that way" and let it go.  

This mental illness is so bizarre. Interestingly, the message, right down to the actual wording, is so similar between different pwBPD, that it is scary. Like they are all using the same script. This is a cruel disorder, and IT is in control of our loved ones.

When it comes to threats of suicide, we need to be cautious. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to separate fact from fiction here.  When in doubt, call for help.  It is good to document these threats with law enforcement who can also provide transportation to an emergency room, if necessary.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Dear Danae

I have read all the replies and you have gotten some very good advise. You seem to be stuck in a pattern that keeps repeating. I am sure that is something we can all relate to because it is hard to escape.

My dd can be very mean to me and has said some pretty terrible things at times... .it is usually at these times she is hurting the most... .projecting her pain on to me. When she starts this is what I try to remind myself of so I don't get sucked into her meltdown and to help me not take what she says personally. That is pretty key to removing the emotional tension that these moments can bring. Try not to be dragged into battle with her. You can validate and let her know she was heard and maybe that is all she is looking for at these times. I really try to find the triggers... .there are always triggers... .try to look for the patterns and try to approach things a different way next time.

As far as the conflict with your two daughters I would try and stay neutral. I am not sure what was so upsetting for your dd... .is she living at home and did she find the invite for her sister to stay there an assult and hurtful to her? I am sure this repeats often. What could you have done differently? Is your dd feeling a lack of control? Is she trying to gain power?

I would never ignore a suicide threat... .I would take her to the ER or call police for help. Do not try and do this alone.

I would really encourage you to find a T and I hope your dd is seeing one too. If we keep repeating old habits nothing will change. You can only control what you do... .work on that and you will see improvements. I feel once you make those changes your dd will be more open to change as well. I know my dd appreciates the efforts I make and in turn it has helped her make changes too. It is small steps but you can go a long way with just a few.

[Kate4queen]

Oh yes,my son does the exact same thing to demean me.  We cannot take it personally, as it is part of the disorder.  PwBPD project on to us all the hatred they feel for themselves.  By telling us we are worthless, stupid, incompetent, and incapable of love, they feel better about themselves.  My son has even told me how I have Munchausen by Proxy.  I am mentally ill and trying to get attention and sympathy by PRETENDING he is SICK... .but fortunately, EVERYONE is able to see through my facade, and they all KNOW I AM THE CRAZY ONE, not him. There are times I wish I could laugh out loud at his accusations. Problem is, it is so incredibly sad that he really believes this, that it is not funny.

I have found the best way to handle these outbursts is to say nothing. Just listen. Above all, do not argue with a person who has BPD. It is futile. If forced into conversation, I just say something like "I am sorry you feel that way" and let it go.  

This mental illness is so bizarre. Interestingly, the message, right down to the actual wording, is so similar between different pwBPD, that it is scary. Like they are all using the same script. This is a cruel disorder, and IT is in control of our loved ones.

When it comes to threats of suicide, we need to be cautious. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to separate fact from fiction here.  When in doubt, call for help.  It is good to document these threats with law enforcement who can also provide transportation to an emergency room, if necessary.

Absolutely this is EXACTLY what my son would say to me.

[MammaMia]

Kate

I know ... it is so weird, isn't it?  I could not believe others wBPD were saying EXACTLY, word for word, what my son was saying to me until I found this site.

It is fascinating.

I wonder if any of our medical personnel have an explanation.  I would love to hear it.