Input on whether I should do this or not...

[Parents! Get help here!]

I understand it's my decision to make but you all are so helpful in your counsel and I am a deeper thinker, better responder, thanks to you.

As some of you know DD38 has moved across the country.  We had a pleasant goodbye but she is currently not talking to me because I turned down her request that I do something for her that I believed was clearly her responsibility to tend to.  She likes to use me as a secretary and more.  After 20 years I reached a place where I am truly detached. Not just working to be detached or acting detached but honest-to-goodness detached from the inside out. It's a wonderful feeling.

Here's my question:

Is it wrong to forward her mail without her permission?

She uses my PO Box for her mail and has for several years.  She gets lots of unpaid bills and collection agency stuff sent here with other items.  Typically, I will text her a photo of anything urgent that arrives so she can contact the entity if she desires.  :)H (her stepdad) said today, "Let's set up a forwarding and be done with all this task."  He says that it mainly bothers him that we're doing this because of how she treats me.  He said, "Would you do this favor for anyone else who hung up the phone on you or told you to shut up or gave you orders or put you down on a regular basis?"   No, of course not.  But here's the thing.  She does not want people to know where she lives.  And my forwarding the mail without her consent will ping some of the collectors, etc. of her new address.  I don't care if that happens but I do care that it happens because of me.  If she didn't need me to send her stuff, she wouldn't have given me her address either. And this means that when she moves again (plans to in a couple months) that for sure she will not give me her address if I have forwarded her mail because she will see it as a huge betrayal. Having her address is a tiny link that lets me know where she is in this world.   And I KNOW that if I ask her if she'd like me to forward the mail, she would say, "No!"  :)H says that my allowing the mail to come here is just another way that I enable her and it makes him say he doesn't trust me when I say we are done supporting her.  We  are  done. I am not going to allow her to move back in and I am not running any other errands or playing secretary for her OTHER than the occasional notification of something in her mail.  To me, it's not the same as being a codependent, etc.

I'd love to hear if you think I'm off on this or not.  I told DH that I'm going to be "thoughtful" about making this decision and not just do it and that ticked him off. He is really looking for reassurance. This I get. But I don't want to do something I shouldn't just to prove to him how committed I am to our independence.

Thanks.

[thefixermom]

I understand it's my decision to make but you all are so helpful in your counsel and I am a deeper thinker, better responder, thanks to you.

As some of you know DD38 has moved across the country.  We had a pleasant goodbye but she is currently not talking to me because I turned down her request that I do something for her that I believed was clearly her responsibility to tend to.  She likes to use me as a secretary and more.  After 20 years I reached a place where I am truly detached. Not just working to be detached or acting detached but honest-to-goodness detached from the inside out. It's a wonderful feeling.

Here's my question:

Is it wrong to forward her mail without her permission?

She uses my PO Box for her mail and has for several years.  She gets lots of unpaid bills and collection agency stuff sent here with other items.  Typically, I will text her a photo of anything urgent that arrives so she can contact the entity if she desires.  :)H (her stepdad) said today, "Let's set up a forwarding and be done with all this task."  He says that it mainly bothers him that we're doing this because of how she treats me.  He said, "Would you do this favor for anyone else who hung up the phone on you or told you to shut up or gave you orders or put you down on a regular basis?"   No, of course not.  But here's the thing.  She does not want people to know where she lives.  And my forwarding the mail without her consent will ping some of the collectors, etc. of her new address.  I don't care if that happens but I do care that it happens because of me.  If she didn't need me to send her stuff, she wouldn't have given me her address either. And this means that when she moves again (plans to in a couple months) that for sure she will not give me her address if I have forwarded her mail because she will see it as a huge betrayal. Having her address is a tiny link that lets me know where she is in this world.   And I KNOW that if I ask her if she'd like me to forward the mail, she would say, "No!"  :)H says that my allowing the mail to come here is just another way that I enable her and it makes him say he doesn't trust me when I say we are done supporting her.  We  are  done. I am not going to allow her to move back in and I am not running any other errands or playing secretary for her OTHER than the occasional notification of something in her mail.  To me, it's not the same as being a codependent, etc.

I'd love to hear if you think I'm off on this or not.  I told DH that I'm going to be "thoughtful" about making this decision and not just do it and that ticked him off. He is really looking for reassurance. This I get. But I don't want to do something I shouldn't just to prove to him how committed I am to our independence.

Thanks.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Turkish]

1. Forwarding her mail. There is nothing wrong with this in the big picture. I agree that by doing so is stepping back from perhaps enabling her. However... .

2. Not forwarding her mail. Is there any financial risk to you by not forwarding? If not, you can just toss her mail, though of course its triggering to you. Let the bill collecters find her. Not your issue...

By doing #1, you may be trying to fix something that she should fix herself. She will likely not, based upon past behaviors. The risk here is your frustration on expecting her to be someone who she is not.

[Sunfl0wer]

I think that it is great that you are being thoughtful! 

(Vs reactive to your H wants, or anyone else's for that matter, including your own.)

I personally have an issue about handling other's mail.

I remember as a teen telling my mom, "it is a federal offense" to open my mail without my permission.

I still would not open or redirect another's mail without their permission.  But I realize many other's likely do not have this hang up about it that I do.

What if you went to the PO and honestly explained that she no longer receives her mail at the box, can you please have her use removed?  Then let them ask the questions and guide you in their procedure?

You may not be allowed to sign a change of address for her. Idk

They may tell you that they will collect her mail for a month in case a forwarding address gets provided by her.

They may just "return to sender" it all. 

At least, it would be out of your hands, no?

[Turkish]

Writing, "return to sender, no longer at this address" and returning the mail is also an option.

[lbjnltx]

Writing, "return to sender, no longer at this address" and retirning the mail is also an option.

This is what I would do.  Also, in your mailbox tape a note that says "only leave mail for Mr. and Mrs. thefixermom"

[mimi99]

I would tell her that I do not want to receive her mail anymore and offer her the option of changing the address herself. That way it wouldn't seem as adversarial on your part, and leaves the decision in her hands as to how to handle the mail. "Here are your options--you can fill out a card to forward your mail, or you can contact each company to tell them where to send things. (and any other options you can think of) Let me know what you decide as I will tell the PO to stop delivering your mail here in 60 (or however many) days"

[Mom_on_Eggshells]

She's an adult.   She doesn't live in your home.  She's used your address (with your permission? for years)

Your DH has a point.  By screening her mail for your DD, she has never needed to consider what to do when she moves.  Give her 2 weeks to file her own change of address, then return it. 

Don't let mail come between you & Hubs. 

[pessim-optimist]

Writing, "return to sender, no longer at this address" and returning the mail is also an option.

This is a great option. She might need to know you did this, though, if you agreed in the past to get her mail, and if she expects you to still be upholding your end of the bargain... .

If I understand your situation: your dd has moved away, good bye was ok but then there was a problem regarding her bills over which she got upset and now you aren't talking?

If that's the case, I'd consider the timing of this: is it likely that she will see this (stopping the mail) as retaliation and will it also trigger her abandonment fears? If so, I'd look for a very nice and validating way to let her know, or I'd wait till another time.

In general, you have no obligation to help her with her mail.

[DisneyMom]

Just give her a 2 week notice. It might be a pain for you, but after 2 weeks, I would close your PO down and leaving a forwarding yourself and DH only. Her mail will be returned to sender. When you open up a new one, don't share it with her. She is an adult. You shouldn't take any more responsibility for her mail, other than giving her a courtesy notice.

[Elizabeth22]

Writing, "return to sender, no longer at this address" and retirning the mail is also an option.

This is what I would do.  Also, in your mailbox tape a note that says "only leave mail for Mr. and Mrs. thefixermom"

I third this. 

[MammaMia]

Fixermom

I agree that your adult daughter should be responsible for her mail and her bills.  Having said that, you should realize that by not having it forwarded, your daughter is not facing the reality of her financial situation.  It just goes away if she does not acknowledge it, right?

If you start returning her mail to sender, even though you know where she is, does this make you complicit in her attempt to avoid creditors?

If creditors have your address, they probably have, or can get, your phone number, so you may be receiving calls wanting to know where she is at some point in time.  What do you do then?

This is her problem and she needs to own it.  If she elects not to have her mail forwarded by the PO, I would bundle it and send it to her anyway.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[madmom]

I have spent the last couple of days with you on my mind, thinking about your situation.  A number of years ago, Jim Fay and his parenting with love and logic books and presentations were the hot thing in education and I was lucky enough to get to see/hear him speak and get some training.  One thing that he said that I have held onto and used successfully was to give two choices to the person that are acceptable to you.  So here is what I might text/say to my daughter---

Hey, it is great that you are living so successfully on your own. I truly hope all is going well for you. I need to tie up some loose ends from when you lived here, one of those is your mail.  Would you like me to forward your mail to your new address, or return it to the sender?  I know you might be busy and can't make a decision right now, so I will give you a week to decide which you want me to do.  If I don't hear from you in a week, I will just assume you want me to (pick whichever one you want to do--forward or return mail)  I love you and look forward to hearing from you soon. 

Now, if she says she doesn't want one of those two options, you can ask her for a suggestion of what she wants you to do and if it is something acceptable to you then you can do that---otherwise the response is, sorry that just won't work for me, please pick one of the two choices I gave you, or you will force me into choosing one of those for you.

I don't know if this will work for your daughter, and yes she is likely to get frustrated and angry that you are making her take responsibility for herself, but this is what I would do if it was me and my daughter.  We all have to make the decision we can live with, so disregard my advice if it won't work for you.  Enjoy your time, it seems like you and your husband are both healing and doing well with her absence.

[thefixermom]

Thanks all, for the thoughtful input!  :)D38 called again today and asked me to loan her some money to pay a ticket before the fine increases. I'd already declined to do this and told her she should pursue some other options and she hung up.  She called back twice but I didn't answer, no message left.  She's got her "you better do this or I'm not talking to you again" voice on.  Very punishing and stern sounding.  I'm so unmotivated by it.  Anyway, I read all the input here and have been giving your posts much consideration.  I'm struck by what pessim-optimist wrote... .that she would view my timing as retaliation and be triggered by her abandonment issues, which are very strong. She will also view it as a hateful move on my part.  I appreciated madmom's example of what could be said. MammaMia is right that she's not facing the reality of her financial situation. It's a scary burden that she has run up so many bills.  Others of you made good points, too, and have helped me see that if I do this, I need to have a conversation with her first rather than surprise her with it.

But my BIGGEST obstacle that keeps me from canceling her mail (by whatever means) is that it's the one link that keeps her in touch with me and when she moves in a couple months, if she is not having me send her mail now and then, she will have no reason to give me her new address and it gives me a sense that she will be lost from me forever (my own abandonment issues!).  She is in a major city that has a lot of turmoil and if I hear about something happening in the news I will always wonder if it is near her.  Of course, she may still not give me her new address anyway, despite my attempts to hang on like this.  Perhaps it's just the final string to be cut in my own quest for freedom.

[pessim-optimist]

But my BIGGEST obstacle that keeps me from canceling her mail (by whatever means) is that it's the one link that keeps her in touch with me

... .it gives me a sense that she will be lost from me forever (my own abandonment issues!).

... .Perhaps it's just the final string to be cut in my own quest for freedom.

Wanting to be free AND wanting to stay in touch are both very valid sentiments, thefixermom... . 

Perhaps there is a way to accomplish both in the future.

... .it makes him say he doesn't trust me when I say we are done supporting her.

I told DH that I'm going to be "thoughtful" about making this decision and not just do it and that ticked him off. He is really looking for reassurance. This I get. But I don't want to do something I shouldn't just to prove to him how committed I am to our independence.

From this, I get the idea that it's mostly your husband who is the driving force behind cutting this string that you are holding onto, and that your feeling of freedom is not impaired by receiving your dd's mail for the moment.

I do understand his sentiment as I am in his position (being the step-mother, DH being the dad). You both have been through a lot and he's been in the passenger seat of a very unpleasant ride. He'd like things to really change and this might be a 'proof' of a kind to him that things are really different now, and that you two will be on the same page.

I sense that you don't want this to be at your dd's expense and at the expense of your r/s with her, which is right-on.

It's not good to be reactive to our pwBPD, and it's not good to be reactive in general (not even to our spouses).

Given, your husband may not trust that things are changing if your family's track-record isn't good. It may take a while to build that trust... .